Wade's Success

Well we know how much Wade has flourished with the Diesel now with him, but will this end up like that other guy that had Shaq on his team? Will people turn around in a couple of years and say that Wade was just successful because he had Shaq on his team? If Shaq wasnt there would Wade would have around the same stats as last year? I got to wondering this the other day, but I think Kobe's image helped him into that hole.

Anyway, with everyone worried about Shaq, Wade is less worried about and gets more chances to go 1-on-1 and score, much like Kobe.

Wade's stats from this year so far:
+7.8 ppg
+1.5 rpg
+3.1 apg
+.26 spg
+4.1 mpg

Kobe's Stats in his 3rd year(when he got to start)
+4.5 ppg
+2.2 rpg
+1.3 apg
+.5 spg
+ 11.9 mpg

I dont know if its a fair comparison because that Dwyane played 2 more minutes per game than Kobe, and Kobe had Shaq on his team 2 years earlier.

What do you guys think?

Shaq Wasnt Here.

Take away the Assists. Add more minutes to the game. Take away some of the points, add Barely some rebounds.

take away the assists due to lack of Ceneter
Take Away Points due to he would of got blocked by the guy gaurding shaq.
Add Minutes since they wouldnt have another scorer out on the floor
Add some rebounds since hed probally do some more since he wouldnt have Shaq and Primary Rebounder.

Deleted.

Last edited by Osirus on Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

But if we add minutes he probably would score a couple points and make an assist or two

Shaq's presence definitely has had some impact on Wade's season. Players like Shaq create opportunities for their teammates due to the attention they draw defensively, and he provides Wade with a teammate who's capable of helping him rack up assists. But Wade still had a great game against the Celtics and Shaq wasn't playing heavy minutes early in the year. The team might not be doing so well without Shaq, but I think Wade would still be posting impressive numbers regardless.

The team might not be doing so well without Shaq, but I think Wade would still be posting impressive numbers regardless.

give them back the players they traded for shaq if shaq isn't playing, its obvious they not as good without shaq, but they close to as good with the players they traded for shaq ( remember they had a slow start last year since wade was adjusting to the nba)

That's what I meant. Without Shaq but with Odom, Butler and Grant, I'd say Wade would still be having a great year but the Heat wouldn't be quite as good.

To the end of last season, they played very well, even got out the first round of the playoffs. I think they would probably continue to play well this year, maybe add 4more loses to their record, but they would still be a good team in the EAST since the east is so weak. The difference between the 2nd to 7th seed in the east is only 2 games in the lost column compare to 5 out west.

Without Shaq, Wade would still have about the same numbers, the main difference would be the Heat's record. The Heat would still be a Top 3-4 team in the East though, considering they were what, the 4th seed last season with the slow start, and Caron Butlers injuries.

Wade got an increase in minutes this season, last season he was shooting 46% from the field, and also shared playmaking duties with Odom and Rafer. He's definately improved a lot of his game, but look at the comparison per minute:

18.1 points, 4.5 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 1.58 steals, 0.63 blocks, 3.59 turnovers

to

24.0 points, 5.5 rebounds, 7.6 assists, 1.67 steals, 1.07 blocks, 3.90 turnovers

Per minutes he's: +5.9 points, +1 rebound, +2.6 assists, +0.09 steals, +0.44 blocks, and +0.31 turnovers

Now considering last season he was injured, and when he can back he was less inclined to block, and it also affected his scoring a little. He's also improved his mid-range jumpshot, improved his defense overall, and is getting 2 more shots a game, and going to the line almost twice as much as last season, you see the improvements.

The acquisition of Shaq made the Heat go after shooters, shooters spread the floor, Wade is a slasher, so those shooters help Wade as much or even more than they would Shaq. Also in the drive and dish game, he can dish the ball to the shooters and get assists. In addition to that, Wade alone can dish to ball to Shaq at least 1-1.5 times on average per game for a basket, so he basically get's an assist a game off Shaq.

Some people seem to think you'd get like 3 assists a game off Shaq as a playmaker, but you have to consider; 1) Shaq is a higher percentage scorer, so won't take that many shots, he makes 8.3 per game, get's assisted on 54% which is 4.5 assists to the whole team per game from him, one player won't get 75% of that; 2) Shaq many times catches, waits for the double, looks for cutters and open shooters, and then makes his move; 3) Shaq get's fouled a lot

Another thing is that when Shaq is off the floor, Wade's offense actually improves, seems odd, but when Shaq is off, the Heat run more, Wade thrives in the running game, therefore is more efficient offensively with Shaq on the bench. Also he's able to run the pick and pop with Doleac and Laettner who will constantly hit that 17-20 foot jumper.


If the Heat were to have Odom, Butler and Grant, Wade's numbers would be more like this in the same minutes:

21 points, 5.5 rebounds, 6.1 assists, 1.7 steals, 1.0 blocks, 3.7 turnovers, 51% FG

He would have a decrease in shots, and assists due to their being more scorers, and Odom having some playmaking duties, and his FG% would stay about the same and could increase due to more fastbreak baskets.

Well, Wade has already proven last year he can do it without Shaq, and ofcourse Shaq has boosted Wade's #'s. It's rediculous to suggest otherwise. The question is, is Wade just as good without Shaq? Like Kobe, I think so. And like Kobe, I doubt he ever wins a championship by himself. Although a Wade-Kobe Finals would be something to watch. I think Kobe has a better chance of winning a ring minus Shaq because he plays for the Lakers.

Personally, I think it's about even. Without Shaq, I think the Lakers will stumble in the second round (not without putting up a good fight though) as the West is a strong conference and teams like the Spurs and Timberwolves have superior frontcourts. Likewise, without the Diesel I'd say the Heat would also bow out in the second round (again, not without a fight) while the conference finals looks like a realistic goal for Miami this season.

Actually Andrew, I'd have to disagree about the T'Wolves. I do think the Spurs would beat the Lakers(Probably in 5 games) but the Wolves don't impress me. The teams I think would definantly beat LA without trouble are only Pheonix and San Antonio.

Actually Andrew, I'd have to disagree about the T'Wolves. I do think the Spurs would beat the Lakers(Probably in 5 games) but the Wolves don't impress me. The teams I think would definantly beat LA without trouble are only Pheonix and San Antonio.

Agreed.

That's true, the way the Timberwolves are playing right now they won't make much noise in the playoffs unless they shape up - they weren't the best example to use. But I still feel that both Kobe and Wade would be in similar situations if they were both playing without Shaq.