Where would the Raptors be without their injuries?

[TheBob]

The Raptors are playing much better ball of late and Vinny seems to be finding his groove again. If the Raps had been relatively healthy for the entire season where do you think they would have finished?

[Scary Hedo]

top 4 seed but i accidently pressed bottom of the standings in the poll

[TheBob]

I'm glad you posted that because I was shocked when I saw a vote for the bottom.

[Andrew]

I voted 5-8 seed. They definitely would have made the playoffs.

On a related note, what's the deal with Lamond Murray? Is he actually going to return this season? He was originally going to be out 6-8 weeks, or so I read.

[TheBob]

I voted 5-8 seed. They definitely would have made the playoffs.

On a related note, what's the deal with Lamond Murray? Is he actually going to return this season? He was originally going to be out 6-8 weeks, or so I read.

There were some complications with his injury and he was required to sit out longer than expected. I've also heard that both Grunwald and Wilkins have told him to just use practice to familiarize himself with his teamates for next year. I keep on hearing that they want him to be ready for next year. To me this indicates that the Raps have basically thrown in the towel seen as Lamond Murray is a real scoring option with Toronto could no doubt use.

[Rens]

5-8 seed, they wouldn't be on the level of Indiana, New Jersey, Detroit yet, but just below that.. and probably a team or two would get in between the Raptors and those three.

[Matthew]

You could make an argument for the Raptors possibly being a top 2 or 3 seed in the East if they were healthy. But alot of fans could complain about their team being struck by injuries or even lack of motivation.

[TheBob]

But alot of fans could complain about their team being struck by injuries

Yes but none of them could make a claim to have been most affected by them. The Raps only have one player who's played in every game and that's Mo Pete. Furthermore, their top two players have missed an enormous amount of games. I could go on for ages but I'm sure most of you don't need convincing.

[Rens]

But alot of fans could complain about their team being struck by injuries

Yes but none of them could make a claim to have been most affected by them. The Raps only have one player who's played in every game and that's Mo Pete. Furthermore, their top two players have missed an enormous amount of games. I could go on for ages but I'm sure most of you don't need convincing.

Maybe explanation would've been a better word here, just to make it clear. The Raptors haven't had a game where they suited up 12 players. Their top 3 players have not only been injured, also when they were actually playing they were playing through injuries. Their key bench players have had injuries or had to play through that.
There's no need to turn this into another one of those threads where they need to be compared to other teams (eg. where would the Kings be if they'd had comparable injuries) cause you know that'll turn into a flame.

It's just obvious the Raptors have taken a big hit during this season. I hope next season Wilkins will be gone so we can actually play our young players instead of old ones. Wilkins is just playing for himself now. Voshon Lenard should've been released ages ago in favor of Chris Jefferies. I'm glad Bradley finally gets minutes, he's showing he can be a dangerous rebounder, and his offense isn't shabby either.

[TheBob]

Thanks Dan. I've also noticed that Bradley has been playing much better despite what the idiot commentators say. I guess it just shows you how much minutes can boost a player's confidence. On a side note, does anyone know how many more loses before Wilkins becomes the league's most losingest coach of all time?

[Colin]

Thank the lord skip came when he did.

[scubilete]

On a side note, does anyone know how many more loses before Wilkins becomes the league's most losingest coach of all time?

, Well, I don't know what's the current number of loses he got but if this info was at the starting of the season, possibly this year he becomes the losingest coach of all time.

Bill Fitch (1106)
Lenny Wilkens (1056)

[Scary Hedo]

but he is also the coach with the most wins of all time

[TheBob]

but he is also the coach with the most wins of all time

So? All these stats mean is that he can coach at a .500 level for a rediculous amount of years.

[Rens]

Thank the lord skip came when he did.

Alston isn't the saviour. He came in and helped the Raptors, yes, but only to a certain extent. The team got healthy, that's the main reason things turned around. Skip started with a few very good games, but since then his play has been down a bit, probably because of the return of Lindsey Hunter.

To keep this discussion about the Raptors and not turn it into some Koala-fest, what do you think the Raptors need to do this offseason?

Here's my short list (which probably misses important points):
Fire Lenny. Not a lot of explanation needed, he just can't handle the team anymore. Despite the calls for JVG, I'd rather have a starting coach with this team.

Trade Antonio Davis. Especially if his play keeps up until the end of the season. This might be the last chance to get rid of him before he really gets too old.

Dump Voshon. I'd rather had this done during this season but it doesn't seem likely anymore. Have him go to a contender or something, he'll be happy he got the chance with us, but I think he'll demand too much money, and he's hurting our young-un's development (especially if we draft someone in the backcourt, TJ Ford anyone?)

Think well before the draft. Depending on the draft-position, trading down, or up might be better than staying put. We need either one of the top 3 players, a distributer, or a big man to develop. That's a wide range, but it's necessary to have a good plan. I wouldn't mind to to trade down for a guy like Kedrick Perkins if we end up in the mid-lottery. Or trade up for TJ Ford if we end up around 6-8 either.

And last...

Depending on the ruling on retired players, find a taker for Hakeem. If his contract will end not this summer but next, we HAVE to trade him so we can bring in someone for the MLE. If it ends this summer, no need for that and just sign someone for the MLE.

Well that's what I could think of for now...

[Wall St. Peon]

I don't know what the Raptors cap looks like, but I do know they have a lot of 1 year contracts on their hands that are done at the end of the season...would the Raptors be able to make a run at Kidd or Payton? It's a thought...Carter would love having another superstar to differ to, and Kidd loves playing with guys above the rim (Jefferson, Marion), so he'd fit well with Carter...cept, if he leave NJ, he'll head to SA most likely...so maybe Payton? Just wishful thinking, probably...

As for you points, yes, AD needs to go. Wilkins needs to go, and Voshon needs to go. TJ Ford is a good distributing pg with good hands, but he's small...only 5'10...so I don't know how he'd fair in a league of 6'1 point guards who are far stronger than him. I mean, Jay Williams was supposed to be completely prepared for the NBA, and look how he's done...of course, he's a great point guard in the triangle, and that doesn't work out...which brings me to my next point...

Antonio Davis needs to go, and the Bulls want to get rid of players who are unhappy and who they don't care for. Davis and Lenard take up about 13 mil in cap space, so the Bulls would have to cough up a few players just to make that; however, they have Eddie Robinson who's almost making 6 mi and is playing off the bench...not living up to expectations at all...and then Fizer, who's been in the doghouse for God knows how long, is making just under 3 mil...that's 9 so far...and finally, Jay Williams is playing in an offense that doesn't utilize the playmaking abiliities of a point guard, and he's unhappy. He's making 3.5 million. Now, are those three players worth aging Antonio Davis and Voshon Lenard? Perhaps...I'm sure the Raptors could throw one of their almost 10 players who are making the minimum or barely more in to sweeten the deal...

The trade would make the Raptors a bit younger and give them a playmaking point guard; the Bulls would get a relatively consistant post player who can help out Jalen Rose - they DID play together - and Donyell Marshall, and he could also help to tutor Curry and Chandler. If need be, the Raptors could trade a second round pick to make the deal better...

As for Hakeem, couldn't the Raptors owners just buy out his contract? It'd save them a ton of cap room.

I dunno, I'm just being random...I'd love to see Williams in a Toronto uniform.

[mp3]

"TheBob"

The Raps only have one player who's played in every game and that's Mo Pete.

you do know you're just cursed him!!

[Rens]

I don't know what the Raptors cap looks like, but I do know they have a lot of 1 year contracts on their hands that are done at the end of the season...would the Raptors be able to make a run at Kidd or Payton? It's a thought...Carter would love having another superstar to differ to, and Kidd loves playing with guys above the rim (Jefferson, Marion), so he'd fit well with Carter...cept, if he leave NJ, he'll head to SA most likely...so maybe Payton? Just wishful thinking, probably...

No, the Raptors are too far over the cap to come close, even if Hakeem's deal would end this summer instead of next (depending on new ruling about retired players). The only way we could sign free agents is using our exceptions, the Mid Level, and the Veteran Minimum. I don't think either Payton or Kidd would play for that. I'm thinking we might have a small (tiny) chance at Andre Miller, who's hurt his value a lot this season, but will likely still get more than the MLE this summer. (I had the idea of JYD and Montross for Andre Miller in a sign and trade, but I'm not too sure about it, it was just a thought that passed my mind. It's a gamble trading a player that's been great with us in JYD for Andre Miller who could just remain a bust, but moving Alvin to SG, Vince to SF and adding a passing PG could be key.)

As for you points, yes, AD needs to go. Wilkins needs to go, and Voshon needs to go. TJ Ford is a good distributing pg with good hands, but he's small...only 5'10...so I don't know how he'd fair in a league of 6'1 point guards who are far stronger than him. I mean, Jay Williams was supposed to be completely prepared for the NBA, and look how he's done...of course, he's a great point guard in the triangle, and that doesn't work out...

Isn't Jay Williams more of a scorer? I don't know, haven't seen him play but that's what I read about him. And well I don't think the triangle is a great system to step in as a rookie.

Antonio Davis needs to go, and the Bulls want to get rid of players who are unhappy and who they don't care for. Davis and Lenard take up about 13 mil in cap space, so the Bulls would have to cough up a few players just to make that; however, they have Eddie Robinson who's almost making 6 mi and is playing off the bench...not living up to expectations at all...and then Fizer, who's been in the doghouse for God knows how long, is making just under 3 mil...that's 9 so far...and finally, Jay Williams is playing in an offense that doesn't utilize the playmaking abiliities of a point guard, and he's unhappy. He's making 3.5 million. Now, are those three players worth aging Antonio Davis and Voshon Lenard? Perhaps...I'm sure the Raptors could throw one of their almost 10 players who are making the minimum or barely more in to sweeten the deal...

From the Raptors standpoint that would be great. Robinson, though overpaid, is very athletic, and can score well. Jay Williams I'd like to get him but would the Bulls give up on him so quickly, for an overpaid AD?
If this trade would ever take place (not a lot of chance ofcourse, but who knows) or at least if the Raptors would ever attain Fizer, we'd need another coach. We used to have a quite similar player in Williamson who sucked under Lenny and turned into a 6th man of the year when he got traded.

As for Hakeem, couldn't the Raptors owners just buy out his contract? It'd save them a ton of cap room.

Buying out would count against the cap I think, and his contract will probably end this summer anyway. If not, his ending 6 million deal could appise to teams looking for cap space.

[TheBob]

Buying out would count against the cap I think, and his contract will probably end this summer anyway. If not, his ending 6 million deal could appise to teams looking for cap space.

I believe they actually did try and buy him out but he has refused to work with Raps concerning a buyout.

[MC Snowy]

On a side note, does anyone know how many more loses before Wilkins becomes the league's most losingest coach of all time?

He has 12 more losses to go

[TheBob]

Maybe Grunwald will be nice and fire him right before he gets it.

[scubilete]

Nah, the same way he got to that winning mark, they should let him brake the negative one, now you got me excited to see him doing it. , those are legends of the game. At least you might not remember Bill Fitch, but we will remember Lenny Wilkens.