Kidd-Nash Overrated?

[grusom]

NLSC, meet the dsmballman, the melo15boy of...
2007

I called it first

Dude, dsmballman was a god. Nobody will ever compare to him.

i bet this thread is gonna be locked since the argument is really going nowhere..

I bet you'll get banned since your posts contribute nothing.

He is just trying to join the race for worst poster of 2007

[Sauru]

i think this guy already got it on lock

[grusom]

Nah - 3PK and zanshadow are trying their best to reach his level.

[TSquared]

NLSC, meet the dsmballman, the melo15boy of...
2007

I called it first

Dude, dsmballman was a god. Nobody will ever compare to him.

i bet this thread is gonna be locked since the argument is really going nowhere..

I bet you'll get banned since your posts contribute nothing.

He is just trying to join the race for worst poster of 2007

i bet you'll get banned 1st, coz ur posts seem to go whoop-a-dee-doo-da

sigh..now im only aiming for the 2nd worse poster of 2007 coz i cant beat u in the 1st..

[Sauru]

i actually enjoy your posts, even if everyone else hates them lol

[1CenT]

both seem overrated - cuz look at their teammates
vince & jefferson could take any team to the playoffs
amare, diaw, barbosa, marion, etc could take any team to the playoffs without doubt

look at the fact
nets trying to move kidd
nash trying desperately to prove something but obviously again didn't happen this year
besides they got a lot more touches than anybody on their team, so stats is where its supposed to be... especially with their super talented teammates.

i admit they both good but not championship good
mvp award should go to some1 with most talent & skiis not stats
and stats wise there were many more players with better

don't get me wrong but they both r overrated for sure

Vince and Jefferson can take anyone to the playoffs? If Kidd wasn't there they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Any player who averages a triple double if even only through two playoff series is amazing in my eyes.

Kidd is a leader, you bring anyone into New Jersey and he makes sure they do what they're told that thay play hard, run, defend etc. If anything Kidd is underrated because so many people can't see past the inconsistent shooting.

All some people see looking at Kidd is "This guy can't play offense he sucks jajajaja". When Nets need a bucket he will drive and get the hoop himself or make a pass where someone else will get the points. I'm sure your one of those people that think Kobe is the shit because he scores more than everyone else and that's all you see.

Funny how Phoenix went from a non-contender to a contender with the addition of Nash. This guy is clutch, unselfish and a great leader as well. He makes offense look like he's dribbling through and around pylons then makes the pass or finishes himself.

He's not a good man-to-man defender but he's one of the best when it comes to helping out and drawing offensive fouls.

I didn't even bring up the fact that Kidd is still an amazing man-to-man defender and is always near the top in steals. Never brought up that Nash is a two time MVP and is I believe the only player to shoot 50 from the field, 50 from three and 90 from the line.

I can't stand people that think the NBA is all about flashy dunks and averaging the most points. If you want to see that go watch AND 1 and stop making ridiculous comments.

this man knows his basketball

also agree how people might think Nash is overrated b/c of his MVP awards..

He would have a much more difficult time winning the MVP award if he swap teams with Kobe...

But i do think Nash would make the Lakers a little bit better than Kobe make the Lakers..

Kidd should have won 1 MVP... He works incredibly hard, hes a true leader...

Did you see Nash in the Spurs series? He is not just their best passer, their best scorer too... He controls the offense better than Kidd.... And what an amazing shoot... If he was on a crappier team.. I would see him as a 22 point, 10 assist guy easily...
or like 24/9...

[grusom]

NLSC, meet the dsmballman, the melo15boy of...
2007

I called it first

Dude, dsmballman was a god. Nobody will ever compare to him.

i bet this thread is gonna be locked since the argument is really going nowhere..

I bet you'll get banned since your posts contribute nothing.

He is just trying to join the race for worst poster of 2007

i bet you'll get banned 1st, coz ur posts seem to go whoop-a-dee-doo-da

sigh..now im only aiming for the 2nd worse poster of 2007 coz i cant beat u in the 1st..

You quote me, yet refer to cyanide's post? this confuses me. "Whoop-a-dee-doo-da".... what the fuck does that mean?

[Gundy]

i actually enjoy your posts, even if everyone else hates them lol

Same, it's quite sad really. His posts are so dumb, yet I look forward to them. Makes me feel smart.

[shadowgrin]

y dont u go try putting joe johnson amare marion on same line up in nba live 07? u'll get pretty good result outta simulation

zanshadow, I dub thee "retard".

[NovU]

u also could argue that dallas had a better seasons without nash
2005-06 60 wins 22 loses 2nd w/o nash
2004-05 58 wins 24 loses 2nd w/o nash
2003-04 52 wins 30 loses 3rd w/ nash

suns players were already on their way to peak prime
joe johnson started to find his game
amare & marion also
barbosa adjustin to nba lvl from brazil
nash... nice timing!
suns were destined to be a success whether with or without nash
it'd be a total lie if nash didn't contribute at all but ppl started underappreciating other suns players and made nash the hero... meaning... nash's current fame undeserving

oh yeah u prolly sayin nash's the one that made his teammates all star
but don't forget any of player on suns roster in 2004-2005 could have made a starter on most of teams in nba
even quentin richardson
& joe johnson is a living proof (posting career highs now)

i admit that 33 game improvement is a big deal
but 2003-2004 suns underachieved big time cuz of injuries & shit
not 2 mention ridiculous bench & roster
-antonio mcdyess just played 24 games not fully recovered frm injury
-amare 55 played
-weak supportin casts around core players(PG: soon 2 retire howard eisley & barbosa going thru rookie season, soon 2 be GONE plyers like Maciej Lampe, Donnell Harvey, Jahidi White... not to mention non factor plyer like Casey Jacobsen)
just COMPARE 2003 roster w 2004 roster. when considering healthy roster in 2004 & improvements of young great talented athletes, oh hell yeah they were destined to be the big thing. ...NASH lucker! right place @ right time...


& plz let me make tis clr for 1 fuxin last time
amare easily is one of TOP 5 big men in nba
versatile diaw can flirt w triple double # on any teams
barbosa great plr who was under shadow of quentin richar, joe johnson
shawn mari... enuf said
etc... etc... etc...
HELL YEAH always been great team and is already! even w/o nash easily playoff team
but spurs w/o duncan? prolly lottery team... mav w/o dirk? 40 win team at most
nash the saviour for the bad team? O V E R R A T E D

[Gundy]

my eyes and brain hurt

[el badman]

wow, that was pretty painful post indeed...

[---]

Please man, just watched a few Suns games. You will see how important Steve Nash is to that team. Individually, Nash isn't a top player in the league. The thing is, basketball is a team sport, and Nash is the reason Phoenix is such a great team.

Oh by the way, over the years since Nash joined the Suns from Dallas, the Suns are 4-12 when he doesn't play. So over three seasons Steve missed just 16 games. Of those 16 games the Suns won 4 of them... just let that sink in for a second.

What about Marion and Amare though? You seem to think they are gods and they are far more important to the Suns than Steve Nash is.

Since Nash joined the team in 04, the Suns record without Amare stands at...

64-43. Yes, the Suns actually have a winning record without Amare.

What about without Shawn Marion?

2-2. They have won just as many games without him as they have with him. He is also available for other teams to trade for right now, so he is by no means the centerpiece of this franchise.

Just read those numbers and then come back and tell me how Steve Nash is not the most important player on this Suns roster. The most valuable player on this Suns roster.

Oh and just for kicks, over the same time period (04/05 - 06/07) the Mavericks are 5-4 without Dirk, while the Spurs are also 5-4, without Tim Duncan. Just goes to show how valuable Nash is to this Suns team.

I hope you read this post and begin to understand what I'm trying to get it... it took a while to go through each players game logs and count up the wins/losses when they didn't play.

[Laxation]

I thought I would start posting, just by saying how dam excited I am to read this post by zanshadow. After reading other peoples responses, "my eyes and brain hurt" I'm actually giddy with excitement.


Oh man that didnt disappoint! Im tearing up...

plz let me make tis clr for 1 fuxin last time

I love you zans. Please post more.

[NovU]

shannon ur rite. just for that, ppl thought he deserved back 2 back mvps
but c'mon!!! back 2 back and almost 3 is just... seems way too generous

he ain't the MJ, or wilt cham of the league.

http://sports.urbanhumor.com/2005/05/sh ... l-mvp.html
not that i'm a fan of shaq

[Sauru]

shannon ur rite. just for that, ppl thought he deserved back 2 back mvps
but c'mon!!! back 2 back and almost 3 is just... seems way too generous

he ain't the MJ, or wilt cham of the league.

http://sports.urbanhumor.com/2005/05/sh ... l-mvp.html
not that i'm a fan of shaq

he sure aint mj and he sure aint wilt, then again, no one in the nba today is even close to either of those players so what the hell does that have to do with anything?

[NovU]

he sure aint mj and he sure aint wilt, then again, no one in the nba today is even close to either of those players so what the hell does that have to do with anything?

actually it does in historical ways. 3 in a row might have been something mj couldn't achieve and only wilt and a handful were able to achieve. ppl were and r gonna mention nash along wid those greats in years from now. 3 times in a row mvp sure would have put him in a position to be in a debate wid those greatests. and also no doubt that he would have prolly been remembered as the mvp who is least dominant and still got crowned 3 mvps in a row. thus, do i think he deserved 3 mvps in a row like u guys think? nope.

u'd be amazingly surprised at what most ppl including non-nba watching ppl say about nash. he that he this all positive stuffz. plus the media tends to be 2 soft on this nash. not that i don't admit he's one of the better players out there but getting all the credits that suns done and almost mvp 3 years in a row, no i don't support it. he getting too much spotlight for a player at his caliber.

first year, nash got mvp for making suns one of the better teams in west. second year, nash got it again cuz suns did good with one of their stars injured most of season. this year, he almost got it cuz suns did good and his stats improved. to me, it seems when it comes to mvp selection, it's been too much of about suns and nash. ok, he deserved it maybe 1 for sure but still makin it almost 3 yrs in a row sounds bit... urggg... and ppl still say that it should have happened.

one of u mentioned kidd should have gotten at least 1 mvp or so. but thruout his career, i don't think he was much better than payton(future HOF) who has never won mvp either. and i don't think nash's career is or gonna be much better than these two's. just his team did better. besides think of great players out there who nvr won mvp and still brought more impact to the game than nash. even 50 all time greatest players like olajuwon(1), karl malone(1), ewing(0) etc received way less spotlight when it came to mvp selection. so that's y i think today's back 2 back mvp(almost 3!!!) is overrated in a sense. mvp voting bias...

and if most valuable player to the best performing team has always won a mvp historically, jordan should have won 3 in a row too. it wasn the case tho. so frum my perspective nash's twice mvp awards were more than enuf and bit too generous, considering that he prolly is the least dominant & damaging back 2 back mvp in the history of mvps. u can see that as much as nash's valuable 2 suns, duncan was same to spurs. and both been mvps two yrs in a row, but duncan wid rrrringz. sure we talkin abut regular season mvp but playoff time tells u pretty much how valuable duncan is to the team. says rest about regular season as well and so on...

[WinDscArZ]

Lebron for example, not a great defensive player when he first entered the league, but now in the past season it was much improved, and now in the 2007 playoffs he's been playing excellent defense.

His defence has improved...but hes still not playing good defence.

vince & jefferson could take any team to the playoffs

Jefferson's more of a role player.....and vince is a choker in the playoff

amare, diaw, barbosa, marion, etc could take any team to the
playoffs without doubt

Maybe...but they will most probably be swept in the first round.

joe johnson is a living proof (posting career highs now)

Thats becuz he is the 1st scoring option and the best player on the team(maybe not for long...i read that josh smith is doing big man drills with hakeem olajuwon and perimeter stuff with calvin murphy)

i don't think kidd was much better than payton

They are both great defenders....(payton in his prime i mean).....but jason kidd has better court vision

Personally, i think that between kidd n nash, kidd has better court vision but nash is more creative with the ball.

P.S. I know that i have offended many ppls with wad i write.....but thats wad i think

[Sauru]

the "word" wad offends me

[cyanide]

What is 'wad'? Like some sort of soft cotton used for stuffing?

[shadowgrin]

The money shot in a porn film?

[Jackal]

It is quite amusing Nash has 2 MVP awards and Shaq only has 1.

[Sauru]

winning mvp is really subjective to the era you play in. as far as shaq, i dont think he really ever deserves a mvp, atleast not a regular season one. he always coasted the regular season and played in the playoffs. dominance and being a mvp are two different things in my opinion. i guess in its most basic sense they are 1 in the same but not imo