Huge Brawl at the Garden

The NBA is an entirely different league, and everybody knows how Stern is strict when it comes to looking professional and maintaining a strong reputation.

I see your point. Shame they don't apply it to instances similar to Gangster Nate's one.

Yeah it wasnt a sucker punch, it just looked worse because Collins didnt protect himself which i dont understand why.

Collins wasn't exactly given a lot of time to react , Melo, had just turned the corner on the crowd of players that was to Collins' right. Right when Melo turned appeared, he immediately swung. By the time Mardy saw him, he was already in the start of the action of punching Collins.

Haha, trying to sugarcoat the punch. We see right through your bias.

Who was that aimed at, me or CMJ? If it's me, I'm not sugarcoating the punch. I'm wondering how the heck is CMJ expecting Collins to actually have time to react to even protect himself. I'm going against his non-valid point that he brought up when trying to defend Melo.

No, you are so incredibly wrong, its unbelievable. I can't even believe someone would think that way. First of all, security before games is not tight. They have you spread your jacket, and maybe they feel one pocket. Usually they don't even touch you, or even use the metal detectors that are in their hands. A fan could very easily be carrying a weapon, and after all that had happened already, you have to take that fan out. You can't let him continue to roam around the floor, are you fucking stupid? True, it would be better to let the security handle it, but they were nowhere to be found. That guy had to get taken down, and Jermaine noticed him. I guarantee that 99% of the world would act the same way in that situation. How could you see a fan jump on to the court during a very ugly brawl where fans proved to be out to hurt the players and not do anything to him.

Have you ever been to the Palace? There's quite a bit of security, my friend.. and yes, there are metal detectors, and yes, they do search EVERY SINGLE bag/purse, etc. There's no possible way somebody is getting in there with a gun/knife/etc. Get off your boy JON's nuts, man. You know damn well that the short little fan on the court was no threat to anybody on the court (other than himself ) and O'Neal had no right throwing a punch at him. Please just watch the video one more time, you'll see that there is no possible way to legitimize Jermaine's punch on him. Thanks for calling me 'fucking stupid' by the way - really shows your character. I'm not even gonna bother responding to you anymore, but come on, get it through your head - Carmelo didn't do half the damage Jermaine did. 15 games = legit punishment. No double standards here, not even close.

Amazing that people actually argue that a player can be more dangerous then a fan. That's unbelievable to me.

Amazing that someone can honestly defend a professional athlete for punching the shit out of a fan. That's unbelievable to me.

Oh, and go ahead and make a poll - I guarantee you the results are overwhelmingly in favor of the athletes being more dangerous than a puny fan. You're the only one with that sentiment.

First of all I never said anything about a double standard. Second of all, this isn't about Jermaine O'Neal, what a cop out to try and say that. I think Stephen Jackson should have gotten an even bigger punishment then he did. It's easy for you to dispute what I'm saying by saying its a Pacers issue, it isn't. Third of all, don't lie about the Palace, yes I have been there numerous times and I don't know what gate you go in, but I easily could have walked in there with a gun in my pants and a knife in my pocket.

If you truly think a co-worker is more dangerous then an intruder, then you definitley are fucking stupid. Get off your boy the fat Pistons fan's nuts.

But it's not in terms of co-worker and intruder. It's a case of a professional basketball player and a fan that's not a professional basketball player. I find it harder to assume that this fan has a weapon than to assume this fan does not have a weapon.

No Indy, you obviously haven't been to the Palace. Seriously, my apartment is less than 2 and a half miles away from there and I have been to TONS of Pistons games and various other events at the Palace of Auburn Hills. How on EARTH are you going to tell me you know the security better than I do, lol. Besides, every fan enters through the same "gate" (I wouldn't even call it a gate), so it sounds like you don't quite know what you're talking about.

Also, I wasn't addressing you specifically when I said "no double standard here" - just the rest of the people who mentioned that they thought Stern was indeed holding a double standard. I'm not trying to make it a "cop out" and make it out to be about Jermaine O'Neal either - I just noticed that earlier in the thread you had complained that there's no way in hell Carmelo should get a smaller punishment than him, which I absolutely disagreed with.

Cyanide is correct. Your analogy about a co-worker / intruder is so far off in this situation - it's not even close! You can't compare people at an office job to professional athletes, sorry!

(p.s. I know I said I wouldn't respond anymore, but I can't help it - when you continue to tell me that I'm fucking stupid I can't help but write back - I just find it kind of comical that nobody has agreed with your idea of who's more dangerous - yet I'm the fucking stupid one )

Actually, I'd have to agree with Indy here...
I never went to the Palace, but I went to a few games at the Staples, and each time I could have brought a jar of anthrax, a handgun and a kilo of heroine, nobody would have ever known (which really surprised me).
To me, it does make sense that fans are potentially more dangerous than players. For all we know, that fat ass at the Palace (or the other dude that Artest started punching) might have carried a knife or something...
You both have good points though, let's not blow this out of proportion.

To me, it does make sense that fans are potentially more dangerous than players. For all we know, that fat ass at the Palace (or the other dude that Artest started punching) might have carried a knife or something...

That's the keyword, potentially more dangerous than players. My problem with the reasoning is the assumption that the fan is armed. If a fan is armed, then there's problem with security, and further, I'd be concerned about security. If security is in place, then I would have less to worry about whether fans are armed or not. Like I said before, I find it easier to assume that a fan is unarmed than to assume an armed fan in an arena where security is enforced.

Knowing that the security sucks in a place like Los Angeles is freaky, but luckily it's not so common that knife or gunfights take place at basketball games.

Apparently Melo's 15 Games wasn't just for the punch/slap, it was also for running in an throwing some player straight into the ground

That's the keyword, potentially more dangerous than players. My problem with the reasoning is the assumption that the fan is armed. If a fan is armed, then there's problem with security, and further, I'd be concerned about security. If security is in place, then I would have less to worry about whether fans are armed or not. Like I said before, I find it easier to assume that a fan is unarmed than to assume an armed fan in an arena where security is enforced.

I agree, I thought that the question behind this "debate" is who's potentially more dangerous, a random fan or a random player, and to that, i think it's obvious that the former is.
But yeah, I don't assume either that fans are armed or anything...Just saying that if it had to happen, a player is not likely to hide anything in his shorts or under his armpits...

Besides, every fan enters through the same "gate" (I wouldn't even call it a gate), so it sounds like you don't quite know what you're talking about.

That's why I said I don't know what gate you're going in through. I'm sure you've been to more Pistons games then I have, but I've been to 4 or 5 Pistons Pacers games in the last 6 or 7 years at the Palace, and I've never had any harsh security there before.

Co-worker doesn't only apply to office job, what are you talking about? Co-worker means someone you work with, and that's exactly what a fellow NBA player is. Sure, you may have a scuffle and get in to a fight, but if you try and walk away, you know that player isn't going to put his career on the line by doing something ridiculous. You have no idea what that fan is going to do, you have no idea what he has on him. Obviously you can't assume that he has a weapon, but you can't assume that he doesn't either. What is Jermaine supposed to do in that situation? See this fan go on to the floor and just figure he's only there to get a closer view of things? Obviously not, especially when the fans were attacking the players only seconds ago.

Oh, and in Chicago, they literally wave you through like you're in the Madrid airport. No security whatsoever. You could be holding a gun under your jacket, and you'd easily get through. Conseco is much more strict actually, but its still easy to conceal things.

Knowing that the security sucks in a place like Los Angeles is freaky, but luckily it's not so common that knife or gunfights take place at basketball games.

True, it doesn't happen often, but what happened on 11/19/04 doesn't happen often either, and Jermaine had to air on the side of caution.

They don't have metal detectors at all sports arenas? I'm kind of shocked about that - as I don't think I've ever been to a sports event without passing through a metal detector.

i know i always had to pass through one to enter

They don't have metal detectors at all sports arenas? I'm kind of shocked about that - as I don't think I've ever been to a sports event without passing through a metal detector.

They all have this in their hand But I've hardly ever seen them use it.

What about standing metal detectors rather than security with the handheld ones? Virtually every major retail store has those, so it's pretty nuts to know that sport arenas don't have them.

What about standing metal detectors rather than security with the handheld ones? Virtually every major retail store has those, so it's pretty nuts to know that sport arenas don't have them.

It would be too complicated. Obviously everybody would set it off, and it would take forever to get everybody through. In order for that to work you'd have to do the same thing they do in airports where you put all of your metal in to a little container. It would take a very long time. Imagine having to take off your shoes and belt before going in to an NBA game. Just couldn't happen.

Plus, the ones they have in retail stores aren't metal detectors, they are sensors specifically for their merchandise.

They don't have metal detectors at all sports arenas? I'm kind of shocked about that - as I don't think I've ever been to a sports event without passing through a metal detector.

They all have this in their hand But I've hardly ever seen them use it.

yeh- at the United Center it seems they do it randomn. it's pretty damn easy to sneak liquor (amongst other things) into games

Plus, the ones they have in retail stores aren't metal detectors, they are sensors specifically for their merchandise.

I realized this too late. How stupid of me.

yeh- at the United Center it seems they do it randomn. it's pretty damn easy to sneak liquor (amongst other things) into games

True, and they do it really scarcely. You know how you have to go out gate 7 now to have a cigarette? When you come back in, its like your first arriving, and at halftime, they never check anybody at all. You could literally come in at halftime with your jacket shut and a freakin sniper rifle in your pants and you'd be fine.

Yeah it wasnt a sucker punch, it just looked worse because Collins didnt protect himself which i dont understand why.

Collins wasn't exactly given a lot of time to react , Melo, had just turned the corner on the crowd of players that was to Collins' right. Right when Melo turned appeared, he immediately swung. By the time Mardy saw him, he was already in the start of the action of punching Collins.

Haha, trying to sugarcoat the punch. We see right through your bias.

Who was that aimed at, me or CMJ? If it's me, I'm not sugarcoating the punch. I'm wondering how the heck is CMJ expecting Collins to actually have time to react to even protect himself. I'm going against his non-valid point that he brought up when trying to defend Melo.

Yeah, I was talking about the other guy.