Proof that Steve Nash is the MVP..

[Axel]

Nash finished with 25 points and 8 assists tonight against the Lakers. The Suns still won despite 51 points from Kobe, being out rebounded, and outshot at the foul line.

Tonights win over the Lakers proves that Nash's playmaking abilities, along with being able to score when needed, are more vaulable than Kobe's huge scoring nights. His domination of the ball kept other players from getting involved, and is the reason he had over half the points for the team. Scoring does no good if you can't win the game...

I know some people would say that Phoenix has better role players, but I doubt that many people would have said that coming into this season.

[Rip32]

No, all it shows is that the Lakers are a one man team (which we all knew) and the Suns are a completly balanced offense and a contender.

[Axel]

No, what I am saying is that without Steve Nash, there would be no balanced offense, and the team would be just as bad as the Lakers without Kobe.

[gergerjai]

And your point is......?

[Axel]

And your point is......?

Phoenix has 10 more wins than LA with comprable lineups (excluding Kobe and Nash).

[TRUball]

In tonight's game:

Kobe Bryant: 51 points on 19-33 shooting (58%)
Lamar Odom: 17 points on 7-12 shooting (58%)
Other Lakers: 28 points on 11-37 shooting (30%)

If Kobe hadn't of dominated the ball, they would of lost by even more. Also, Kobe didn't even dominate the ball, did you watch the game? He brought it up, set up the offence passed it to someone, ran through the offence, and then Kobe would get it with ~10 seconds left on the shot clock, and have to create for himself, because his teammates couldn't hit jack.

You could argue that if he would of put more focus on waiting for the double teams and passing to the open man for the shot, it would of been better for the team. Guess what? He DID do that, except they weren't making the easy open shots, or they weren't shooting it and just gave it back to Kobe who had to try and bail them out for another time.

I just don't want Nash to win it again this year, if you compare this season to last years, he deserves it quite a bit more this year, but big deal, he won it already, give someone else the chance, I mean come on... the MVP is an individual award, Kobe is the greatest individual player in the NBA, and has the best individual season. Actually, screw all of the so called MVP candidates, give the award to Jason Kidd to make up for the year when they gave it to Duncan when he should of won it when he came to the Nets and brought them to the finals.

[J@3]

Comparable line-ups?

[rongotai]

LMFAO comparable lineups

[Axel]

LMFAO comparable lineups

You're saying that now, but if Steve Nash weren't there you wouldn't notice much of a difference. Diaw was only averaging 4 ppg in Atlanta over two seasons.. without Nash, his numbers would be close to that again this year. Perhaps a little higher alotting player improvement, but not the leap he has taken this year. Same goes for Barbosa, House, Jones and Tim Thomas.

None of these players were any better than the Lakers players before they started playing alongside Nash. They've since superceded them.

I'm not hating on the Suns if you get that impression... far from it.

[The_Flying_Tomato]

well nash's stats got better, he deserves it. No Amare? No problem. No Kurt Thomas? We can do this.

[benji]

Well, obviously if the Suns didn't have Nash and were instead starting Barbosa or House they'd be worse. Any team with a top three or THE BEST point guard in the league (depends on who you ask obviously) would be far worse without him.

As I pointed out in another thread, nobody's really taken a leap. Diaw's role has compeltely changed, while the other guys arne't having to dribble anymore.

Nash had 25 points nad 8 assists. That's 41-49 points. Barbosa had a hell of a game.

To say ONE GAME proves that Nash is the MVP is just silly. Almost as silly as the "if Nash won last year, he should definately win this year" argument. No. More silly.

[Nel]

I would attribute the development of guys like diaw, jones, barbosa, bell etc to the system of d'antoni. The suns takes more shot attempts than any other team in the nba and it means guys like diaw have more attempts at the basket. More shots more points. It also helps that nash is unselfish.

[rongotai]

LMFAO comparable lineups

You're saying that now, but if Steve Nash weren't there you wouldn't notice much of a difference. Diaw was only averaging 4 ppg in Atlanta over two seasons.. without Nash, his numbers would be close to that again this year. Perhaps a little higher alotting player improvement, but not the leap he has taken this year. Same goes for Barbosa, House, Jones and Tim Thomas.

None of these players were any better than the Lakers players before they started playing alongside Nash. They've since superceded them.

I'm not hating on the Suns if you get that impression... far from it.

Your a moron House and Jones etc thrive in the Suns system not just cause of Nash but because the style of play and the way they are allowed to just go out there and shoot and if you ever saw the Suns you would see Barbosa is a pure scorer and creates penertration off the dribble and gets to the hoop alot, Smush Parker signed a few 10 day contracts last season I mean that is already enough to say nash's supporting cast > Kobe's.

[Pera]

This is going on in Kobe's small brain:
-i wanna score,fuck the team i just wanna be the scoring champ give the ball and i will show you how selfish i am.I will not pass,i will not go to the bench i just wanna score.

This is going on in Nash's head:
-Pass the ball to a open teammate,this way we will win the game,just don't be selfish score only when needed no need to jack the ball and lose.

[J@3]

Please die.

[rongotai]

Classic thread

[dada]

I hate threads like these, they are so pointlesss.

[Keith Frazier]

In tonight's game:

Kobe Bryant: 51 points on 19-33 shooting (58%)
Lamar Odom: 17 points on 7-12 shooting (58%)
Other Lakers: 28 points on 11-37 shooting (30%)

If Kobe hadn't of dominated the ball, they would of lost by even more. Also, Kobe didn't even dominate the ball, did you watch the game? He brought it up, set up the offence passed it to someone, ran through the offence, and then Kobe would get it with ~10 seconds left on the shot clock, and have to create for himself, because his teammates couldn't hit jack.

You could argue that if he would of put more focus on waiting for the double teams and passing to the open man for the shot, it would of been better for the team. Guess what? He DID do that, except they weren't making the easy open shots, or they weren't shooting it and just gave it back to Kobe who had to try and bail them out for another time.

I just don't want Nash to win it again this year, if you compare this season to last years, he deserves it quite a bit more this year, but big deal, he won it already, give someone else the chance, I mean come on... the MVP is an individual award, Kobe is the greatest individual player in the NBA, and has the best individual season. Actually, screw all of the so called MVP candidates, give the award to Jason Kidd to make up for the year when they gave it to Duncan when he should of won it when he came to the Nets and brought them to the finals.

The MVP doesn't go to the best scorer in the NBA. It goes to the player that is most valuable to a contending team. Part of the reason for this is that before 1991, no player in NBA history had led the league in scoring and won the NBA Championship in the same year.

Its pretty obvious that you are not helping your team become great if you take all the shots. The only reason why Jordan was able to win and dominate at the same time was because he shot over 50% for most of his career including many 52-53% shooting seasons. Plus the fact that he had excellent shot selection and knew exactly when to involve his teammates.

Whereas players like Kobe, LeBron and Iverson don't do a good job of involving their teammates while scoring heavily. Even Wade has done a poor job of keeping his teammates involved (including Shaq) because his shot selection isn't always what it should be and too much one-on-one play prevents the offense from flowing.

These players are not being valuable to the cause of winning a championship but often hindering their teammates by stagnating the offense. Jordan and Phil Jackson found a way around this problem by running the Triangle to perfection and using Jordan in the post. None of the dominant swingmen since Jordan have been able to achieve this.

[J@3]

It goes to the player that is most valuable to a contending team.

I don't see any rules regarding the award about it. If people want to select the most valuable player for a "contender" (which is a load of garbage IMO, any play off team is a contender) then that's their thing, but it's not a requirement. It's generally common sense, but like Yohance has said in other threads too much importance is being put on being a "contender" (i.e, top 2 or 3 team).

Its pretty obvious that you are not helping your team become great if you take all the shots. The only reason why Jordan was able to win and dominate at the same time was because he shot over 50% for most of his career including many 52-53% shooting seasons.

When Jordan won the bulk of his championships (4 of them) he was shooting sub .500 for the season.

[Keith Frazier]

Everybody knows the Lakers, Cavs, Wizards, Grizzlies etc. have zero chance at winning the championship. They are not contenders.

Upsets are rare in the NBA Playoffs, and when you look back on history there are very few cases of teams with mediocre regular season records making it to the NBA Finals. In fact, I can only remember one such case - 1990s Houston Rockets.

[Axel]

To say ONE GAME proves that Nash is the MVP is just silly. Almost as silly as the "if Nash won last year, he should definately win this year" argument. No. More silly.

You're right, basing it on one game is silly. But this game is a replica of exactly what has happened all season long.

[DB]

Everybody knows the Lakers, Cavs, Wizards, Grizzlies etc. have zero chance at winning the championship. They are not contenders.

Upsets are rare in the NBA Playoffs, and when you look back on history there are very few cases of teams with mediocre regular season records making it to the NBA Finals. In fact, I can only remember one such case - 1990s Houston Rockets.

Contenders get rewarded with a championship! Great players with MVP's!

I believe that this year people will change theyre "15 points and 7 assists are mvp numbers if you play for a contender" criteria when picking the mvp...and Kobe Bryant will change that! Just put up amazing numbers and make the damn playoffs no matter if your 8 or 1 in the standings! IT'S A GODAMN INDIVIDUAL AWARD! For example, Michael Jordan was the best player in the LEAGUE and not just the best player on the best team. If they gave the award to Kobe or Lebron i would be very happy.



BTW, there was absolutly nothing negative about Kobe's great game yesterday (51 pts on 58% shooting) they just lost the game on DEFENCE!

[Axel]

I believe that this year people will change theyre "15 points and 7 assists are mvp numbers if you play for a contender" criteria when picking the mvp...and Kobe Bryant will change that!

[/quote]

Try 20 ppg, 10 assists, over 50% shooting and the leagues best FT%. Also factor in that Steve Nash is playing with people who coming into this season had done nothing in their professional careers worth noting.. (except maybe Marion)

[DB]

I believe that this year people will change theyre "15 points and 7 assists are mvp numbers if you play for a contender" criteria when picking the mvp...and Kobe Bryant will change that!

Try 20 ppg, 10 assists, over 50% shooting and the leagues best FT%. Also factor in that Steve Nash is playing with people who coming into this season had done nothing in their professional careers worth noting.. (except maybe Marion)

1- He would have been the MVP if Kobe and Lebron weren't playing THAT good. MAYBE.

2- John stockton averaged 17 points on 50% shooting & 14 assists and 3 steals per game for a big part of his career. Kevin Johnson 20 pts 10 assists 50% type of player, tim hardaway 22 points 10 assists,...and many others who have zero MVP's.

3- Nash deserved it once...but now people wanna give it to him? AGAIN? This season? A season where Kobe Bryant (breaking records of past MVP's, 81 pts, 62 in three, playoffs..) and Lebron James (putting up crazy all around stats, playoffs, ...) are having "historical" (or close too) seasons?? Let's not get carried away here Pls . (too late)

You don't have to agree tough.

[The_Flying_Tomato]

i find this thread hilarious. you're arguing that he's mvp, but the only ones that argue against you are homers and morons. Don't bother.