Greatest SF ever?

[EGarrett]

Here's something I was thinking about.

Who is the All-Time Greatest Small Forward?

I assume that the candidates are Larry Bird, Julius Erving and Scottie Pippen.

It's obviously tough to argue such a vague question, so here are a few categories to consider?

1. Who would you want to have the ball in their hands with 10 seconds left on the clock and your team down by one? (Assuming all were on an average night in the prime of their career)

2. Who would you want just to get your team to the playoffs? (Assuming all were on an average night in the prime of their career)

3. If all three were fresh out of college, and knowing what you know...who would you draft as the first pick for your expansion franchise?

4. Who do you consider to be the best statistically?

5. Who would win if they played a series of one-on-one games against each other? (Average night, prime of their career)

And of course...whoever is the answer to most of those questions is pretty much the best. If you answer other, remember to specify your choice in your post. And for the purposes of this discussion, Kevin Garnett is not a small forward.

[Vins15]

probably Bird..he's a tall SF..he has good handles and he can really shoot..which is a definate advantage over Dr.J knowing he will probably drive...so teh defense can force him to shoot...Pipen is a good shooter but not as deadly as Bird can be..

1.Bird
2.probably Erving cuz he can rili drive to teh basket plus its a one on one so he'll have the advantage there..
3.still Bird..in my mind best SF there ever was..

[The Big Racist]

Bird played alot at PF so I take him as a PF.
Pippen is the greatest SF,he was able to surprise you with 30 points,15 rebounds and 10 assists.

[Boyk]

I prolly woulda said Grant Hill if his career wasnt de-railed with injuries.

But in this case, i'd say Dr. J then Pippen

Bird played more power forward i thought

[Stevan]

tough question...

personally I don't see how Bird could have played that much PF with Parish and Mchale up front.

I don't know much about Dr J apart from him being a very athletic, somewhat tough, fierceless penetrator and open floor specialist.

Which player you take depends very much on who their team mates are going to be, or who they were. Bird probably needed (and had) good post players while Pippen and Dr. J could create, and do it out of nothing. Pip could change the game defensively while Bird was mentally unbreakable, probably one of the smartest and most instinctive players ever.

In the end if I were starting a franchise from scratch and taking a player who I assumed would play for my team atleast 10 years effectively with a winning record I would probably take Pippen to be the main man - for his defensive ability, being able to guard effectively 3 or 4 positions and having the versatility offensively to play 3 or 4. His offensive game was sufficient, and you could build around him and create a flexible roster. Pippen could be surrounded by shooters and role players, with no need for much of post threat as was proven in 93-94. This in my opninion would be an easier roster to build than one surrounding Bird. Bird did make his Celtic team mates better, but they were already good. With Larry Bird you probably need the post presence (unless he is the post presence in which case you need another shooter or two) a primary ball carrier/play maker/penetrator, and you can't stick Bird on the other teams best scorer from 1-3 and sometimes 4 unlike with Pip.

This may sound strange, but by a whisker, I would say Bird is the best small forward ever, and still take Scottie Pippen if I was in charge of a lottery type team. Larry Bird just seemed to provide something you couldn't measure statistically. He was a winner and though he was on very talented teams which made him look good as much as he made them look good, you have to respect a man who played most of his career on a bad back and had the career he had in a body with physical limitations not faced by Pip or Dr. J.

[PRoPuLsiOnDJ]

larry bird ... he is probably top 5 or 6 of all time.
he literally carried his team on his back and delivered at the most unexpected times.
the guy just doesnt miss when he shoots.
without a doubt, he has to be best SF of all time.

[benji]

personally I don't see how Bird could have played that much PF with Parish and Mchale up front.

McHale was actually a reserve until about 1985. Won two 6th mans and all. So Bird started some games at PF early on.

I have no problem listing Bird as SF though. When I rank players for all-time, I just use C, F, and G instead of PF, SF, SG and PG.

Pippen is the greatest SF,he was able to surprise you with 30 points,15 rebounds and 10 assists.

When Bird did it wasn't a surprise, you were used to it. 1984-85 Bird: 28.7ppg 10.5rpg 6.6apg...87-88: 29.9ppg 9.3rpg 6.1apg...

I give Bird the nod as best SF in history. Erving makes a case, but no.

One of the greatest playoff series of all time, 1981 Eastern Finals. Celtics vs. Sixers. Seven Games. MVP Erving vs. Sophomore Bird. Five of the seven ames decided by one or two points. Both teams 60-22, split season series 3-3, Celtics won season finale over Sixers to get homecourt. Year before, Boston 61-21, Sixers 5-23, met in Finals, Rookie Bird and the Celtics taken down in five.

For the season:
Bird: 21.2ppg 10.9rpg 5.5apg
Erving: 24.6ppg 8.0rpg 4.4apg

For the series:
Bird: 26.7ppg 13.4rpg 7.8apg
Erving: 19.9ppg 5.9rpg 4.1apg

Elliott Kalb goes: Bird/(Baylor)/Erving/Barry/Havlicek/Pippen

I find myself in agreement except for one key point. If we list KG at SF, he moves before Erving.

[Ben-le-ouf]

Larry Bird is the best SF of all time !
While there were also excellent players(Parish, McHale) in Boston, Bird was still the leader. He's (one of) the best shooter(s) of all-time. Not only at 3Pt shootout contest, he always made great shots in the money time. He was also 'strong-minded' a little like jordan. Definitely a winner. The best SF ever.

[GloveGuy]

Bird did make his Celtic team mates better, but they were already good. With Larry Bird you probably need the post presence (unless he is the post presence in which case you need another shooter or two) a primary ball carrier/play maker/penetrator, and you can't stick Bird on the other teams best scorer from 1-3 and sometimes 4 unlike with Pip.

I believe that when Bird came to the Celtics, they were a sub-500 team the year before, and it was him that sparked one of the best(if not the best, I forget) single season turnarounds in NBA history. The Celtics were at the bottom of the Atlantic in 1978-79 and at the top of the East the following year, Bird's rookie season.

If we list KG at SF, he moves before Erving.

Very rarely would you see this. KG might be able to play all five positions but admit it, he's a power forward for life. Just like how Bird is a small forward. Maybe he played a little power forward, much like how Magic played some power forward, or Hill played some point, but he's still a small forward.

[Colin]

Larry Bird for all questions. His only weakness was probably defence, I don't know a whole lot about him though since he was before my time. I know he was a good stealer but probably wasn't physically quick enough to contain quicker players, although his brains might tell him where the guy was going so The only question I hesitated at was the one-on-one, Pippen might take that because he's such a good defender.
But Larry played in an epic of a game in his last college year, Pippen wasn't anywhere near as good, and Erving, I don't know. I pick Bird out of college.
Bird has made so many amazing shots with the clock winding down, and created shots for others if he was covered (not like anybody covering him could stop him.)
I take Bird again to get me to the playoffs since he had such a well-rounded game.
Bird for best statically since again, he had such a well rounded game. Looks at teh stats benji posted then add in good numbers in steals.
Bird, Bird, Bird.

[air gordon]

imo i think the answers to the first 4 questions are no brainers. and for the 5th, bird all the way if fouls were not taken into account. as excellent a help side defender he was, he was nowhere near that as an individual defender. i can see bird getting burned by both erving and pippen constantly then just delivering hard fouls each time.

while there are certain aspects of pip's and erving's game i would choose over his, larry legend is the best sf and one of the biggest badasses of all time to me

[magius]

for the first 4 questions i pick bird, and the last i pick pippen because he can guard bird efficiently, while bird can only guard pippen marginally. bird was still a good defender due to his basketball iq, but i dont see him containing pip's quickness too often. best all time? thats a tough one, but i'll probably pick pip because most games he'll get his points and statistics, but he'll also prevent an opposing star player from getting his. basically, my logic is that if you score 20 and hold your opponent to 10 its better than scoring 25 and holding him to 20.

[Andrew]

As much as I'd like to say Pip, I think I'll have to go with Bird. I would want him to have the ball with 10 seconds left, I'd pick him as the main man and the guy to take my team to the playoffs, and I consider him the best player of the three statistically. As far as one-on-one contests go, they might be fairly even. I'll pick Bird for the same reason as crawford4MIP4real.

I apologise for the brief post, but I really don't have anything else to add at the moment. Everyone who posted in favour of Bird so far has pretty much summed up my point of view for me.