Fixing the All-Star Game? (Thoughts on choosing the teams.)

[benji]

A lot of people complain about the All-Star voting, or the teams, etc. I personally have no problem with it, for all intents and purposes, it is working within the system designed, faults or not.

All these people complain, but never propose a better way to do it. Rambling to Jae I came up with two alternative systems.

Option One
The first, is to do away with the "fans pick five, coaches pick seven" system and simply let the fans votes decide all twelve guys. (Two centers, four forwards, four guards, two wildcards.) With a limit on two players per team.

Based on the last results, this year would be:
East:
C- Howard, Shaq
F- KG, LeBron, Bosh, Pierce, Yi*
G- Wade, Kidd, Carter, Arenas, Billups*

C- Yao, Amare
F- Duncan, Anthony, Dirk, Boozer
G- Kobe, McGrady, Iverson, Nash, Ginobili*, Paul*
*wildcards

Should these guys be the All-Stars, nah, but it's certainly lots of stars. And people the fans want to see, which is what really matters. Without limiting two players per team, Yi would be replaced with Ray Allen and Chris Paul replaced with Tony Parker.

Option Two
The other option, is simply have the top 24-30 players (based on fan votes) go to All-Star Weekend. The top two players (or top guy per conference) then pick teams from the pool of guys left. Fans could vote for a "twelve man" team or something else, in order to alter the voting.

There are a lot of fun possibilities with this one. Someone shitty gets into the game, and somehow someone winds up with them as their last pick. KG does something like taking all the point guards with his picks, screwing LeBron/Kobe who was adding players to win the game with. Does KG shun his new Celtics teammates for Tim Duncan, etc.? Does Kobe reunite with Shaq? Does he assemble a team that lets him win MVP, or assemble a team where he can take a backseat to prove a point?

The talking heads could debate it for months.

[LionelMessi#1]

I choose whichever option includes Shaq not playing and Chris Paul,Brandon Roy and Baron Davis playing.

[shadowgrin]

Option Two really looks fun but I doubt it will be helpful to the morale of the players last picked.

I like Option One better if it limits 3 player per team.
I still think Rasheed, Wallace, and Billups deserved their All-Star spot years ago when they were all in Detroit

[Andrew]

Of those two options, I'd prefer the first. The second one is an interesting idea that could shake things up a little but I think the first caters more to the idea of the All-Star game being an event for the fans, showcasing the best players in the league (who also tend to be the most popular more often than not). On the whole, the current model seems to work fine save for a couple of questionable selections here and there, and it could be argued that it would be boring if there wasn't a little controversy or debate to be had in that regard.

[benji]

Which is probably the whole generation of media complaints. The second team does allow the fans to pick the best players, not just who is on which team. It also allows for the "strategic" debates over who will pick who, which would allow for plenty of talking heads spewing crap.

[Lamrock]

I still prefer the current method.

[Chaser7]

Option One
The first, is to do away with the "fans pick five, coaches pick seven" system and simply let the fans votes decide all twelve guys. (Two centers, four forwards, four guards, two wildcards.) With a limit on two players per team.

Based on the last results, this year would be:
East:
C- Howard, Shaq
F- KG, LeBron, Bosh, Pierce, Yi*
G- Wade, Kidd, Carter, Arenas, Billups*

C- Yao, Amare
F- Duncan, Anthony, Dirk, Boozer
G- Kobe, McGrady, Iverson, Nash, Ginobili*, Paul*
*wildcards

Should these guys be the All-Stars, nah, but it's certainly lots of stars. And people the fans want to see, which is what really matters. Without limiting two players per team, Yi would be replaced with Ray Allen and Chris Paul replaced with Tony Parker.

So are you for or against limiting it to two players per team? I can't tell, since the Paul should be an All-star over Parker and Allen should be an All-star over Yi...

And I kinda agree with Lamrock, the system is fine as is. Sure there will always be snubs, but honestly there are just too many good players for everyone to go every year...

[BIG GREEN]

Option two has some merit...cause it would be nice if players weren't separated by conferences but that course would lead to dischord. Option one is good if there was actually a real problem with the all-star game.

Fans don't wanna see chris paul etc...so they didn't vote for them...simple as that. Instead of showing shitty teams on TV like the grizzles ....if they showed teams like Hornets...maybe people would vote for them.

[Sauru]

i had a nice long (benji would like that i think) post for this but the stupid server said it had too many connections when i clicked submit so i am gonna shorten it

out of the 2 listed options i like option 1 alot more. however i wouldnt mind seeing the voting turned over to the players/coaches/media/ whoever and let them pick 10 players and let the fans vote in 2 wild cards. just take the highest 2 vote getters that did not make the team through coach votes.

[benji]

Why would anyone want to give the coaches, and especially the media, a greater influence in anything? At least the fans just pick the "popular" people.

At least someone actually provides another proposal, instead of just whining about it. Thanks, Sauru.

[Drex]

Why don't they let the people pick just 4 guys (two for each conference) and let the media/coaches decide the other 20 guys? Kobe, Yao, Bron will start until they retire, but at least the whining about who's starting and who deserves it more would be over...right?

[benji]

Again, why do we want the media or coaches picking anything? The media are the people who vote for Jermaine O'Neal for MVP because he's nicer in interviews. The coaches are the people who decide teams need "representation" and send Wally Szczerbiak or Four Pistons to the game.

[Drex]

Then how the hell do you want to make All-star teams? Let the people pick? Then change the name to All-popular weekend and expand the voting to 12 guys, Dunk Contest and 3-Point Contest (actually, the last one seems kinda fun. Imagine a Big Ben vs Shaq)

[benji]

That is what the All-Star Game and Weekend is supposed to be, an exhibition for the fans.

Look at the list the fans would have picked if they made the teams this year with the two-player limit in effect. Aside from Yi, it is not that terrible.

I'd rather the fans send who they want to see, than we give the imbicles in the media even more power. They already decide all the awards at the end of the year, despite not showing any capability of doing it in a rational manner.

[Andrew]

Then how the hell do you want to make All-star teams? Let the people pick? Then change the name to All-popular weekend and expand the voting to 12 guys, Dunk Contest and 3-Point Contest (actually, the last one seems kinda fun. Imagine a Big Ben vs Shaq)

The way it's done now. Sometimes popularity will win out over season performance and sometimes a borderline All-Star will make it over someone who is perhaps more deserving because of the coaches' criteria (like making sure a certain team is represented, as Ben said). We usually end up seeing two teams where at least two thirds of the participants are deemed worthy of being there in most people's minds, so it works out pretty well in the end.

One minor adjustment that could be made would be that the five players selected by fan voting secure a spot on their respective All-Star team, but it's at the discretion of the coach as to whether they actually start. There's still going to be some grumbling about it being a popularity contest but depending on the coach's decision it might appease people who don't disagree that a player is worthy of being selected but disagree that a player should get the honour of starting.

[Drex]

But what if the coach selects a player from his team instead of another who's having a slightly better season? I mean, the bitching will never stop, no matter what it's done.

[Sauru]

usually coaches are not allowed to vote for thier team.

edit: another option would be to elect a panal to vote on all awards(do they have one already?) and have this panel not only pick mvp and most improved and whatever but also have them pick the all stars at the break. just another opinion, not saying it would be the best

[Andrew]

But what if the coach selects a player from his team instead of another who's having a slightly better season? I mean, the bitching will never stop, no matter what it's done.

As Sauru said, a rule preventing that is already in place. If a coach can't vote for their own players, there can't be any favouritism. You're right though; no matter what the method, there'll be complaints and players will be snubbed but that's always going to be the case when only there's only 12 spots per side to go around. Even if you expand the rosters to 15, chances are there'll still be one or two questionable selections and players who will get snubbed.

[Drex]

I wasn't talking about votes, I was talking about the starting five.

[Andrew]

In that case, replacements (and subsequently the starting lineups) could be determined by whoever came second in fan voting since such players are likely to have been named All-Stars by the coaches anyway. The league would then name his replacement on the bench. Some would still criticise the selection but the alternative would be to simply rely on the nominated coaches making the "right" decision in regards to the starting lineups.

[benji]

The best alternative, in my opinion, is still to make it entirely fan chosen, perhaps with a rule limiting number of players from one team. It is a game for the fans, the fans choose who they want to see.

Then the arguments about who "deserves" to go are dead. Who deserves to go? Who the fans want to see. And that is who goes.

[Sauru]

i am all for the fans voting for all 12 players. i used to hate the idea of fan votes, actually i still do, if they are only voting for the starters. i kinda like the all or nothing deal with fan voting

[Andrew]

Would such a ballot include all players in the league or only those who most would consider the more suitable candidates?

[Drex]

There's always write-in, Andrew

Count me for the "Fans voting for all 12 players" choice. Yi's not starting, so the whole argument of "OMFG, YAO MADE IT 'COZ HE'S CHINESE!!one1!!" went to hell.

[Andrew]

He didn't garner enough votes to be selected as a starter but who's to say he (or anybody else) couldn't get enough votes to be selected if we the fans are selecting all 12 players? Mind you, fans voting for all 12 players caters to the idea that we're picking the 12 players we want to see on each team so if a player is voted in under that system, so be it.