Can Gasol play center? (Interesting)
Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:39 am
Ok I found this on a board posted by klondike who makes alot of sense. I want to see what everyone thinks about this:
Could Dampier help out, yes IF he's motivated, IF he's healthy, IF he can duplicate his stats from last year but that's a lot of ifs and giving a multi-year big money contract to a 30 year old with bad kness with that many ifs may not be smart. If we can’t sign an Eddy Curry or Kwame Brown, I propose the following actions:
Pau is listed at 7’ 240 lbs, Ren is listed at 6’11” 240 lbs and plays C, Stro is listed at 6’9” and 230 lbs and plays some C and one of the greatest Cs of all-time Hakeem Olajuwon was listed at 7’ 255 lbs and I’m pretty sure that 255 was towards the end of his career. He probably played closer to 240-245lbs during his prime. So I don’t want to hear this stuff about how Pau isn’t big enough to play C, he is. As a matter of fact, I have painstakingly took all of the starting Cs from Western Conference teams based on ESPN’s depth charts and their average dimensions are:
7’ 265 lbs for starting C’s from last year
7’ 258 lbs For projected starting C’s for next year it is about (this is without Shaq and Damp and using Brian Grant as the starting C in LA)
If you take Yao out of that last number it drops to an average Western Conference C being 6’11”, 254 lbs, Pau is 7’ 240 lbs, not much difference.
When you take into consideration that most of the rebounding and banging comes from the PF position (check the top rebounders from last year) and that about 40% of the people in the top 20 in blocks are non-centers. I have absolutely no reason to believe that moving Pau to C, starting Stro at the PF, having Ren as a backup PF/C and signing a backup C like Greg Ostertag would not work. As a matter of fact, I think it would give the competition fits. Here’s my reasoning
Pau- In no way am I saying Pau is Hakeem, BUT I think Pau could use some of the same skills that made Hakeem successful against larger Cs-footwork, speed, complete offensive arsenal, b-ball IQ, craftiness, rebound positioning- to dominate the Cs of today like Hakeem did the Cs of yesterday. Hakeem owned Shaq and I guarantee if he were 10 years younger and playing today he would dominate Yao as well. Yes I said COMPLETELY DOMINATE Yao. Hakeem was much better defensively but I think if we utilize Pau in this manner at the C position it would give other teams fits, mainly because most other teams have stiffs at C that are slow-footed and slow to react. It would also give him a better chance to get recognition and go to the All-Star game, I mean look at the PF in the West-Duncan, KG, Webber, Dirk Diggler, Kenyon Martin, Zach Randolph, Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand, Amare Stoudamire- he would have to beat those guys out as opposed to who at C? Yao and Brad Miller, that’s it.
Stro- I think Stro would benefit greatly by getting significant playing time at the PF position. He’s not a C and I still don’t understand the reasoning of putting him at C and not Pau because Pau’s undersized, heck Stro is smaller than Pau. He doesn’t have the ball-handling skills nor wing skills to play SF (sorry Lioncub) but put him at PF and I bet he would dominate, his shot-blocking and rebounding would increase.
Ren- As much as I love Ren, he doesn’t have the offensive skills of Pau and doesn’t have the defensive skills nor athletic ability of Stro, what he lacks he makes up for with hustle. Love the guy, but I think for a team like ours having him coming in as a backup PF/C would do us wonders and his injuries would go down as well. He could dominate other teams’ bench players too.
Greg Ostertag- I know most people are probably like “what? Ostertag, that guy sucks” Well, does he really? It depends on your point of refernce, if you are trying to compare him as a starting C to the Ewings and Olajuwons and David Robinsons that were around when he came into the league yes, he does suck, if you are trying to compare him as a starting C to Shaq and Yao yes he does suck. But if you are looking at getting a serviceable quality backup C that can rebound and block shots and knows how to win, Ostertag is not a bad option and may be your best bet. Ostertag has never been on a team with a losing record and has only missed the playoffs once in his career. Sure most of that is due to Stockton and Malone but my point is he would be coming from a winning environment where they know how to win with a tough hard nosed coach that won’t settle for less in Sloan. Ostertag is 7’2”, 280 lbs and has never played less than 57 games in a season and that was his rookie year outside of that he basically has played in at least 70 games his entire career(he played 48 out of 50 games in the lockout season) and 63 games in 97-98. We could probably sign him with the veteran’s exception of $1.6 mil.
The state of Centers in the NBA- Most of them suck. I had this in another post as well, but in the past few years most people over 6’9” that have come into the NBA want to play like a SF and some don’t even like playing like a PF. They are not true centers nor do they want to be. Not too many people play with their back to the basket and bang it inside. Outside of Yao and Shaq, the main ones that do, do so out of necessity because they won’t have a job, they’re not quick and don’t have outside games like your KG’s and Rasheeds. So they bulk up(or are already fat) and try to sit in the lane, problem is, THEY DON’T HAVE SKILLS. They are just big. They give virtually no offensive or defensive production and get out-rebounded by the PF and even SF. Most C don’t know how to rebound, they just get rebounds because they are bigger than everyone else but when people like Dennis Rodman, Brian Grant and Ben Wallace come along, they out-rebound these big lugs because they understand rebounding and positioning. How many times have you seen a smaller player go and grab rebounds? How many times have you heard commentators use the phrase “he went in amongst the trees and came down with the board” If we can teach Pau and Stro how to properly rebound and properly get positioning, with Pau’s height and Stro’s hops I guarantee you we would have the starting PF and C averaging at least 9 rpg each, easily, if not more .
I think if we move Pau to C he would be an All-Star next season and would dominate most C’s. That would be the best move for this team in my opinion. Forget Dampier and forget this mythological big banger who plays defense and will play the majority of the season, they don't exist. If they did then we would not be using a combination of Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudamire and a rookie-Emeka Okafor for our C in the Olympics.
Could Dampier help out, yes IF he's motivated, IF he's healthy, IF he can duplicate his stats from last year but that's a lot of ifs and giving a multi-year big money contract to a 30 year old with bad kness with that many ifs may not be smart. If we can’t sign an Eddy Curry or Kwame Brown, I propose the following actions:
Pau is listed at 7’ 240 lbs, Ren is listed at 6’11” 240 lbs and plays C, Stro is listed at 6’9” and 230 lbs and plays some C and one of the greatest Cs of all-time Hakeem Olajuwon was listed at 7’ 255 lbs and I’m pretty sure that 255 was towards the end of his career. He probably played closer to 240-245lbs during his prime. So I don’t want to hear this stuff about how Pau isn’t big enough to play C, he is. As a matter of fact, I have painstakingly took all of the starting Cs from Western Conference teams based on ESPN’s depth charts and their average dimensions are:
7’ 265 lbs for starting C’s from last year
7’ 258 lbs For projected starting C’s for next year it is about (this is without Shaq and Damp and using Brian Grant as the starting C in LA)
If you take Yao out of that last number it drops to an average Western Conference C being 6’11”, 254 lbs, Pau is 7’ 240 lbs, not much difference.
When you take into consideration that most of the rebounding and banging comes from the PF position (check the top rebounders from last year) and that about 40% of the people in the top 20 in blocks are non-centers. I have absolutely no reason to believe that moving Pau to C, starting Stro at the PF, having Ren as a backup PF/C and signing a backup C like Greg Ostertag would not work. As a matter of fact, I think it would give the competition fits. Here’s my reasoning
Pau- In no way am I saying Pau is Hakeem, BUT I think Pau could use some of the same skills that made Hakeem successful against larger Cs-footwork, speed, complete offensive arsenal, b-ball IQ, craftiness, rebound positioning- to dominate the Cs of today like Hakeem did the Cs of yesterday. Hakeem owned Shaq and I guarantee if he were 10 years younger and playing today he would dominate Yao as well. Yes I said COMPLETELY DOMINATE Yao. Hakeem was much better defensively but I think if we utilize Pau in this manner at the C position it would give other teams fits, mainly because most other teams have stiffs at C that are slow-footed and slow to react. It would also give him a better chance to get recognition and go to the All-Star game, I mean look at the PF in the West-Duncan, KG, Webber, Dirk Diggler, Kenyon Martin, Zach Randolph, Carlos Boozer, Elton Brand, Amare Stoudamire- he would have to beat those guys out as opposed to who at C? Yao and Brad Miller, that’s it.
Stro- I think Stro would benefit greatly by getting significant playing time at the PF position. He’s not a C and I still don’t understand the reasoning of putting him at C and not Pau because Pau’s undersized, heck Stro is smaller than Pau. He doesn’t have the ball-handling skills nor wing skills to play SF (sorry Lioncub) but put him at PF and I bet he would dominate, his shot-blocking and rebounding would increase.
Ren- As much as I love Ren, he doesn’t have the offensive skills of Pau and doesn’t have the defensive skills nor athletic ability of Stro, what he lacks he makes up for with hustle. Love the guy, but I think for a team like ours having him coming in as a backup PF/C would do us wonders and his injuries would go down as well. He could dominate other teams’ bench players too.
Greg Ostertag- I know most people are probably like “what? Ostertag, that guy sucks” Well, does he really? It depends on your point of refernce, if you are trying to compare him as a starting C to the Ewings and Olajuwons and David Robinsons that were around when he came into the league yes, he does suck, if you are trying to compare him as a starting C to Shaq and Yao yes he does suck. But if you are looking at getting a serviceable quality backup C that can rebound and block shots and knows how to win, Ostertag is not a bad option and may be your best bet. Ostertag has never been on a team with a losing record and has only missed the playoffs once in his career. Sure most of that is due to Stockton and Malone but my point is he would be coming from a winning environment where they know how to win with a tough hard nosed coach that won’t settle for less in Sloan. Ostertag is 7’2”, 280 lbs and has never played less than 57 games in a season and that was his rookie year outside of that he basically has played in at least 70 games his entire career(he played 48 out of 50 games in the lockout season) and 63 games in 97-98. We could probably sign him with the veteran’s exception of $1.6 mil.
The state of Centers in the NBA- Most of them suck. I had this in another post as well, but in the past few years most people over 6’9” that have come into the NBA want to play like a SF and some don’t even like playing like a PF. They are not true centers nor do they want to be. Not too many people play with their back to the basket and bang it inside. Outside of Yao and Shaq, the main ones that do, do so out of necessity because they won’t have a job, they’re not quick and don’t have outside games like your KG’s and Rasheeds. So they bulk up(or are already fat) and try to sit in the lane, problem is, THEY DON’T HAVE SKILLS. They are just big. They give virtually no offensive or defensive production and get out-rebounded by the PF and even SF. Most C don’t know how to rebound, they just get rebounds because they are bigger than everyone else but when people like Dennis Rodman, Brian Grant and Ben Wallace come along, they out-rebound these big lugs because they understand rebounding and positioning. How many times have you seen a smaller player go and grab rebounds? How many times have you heard commentators use the phrase “he went in amongst the trees and came down with the board” If we can teach Pau and Stro how to properly rebound and properly get positioning, with Pau’s height and Stro’s hops I guarantee you we would have the starting PF and C averaging at least 9 rpg each, easily, if not more .
I think if we move Pau to C he would be an All-Star next season and would dominate most C’s. That would be the best move for this team in my opinion. Forget Dampier and forget this mythological big banger who plays defense and will play the majority of the season, they don't exist. If they did then we would not be using a combination of Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudamire and a rookie-Emeka Okafor for our C in the Olympics.
Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:58 am
I don't see why it shouldn't happen, I never liked Stromile playing C, that was stupid, he's a PF, and will be a good one if he gets to play it.
Pau can play center, the only problem is that Gasol is what I call a statistical defender, he's a bad defender, but wil get the block numbers, but get beat all the other times, but his defense won't be any worse than it was with him at PF.
Pau can play center, the only problem is that Gasol is what I call a statistical defender, he's a bad defender, but wil get the block numbers, but get beat all the other times, but his defense won't be any worse than it was with him at PF.
Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:09 am
Why are 7 footers playin forward anyways.They are all centers.KG is the only real exception cuz he aint big and would get pushed around.But Pao should be a center and Swift at da 4 spot.Works for everyone
Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:16 am
throwbackeckotl wrote:Why are 7 footers playin forward anyways.They are all centers.KG is the only real exception cuz he aint big and would get pushed around.But Pao should be a center and Swift at da 4 spot.Works for everyone
I think you should play whatever your skill set is fit for, why is Peja playing SF? Why is Jonathan Bender a SG/SF?
Whatever your skill set fits, but Gasol is capable of both PF/C.
Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:17 am
where they need you at is where u need to be
peja-i dont know,aint he tall?
bender-dont really care
peja-i dont know,aint he tall?
bender-dont really care
Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:12 am
why is duncan a PF still:(
he got all the skills like a center, he even looks like one in my opinion
he got all the skills like a center, he even looks like one in my opinion
Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:17 am
I guess there stats wont be as good as they are if they would go to the positiont thats right
Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:45 am
Yea if the Grizzlies can't get Dampier I would like to see a lineup of:
C-Gasol
PF-Swift
SF-Posey
SG-Miller
PG-Jwill
That way Swift will be happy as a starter and hopefully Gasol can get bigger and play C for us
C-Gasol
PF-Swift
SF-Posey
SG-Miller
PG-Jwill
That way Swift will be happy as a starter and hopefully Gasol can get bigger and play C for us
Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:09 am
That does seem true about how the C's don't know how to rebound. Remember Ben Wallace in the finals? Shaq was standing still as Big Ben was running around like a wide reciever catching boards.
Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:31 pm
I don't know, is not too much about Pau's weight, is more about his strenght...he doesn't seem too strong to play the C.
Ostertag...knows how to win??
that sounds funny, I'm not hating, but it's like saying that Longley knew how to win.
True
But if you are looking at getting a serviceable quality backup C that can rebound and block shots and knows how to win, Ostertag is not a bad option and may be your best bet. Ostertag has never been on a team with a losing record and has only missed the playoffs once in his career. Sure most of that is due to Stockton and Malone but my point is he would be coming from a winning environment where they know how to win with a tough hard nosed coach that won’t settle for less in Sloan.
Ostertag...knows how to win??
that sounds funny, I'm not hating, but it's like saying that Longley knew how to win.The state of Centers in the NBA- Most of them suck.
True
Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:47 pm
i have no doubt that Gasol can play C on offense, but as previously mentioned his defense isn't that good. He'd be in foul trouble a lot more.
Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:11 pm
yea, if only he could get some more strength..he plays with heart, but i have seen him play with alot of heart and when he plays with alot of heart he can do alot of things. we would need that from him 90% of these regular season games
Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:41 pm
The way I see it, Pau Gasol is not unlike Dirk Nowitzki in that he can certainly play centre if need be and should do a pretty good job most of the time, but he's really more suited to playing either forward spot (mostly power forward). It's something that the Grizz might try but I think they'll find that Wright (or Dampier if they get him) would be better off playing at centre with Pau playing at power forward.
Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:21 am
As of now, it looks like we still have a chance at getting him because like I said in that other thread, that the Portland deal was going to screw up the Knicks deal which it did and Grizzlies still have another chance at getting him.
Yea Pau isnt a jump shooter. He loves to go inside and use his quickness. If only he would stop complaining to the refs about every call so much. Late last season he didn't do that as much.
Yea Pau isnt a jump shooter. He loves to go inside and use his quickness. If only he would stop complaining to the refs about every call so much. Late last season he didn't do that as much.
Thu Jul 22, 2004 12:46 pm
Memphis will not win the NBA title with Gasol as their CENTER
Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:01 pm
macias buto wrote:Memphis will not win the NBA title with Gasol as their CENTER
Very true, no team will win a championship with a perimeter PF who can't play defense, aka Dirk and Gasol, unless they have a second big star on the team, and actually have that guy be the main guy, and the PF be the secondary player.
Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:39 pm
When you have Swift or Wright next to you, does it matter if you can play center or not? Nope. He'll still play the 4 if Swift and Wright come back, but defensively, it depends. If they're facing the Spurs with Duncan and Rasho, I'm pretty sure Gasol will be the 5 on defense, guarding Rasho. If Rose comes into the game for Rasho, and Duncan on paper (because the media and lots of fans just have to make stereotypical assumptions that the 6'7" guy can't play center with your 7' guy playing the 4), is the 5, Gasol will guard the 4 and Swift/Wright the 5, being Duncan here. It's not like Gasol is 6'7", so there really isn't a huge need for a big physical player next to him. There isn't a huge difference between the 4 and 5, except on defense and offensive play sets. For plays, you can flip flop, so if you have Swift and Gasol, and the play has the 5 going in the the right block, 8 feet away from the basket, and the 4 goes 15 feet away from the basket, on the baseline, Swift will be the 4 and Gasol the 5 often times. As for defense, you get to pick who you're guarding and naturally Gasol will guard the inferior player or the weaker player (strength wise).