Greatest Basketball Mind?

This is a somewhat off-beat topic that I've actually been meaning to post here for over a year. So let's finally get to it.

There is so much emphasis being placed on bodies in basketball, height, athleticism, muscle etc...that it seems like the idea of the trained basketball mind gets lost in the shuffle. Nevertheless...while the best bodies are often sitting on benches...the best minds seem to always rise to the top.

With that in mind, let's all take a poll and discuss to decide who had or has the brain with the greatest knowledge ever of the game of basketball. (Note: Statistics are, for the most part, off the top of my head. If you see any errors feel free to correct me. And yes, this topic does bleed away from NBA Talk but it is for the most part.)

With that being said, let's get to the candidates!

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John Wooden
Why he might be: Coached UCLA to a freakish 10 NCAA Championships in 12 years, including 7 in a row and a stretch of 88-straight wins over three seasons. No other team ever has won more than 2 NCAA championships in a row. As a player he was an All-American point guard at Purdue University. Coined countless quotations including "Failing to prepare is preparing to fail."

Why he might not be: Wooden never played or coached on the NBA level, though during his playing days the NBA did not exist.

Michael Jordan
Why he might be: Widely considered the game's All-Time Greatest Player. Won six NBA championships, 5 NBA Finals MVP's as the leader of the Chicago Bulls, including and a career scoring average of over 30-points-per-game, all from the shooting guard position.

Why he might not be: Has yet to achieve success as a general manager in his post-basketball career. Some amount of his success as a player was due to his incredible athleticism.

Jerry West
Why he might be: Incredible success as both a basketball player and executive. Won an NBA Title, made 9 NBA Finals appearances and scored 27 points-per-game over his playing career as a 6'2" guard. After his retirement he went on to build part of the Showtime Lakers and the Threepeat Shaq-Kobe Lakers as the team's GM. He recently built the Memphis Grizzlies into a playoff team and continues to improve them.

Why he might not be: West was not able to win a championship until he teamed with the dominating Wilt Chamberlain. He only coached the Lakers for three years, but did manage to get the team to the playoffs in that position.

Phil Jackson
Why he might be: Won a championship as part of the New York Knicks despite not having a great amount of athleticism. Has amassed an astonishing 9 NBA championship rings in 12 years as a coach, including two threepeats with the Chicago Bulls and one threepeat with the Los Angeles Lakers. Combined the art of Zen with basketball and popularized the Triangle Offense.

Why he might not be: Phil's accomplishments as a player do not measure up to his success as a coach. Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant might have contributed more to Phil's 9 rings than he himself.

Mike Kryzewski
Why he might be: "Coach K" is easily the best Coach in modern college basketball and has been for years. Has won three National Championships as a coach, and continues to recruit a powerhouse class every year for the program he has built. None of his players seem as good in the pros as they are under his tutelage.

Why he might not be: Did not have a storied career as a player. He has had arguably the best team in college basketball for years, so his coaching might not be all it's cracked up to be.

Red Auerbach
Why he might be: Constructed and coached the Boston Celtics 60's teams that won an unmatched 11 NBA championships, including 8 in a row. Personally coached the team to 9 of those championships. Unlike many coaches, he can also be credited for the quality of talent he had to work with, as he made the draft picks and trades that created the Celtic powerhouse. Credited with 'inventing' the fast break style of basketball. Was also a master of gamesmanship, known for turning off the hot water in other team's locker rooms and a number of other tricks to get his team the edge.
After coaching, Auerbach moved to the Celtic's front office, where he constructed the Celtics championship teams of the 80's that did battle with the Laker teams that were created by Jerry West. He was voted NBA Executive of the Year in 1980.

Why he might not be: After he left the team as a coach, Bill Russell was able to coach them to two more championships while also playing. Like others on this list, Red was not nearly as good a player as he was a coach.

Bill Russell
Why he might be: Was the centerpiece of the Celtic dynasty of the 60's. Widely considered the greatest defensive player of all-time. An innovative thinker who was the first player to wear a goatee. After coach Red Auerbach retired, Russell became player coach and led the team to 2 more championships while doing double duty.

Why he might not be: Red Auerbach built the Celtic team. It could be argued that anyone could have coached them to a championship while just following Auerbach's blueprint. But for a player-coach to do it is not so easy.
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My vote goes to Jerry West. His success as a Player and GM on the pro level just edges out Wooden in my opinion.

Cast your votes...and be sure to make a post to explain your reasoning...especially if you vote for someone not listed.

Last edited by EGarrett on Tue May 11, 2004 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Phil Jackson, because he was a great coach with the Bulls, and is a great coach with the Lakers, which he will continue to be with probably until he retires, and with his championship rings with the Knicks, that was not really that great of a team when he came in, and he made them a great team, and the 9 rings in 12 seasons don’t hurt either, also as you said, he basically made the “Triangle Offence”
(btw- i did not even know he was a player)

I would say Wooden as far as being a great teacher of the game. The guy hated dunks because he felt it was a crutch for big guys. He preferred they learned to shoot first.. hence Kareem and the sky hook. The guy just knew the game from what I hear. This coming from a huge MJ and Phil Jackson fan. I think you always gotta give respect to those that came before.

West, he has the ability to see & make teams before anyone else is able to see their potential. Let's not forget he's Mr Basketball himself, great player. After that I would choose Jackson.

Michael has an understanding of the game, West has understanding of the game plus the ability to handle people.

i'd go with west on this. Good player and good GM..

greatest basketball mind means exactly what?
best x & o guy?
best talent evaluator?
best mental strength?
other factors?

i don't think you can take away a coach's accomplishments as a player and vice versa considering since most successful coaches were not successful nba players...

i think that auerbach was the coach/exectutive with the best basketball mind. he coached that early celtic dynasty and played a big role in putting together the great celtic teams of the 80's

player wise, it's too hard of a call between russell, west, magic, larry, and jordan. ha maybe jerry lucas who had a cpu for a brain

Phil Jackson, because he was a great coach with the Bulls, and is a great coach with the Lakers, which he will continue to be with probably until he retires, and with his championship rings with the Knicks, that was not really that great of a team when he came in, and he made them a great team, and the 9 rings in 12 seasons don’t hurt either, also as you said, he basically made the “Triangle Offence”
(btw- i did not even know he was a player)

is it just me or is this kinda funny?

the knicks were already pretty good and were pretty much always good since they came into the league....they had walt frazier, willis reed, earl monroe, jerry lucas (for a while), etc....it wasnt him who made them a great team.

Phil Jackson, because he was a great coach with the Bulls, and is a great coach with the Lakers, which he will continue to be with probably until he retires, and with his championship rings with the Knicks, that was not really that great of a team when he came in, and he made them a great team, and the 9 rings in 12 seasons don’t hurt either, also as you said, he basically made the “Triangle Offence”
(btw- i did not even know he was a player)

Phil Jackson did not make the Triangle Offence.
Its another guy (cant remember ) on the lakers staff if im not wrong who invented it.
He is still a great coach but i have no answer to the question.
You cant compare a player/coach/executive career.
They all have great knowledge in different ways but i cant point anyone out...actually i can: MJ but that is biased

Tex Winter was the mind behind the triangle.

I vote for Jerry West. He put together and played on some very good teams in LA, and in Memphis he got the right coach to push them to the next level. I've also heard he is such a great competitor that even as an executive he can't stand to watch games with his team in case they are messing up. Don't know how reliable that is though.

And the 70 foot shot.

No offense Genocide, but saying the Knicks of the early 70's weren't great is way off base. I actually saw them play, and I'm telling you, they were an all-time team. It was fundamental basketball at its best. They were a finely-tuned unit - everyone played his role to perfection. Believe me, Phil Jackson did not make them great.

Smartest player ever? On the court, it's Bill Russell, no doubt.

Player & GM? Jerry West. Forget his great job with the Lakers. What he(and Hubie) did in Memphis was simply amazing. For that team to win 50 games in the brutal Western Conference is mind-boggling.

I think we need to define what a great basketball mind means. Sounds like you guys are giving Jerry West the crown because of his scouting ability.

greatest basketball mind means exactly what?
best x & o guy?
best talent evaluator?
best mental strength?
other factors?

I think we need to define what a great basketball mind means. Sounds like you guys are giving Jerry West the crown because of his scouting ability.

In the first post I said...

"...who had or has the brain with the greatest knowledge ever of the game of basketball."

Who knows and understands the most about the game of basketball...

Fine then but I feel this is going to be a wash and end up with the rest of those greatest of .. threads. Those that you listed are all great in their own respect. As a player Jordan had a fantastic basketball mind to be able to break down defenses night in and night out. Phil Jackson obviously can't be the best when it's been said thats he's not the greates when it comes to making in game adjustments (everybody knows that Tex and the rest of Phil's staff had alot to do with his success). Now Bill Russell there must have been a hellova mind in order to be a player/coach at the same time. Wooden is probably though the undisputed mind as being able to teach the game extremely well so... take it how you wish.

Last edited by RedTorro on Wed May 12, 2004 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

A great idea for a topic, but a tough choice. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson might also be good candidates, though I have no argument with the individuals listed in the poll.

I don't think I can pick just one. MJ displayed such a brilliant basketball mind during his NBA career, but Jerry West has had much more success as an executive. An understanding of the Xs and Os also has to come into play, as well as the ability to utilise all the talent on the roster.

If I may, I'd like to name three candidates in three categories. Michael Jordan as a player, Jerry West as an executive, and Phil Jackson as a coach.

I nominate MJ for the greatest basketball mind as a player because of his ability to pick apart defenses, find a way to the basket and evolve his game to compensate for the effects of age. I nominate West as an executive because of his eye for talent, his ability to make deals that better the team. And I nominate Jax because of his ability to win a lot of games with rosters that aren't deep on paper, but function as a team. Granted, he's had two great tandems to work with, but he's been able to squeeze the most out of his role players.

If I'm only to pick one, then I'll have to think about it a little more.

.

Last edited by hmm on Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

A great idea for a topic, but a tough choice. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson might also be good candidates, though I have no argument with the individuals listed in the poll.

Can i ask why you didnt include "Larry Bird" ?

I originally had Pat Riley, Magic and Larry as options. But I didn't want to write that many profiles, so I had to cut it down. I didn't feel the resumes of those three matched up with some of the other people on the list. Instead, I opted for basically the best coach, the best player, the best GM, and a slew of other guys who I thought had a great case.

If you do feel that Magic, Larry or Pat should win, vote for the "Other" option...I mainly put it in there to cover cases like that.

If I may, I'd like to name three candidates in three categories.

Aw...Would you like some syrup with your waffle?

If I'm only to pick one, then I'll have to think about it a little more.

Please do...I think tough choices make for fun topics.

John Stockton has to get some love right? That guy was all brains! To be in the league as long as he was, you can't say it was necessarily his great shooting ability or blazing speed. John used his mind above all else to compensate for his lack of physical gifts.

Aw...Would you like some syrup with your waffle?

Aw man...OK, I'll come back to this one when I've got the time for more deliberation and a more detailed analysis.