Brand or O'Neal?

Alright, you're starting a franchise and you can pick from A) Elton Brand or B) Jermaine O'Neal.

Which of the two do you pick? Let's just ignore Brand's injuries for the moment. On the spot, who do you pick & why?

I'll give you my pick after I've seen a few replies.

Jermaine O´Neal.

I know he can win and I didnt see Elton Brand do that, sure Jermaine has the better team, but he wins and Elton doesnt so I dont know if Elton is able to lead a team. For now I pick Jermaine who also happens to be a 3 times All-Star compared to Brand who only made the team one time. I do like Elton Brand however, but to lead a franchise? I dont think he can handle that.

Hehe, I was waiting for that. Yay, now I get to say how I disagree.

I'd pick Brand, why? O'Neal has a better team yet Brand manages to post the almost identical numbers as O'Neal does.

In fact, if you look at the statistics you'll see that Brand > O'Neal. The only areas in which O'Neal has an "advantage" would be points per game (that also being a measly .1 point) & a .32 block more than Brand. The .1 point per game is jack shit. The .32 block is pretty much a given since Brand is like 6'8 & O'Neal is like 6'11.

Another thing going for Brand is that he's a year younger than O'Neal. O'Neal was born in 78 & Brand was born in 79.

Brand seems to be the more calm/fundamental player whereas O'Neal is the "flashier" type you could say. He gets alot of media attention because of the Pacers in the playoffs etc, but don't forget that the Pacers are quite a deep team. O'Neal is obsessed with that mid-range jumper which makes his FG% a mere .434%, I mean come on. You're 6'11 and in the East. Brand on the other hand has a shooting percentage of .493% (yes, almost .500) whilst being "just" 6'8.

All-Star selections shouldn't be something that you base your decision upon.

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Mj is the best

Anways i would choose Jermaine he is something special

JO. Brand puts up nice stats, but again JO has reached the playoffs. Until Brand makes the playoffs, I might change my mind. I wouldn't say JO is flashier, although Brand is more effecient.

i rather not build a team around either player but if i had to pick i would go with oneal. i think brand is the better player but i think he is best in a secondary role. oneal is a better team leader imo and a better go to guy.

Again, JO has reached the playoffs mainly because of his team. Brand still > O'Neal statistically. If you think about picking an individual how do the playoffs matter?

O'Neal didnt carry the Pacers into the finals on his back. He had a (much) better supporting cast around him.

Let me rephrase my original question, who's better? O'Neal or Brand?

brand. btw if the clips were in the east i think they would have been in the playoffs.

WOW! Riot and I had a conversation about this about 2 months back and I told him Brand was the better pick. The reason why is because Brand played in the West, while O'neal was playing in the East. O'neal also has a better team than Brand. Brand puts up slightly better numbers than O'neal, or the same. Brand is shorter than O'neal, but yet plays like an all-star in the Western Conference. If you put Brand on the Pacers and O'neal on the Clippers, I don't think O'neal can lead the Clippers to a playoff spot in the West. If you put Brand on a high market team that has good players and a team that you know that can make the playoffs, then he would probably end up being an MVP canidate like O'neal was last season.

Last season Brand averaged 20.0ppg, 10.3rpg, 3.3apg, 2.2bpg and shot 49% from the field. O'eanl averaged 20.1ppg, 10.0rpg, 2.1apg, 2.5bpg and shot 43% from the field.

defenitely jo,he has much more talent,is only 26 and has already played 8 seasons i´m sure he´ll raise his game the next few seasons

Brand still > O'Neal statistically. If you think about picking an individual how do the playoffs matter?

well tracy mcgrady> kobe statistically too. It's a team game, its easier to get good stats on a bad team since your one of the few if not the only option they have.

i would take tmac over kobe anyday.

opps sorry don't wanna make this a tmac vs kobe thread but in other words what i was trying to say is that stats can be misleading if your on a bad team. Not always, but sometimes they an be.

wait...wait...wait....

So you're saying in Brand-J O'Neal agrument that playoffs don't matter, it's all about the indivdual. But in the KG-Duncan agrument you said being able to lead your team and winning a title is what seperates Duncan from KG.

Please explain.

It's not like Brand has no talent either remember when he had Andre Miller, Lamar Odom, Michael Olowokandi, Corey Maggette, Quentin Richardson. Jermaine O'Neal's pacer team wasn't that talented.

think he got you there, though neither has won a title oneal has made it to the dance.

I'd pick Brand, why? O'Neal has a better team yet Brand manages to post the almost identical numbers as O'Neal does.

As it's been mentioned, good players on a shit team are more likely to post high numbers. T-Mac in Orlando, LeBron in Cleveland (yes) and Kobe in LA this season (hmm). Elton Brand has only ever played for Chicago and the LA Clippers, is there seriously two worse teams in the NBA than that? If he and Jermaine switched places it's safe to say Jermaine's statistics would be boosted significantly.

I hate when people use the arguement about this player is in the west so hes better blah blah. Jo doesn't get to choose where he plays he just goes out and does his job regardless. Jermaine himself said that his stats are better when playing against west teams. I dont have the stats right here but im pretty sure Jermaine should know his own stats well enough to be credible.

I think Jermaine and Brand are pretty much equal in stats but so is Jason Kidd and Stephon Marbury and I dont think you would argue Jason isnt the better point guard.

When it comes down to it you have to compare there qualities and history. Jermaine is a proven leader and a winner. Brand has yet to be on a winning team and hasn't proved hes willing to lead his team and take that game winning shot.

If I was building a franchise today and I had to choose between O'neal or Brand I think I would take the guy whos a proven winner and leader like O'neal.

I think I'd take Jermaine O'Neal. He certainly has more help than Brand, but he's also demonstrated the ability to meld with other talent and be part of a winning team. You could say that he hasn't put his team on his back and carried them alone, but Brand certainly hasn't done that either.

To reiterate what LouisvilleLip said, playing in the East or West shouldn't matter or diminish a player's accomplishments. If the entire East is so poor, it's still a level playing field out there. As LouisvilleLip also noted, Jermaine's stats vs Western teams aren't shabby anyway.

Like Sauru, I probably wouldn't pick either to be The Man for my team given the choice, but if those are my only options I'd pick JO.

actually i think it can go both ways in respect to a players stats with a good/bad team. for instance, if you got a good team with 3-4 scorers on the court then the defense cant double you, they gotta leave you in a one on one situation. now if you are the only scoreing option cause you play for a crap team they can constantly throw 2 and 3 defenders at you which definetly makes scoreing harder. now i know we are talking about big men here but this is really true with point guards, pass first point guards. a pg can rack up way more assists when he got a team who can score. also when a bigman got a team with good defenders he is more likely to have a higher rebound average since his teams defense will creat more missed shots.

on the other hand if you are the only option you can shoot at will. so basicly the question would be, what is brands shots per game compared to oneals for last season? take that, shooting %, FTA and FT%, and ppg.

I'd pic Brand. O'Neal was in the league longer because he skipped college, but he didn't exactly have the best numbers either. Brand went to college, won (I think?), and came to the NBA and made an impact with great stats. Also with all the undersized players that do well I'd go with Brand because even though he's undersized he does just as good as any other guy at his position. He's also not the most explosive and flashy player like O'Neal is, he just tries to get the job done.

Knowing Brand a little bit more I'd naturally like him more. I've seen him do some smart things before, like going out of his way to knock the ball out of bounds just to eat up the clock (he did this once to win the game).

I'd take Brand, he's a better passer, slightly better mid-range shooter, at least percentage wise, and they're about equal in rebounding and shot blocking. Another thing is that Brand is a worker, and for a star kinda guy he does many things you'll see from hustle player like Mark Madsen or Brian Cardinal.
After Tim Duncan, Brand is the only other player in the league to rival him in post skill, he has unlimited moves down low, and knows how to score when he get's the ball deep. He doesn't have a go to move, but he has so many moves its hard to stop him down there.

Brand's mid-range FG% is 38.9%, Duncan's is 38.4%, and Jermaine O'neal's is 37.8%, he also takes a lot more mid-range jumpers (JO that is), 73% of his attempts, as opposed to 58% and 56% by Brand and Duncan. JO wan'ts to be KG, but can't make the shots like him .

Even inside, I already said how Brand's interior skills are very very good, he shoots 60.9% in the paint as opposed to 46.0% by Jermaine O'neal.

Some other misc numbers, Brand get's blocked way less than JO, he creates his own shot more often and better, he get's assisted on 58% of his makes as opposed to JO who get's assisted on 71% of his makes, and he still shoots a better percentage.

Now for the "better winner" argument, is Kenyon Martin better than Brand because he's won more?
If you actually payed attention to why Brand's teams have lost (I will only explain if needed), injuries being a big part, this argument wouldn't even surface. Now another misc stat, the Clippers were 18-20 this season when their starting lineup was healthy and playing, hmm, interesting.

well tracy mcgrady> kobe statistically too. It's a team game, its easier to get good stats on a bad team since your one of the few if not the only option they have.

Brand takes 14.2 shots a game, and JO takes 17.9 shots a game, guess that theory just got smashed.

It's not like Brand has no talent either remember when he had Andre Miller, Lamar Odom, Michael Olowokandi, Corey Maggette, Quentin Richardson. Jermaine O'Neal's pacer team wasn't that talented.

remember how the starters missed a combined 117 games, Kandi played 36, Odom 49, Brand 62, and Maggette 64, the lone survivor was Andre Miller playing 80 games.
Even the bench was injured, Q-Rich played 59 games, Piatakowski 62, Jaric 66, Ely 52, and Wilcox 46 games only.
The team had Tremaine Fowlkes back again, and starting 10 games too, and Cherokee Parks and Sean Rooks starting, I wonder why they weren't succesful.

As it's been mentioned, good players on a shit team are more likely to post high numbers. T-Mac in Orlando, LeBron in Cleveland (yes) and Kobe in LA this season (hmm). Elton Brand has only ever played for Chicago and the LA Clippers, is there seriously two worse teams in the NBA than that? If he and Jermaine switched places it's safe to say Jermaine's statistics would be boosted significantly.

Wait, shouldn't a better team make your FG% go higher? Jermaine already takes more shots and scores less, yet him going to a worse team and taking less shots should make his numbers go higher?
Playing on a bad team also helps blocks and rebounds right?

defenitely jo,he has much more talent,is only 26 and has already played 8 seasons i´m sure he´ll raise his game the next few seasons

If he's 26 and has played 8 seasons, shouldn't that mean he should be about reaching his peak as opposed to raising his game even further?

No because he started late. A big man prime is 28-31 years old. Doesn't matter how long you have been in the league.

I take Jerm over Elton in this.

Just like the KG-Duncan agrument. Winning is the ultimate bench mark for a player. Jermaine wins, Brand doesn't. I'd take that over a higher %FG anyday.

Jermaine took 418 more shots last season so that could contribute to the difference in there fg%. You also have to take into account that Jermaine is really experimenting with his offensive game since adding his outside jumpshot just this past season. Jermaine seems to always come out every season with a new addition to his game and always improving his fundamentals.

Wait, shouldn't a better team make your FG% go higher?

No.

Jermaine already takes more shots and scores less, yet him going to a worse team and taking less shots should make his numbers go higher?

Who says he'd take less shots at a worse team? Just because Elton Brand does doesn't mean Jermaine would too.

Playing on a bad team also helps blocks and rebounds right?

Yes.