Chicago Bulls Thread

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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:10 pm

Grizzlies Explore Trading No. 4 Pick To Unload Chandler Parsons

The Memphis Grizzlies have explored the possibility of packaging the contract of Chandler Parsons along with the No. 4 overall pick.

Parsons is owed $49.2 million over the next two seasons.

Parsons has missed a combined 94 games over the past two seasons since signing a four-year max contract with the Grizzlies in 2016.

A rebuilding team with cap space could absorb Parsons' contract to add a high draft pick.


The fourth pick is tempting; Parsons' contract, not so much. It might be an acceptable drawback though, depending on what else is involved in the deal. I'm assuming if the Bulls were to throw their hat into the ring, they'd have to include their pick. Realistically, I don't see the Bulls being able to work out a deal where they end up with both picks, as the Grizzlies (rightfully) would want to trade down to get rid of Parsons, not take themselves out of the lottery altogether...unless they're really desperate to shed that contract and have no other takers, I suppose. He does only have a couple of years left and the Bulls are going to be rebuilding through the Draft rather than free agency anyway, so I could get on board with that move if they're in a position to make it.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:30 am

as long as they keep their 7th pick, i'd be open to take on the salary for the 4th pick. getting JJJ and Bridges would be grrreat, tony

Thoughts on the bulls to continue to rebuild through the draft after this year? Even with lavine missing most of the season and tanking post all star break, the “best” they got was a coin flip with sacto for the 7th spot.

i think i may be in favor of keeping some salary flexibility, to go after someone like Favors or Herzonja.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:46 am

I feel like it's inevitable they continue to rebuild through the Draft, even if they had the cap space to go after a big name. I know that was then and this is now, but they just don't seem to be able to land the big names through free agency, and end up settling for less than they should. Their best players usually come via the Draft, or sometimes a trade that pans out. Maybe taking on Parsons' contract would be a blessing in disguise; they wouldn't have cap space to waste on another disappointing free agent signing!

All that being said, it's a fair point that if they're healthy (and the flashes of brilliance from the young players weren't a fluke), they're likely going to be better this coming season, which doesn't help the whole "rebuild through the Draft" approach. They haven't bottomed out enough to do what the 76ers did, and probably won't from here on out. They'd probably have to find a way to trade up in subsequent years, while holding onto the players they don't want to let slip (right now, that's probably just Markkanen).

Overpaying for someone like Favors is arguably better than weathering Parsons' contract, though I'd say the Wizards have provided the league with a cautionary tale about overpaying to be mediocre. That's the pitfall to avoid, and it's what concerns me when I look back at some of the Bulls' free agent signings over the years. I just don't want to see them do the current era's equivalent of signing a Ron Mercer or Ben Wallace (especially the latter).
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:06 am

Fair points. Not sure if it’s the way to go if they are picking from say 7 to late lottery range from here out

The last legit rebuild (not counting the ping pong ball bounce for Rose) Pax did was centered around the draft picks of hinrich, deng, gordon. While that was a nice story, that wasn’t a legit contender.

I’m not saying “overpay” for Favors but players like him are good targets. He’s just 26, he can play, and it’s possible utah won’t keep him around. Nvm the big star, i want them to be in the running for these type of players

I’m not really familiar with the Wiz situation. Mahimi has been a bust and jason smith has been useless. The circumstances of how Wall, Beal, Porter got their contracts...not sure. Do you consider those overpays?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby shadowgrin on Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:40 am

Porter is definitely an overpay. Wizards shouldn’t have matched and instead let him go to the Nets.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:08 am

Yeah, Porter's the worst contract of the bunch, though Wall and Beal are set to be paid like Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, which isn't great either.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:16 am

Ha Porter makes more than those 2. Wall did have a mvp type season 2 yrs back. Regardless, I don't see Favor getting that money
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:50 pm

True, I don't think the Bulls would (or for that matter, actually could) offer him that much. Offering Portis a Porter-like extension is probably the more realistic and therefore concerning scenario, though to be fair, I don't think they'd do that. I can see them extending his contract, but cheaper than Porter.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:49 pm

Wendell Carter it is. I'm still OK with that, let's see how it pans out.

Incidentally, I could've sworn I saw his name used for a generated rookie in NBA Live all those years ago. Not as good as Alan Mutombo or Hakeem Johnson, though.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Moz on Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:25 pm

Relieved they picked Carter and not tempted to pick MPJ. Pick #22 looks like a stud (averaging 20 7 and 3). Long arms, can create his own shots, and from what I saw in the video, his motor can match up to that of Portis.

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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:51 pm

They seem like a couple of solid picks, worth taking a gamble on. No objections here.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:08 am

i give the draft a B

Carter does have a nice skillset to match Lauri. he does resemble marlow stansfield from the wire to me.... his college coach has a long history of not developing blue chip big men, specifically on defense, so i still have my reservations on Carter. but hey the kid's just 19 so he could be an outlier in the regard

pick #22 was ok. the dude was killing it in a mid major conference. some of those guys look like rec league comp lol. decent success rate for 4yr players drafted late 1st round and after

will keep an eye on MPJ. seems like that kid did all he could to get drafted by chicago. even the shaky medical staff didnt want to take that on.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:15 pm

Very happy at us not picking MPJ, seems like he's sitting out the season for Denver too so the back must've been worse than previously indicated.

Wendell should be a serviceable rotational player for his entire career, nothing good nothing bad. Hutchison has good physical traits and potential to be a good 3 and D guy...hope he ends up better than Tony Snell.

A bit mad that we didn't trade up for Doncic at #3, Dallas got him for peanuts. I understand Hawks wanted Trae Young but surely we had enough assets to offset that (Dunn, Portis, #7, #22, future firsts for instance?).

Overall we missed out on a generational talent and got 1-2 rotation role players so my grade for this is a C+. At least it wasn't a total disaster. :-|
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:29 am

so for the bulls nation here, is the consensus more happy to not pick MPJ then actually drafting Carter JR? and just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't drafting MPJ and have him redshirt his rookie year be ideal for another tank season? endure a crappy season but come back next year with possibly a top 5 pick and a healthy MPJ. just saying.

still a big question mark on how they are going to land that superstar. their best currency right now is the all that cap they have in the next 2 years.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Moz on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:29 pm

Valor wrote:A bit mad that we didn't trade up for Doncic at #3, Dallas got him for peanuts. I understand Hawks wanted Trae Young but surely we had enough assets to offset that (Dunn, Portis, #7, #22, future firsts for instance?).

They have a stud in John Collins they don't need Portis (and he's about to be an FA right?), Dunn ain't reliable (and with all these "work ethic" thing hurting his value) and, as you mentioned, they have a massive hardon for Trae Young so it'll be a long shot for the Bulls to get the 3rd pick from the Hawks.

air gordon wrote:so for the bulls nation here, is the consensus more happy to not pick MPJ then actually drafting Carter JR? and just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't drafting MPJ and have him redshirt his rookie year be ideal for another tank season? endure a crappy season but come back next year with possibly a top 5 pick and a healthy MPJ. just saying.

MPJ is a Brandon Roy in the making... As good as it would've been, GarPax knows if they went that way they'll be kicked out of town in no time. Also, isn't it there are new rules which will be implemented this season that will make tanking teams less favorable to land high draft picks?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:58 am

Moz The Boz wrote:MPJ is a Brandon Roy in the making... As good as it would've been, GarPax knows if they went that way they'll be kicked out of town in no time. Also, isn't it there are new rules which will be implemented this season that will make tanking teams less favorable to land high draft picks?

hard to not think the Carter pick was classic GarPax "safe" pick. Carter is another young player to the mix but doesn't significantly make the team better. supposedly they were deciding between sexton and carter...

yeh the odd's were evened out between the bottom 3 albeit at a lower probability to hit #1 and the chances decrease incrementally lower 1.5%. i do prefer still to see the team tank, aka trade any veteran left on the roster, and let all the kids play. will get messy but the core develops and they get a chance for a good pick.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:00 pm

As far as Porter Jr. is concerned, I believe the fact that so many teams passed on him speaks for itself. It could be that all those teams come to regret their scepticism - that's the risk you take - but as Jeffx noted in the Knicks thread, back issues are a red flag. If the injuries weren't a concern, or his upside worth the risk despite them, he would've gone higher than 14. I'd rather they not waste the pick. If they were going the redshirt route, it should be with a player they can have more confidence in so it might actually pan out in the long run, not just a situation that'll get them another lottery pick next year.

To that end, I like the selection of Carter over Porter Jr because they both passed on a player with questionable health, and picked someone who seems like a promising prospect. To me it's not just a matter of "Well it could've been worse" or "At least they didn't do that"; it seems like they made a decent pick as well. Again, I'm not setting the bar too high for Carter or Hutchison at this point, and I didn't expect the Bulls to trade up, so a solid, sensible draft is fine by me. No real disappointment here. I'd be inclined to give them something in the area of a B grade as well.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:06 am

Andrew wrote:A'd rather they not waste the pick. If they were going the redshirt route, it should be with a player they can have more confidence in so it might actually pan out in the long run, not just a situation that'll get them another lottery pick next year.

...To that end, I like the selection of Carter ...

An interesting hypothetical discussion to me at least.. I am posing the question with in mind that Porter redshirts and comes back (ie ben simmons) healthy… not to pick him just to guarantee a lottery pick.

The slide to 14 says enough. Did you think he should have slid further? a team like denver, on the cusp of making the playoffs and possibly losing an important player in will barton, was willing to take the gamble on MPJ

Carter is ok. For someone you consider a “promising project”, “solid pick”, “worth taking a gamble on….on a lottery team like the bulls, is he significantly better than robin lopez??
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:35 pm

It don't really have an answer as to whether or not Porter should've slid any further. I guess it all comes down to who can afford to take a risk, or at what pick it stops becoming much of a risk. Like I said, maybe he makes a lot of teams regret passing on him, but given the implications of serious back issues, they can be forgiven for erring on the side of caution.

I think Carter will start out as Lopez's backup. He's not coming in like a Joel Embiid, or one of the great big men of the past, so until he proves himself at the NBA level I'd give the nod to Lopez by default. It sounds like he has the potential to be better than Lopez, but that was college and this is the NBA, so we'll see.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:07 am

I say he's a bust if he isn't better than rolo. No offense to rolo
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:52 pm

Straight away, or in the long run? Does he immediately need to get that starting spot to not be a bust?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:54 am

i suppose i wasn't specific earlier. do you think Carter JR will be better than Robin Lopez? going off your previous comments on his draft selection, what stat projection does that translate into?

i don't think either Lopez loses his starting position but he's just keeping the spot warm/providing "veteran leadership".

lopez is a solid player so Carter has his work cut out.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:25 am

Going off the scouting report, it sounds like he could be. Too early to say that he definitely will be, but Carter seems to have the potential to take Lopez's spot as he adjusts to the NBA, continues to improve, and as you noted, is mentored by Lopez himself. I get the impression Lopez isn't really in their long-term plans, so I'm all for them taking a chance on a big man who has the potential to replace him. Best case scenario, I'm hoping for a Kenny Anderson/Mookie Blaylock or Shawn Kemp/Xavier McDaniel type of situation. Absolute worst case scenario, they look at drafting another big next year. I'm presently more optimistic than that, but like I said, that's college and this is the NBA. Potential is promising, but that's all it is until it's realised. I like the pick well enough, let's see how it pans out.

Meanwhile, Hutchison looks like he might be the type of player we hoped Denzel Valentine would be. If getting more athletic is still the MO, then it seems like they made a pretty good move there at the 22nd pick.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:21 am

appreciate the swift reply. nice kenny/mookie name drop/reference but you really didn't answer the questions ;)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:11 am

Unless I've missed a question, you asked if I thought Carter will be better than Lopez; as in, definitely better than Lopez. The more succinct version of my above answer is that I don't know that to be a fact and can't possibly say for sure yet. He has the potential to be, so, maybe. Sounds like he could, I hope he does, but it's yet to be proven.

I don't think any of us can make a call that's any more concrete than "probably", "probably not", "possibly", or "maybe", or words to that effect. If there is the data to make that call and you've made it, what's your definitive answer to the question? Personally, I think it's too early to give one. Maybe that's an answer in and of itself, that he isn't a sure thing, though I don't believe it's enough to write him off.

So again, I say maybe, because it seems like Carter could be better than Lopez; no guarantees that he will be, but it's a possibility. What do you say? I'm guessing you're reasonably optimistic, given your grade of B?

They're showing the Summer League on ESPN Australia and I noticed there's a Bulls/Cavs game on the schedule. Like college, the Summer League is a different beast to regular NBA competition, but that might give us all more of an idea of what he can do, and how optimistic we should be in regards to his prospects.
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