Axel wrote:I agree cy... Nash has made his entire team better.
How many of us really expected people like Boris Diaw and Raja Bell to have such great seasons? Nash commands so much attention by the defense because he is a great 3pt thread and can weave through a slew of players. That gets everyone else on his team wide open shots.
Besides, you couldn't dislike anyone who has patented "the circle play"
One thing people seem to keep hinting but is not true is that Nash someone makes some guys good offensive players. A good PG can increase your offensive efficiency, and get you easier shots, but they don't make players become good on offense.
Bell this season:
13.2 PPG | 3.4 RPG | 2.5 APG | 43.5% FG | 41.1% 3PT | 38.2 MPGLast season:
12.3 PPG | 3.2 RPG | 1.4 APG | 45.4% FG | 40.3% 3PT | 28.4 MPGHe's scoring 0.9 more PPG in 10 more MPG, while shooting a lower FG% and slightly higher 3PT%. This is in comparison to playing on a Utah team last season that didn't have 2 of it's best players for a lot of the year, and no real PG. His assists are higher because this team takes a lot more shots than Utah did, have a offense where you're not to hesitate to shoot, so everytime you swing the ball, their's a good chance of you getting an assist. He is not doing anything special, his scoring increase is actually dissapointing for an increase of 10 MPG, his rebounding too.
Diaw is the farthest thing from a product of Nash's playmaking. He's a product of the system, but also of the skills he already had in Atlanta that weren't being put to proper use because of coaching, and also the different system. Diaw is assisted on 56% of his makes, a decent amount, but not showing he has dependence on being set up. He has as much versatility as anyone in the league, and can do many things with the ball in his hands. His greatest assets to the team are not scoring, but playmaking/passing, rebounding, and defense which have nothing to do with Nash. He is also leading the team in +- because of his ability to impact every area of the game for them, scoring, rebounding, passing, on and off the ball defense, and even shot blocking.
I can kinda see what Matt is saying. It reminds me a little of Mike Bibby. In Sacramento his highest APG has been 6. something because of their Princeton offense that runs primarily through the big men. Before he came to Sac, he was putting up the same APG numbers as Nash in Dallas, and Marbury constatly has. He has a little point in that while Nash's skills is part of what makes Phoenix good, the system is what caused Nash's sudden "improvement" in his pasing game. Now, only guys like Nash, Kidd, Baron, Knight, Miller, Bibby, Marbury, [the Top passing PG's] could average the same amount of assists in the system, and only probably Kidd, Baron, and Bibby could win a similar amount, Kidd being at the Top at that. Maybe Andre too, he's one of the best at throwing an alley, can drive and dish as well as the others, and has done well in Denver. Every capable PG [not the crappy ones that would just get turnovers] in the league would recieve an increase in APG in a system that has the ball in their hands and surrounds them with finishers and good-very good shooters, not all can win though because they have to at least be good players also.
Phoenix runs almost nothing off wing or post isolations, about everything starts from a hand off or pick and roll, and the majority of shots are a catch and shoot from drive and kick, hand off and shoot, one pass and shoot, pick and pop, or pick and roll. Not many coaches encourage taking the first shot available, Phoenix encourages that if you're open, no matter who, you shoot, while also encouraging ball movement because they're an unselfish team. In a different coaching system, the team will look to establish a post game, and also will look to do more iso's, which does not benefit the PG in terms of assists. If JVG was coaching, it's hard enough to average 7-8 APG because of how the team would play.
If you pass to a guy and he shoots right away, even if he only shoots 40%, you pass to him 5 times a game, and you'll get 2 APG from him alone. If you pass to him, and he does a little creating and then shoots 4 times, and only 1 of the 5 times shoots right away, also making 40% of the shots when you pass to him, he's only getting you 0.4 APG.
That's the main difference between a Phoenix offensive system, and most other teams offensive systems. The Warriors are sort off doing a similar thing in that they like to shoot a lot from the outisde, but they don't have nearly as good an offensive system, they don't take three's off movement as much, they just take three's. Their overall shooting isn't on par with Phoenix, they have Fisher, Phoenix has Nash, Bell, House, Jones, Barbosa, and even Marion and Jackson who are shooting bad from outside are normally good. They also don't have the same finishing inside that the Suns had with Amare/Marion last year, and Marion even more this year. J-Rich can dunk, but that's not the same thing.
Marion also seems to be underappreciated on that team. He's basically the only guy in the league that can constantly get a defensive rebound, outlet the ball, then beat everyone else down the court and score in like 5 seconds. In half court sets, he's constantly moving and cutting to the basket because he's the energizer bunny and doesn't get tired, and opens up passing lanes and angles for his teammates [mostly Nash and Diaw, somerimes Bell or House] to get the ball to him for easy scores. He's also capable of finishing just about anything inside, sets up their fast paced offense by cleaning the glass, and gives then an interior defensive presence with his 1.94 BPG.
1) Kidd
2) Nash
3) Billups
4) Baron
5) Dre' Miller/Parker
The reason I will put Kidd ahead is that like already said he's MUCH better defensively, even while not being at Top form. Also I'm not seeing Nash doing anything Kidd can't. Kidd averaged 10.9 APG on a team with much less offensive talent, scoring fewer PPG, and right now, his playmaking has not declined, he's still able to do that. Scoring and shooting, Nash wins, no question.
top 5 pgs right now:
1. nash
2. iverson/wade (if they're considered pgs)
3. chauncy
4. baron
5. kidd
Wade has been a SG for a while now, J-Will plays PG on the Heat. He only plays as the PG for some stretchs of the game or when J-Will was injured he played a little more even though Payton was there.
