M23 or K8@25

[Amphatoast]

Ok, my little silly friend once again brought up Kobe being better than Jordan..
We ended up comparing kobe and jordan at age 25, and he wants to know who do you guys think was bettert @ the age of 25, jordan or kobe? i kinda find it unfair since i think jordan was a rookie with he was 25? not sure but jordan was too young but still great by the numbers and overcame more than kobe has....jordan had to overcome all the bad talk about the bulls picking him and all the critisms he got when he first entered the league.
So who do you think was better @ 25 based on accomplishments?
Skills?
Leadership?

[Andrew]

The main difference is the championships, but the fact that Kobe entered the NBA aged 18, and joined a team that had already won 50+ games the previous season is significant. He became part of a team that was already a title contender, with other All-Star players including Shaq.

By the time MJ was 25, he did have some personal accomplishments to his credit, including:

2 scoring titles (1987, 1988)
1 steals title (1988)
First player to record 200+ steals and 100+ blocks in a season
1 NBA MVP
1 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
1 All-Star MVP
1 NBA Rookie of the Year
2 Slam Dunk Championships (which, mind you, are basically irrelevant)
A playoff record 63 points vs Boston
4 straight playoff appearances (once advancing to the second round) on teams that were nowhere near as good as any Laker squad that Kobe has been part of.

He was also scoring a lot of points, shooting a high percentage in a league with some tough competition (especially when it came to big men). His other numbers weren't too bad either.

Just out of interest, in what way does your friend claim Kobe to be better than Michael Jordan, and what proof does he offer?

[PRoPuLsiOnDJ]

I think at age 25, Kobe is definitely better than Jordan. But Jordan is definitely better in his prime. However, I think Kobe still hasn't reached his prime and I believe that he will be higher than Jordan's level once he does reach his prime.

Yeah I understand that Jordan had to overcome a lot of difficulties. But wasn't Kobe 18 when he entered the draft?? How much criticism did the Lakers get for trading Vlade for Kobe in his rookie year? Trading your veteran for an unproven kid out of high school?? I think he proved a lot of people wrong. He was one of the leaders who brought a whole new revolution of high school players into the NBA. Now if u talk to high school players, all of them hope to be like Kobe someday.

And do you think it's easy to do well in a team full of all stars??? Let me remind you, the Lakers had Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Shaq, and even Campbell was pretty good. Do you think it was easy for Kobe to become one of the primary options while playing with these guys? He barely played 15 mins per game in his rookie year.

Jordan had the green light in his rookie year and he was allowed to play a lot of minutes. And yes he was more experienced in his rookie year than Kobe. But at age 25, Kobe's seen more and done a lot more than Jordan (at age 25). Jordan was in the league for maybe 3 or 4 years. Kobe's been in the league for 8 years and he has 3 titles under his hand. And he's still 25!!!

But honestly, I believe that there is no way to prove who is better (unless you can turn back time and have them face off). This is all a bunch of what if's. But if we're talking about experience, then Kobe definitely has a lot more experience. And he's been through a lot more too (referring to the trial that is going on) ... not to mention that he's performed at the highest level possible while living through the most horrifying moment of his life.

[Fresh8]

I have to admit that Jordan was better at 25 individually but Kobe has three rings....which means Jordan accomplished more as a player...Kobe achieved more with his team

But everyone needs to remember that MJ went to Carolina...Kobe came outa high school...Kobe's been playing since he was a baby...MJ played..strarted...when he was entering high school? So I guess their even with talent? But MJ was more of a natural!

Kobe was taught how to play by his dad...MJ was a starter on a Carolina team with already 2 NBAer's to be (When he was a freshman)...Doesnt this kinda mean MJ was coached and more experienced....even though at his age Kobe was training with a squad of NBA players but this doesnt mean much cause MJ got PT!

MJ played with a crappy team...Kobe played with a championship team and under a champion coach...There's the catch...if Jordan had played with Jax at the start...cause Kobe only won playing under Jax...could MJ have won a ring in his second year?

So in the end I reakon that MJ's awards mean nothing cause without the awards Jordan would still be the better player! I hate to admit but MJ, afterall, is the G O A T !!!

Anyway- who thinks when MJ was in his prime and when Kobe will be?
Age=28 maybe?

[patrixxx73]

The records speaks for itself! Hands down, It's gotta be Jordan over Kobe! Besides, Jordan carried the whole team on his shoulder even on his rookie years, whereas Kobe is just a bench boy trying to learn from the veterans; and considering that the Chicago Bulls were not a good team before Jordan came to them!

[The Game]

whereas Kobe is just a bench boy trying to learn from the veterans; and considering that the Chicago Bulls were not a good team before Jordan came to them!

why dont you consider that kobe was a kid coming straight out of high school.... jordan was a college star.. of course he would start...

[Jackal]

Jordan.

Was that hard?

[Alex Italo]

Jordan. No doubt.

Kobe may have 3 rings but he was just the sidekick in this titles... Jordan didn't have "you know who" in the middle... He always was the main man.

[.]

jordan had to overcome all the bad talk about the bulls picking him and all the critisms he got when he first entered the league.

You think Kobe didnt have that? The Lakers traded away their starting center to get a High School player, he and the team also got all the critisism about this bad trade.

Skills: Its very close, Kobe had some things that MJ didnt have, and MJ had some things that Kobe didnt have. I think Kobe is a better 1 on 1 player then Jordan was and is better at creating off the dribble. While MJ has the better explosivness in his 1st step, and could get past his defenders by quickness alot easier then Kobe. Kobe has the better 3-point shot then Jordan ever had, while MJ was a more consistent Fieldgoal shooter, and knew when to stop shooting when he is missing. I give Jordan the edge on this one, however....if we would compare Jordan and Kobe on the age of 24, I would give Kobe the edge.

Leadership: Kobe still didnt get the chance to show his leadership, so I have no choice but to give Jordan the edge, we will have to wait for that.

In overall, MJ has accomplished more then Kobe did, and is proven a better leader so I give him the edge.

However, I do not think Kobe has reached his prime yet, so we will see if he can get past him in the future.

[cklitsie]

Jordan all the way.

[hmm]

it cant be decided guys. Why ? Because Kobe didnt reach his prime yet.And second he is playing in a team that he is the 2nd guy.Lets see him as the 1st guy and on his prime.Then it may be decided who is better.
if you have to compare them anyway imagine Shaq prime on Bulls and then think about MJ.

[twolvezfanfoever]

It wont even matter,even if Kobe gets in his prime.I think he's already there though.Jordan took an average team to 6 championships.Kobe has had the most dominant player to help him win 3 championships.Like someone said earlier,he came on to a team that had a winnin record.Chicago sucked when Jordan came on.It dont matter if Jordan came from college and Kobe came from high school.Plus,Jordan played some monster defense.Kobe is a good defender,but he hasnt been defensive player of the year yet.Once he takes a bad team to the top,at least twice.You can actually start comparing him to MJ.But he aint even on his level yet.Hell,Im gonna be bold enough to say that the Lakers really didnt even need him to win their 3 championships.They had Shaq and some good role players.Thats my opinions.I say Kobe is about 30% of what Jordan was.And remember MJ never got into that much legal trouble!! Even though that dont really matter.He might not get the chance to prove himself

[Amphatoast]

Just out of interest, in what way does your friend claim Kobe to be better than Michael Jordan, and what proof does he offer?

3 rings, 6 all start appearance, 1 all star MVP
haha he doesn't have much to support kobe.

Now if u talk to high school players, all of them hope to be like Kobe someday.

question for you-
What number does LeBron James wear?
What does that number mean in terms of great basketball players?

[twolvezfanfoever]

Kobe-3 rings (with shaq),6 all stars appearances,1 all star mvp
dats its

MJ-6 rings (should of been more),14 all star apperances,3 all star mvp,5 regular season mvp,6 finals mvp,defensive player of the year,Olympic gold

I can go on forever if I wanted to,Kobe might match his all star appearances,he should get one MVP,I doubt he'll ever get DPOY

I know awards and stats dont mean alot,but thats credibility.But Kobe gotta put a team on his shoulders though

[PRoPuLsiOnDJ]

We can say whatever we want to say ... but remember, this is all what if's ... there is no way to prove who is better at 25. Both players played in different eras. When Jordan played, the league didn't have the zone defense, nor did it have the defensive prowess it has today. So we never would know how much Kobe would average if he was playing in the late 80's. And unless we see him as the main player in one team, it is not fair to compare him "leadership" wise to Jordan. Although, Jordan was a better vocal leader (no doubt). But right now, If Jordan (age 25 or any other age) were to play in a team with him as the "only" main guy, then I don't see him winning championships. The league is a lot tougher defensively now. But like I said before, there is no way to compare them. They play in different eras. Only way to do it is if you can turn back time.

Quote:
Now if u talk to high school players, all of them hope to be like Kobe someday.


question for you-
What number does LeBron James wear?
What does that number mean in terms of great basketball players?

Which player did Lebron hope to turn out like in the NBA???
Kobe Bryant is a success story coming out of high school. Every high school player (including Lebron) hopes to have their professional career turn out like Kobe's. (Not just Kobe ... but also Garnett, McGrady, O'neal, and now James)

[air gordon]

jordan had to overcome all the bad talk about the bulls picking him and all the critisms he got when he first entered the league.

You think Kobe didnt have that? The Lakers traded away their starting center to get a High School player, he and the team also got all the critisism about this bad trade.

hardly. "coincidentally" the lakers signed one shaquille o'neal away from the orlando magic that same offseason

[PrpleHayz]

Since when did All-Star MVP's become a plus to your career??? Hey Kobe you had the sweetest alley-oops heres the trophy.
Jordan hands down is better 63 in the garden??? my lord he carried that team hes tmac with better D and actually WINNING!
Why does everyone keep talking about Kobe hasnt reached his prime yet?? YES HE HAS he was much better last year then this year and probably better the year before that

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
98-99 LAL 50 50 37.9 .465 .267 .839 1.10 4.20 5.30 3.8 1.44 1.00 3.14 3.10 19.9
9-00 LAL 66 62 38.2 .468 .319 .821 1.60 4.70 6.30 4.9 1.61 .94 2.76 3.30 22.5
00-01 LAL 68 68 40.9 .464 .305 .853 1.50 4.30 5.90 5.0 1.68 .63 3.24 3.30 28.5
01-02 LAL 80 80 38.3 .469 .250 .829 1.40 4.10 5.50 5.5 1.48 .44 2.79 2.90 25.2
02-03 LAL 82 82 41.5 .451 .383 .843 1.30 5.60 6.90 5.9 2.21 .82 3.51 2.70 30.0
03-04 LAL 65 64 37.6 .438 .327 .852 1.60 3.90 5.50 5.1 1.72 .43 2.63 2.70 24.0


His points fg%,3pt%,Reb, and Asts have gone down since previous years

KOBE HAS REACHED HIS PRIME HOMIES

[VMS]

homies? lol...

Didn't you have a thread like this on a greater scale called new school vs old school or something? That was a great post man, but here is my indepth opinion on this...

MJ > Kobe

Kobe is the better guard. Yes, I said it. Kobe is way better from the outside, but fails in comparison to MJ's ability at the point, and no one has a mid-range like his Airness. Although Kobe is phenomenal in the air, he's no MJ. After all, how many people became #8 because of Kobe? I can name atleast 50 that became #23 because of Micheal.

It's really no contest.

[Carmo]

Since when did All-Star MVP's become a plus to your career??? Hey Kobe you had the sweetest alley-oops heres the trophy.
Jordan hands down is better 63 in the garden??? my lord he carried that team hes tmac with better D and actually WINNING!
Why does everyone keep talking about Kobe hasnt reached his prime yet?? YES HE HAS he was much better last year then this year and probably better the year before that

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
98-99 LAL 50 50 37.9 .465 .267 .839 1.10 4.20 5.30 3.8 1.44 1.00 3.14 3.10 19.9
9-00 LAL 66 62 38.2 .468 .319 .821 1.60 4.70 6.30 4.9 1.61 .94 2.76 3.30 22.5
00-01 LAL 68 68 40.9 .464 .305 .853 1.50 4.30 5.90 5.0 1.68 .63 3.24 3.30 28.5
01-02 LAL 80 80 38.3 .469 .250 .829 1.40 4.10 5.50 5.5 1.48 .44 2.79 2.90 25.2
02-03 LAL 82 82 41.5 .451 .383 .843 1.30 5.60 6.90 5.9 2.21 .82 3.51 2.70 30.0
03-04 LAL 65 64 37.6 .438 .327 .852 1.60 3.90 5.50 5.1 1.72 .43 2.63 2.70 24.0


His points fg%,3pt%,Reb, and Asts have gone down since previous years

KOBE HAS REACHED HIS PRIME HOMIES

You show me his fg attempts and I might start to believe you. Oh and isn't there something else....................let me see......................oh yeah all the other things on his mind like sexual assault cases against him!

Kobe has defininitely not reached his prime! He will get better and there is no doubt about it! (Unless he is in jail)

[magius]

frankly, this comparison is an insult to jordan. their is no question that jordan was and is better than kobe ever has been or is at the moment, and in my opinion forseeably can be. doesnt this belong in the kobe thread?

Let's get this straight I am neither a fan of jordan or kobe, I don't hate them, I don't love them, I know one is great and one is good. if anyone says that kobe is better than jordan remember to add them to your list of people with no credibility when assessing a situation involving the word "kobe". its that simple. They would probably say that kobe could pull monkeys out of his ass if you asked.

[Stevan]

LOL Magius, well said

Kobe took 5 fewer field goals this season than last, and made 3 less (roughly). It's true he has had a tough year. But all the bullshit aside, you guys know who I'm voting for.

[Andrew]

Yeah I understand that Jordan had to overcome a lot of difficulties. But wasn't Kobe 18 when he entered the draft?? How much criticism did the Lakers get for trading Vlade for Kobe in his rookie year? Trading your veteran for an unproven kid out of high school??

It was a gutsy move, granted. But one of the reasons they traded Vlade was to get a little more salary cap relief; relief that allowed them to sign a certain 7'1" 303 lb (at the time) centre to a $120 million contract over 7 years.

And do you think it's easy to do well in a team full of all stars??? Let me remind you, the Lakers had Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Shaq, and even Campbell was pretty good. Do you think it was easy for Kobe to become one of the primary options while playing with these guys? He barely played 15 mins per game in his rookie year.

He didn't lead them back from the basement though. Chicago went from third last in the league to eighth in the East with the addition of MJ in 1984.

Jordan had the green light in his rookie year and he was allowed to play a lot of minutes. And yes he was more experienced in his rookie year than Kobe. But at age 25, Kobe's seen more and done a lot more than Jordan (at age 25). Jordan was in the league for maybe 3 or 4 years. Kobe's been in the league for 8 years and he has 3 titles under his hand. And he's still 25!!!

Again, Kobe has all these accomplishments by such a young age in part because:

- He entered the NBA at age 18
- He joined a team that was already a title contender, with a dominant big man

This placed him in a position to be on a winning team from a young age. Most importantly, he did not lead his team back from the NBA basement to an NBA title. The fact that he jumped straight out of high school accounts for his accomplishments at such a young age.

Until Kobe can lead a team without Shaq, calling him better than MJ at any point of his career is to greatly underestimate not only Michael Jordan, but also Shaquille O'Neal. With Shaq still demanding a trade, it's likely we'll see more arguments and statistics that we can use in comparisons of MJ and Kobe.

[Old School Fool]

They both Won Dunk Contests....They are both Clutch...

Kobe is kinda like Jordan...

[.]

jordan had to overcome all the bad talk about the bulls picking him and all the critisms he got when he first entered the league.

You think Kobe didnt have that? The Lakers traded away their starting center to get a High School player, he and the team also got all the critisism about this bad trade.

hardly. "coincidentally" the lakers signed one shaquille o'neal away from the orlando magic that same offseason

That was weeks after the draft. all the critisism started since he announced that he would skip college.

[Fresh8]

Did anyone understand???

I'll ask you guys a question...DID KOBE?MJ WIN A RING WITHOUT JAX AS COACH???

No- I dont think so...so maybe you shouldnt be comparing championships...