Kobe and Shaq: "The Early Years"

[John-John Joe]

The following is an excerpt from Phil Jackson's book "Mindgames" published in 2001.


Still, Jackson's initial disappointment over not getting Pippen led him to forecast a 5-5 start for his team in November. And that came before an October 13 injury forced Bryant to miss the first 15 games on the schedule. Yet even a setback such as Bryant's broken wrist proved to be a blessing. It allowed the coaches to mold the team indentity, then to add Bryant's frenetic energy to the equation in December, like some sort of super-octane fuel.

It would also allow time for the rift between Bryant and O'Neal to begin healing. On that issue, Jackson wasted little time. "I'm going to stop some of the gossiping, stop some of the rumormongering among the personnel here," he promised that first day.

At the time, Jackson and his coaches didn't realize just how deep a divide they faced. After the season, Winter would confide that he was shocked by the level of hatred O'Neal expressed for Bryant when the coaches first arrived on the scene. "There was alot of hatred in his heart," Winter said, adding that O'Neal didn't hesittate to vent his feelings in team meetings. "He was saying really hateful things," Winter explained. "Kobe just took it and kept going."

O'Neal's main message to anyone who would listen, including management, was that the team could not win a championship with Bryant. West had been strong in pushing aside O'Neal's desire to remove Bryant from the team, but there were signs that management had heard the message so often that they, too, entertained doubts. During the offseason, former O'Neal teammate Penny Hardaway had contacted O"Neal about joining the Lakers. The center jumped at the opportunity and phoned management. The implied message was that Bryant should be traded, but management declined that move.

During the season, as the coaches worked to heal the rift between the players, Winter explained that it had been clear that if the coaches' efforts didn't work that "a move would have to be made if they can't play together." The team wasn't about to trade the massive O'Neal, which meant that Bryant would have to go. Like West, though, the coaching staff saw Bryant as a Jordan-like player. His hands were smaller than Jordan's, but the athletic ability, the intelligence, the desire, were prodigious. what wasn't clear was whether Bryant would grow to possess the alpha male nature that made Jordan so dominant in his late twenties. Bryant was still so young, it was hard to evaluate him for that. He certainly possessed the work ethic and drive.

But Jackson put off the temptation to form a close relationship with Bryant. The coach correctly read that O'Neal's nature craved such a relationship, and Jackson turned just about all of his undivided attention to his relationship with O'Neal. The coach would later explain that the center did not have the same inquisitiveness as Jordan, and the conversations he had with O'Neal were not as expansive. Still, they spent much time talking. Early in the season, Bryant would point out that he had yet to sit down for an in-depth conversation with Jackson. Bryant kept expecting that conversation to occur. But it never would. Jackson kept his time for O'Neal. Some of the coaching staff pointed out that Bryant could have approached the coach about such a talk, but the young guard had such a strong sense of team issues that he seemed happy to let Jackson focus his efforts on soothing the center's harsh feelings.

For much of the healing between the center and the guard, Jackson and Winter relied on their triangle. The main idea was that because the offense wa so structured, it would make the relationship between O'Neal and Bryant smoother on the court, Still, the coaches found there was so much residual anger on the part of O'Neal and other veterans against Bryant that Jackson had to spend months counseling O'Neal on how to get over it. The danger, said Winter, was that O'Neal seemed to influence the entire team against Bryant. So he and Jackson worked regularly on changing that attitude. "The coaches voiced to us that they weren't seeing the same things we were seeing when they watched film and when they watched what was going on," Derek Fisher explained. "They didn't see the same selfishness or one-on-one play that we saw. What I tried to tell some of the other guys is that this is our fourth year now-me, Shaq, Robert, Rick, Trvis- so we still had issues that we had dealt with before this year."

And those issues were still cooking on the team agenda, Fisher said. "It was kind of similar to a relationship betweena man and a woman where you get upset with all of these things from the past that come up. That's really where alot of this stuff stemmed from. The coaches saw that alot of this stuff would come in due time. But we were so impatient because we felt we had dealt with it before." For a time, it seemed that no matter what Bryant did, O'Neal and other teammates wanted to find fault with it. Winter revealed that he finally put together a videotape to prove to O'Neal that Bryant was doing just what he was supposed to do. "Ithink Kobe is bending over backwards to get the ball in to Shaq," Winter would confide as the season progressed. "If there's a problem there- and I think we'll work it out- it's that I don't think Shaq appreciates what Kobe is trying to do to help his game."

And so it became easy for the coaches to take Bryant's early injury as a blessing. The guard's absence allowed the team's entire focus to fall upon O'Neal, which worked nicely into Jackson's plans. He had named O'Neal capatain and spent considerable time talking through a new approach to the game. Jackson wanted more leadership, conditioning, and defense out of O'Neal. As Winter explained, Jackson knew that O'Neal was motivated by scoring points, so he gave the ceneter more scoring opportunities as long as he fulfilled the rest of his obligations. Jackson also regularly called O'Neal's hand if he failed to do the right thing.

[SkipToMy_Lou]

Interesting read, you know where I can purchase this book?

I don't think I've seen it in Australia yet.

[John-John Joe]

Interesting read, you know where I can purchase this book?

I don't think I've seen it in Australia yet.

It's an excellent read Skip, I would suggest amazon books.com if you can't find it in your area. It definitely sheds light on alot of things concerning Shaquille and his feelings toward Kobe.

[J@3]

Phil Jackson, what a fucking tool

[Jowe]

Phil Jackson, what a fucking tool

Great deductive reasoning there Jae...


@SkipToMy_Lou if you can't find it at your bookshop, tell them to order it in for you It normally takes 1 week to come in.

[50first]

good read... all we need now is a book released from shaq, kobe, west, the coaching staff, and the rest of the laker players to get the full spectrum.

[Jay-Peso]

You can get books anywhere nowadays. Maybe not in stock but for sure order it from the bookstore as Jowe said or you can order online from basically anywhere.

[Steve04]

Shaq is a insecure little(or big, however you look at it) fool that needs the attention on him 100% of the time. It's no wonder Kobe hated Shaq, it's like having a big brother that you crave to be accepted by but at every turn he just puts you down over and over again. What do you do then? You strive to becme better, so that maybe being the best or better than him he will finally accept you. And seeing that it will never happen you strive to become greater than he so that you can inflict the same pain on him that he did on you. This is what we saw this past season. Kobe rose and became greater than Shaq in the grander scheme of things. Lakers management chose Kobe as Phil chose Shaq so many years ago. Karma is a bitch Shaq. Eat your just desserts in Miami.

[John-John Joe]

Here's more:


The Lakers would soon find that they didn't need Rodman. With the addition of Bryant, they would instead soar off to a winning streak. They would continue to show surprising poise over the coming weeks, losing a game to Sacramento before ripping off 16 straight wins that would carry them well into January. Finally they lost a January 14 game at Indiana's Conseco Fieldhouse - and just like that, the Lakers became unglued. Suddenly they found themselves in a 3-7 free fall, and all the old panic resurfaced. O'Neal's feelings against Bryant gained strength. Soon the players were again pointing fingers and blaming Bryant's desire for stardom as their problem. "We can't win with Kobe" was O'Neal's insistent message.

Winter though, saw the problem as nothing more than bad defense and maybe a touch of self-satisfaction in O'Neal. "We're getting broken down," the seventy-eight-year-old assistant coach said. "We've been vulnerable to penetration all year long, the high screen and roll. Kobe has a real tough time with it. So does Derek Fisher. And the side screen and rolls. That's most everybody's offense this day and age, especially against us." As for the chemistry issue, Winter said that the coaches were treading softly. "Most coaches, Phil included, have always sort of had a whipping boy," Winter explained. "And I think he's very careful not to have that become Kobe, because he realizes that he's got a great young player here and he doesn't want to squelch him too much. And yet he wants to control him."

The players had admired Jackson for sitting back and letting Bryant learn from his mistakes. But it soon became apparent to the coaches that many of the Lakers were also demanding that Bryant be disciplined. As for O'Neal, Winter said, "My main concern is that I don't want him to be satisfied with where he is. I want him to realize what he's doing wrong, even on the freethrows.......He's not easy to coach. He has kind of a resentment for anybody to tell him anything that he's doing wrong. He's not an easy guy to coach. I think Phil treads very softly on Shaq, Winter said. "I think he still is trying to read the situation as to what is the best way to motivate Shaq. I don't think he knows yet. And I certainly don't know."

Mainly, Jackson focused on encouraging O'Neal to put away his anger. The harsh feelings against Bryant could surge through the entire roster. It was an old problem, Rick Fox said. "The times that we've become frazzled and unraveled as a team it's been around situations where we embarrass ourselves." For so many years the Lakers had been screwing up in the playoffs. Swept by Utah. Dismissed by Utah. Swept by San Antonio. It became a part of their personality. But Jackson had helped them to a 67-win regular season. Suddenly hopes surged that their playoff troubles were behind them. The Lakers' coaches though wern't so sure. They were uneasy about how this fragile team would perform in the playoffs.

Sure enough, they struggled to put away Sacramento and Phoenix and Portland. A key win came in game 2 of their second-round series with Phoenix. Bryant hit a last-second shot to seal the victory. Nothing had to be said; the message had been clearly sent that this team could win a title with Bryant. As his first round film selection, Jackson showed his team "American History X", a dramatic rejection of hatred that ended by quoting Abraham Lincoln's call for healing parties to choose the better angels of their nature, clearly a message to O'Neal about the futility of deep dislike.

[John-John Joe]

Okay, here's a few excerpts from "Mad Game" The NBA Education Of Kobe Bryant published in the year 2000. Once again it offers a unique perspective on the beginnings of their realtionship and tenure as LA Lakers.



Perhaps the most telling factor in Kobe Bryant's first few weeks in pro basketball was the nickname affixed to him by Shaquille O'Neal, his seven-foot-one, 330 pound teammate. O'Neal had watched Bryant dunk in his early practices and had seen him basking in the media glow as reporters gravitated to him in the Lakers' locker room. So the big center had decided to call him "Showboat." Bryant sensed that it was not entirely a term of affection.......

O'Neal was a huge fun-loving man yet surpisingly sensitive to any criticism. After Del Harris was fired, the coach would tell associates that the center was perhaps too fun-loving, too much of a comedian , to be an effective team leader. He had a great sense of humor and loved to amuse himself and others with it. In his first season in Los Angeles, O'Neal used that humor to nudge Kobe toward being more of a team player. the center even composed a ditty, set to the tune of Greatest Love of All," aimed at Bryant. In the locker room, Shaq would croon: "I believe that Showboat is the future/Call the play and let that motherf*****r shoot......" He'd sing a verse, then come back with the next a little louder: "I BELIEVE THAT SHOWBOAT IS THE FUTURE......" Kobe wouldn't exactly fall in stitches at the derisive performance, but he wasn't thin-skinned about it either. they were simply different in their approach to life......."

Kobe saw how hard Fisher was working on his shooting and his conditioning. The one standard by which Bryant measured other players was how hard they worked. He had little regard for the people, no matter how talented, who refused to make the effort to get better. His first year in the league he had something of a phone relationship with Portland's Jermaine O'Neal, another teenage rookie, but Bryant soon cooled that friendship when he concluded that Jermaine O'Neal lacked work ethic as a player. Brynat himself liked to shoot 1,500 jumpshots each day. When he saw Fisher working hard, he was quick to encourage his effort and to compliment his improved shooting.

And that in turn led him to feel more comfortable in January 1999 when the opprotunity arose to play two-on-two with Fisher and Shaquille O'Neal and Blount. Since his days as a youngster battking with his father in one-on-one battles, Kobe had always been an extremely physical practice player, the kind of guy to use elbows, hip checks, hard box-outs or any other advantage to challenge opponents. After all, he and his father, who loved each other very much, could battle furiously yet remain emotionally detached after the conflict and even laugh about it. Kobe's Lakers teammates didn't approach the game the same way. The only one capable of battling Kobe and not getting upset was Eddie Jones, which meant that he and Kobe would have furious battles in practice yet never feel the need to carry it beyond that. "I'm gonna bust your a**," Kobe would tell Jones during their battles, which only drove the intensity higher. Other Lakers, however, harbored an intense dislike for Kobe because of the way he attacked practices.

Ideally, every Laker should have had Kobe's attitude toward competing and being physical in practice, Fisher said. "That really was the way we all should have been competing. With Kobe's spirit." It didn't work out that way, though. And the Lakers troubles in 1999 would begin with that January pickup session. More than five weeks later word would leak into the L.A. newspapers that Shaq had slapped Kobe during practice. the reports didn't detail when the incident happened or what was involved, butit would be cited as a sign of their growing dislike for each other. Fisher remember being amazed at tthose newspaper reports, because they came so long after the incident and because there had only been four people in the gyn at the time. Who had leaked news of the incident, he wondered.

"It had just been physical," Fisher recalled. "Both guys had gotten tired. Neither guy started it. It started from them both being physical." And the altercation itself didn't last long, but the repercussions did. "Some true feelings came out," Fisher said. "They didn't really sat all that much, but it was done in an extremely negative way. You could tell the guys had negative thoughts for each other." Worse yet, it was clear those feelings weren't going away any time soon, Fisher said. "It would always be remembered." One member of the Lakers staff said the situation happened because O'Neal wanted to make a point. "It sent a message but Kobe didn't receive it," the staffer said.........

[Stevan]

Skiptomy_Lou, if you're in Melbourne, you might wanna check out Borders books in Chadstone shopping centre. Their basketball books have shrinked somewhat in recent months, but there's still a few there, and I'm sure at one point or another they had Mad Game, Mindgames, and More Than a Game (which I bought). I also got a couple of other books there, The Jordan Rules, Shaq Talks Back, and Bird Watching (Larry Legend). If they don't have something in store I'm sure they can order it. Still wish I picked up that new Charles Barkley book while they had it!

[50first]

ones trying to make a point and the other believes he's the only one right. its like mixing oil and water. how they bared with each other for those years must have been a test of their wills... its hard to play with someone you love to hate.

[twolvezfanfoever]

Phil knows whats up

[Bill Russell]

Hey Dre, good read, post more excerpts (spl) if you can

[Fresh8]

Yo SkipToMy_Lou and anyone in Australia who wants to read that book... I read that book from the local library- maybe u should go and check it out to see if they have the book!

[Matthew]

I've read mad game and shaq talks back.. some of the criticisms for both players are unjustified, and some are legit. "Mad game" seems a bit to pro kobe, i got that message from the first chapter where the writer is talking up kobe as jordan not really being a challenge to kobe in a one on one game.. i don't like that kind of sensationalisim.

But this whole kobe/shaq thing.. i'm not saying it should be stopped being talked about, but im getting sick of hearing about it. I'd rather hear about the defending champs, Kobe and tmacs new roles, lebron and carmelo's "rivarly", kg and duncans real rivalry.. all we hear on sportscenter concerning the nba is shaq/kobe. and whats more interesting, is i dont think there is that much illfeelings towards each other.