michael jordan @ www.nba.com/history

[j.23]

his profile is up.. check it out it's pretty cool

[Jackal]

Michael Jordan

By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time -- although a summary of his basketball career and influence on the game inevitably fails to do justice to the man. A phenomenal athlete with a unique combination of grace, speed, power, artistry, improvisational ability and an unquenchable competitive desire, Jordan single-handedly redefined the NBA superstar.

I don't think that this man can be summarised in a better fashion. What he did for not only the NBA but the sports channel in general, is simply amazing, I doubt any other person in sports is as recognised as "Air Jordan". I, for one, am very very gratefull that I could see this man play. The NBA players who have played beside him, should be even more honoured, even if he whooped their asses...amazing.

That word explains it all IMHO.

Greatest player, until someone else surpasses his accomplishments, he's the greatest player to play the game according to me.

[Matthew]

I agree, definately 100%. The thing that I really look at as to why he was the best is he was so far above the competeion... no one was close to him in any regard. He is the reason I am a basketball fan today. The NBA has the best athletes, and Michael Jordan was the best nba player ever

[benji]

Greatest player, until someone else surpasses his accomplishments, he's the greatest player to play the game according to me.

Wilt owns 56 regular season records, Jordan only 4; Wilt has 119 50+ point games, MJ only 30; Wilt led the league in assists, fg%, minutes and rebounds 29 times, MJ 0. Wilt dominated the game like no other. His first year in the league he set rebouding and scoring records that NO other player has broken. In the 1961-62 season he averaged 50.4 ppg. Wilt won seven scoring titles, 11 rebounding titles, and led the league in minutes played 8 times. He averaged over 45 minutes per game every game of his career. In 1967-68 he led the league in assists, something Jordan has never came close to doing. Chamberlain holds the records for points scored in a season and a game (100), rebounds in a game (55), season, and career., as well as minutes played in a season (he averaged 48.5 min/game in 1961-62), and field goal percentage in a season (72.7%).

[PoliceLineDoNotCross]

Wilt owns 56 regular season records, Jordan only 4; Wilt has 119 50+ point games, MJ only 30; Wilt led the league in assists, fg%, minutes and rebounds 29 times, MJ 0. Wilt dominated the game like no other. His first year in the league he set rebouding and scoring records that NO other player has broken

wilt is also friggin huge compared to michael.

[DrNick]

we are talking about who is the best nba player and not who would win if Wilt n jordan went one on one.

i personally think wilt is the greatest nba player.


jordan is really god dam good but we never saw him average 50 ppg or throw down 100 points in one game.

[Matthew]

Wilt owns 56 regular season records, Jordan only 4; Wilt has 119 50+ point games, MJ only 30; Wilt led the league in assists, fg%, minutes and rebounds 29 times, MJ 0. Wilt dominated the game like no other. His first year in the league he set rebouding and scoring records that NO other player has broken. In the 1961-62 season he averaged 50.4 ppg. Wilt won seven scoring titles, 11 rebounding titles, and led the league in minutes played 8 times. He averaged over 45 minutes per game every game of his career. In 1967-68 he led the league in assists, something Jordan has never came close to doing. Chamberlain holds the records for points scored in a season and a game (100), rebounds in a game (55), season, and career., as well as minutes played in a season (he averaged 48.5 min/game in 1961-62), and field goal percentage in a season (72.7%).

So wilt had 4 or 5 good seasons, in an ameuter league back then, and he only walked away with 2 rings. Lets have a look at MJ's accomplishments:
10 all nba 1st team selections
9 all defensive first team selections
7 straight scoring titles (and 3 more in 96-98)
6 time world champion
6 finals mvps
5 league mvps
3 all star game mvps
2 gold medals
defensive player of the year and led the league in scoring in the same year.
Highest career scroing average of all time
Highest scoring average for a single finals series (1993)
Highest playoff scoring average of all time
Highest all star scoring average as well
2 100 block, 200 steal seasons in his career
29 triple doubles
43 + ppg in the series against boston in 1986 when boston was the best in nba.
842 straight games of double digit scoring
Won the mvp for the regular season, finals and all star game in the same season, twice (96 and 98).

But then.. this isnt about numbers. Its about impact. He made basketball what it is today through his dominance and skill... he made casual basketball fans interested.. he impacted sports the world over... and he dominated so well that he caused an era of greats (barkley, ewing, stockton etc) never got their rings.

Michael Jordan- the greatest athlete of all time

[Jackal]

Ok, I take back my words of accomplishments, let me put it this way. MJ impacted basketball as no other athlete will. Wilt didnt do that, now did he? Statistically Wilt might be great, his numbers prove it, but I never saw Wilt play and if he was the greatest player ever to play, I think people would say he's the greatest, yet people tend to say MJ is the greatest...weird eh?

MJ was/is great becuz of many different reasons, one of them being his statistics. Other reasons MJ is seen as the greatest player ever, is becuz of the things he did when it counted most. Wilt scored all those points, grabbed all those rebounds, but lost crucial games. Forgive me, but I dont think anyone has drained more buzzer beaters then Mr. Jordan. I don't think Wilt broke as many hearts, as MJ did. I don't think Wilt had a problem beating guys, look at the man, he's huge. Micheal Jordan beat guys like Patrick Ewing, he broke their hearts year in and year out. He did it to greats like Malone, Stockton, Ewing and many many more.

Funny thing is, MJ did it on a consistant basis. Wilt was good, but look at his competition, a few dudes who didnt even match his height or his weight, from this standpoint, I say once again, and as NBA itself has established, Micheal Jordan, is the greatest player to play the game of basketball...ever. Wilt played well, but put him in Micheal's time, he would have been just a tad better than Olajuwan and the others. You've got to be kidding me if you dont see how great Michael Jordan is. His charisma, his attitude, his humbleness, his everything just makes him the greatest.

Forgive me for sounding like someone who follows others around, but millions of people believing MJ is the greatest player, cant be too far off track, now can they?

[Matthew]

You have legitimate points so dont think you "just follow others around". But I guess MJ didnt sleep with 20 000 women so mj isnt the best

[GloveGuy]

Phycho, you bring up great points, and I too believe that Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time. That is my opinion and I'll tell you this, Ben is probably the last person who you can get to change his opinion on Michael NOT being the greatest. Don't even bother...

[Andrew]

Wilt has 119 50+ point games, MJ only 30

MJ does have more 50+ point games in the postseason though (8 to Wilt's 4).

Wilt dominated the game like no other.

True, but one cannot ignore that he was 7-1, 275 lbs, in a league where there were more six foot guards than seven foot centres. He had such a huge size advantage on his opponents. Certainly, he possessed great skills and athleticism, but he had such a great natural advantage in his size, too. It's doubtful he could have averaged 22.9 rebounds per game over his career had he played in the same era as Jordan.

The nature of the game (more shots, more physical, no offensive goaltending) must also be taken into account. The season Wilt averaged 50.4 ppg, he attempted almost 40 field goals per game. 40 field goals per game! That wouldn't happen today.

Now, obviously Wilt needed the skills to score as much as he did. But he had the opportunity to set those marks.

Take his 100 point game for example. He shot 36/63 from the field, and 28/32 from the free throw line. No other player has attempted 60 or more field goals in a single game. Combine skills with opportunity, and you're going to get awesome results.

Consider some of MJ's career highs: 27/49 field goals (vs Orlando) and 26/27 free throws (vs New Jersey). It's not unfeasible to suggest that given 63 field goal attempts and 32 free throw attempts, Michael Jordan could also score 100 points. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that most of the great scorers in NBA history could duplicate that feat, given the opportunity.

But no one is going to be given 63 shot attempts, not these days.

In 1967-68 he led the league in assists, something Jordan has never came close to doing

It's worth noting:

1. The year Chamberlain led the league in assists, he did not have the highest average. Back in the 60s, league leaders were based on totals, not averages.
2. During the 60s, most of the top five players in the assists column were averaging around 6 apg or less. Compare this to the 90s, where most players in the top 5 for assists were averaging greater than 8 assists per game. Wilt's "league leading" 8.6 assists per game (Oscar Robertson actually averaged 9.7 apg that year) would not have led the league during the 80s and 90s.
3. Wilt never averaged more than 5.2 apg while scoring 30 or more points per game. In contrast, MJ managed to lead the league in scoring with 32.5 ppg while also handing out 8 assists per game. Six times, MJ was able to average 5.5 or more assists per game while also scoring over 30 points per game.

A significant difference between these two great scorers is that MJ was able to top the league in scoring while also winning championships. Only a couple of players have been able to do that. Wilt Chamberlain is not one of them. As impressive as his scoring feats are, he could not be a great scorer and a winner. The year he won his first championship, his scoring average was 24.1 ppg - 26.3 ppg lower than his record-setting career high.

Something else that strikes me as being unusual is his playoff numbers.

MJ's Career Playoff Averages:
33.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.7 apg, 2.1 spg, 0.88 bpg

MJ's Career Regular Season Averages:
30.1 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 5.3 apg, 2.35 spg, 0.83 bpg

His playoff averages are higher (most significantly his points per game average) with the exception of steals - and they're not far off his career regular season mark.

Wilt's Career Playoff Averages:
22.5 ppg, 24.5 rpg, 4.2 apg

Wilt's Career Regular Season Averages:
30.1 ppg, 22.9 rpg, 4.4 apg

Wilt's rebounds are even more amazing in the playoffs, but what about his scoring? His scoring average is 7.6 ppg lower in the postseason. At a time when he needs to dominate the most - playoff time, where the title is at stake and up for grabs - his scoring is down about 25%. And it's not because he's dishing out more assists.

Pretty much any great player you can name - Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Moses Malone, Walt Frazier, Bob Cousy, John Havlicek, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, Jerry West, Isiah Thomas - all lift their game in the postseason. But Wilt's stats took a big hit come playoff time.

I'm not saying that Wilt wasn't great, but to suggest that no other player comes close is to underestimate not only Michael Jordan, but a multitude of other NBA greats.

[Stevan]

Wilt Chamberlain = Most overrated athlete in the history of sports. Played in a friggin YMCA league back in the 60's.

Magic, Bird, Jordan... all better, more successful and more influential than Wilt.

I'm off to browse Michael Jordan's section on NBA.com.

Thank you and good night.

[Matthew]

A possible reason for all those rebounds is the amount of shots that were taken. Its alot easier to get a high number of rebounds if there is more misses from more attempts...

[air gordon]

this thread seems to come up once in a blue moon...

jordan and wilt.. both great players. who is better? for me- too hard to tell comparing stats from different era's.

thank you j23 for the link. i seldom check out nba.com/history profiles

[Stevan]

thank you j23 for the link. i seldom check out nba.com/history profiles

There's a fair bit of info in the history section. I was suprised, haven't checked it out in a long time.

[Jeffx]

Wilt is still the greatest NBA player I ever saw, with Russell, Jordan, Oscar, Kareem, Magic, Larry, Hakeem, Elgin & Jerry West rounding out my top 10.

A lot of cats here need a better understanding of NBA history. The NBA wasn't a YMCA league in the 60s & 70s. It wasn't watered-down like it is now, and the players had better fundamental skills.

[Vins15]

great link thx j.23

[j.23]

np guys:)

[Andreas Dahl]

worth checking out: Michael Jordan Career Retrospective

also; MJ had 37 +50 games...


hmm, I saw the Iceman in the page you posted; here's an intesting fact: George Gervin's son plays in the Swedish basketball league...

[Matt]

But no one is going to be given 63 shot attempts, not these days.

yeah, Kobe took 47 attempts last season and his arm was about to fall off

It wasn't watered-down like it is now, and the players had better fundamental skills.

i think todays players do have good fundamental skills......however they don't show them, instead of opting for a more 'street' game where 'show-boating' (as Hubie Brown calls it) is the name of the game. Players have a different way of thinking, instead of working the ball around and passing and screening they opt for 1-on-1 plays and stuff like that which really doesnt display fundamental elements.

If only there was a team of John Stocktons and Tim Duncans

[Drex]

If only there was a team of John Stocktons and Tim Duncans

It would be great, but the "fans" would start claiming that the league is boring.

[Bill Russell]

Bah... Wilt Pimperlain holds the career record for scoring... 20.000 and some more after he retired... You guys don't understand how he changed the game...

[Matt]

yeah he was the PIMP that 50 Cent wishes he could be

[benji]

A lot of cats here need a better understanding of NBA history. The NBA wasn't a YMCA league in the 60s & 70s. It wasn't watered-down like it is now, and the players had better fundamental skills.

Exactly. Chartered jets, good shoes, good medicine, a slow pace, all these rules against physical contact...NBA players today have it easy.

But this is fun...so let's break-it-down.

True, but one cannot ignore that he was 7-1, 275 lbs, in a league where there were more six foot guards than seven foot centres. He had such a huge size advantage on his opponents.

Then why haven't so many other seven footers dominated? One cannot ignore that today there are more six foot guards than seven foot centers in the league.

It's doubtful he could have averaged 22.9 rebounds per game over his career had he played in the same era as Jordan.

But do you know why?

40 field goals per game! That wouldn't happen today.

But do you know why?

Take his 100 point game for example. He shot 36/63 from the field, and 28/32 from the free throw line. No other player has attempted 60 or more field goals in a single game. Combine skills with opportunity, and you're going to get awesome results.

Wilt didn't want to do that, his teammates pushed him all season, he finally caved and felt horrible afterwards.

But no one is going to be given 63 shot attempts, not these days.

But do you know why?

Here's why. Teams today don't even get 80 shots a game. If you gave 63 shots to a player in the last decade, they would not be able to get 100 because the defense would focus on them (like they did Wilt, the Knicks were hanging on his back to stop him from scoring) and the slow pace would prevent it.

During the 60s, most of the top five players in the assists column were averaging around 6 apg or less. Compare this to the 90s, where most players in the top 5 for assists were averaging greater than 8 assists per game. Wilt's "league leading" 8.6 assists per game (Oscar Robertson actually averaged 9.7 apg that year) would not have led the league during the 80s and 90s.

Back then the player had to score without dribbling, today you get at least a dribble and a half. I have no doubt Wilt would've cracked 10 and Oscar would've cracked 15 assists today.

Wilt never averaged more than 5.2 apg while scoring 30 or more points per game. In contrast, MJ managed to lead the league in scoring with 32.5 ppg while also handing out 8 assists per game. Six times, MJ was able to average 5.5 or more assists per game while also scoring over 30 points per game.

This is deceiving again for a number of reasons. One, the assist rules. Two, the fact that when Wilt was a scoring machine that was his job, his job was not to set up his teammates because they weren't as good. When he got to Philadelphia he had some great teammates and so he became more of a go-through than the stopping point.

A significant difference between these two great scorers is that MJ was able to top the league in scoring while also winning championships.

Michael Jordan never faced the Boston Celtics of the 1960s.

Wilt was good, but look at his competition

The Boston Celtics. The greatest dynasty in Basketball history. The Lakers weren't too shabby either with Baylor and West. Nor were the Hawks or Royals.

Wilt played well, but put him in Micheal's time, he would have been just a tad better than Olajuwan and the others.

That is such a laugh. Wilt would've torn the players today apart, especially if he was in his prime in the 90's. Teams were courting him in the late 80's because he was still considered one of the top ten players in the world...at age 52! Wilt was a freak, he threw a 250lb man over a volleyball net, he ran marathons and played pro volleyball until his death. He was a track star in college, best in the nation at the shot put and dominant in other areas. To think he would've only been a tad better than Akeem is a joke.

But then.. this isnt about numbers. Its about impact. He made basketball what it is today through his dominance and skill... he made casual basketball fans interested.. he impacted sports the world over...

Isn't he lucky he had the mass media and not just mainly radio and newspaper.

Michael Jordan- the greatest athlete of all time

To say Michael Jordan is a better athlete than Jesse Owens, Babe Didrikson or Jim Thorpe is foolish (yes, I'm looking at you SportsCentury). Hell, to say he was a better athlete than Wilt is also foolish.

You've got to be kidding me if you dont see how great Michael Jordan is. His charisma, his attitude, his humbleness, his everything just makes him the greatest.

I didn't say he wasn't great...I said he's no Wilt. And that charisma, attitude and humbleness?

Early in the 2002-03 season SI learned that Jordan, then a sixth man, told coach Doug Collins that he would no longer come off the bench. (He started the rest of the year.) According to the New York Times, Jordan made it clear to teammates that their willingness to pass to him would bear on their playing time. Point guard Larry Hughes, who shot early and often, was replaced by the more submissive Tyronn Lue. That Jordan was expected to return to the executive suite after the season heightened the climate of trepidation. Reportedly, it was guard Richard Hamilton's willingness to stand up to Jordan that precipitated his being traded to the Pistons last summer. As a leader Jordan proved more tormentor than mentor. Many Washington players got the business end of a Jordan harangue, but he designated second-year forward Kwame Brown as the whipping boy, referring to him, as reported by The Washington Post, as a "flaming faggot." A source told SI that Jordan ritually reduced Brown to tears in front of the team. Brown, whom Jordan took with the first pick in the 2001 draft, showed flashes of brilliance, but his confidence was lacerated by a player who was once his idol.

He also assault and batteried Steve Kerr.

[Stevan]

Michael Jordan never faced the Boston Celtics of the 1960s.

Lucky for the Celtics.