If you have the best player in the league or one of the best players, shouldn't he be a guy that can win a game?
Either Doc Rivers is to blame or McGrady just doesn't make anyone around him better.
I really think he is a good player, but if you lose over and over, how good are you?
He was seriously on fire tonight, but they basically let him shoot and shoot and boxed out and got the rebounds, shut everyone else down and won that being Denver's plan, I saw it before the game, the coach of Denver said it, "McGrady will score points, but we will try to win the game."
This loss was can also go to McGrady and Lue's Defense, Earl Boykins and Andre Miller were outscored only 64-54 by Lue and McGrady. These were the two primary guards for Denver.
Carmelo Anthony had 17 points, 14 rebounds and 7 assists.
I know you all think I am getting after McGrady or something, but I am not impressed with the game, I watched it and it's just stupid to go to one person over and over and not play any defense, allow the other team to grab one offensive rebound after another and put it back up, then hurry the ball to McGrady and do the same thing over again. How can you believe you can win like that?
Some say McGrady just doesn't have any help, well he doesn't have a coach either, so yes McGrady is awesome, and it's not his fault Orlando loses, but they are losing too much and something must change there.
http://www.nba.com/games/20031114/ORLDEN/boxscore.html
Yes I enjoyed his game, he is great, but 1-8 is not so great.
51 Points *8 straight losses.
35 posts
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51 Points *8 straight losses.
by paul_pierce_the_truth on Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:32 pm
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paul_pierce_the_truth - Posts: 584
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by Vins15 on Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:44 pm
bad start...maybe McGrady is healthy and they may not make to the playoffs? 
to early to tell but a possibility...he's playing pretty bad right now....and i don't think he enjoys playing with sum of his new teamates..
to early to tell but a possibility...he's playing pretty bad right now....and i don't think he enjoys playing with sum of his new teamates..-
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by Andrew on Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:23 pm
I can't comment on the game itself, but I agree that 51 points doesn't mean as much without a victory. I notice Juwan Howard shot 3-11 - was he getting good looks, or were most of his attempts forced/rushed with the clock winding down?
Looking at the boxscores for their latest game and their season stats, it's obvious Orlando doesn't get much help from their bench. They have four guys in double figures, but they're all starters. Against Denver, the only reserve to hit more than one field goal was Keith Bogans, as the bench combined to shoot 6-23. I see Denver was able to get 27 points from Boykins (who came off the bench) - he alone outscored Orlando's entire bench.
I don't know what else T-Mac could do to help the team win, though I'm guessing a few of his 10 missed field goals were ill-advised where he should have dished off to a teammate. Since you saw the game Mike, perhaps you could comment on his shot selection - it would either give my theory more merit or disprove it.
Looking at the boxscores for their latest game and their season stats, it's obvious Orlando doesn't get much help from their bench. They have four guys in double figures, but they're all starters. Against Denver, the only reserve to hit more than one field goal was Keith Bogans, as the bench combined to shoot 6-23. I see Denver was able to get 27 points from Boykins (who came off the bench) - he alone outscored Orlando's entire bench.
I don't know what else T-Mac could do to help the team win, though I'm guessing a few of his 10 missed field goals were ill-advised where he should have dished off to a teammate. Since you saw the game Mike, perhaps you could comment on his shot selection - it would either give my theory more merit or disprove it.
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by Old School Fool on Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:56 pm
T-Mac got 50? Holy hell! Why isn't it a Big Deal like Rashard Lewis? Was it cause he played for the Sonics? 
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Old School Fool - Posts: 2399
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by Andrew on Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:32 pm
NBA.com did mention that he scored 51. But T-Mac is a proven scorer who has had 40 and 50 point games before, whereas Rashard Lewis is not considered one of the league's best scorers.
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Andrew - Retro Basketball Gamer
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by alexboom on Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:38 pm
McGrady reminds me Jordan when he was young and playing against the Bad Boys (Detroit) : They let him score as much as he wanted to but shut down all of his teammates.
McGrady is still young, one day, he still can learn how to make win his team.
And don't forget that for this game, McGrady was very lonely...Grant Hill is really missing
McGrady is still young, one day, he still can learn how to make win his team.
And don't forget that for this game, McGrady was very lonely...Grant Hill is really missing
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alexboom - Posts: 2237
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by Dramacydal on Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:03 pm
must be disappointing, he can score as many points as possible but his team still keeps on loosin, hehe, glad that im a sixers fan, ais playin a great season so far, hes a real leader unlike t-mac, 12 assists vs spurs, i like those more than the 36 points 
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by DipSetVC on Sat Nov 15, 2003 9:31 pm
Since I'm a lifelong Raptors fan, you won't see me feeling sorry for ol' T-Mac. I can't deny that he is a great talent but I'm certainly enjoying him losing every night, and pondering retirement at age 23 
. It doesn't get any easier for the Magic, they started off a 5-game Western Conference road trip yesterday with a loss to Denver.
. It doesn't get any easier for the Magic, they started off a 5-game Western Conference road trip yesterday with a loss to Denver.-
DipSetVC - Posts: 428
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:43 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
by paul_pierce_the_truth on Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:37 pm
Andrew,
His shot selection was almost all long bombs, his knee believe it or not was killing him and he still went wild, but not many drives or dunks, a couple of lobs and so on, but it was all mostly deep stuff, as far as his shot selection toward the end of the game, he probably could have taken it to the basket and would have drawn mass double and triple teams, but again his knee, at the very end there was a chance for Orlando to put together a win, but McGrady continued with the 3-Ball and the deeper shots.
I remember if he would have hit a three at the end it would have cut it to 1 or tied it, but he missed the three and Orlando didn't recover.
McGrady aside from the loss, was amazing in some ways, because he was hurt, because he hit bombs for 3 over and over, at one point in the the late third quarter the game was like 78-84 Denver, the annoucer mentioned McGrady had 37 and that his career high was 52, then said McGrady wouldn't get near that "most likely", but McGrady did get 51.
Keith Bogans is a heartless shmuck in my opinion, he disappeared against Marquette and Dwayne Wade in the Regional Final, this ended a win streak of like 27 or something for Kentucky, his said his knee was bothering him, but when the game started he played fine, as Marquette rushed his team for a big lead only then did Bogans start wobbling around.
Orlando is missing Pat Garrity and Gordan Giricek, plus guys like
Steven Hunter, Zaza Pachulia (19-years-old, ranks 9th youngest and is Russian), Reece Gaines (22-years-old, ranks 60th youngest and is a rookie), plus league plankton like Donnell Harvey, Shammond Williams and Andrew DeClercq doesn't really help McGrady.
Juwan Howard and Tyronn Lue are no better than average players, at one point Lue got his shot blocked by the 5'5" Earl Boykins, not to mention Boykins lighting him up for 27 and picking his pocket a few times, guys like Camby and Anthony cleared the boards while Gooden and Hunter were standing around taking up salary cap space.
If Orlando falls a few more times without so much of a smell of win, look for Doc Rivers to be packing his bags for Atlanta.
Golden State has been hit the hardest by injury and manage to fight for wins. (Recently Sean Lampley and Cherokee Parks have seen minutes with Golden State, neither of which did Golden State even have a phone number for two weeks ago)
Again I think if Tracy McGrady were truley a great superstar he would find a way to win.
I remember 1996 like it was yesterday, the Bulls won 72 games, yet Dennis Rodman missed 18 games, Pippen 5, Longley 20, Wennington 11 and Kukoc missed 1 game. But Michael Jordan missed none and carried the Bulls anyway, I remember a game against Washington or New Jersey who both sucked really bad I am sure, but Jordan didn't have Rodman, Longley or Pippen and won the game. So if McGrady wants some inspiration, there it is.
Orlando is 0-6 at home, I would like to see them do the Texas three-step and the California to Washington tour.
Tracy McGrady born May 24, 1979 is 24.5 years old (ranks 136th youngest)
Notable young players that might surprise you:
Maciej Lampe is younger than LeBron James, Darko Milicic is the youngest.
1. Milicic
2. Lampe (NYK)
3. James
4. Kendrick Perkins (Boston)
5. Travis Outlaw (Portland)
6. Ndudi Ebi (Minnesota)
7. Melo
8. Chris Bosh (Toronto)
9. Zaza Pachulia (Orlando)
10. Sacha Pavlovic (Utah)
Youngest player who is not a rookie this year:
Dajuan Wagner, Cleveland 20.8 (ranks 15th overall)
Amare Stoudemire still can't drink a beer legally until Sunday Nov. 15.
Tony Parker 21 (ranks 29th)
Gilbert Arenas 21 (ranks 36th)
Zack Randolph whom I believe will make the Western All-Star Squad is 22 (ranks 46th)
Richard Jefferson, Mike Miller and Pau Gasol are 23
Ron Artest just recently turned 24 (ranks 115th youngest player in the league).
Tracy McGrady, Elton Brand and Baron Davis have to reach their 25th birthday.
[Researched Nov. 8th, 2003]
His shot selection was almost all long bombs, his knee believe it or not was killing him and he still went wild, but not many drives or dunks, a couple of lobs and so on, but it was all mostly deep stuff, as far as his shot selection toward the end of the game, he probably could have taken it to the basket and would have drawn mass double and triple teams, but again his knee, at the very end there was a chance for Orlando to put together a win, but McGrady continued with the 3-Ball and the deeper shots.
I remember if he would have hit a three at the end it would have cut it to 1 or tied it, but he missed the three and Orlando didn't recover.
McGrady aside from the loss, was amazing in some ways, because he was hurt, because he hit bombs for 3 over and over, at one point in the the late third quarter the game was like 78-84 Denver, the annoucer mentioned McGrady had 37 and that his career high was 52, then said McGrady wouldn't get near that "most likely", but McGrady did get 51.
Keith Bogans is a heartless shmuck in my opinion, he disappeared against Marquette and Dwayne Wade in the Regional Final, this ended a win streak of like 27 or something for Kentucky, his said his knee was bothering him, but when the game started he played fine, as Marquette rushed his team for a big lead only then did Bogans start wobbling around.
Orlando is missing Pat Garrity and Gordan Giricek, plus guys like
Steven Hunter, Zaza Pachulia (19-years-old, ranks 9th youngest and is Russian), Reece Gaines (22-years-old, ranks 60th youngest and is a rookie), plus league plankton like Donnell Harvey, Shammond Williams and Andrew DeClercq doesn't really help McGrady.
Juwan Howard and Tyronn Lue are no better than average players, at one point Lue got his shot blocked by the 5'5" Earl Boykins, not to mention Boykins lighting him up for 27 and picking his pocket a few times, guys like Camby and Anthony cleared the boards while Gooden and Hunter were standing around taking up salary cap space.
If Orlando falls a few more times without so much of a smell of win, look for Doc Rivers to be packing his bags for Atlanta.
Golden State has been hit the hardest by injury and manage to fight for wins. (Recently Sean Lampley and Cherokee Parks have seen minutes with Golden State, neither of which did Golden State even have a phone number for two weeks ago)
Again I think if Tracy McGrady were truley a great superstar he would find a way to win.
I remember 1996 like it was yesterday, the Bulls won 72 games, yet Dennis Rodman missed 18 games, Pippen 5, Longley 20, Wennington 11 and Kukoc missed 1 game. But Michael Jordan missed none and carried the Bulls anyway, I remember a game against Washington or New Jersey who both sucked really bad I am sure, but Jordan didn't have Rodman, Longley or Pippen and won the game. So if McGrady wants some inspiration, there it is.
Orlando is 0-6 at home, I would like to see them do the Texas three-step and the California to Washington tour.
Tracy McGrady born May 24, 1979 is 24.5 years old (ranks 136th youngest)
Notable young players that might surprise you:
Maciej Lampe is younger than LeBron James, Darko Milicic is the youngest.
1. Milicic
2. Lampe (NYK)
3. James
4. Kendrick Perkins (Boston)
5. Travis Outlaw (Portland)
6. Ndudi Ebi (Minnesota)
7. Melo
8. Chris Bosh (Toronto)
9. Zaza Pachulia (Orlando)
10. Sacha Pavlovic (Utah)
Youngest player who is not a rookie this year:
Dajuan Wagner, Cleveland 20.8 (ranks 15th overall)
Amare Stoudemire still can't drink a beer legally until Sunday Nov. 15.
Tony Parker 21 (ranks 29th)
Gilbert Arenas 21 (ranks 36th)
Zack Randolph whom I believe will make the Western All-Star Squad is 22 (ranks 46th)
Richard Jefferson, Mike Miller and Pau Gasol are 23
Ron Artest just recently turned 24 (ranks 115th youngest player in the league).
Tracy McGrady, Elton Brand and Baron Davis have to reach their 25th birthday.
[Researched Nov. 8th, 2003]
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paul_pierce_the_truth - Posts: 584
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 3:26 am
by Amphatoast on Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:30 am
paul_pierce_the_truth wrote:Andrew,
Tracy McGrady born May 24, 1979 is 24.5 years old (ranks 136th youngest)
Notable young players that might surprise you:
Maciej Lampe is younger than LeBron James, Darko Milicic is the youngest.
1. Milicic
2. Lampe (NYK)
3. James
4. Kendrick Perkins (Boston)
5. Travis Outlaw (Portland)
6. Ndudi Ebi (Minnesota)
7. Melo
8. Chris Bosh (Toronto)
9. Zaza Pachulia (Orlando)
10. Sacha Pavlovic (Utah)
Youngest player who is not a rookie this year:
Dajuan Wagner, Cleveland 20.8 (ranks 15th overall)
Amare Stoudemire still can't drink a beer legally until Sunday Nov. 15.
Tony Parker 21 (ranks 29th)
Gilbert Arenas 21 (ranks 36th)
Zack Randolph whom I believe will make the Western All-Star Squad is 22 (ranks 46th)
Richard Jefferson, Mike Miller and Pau Gasol are 23
Ron Artest just recently turned 24 (ranks 115th youngest player in the league).
Tracy McGrady, Elton Brand and Baron Davis have to reach their 25th birthday.
[Researched Nov. 8th, 2003]
where did you get that information from?
- Amphatoast
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- Location: new york
by Tony on Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:38 am
it's a real bummer, i'm a magic fan... hopefully when my man Giricek comes back with Garrity T-Mac will have some more shooting help. Doc really messed up by getting rid of Darrell and Horace though, those guys held the team together. Maybe he should just take a hike... his stupid grudges 
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Tony - Posts: 1149
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- Location: Sarajevo
by paul_pierce_the_truth on Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:23 am
Amphatoast wrote:paul_pierce_the_truth wrote:Andrew,
Tracy McGrady born May 24, 1979 is 24.5 years old (ranks 136th youngest)
Notable young players that might surprise you:
Maciej Lampe is younger than LeBron James, Darko Milicic is the youngest.
1. Milicic
2. Lampe (NYK)
3. James
4. Kendrick Perkins (Boston)
5. Travis Outlaw (Portland)
6. Ndudi Ebi (Minnesota)
7. Melo
8. Chris Bosh (Toronto)
9. Zaza Pachulia (Orlando)
10. Sacha Pavlovic (Utah)
Youngest player who is not a rookie this year:
Dajuan Wagner, Cleveland 20.8 (ranks 15th overall)
Amare Stoudemire still can't drink a beer legally until Sunday Nov. 15.
Tony Parker 21 (ranks 29th)
Gilbert Arenas 21 (ranks 36th)
Zack Randolph whom I believe will make the Western All-Star Squad is 22 (ranks 46th)
Richard Jefferson, Mike Miller and Pau Gasol are 23
Ron Artest just recently turned 24 (ranks 115th youngest player in the league).
Tracy McGrady, Elton Brand and Baron Davis have to reach their 25th birthday.
[Researched Nov. 8th, 2003]
where did you get that information from?
I researched it myself from NBA.Com, so far I have done it for 147 players under 25 as of Nov. 8, 2003.
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paul_pierce_the_truth - Posts: 584
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2002 3:26 am
by DipSetVC on Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:40 am
Tony wrote:it's a real bummer, i'm a magic fan... hopefully when my man Giricek comes back with Garrity T-Mac will have some more shooting help. Doc really messed up by getting rid of Darrell and Horace though, those guys held the team together. Maybe he should just take a hike... his stupid grudges
Too bad Garrity is out for the season.
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DipSetVC - Posts: 428
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 4:43 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
by Poollit on Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:10 am
T-MAC should learn to not shoot so many three pointers. 11 3 point attempts is too many by an individual player. When Carter used to shoot 5 a game people critisized him all the time.
????he made like 7 of those 11????? if ur shooting that good, I hope u jack up those 3s
And besides VC took 5 3s a game for season, That was 1 good game for T-mac..
how do i make a fancy signature?
- Poollit
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by Tony on Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:34 am
yep, too bad, didn't know that, i'm even more excited for this season...DipSetVC wrote:Tony wrote:it's a real bummer, i'm a magic fan... hopefully when my man Giricek comes back with Garrity T-Mac will have some more shooting help. Doc really messed up by getting rid of Darrell and Horace though, those guys held the team together. Maybe he should just take a hike... his stupid grudges
Too bad Garrity is out for the season.
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Tony - Posts: 1149
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by EGarrett on Sun Nov 16, 2003 1:08 pm
The problem is that their two best 3-point shooters...Giricek and Garrity...are both injured. Now they have no one to punish the zone. But instead of realizing that...they're all freaking out and talking about firing the coach while McGrady claims he wants to quit basketball.
It's all ridiculous...and with his endless stream of quotes McGrady is starting to establish a reputation as a bit of a drama queen. The whole situation has inspired me to get a new avatar.
"Over the last five games, I've had some crazy thoughts, man," McGrady told the Orlando Sentinel. "I was thinking that after this year, I'm done with basketball. Done with basketball, period. That's how frustrated I've been."
It's all ridiculous...and with his endless stream of quotes McGrady is starting to establish a reputation as a bit of a drama queen. The whole situation has inspired me to get a new avatar.
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EGarrett - Posts: 1248
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by paul_pierce_the_truth on Sun Nov 16, 2003 1:52 pm
EGarrett wrote:The problem is that their two best 3-point shooters...Giricek and Garrity...are both injured. Now they have no one to punish the zone. But instead of realizing that...they're all freaking out and talking about firing the coach while McGrady claims he wants to quit basketball."Over the last five games, I've had some crazy thoughts, man," McGrady told the Orlando Sentinel. "I was thinking that after this year, I'm done with basketball. Done with basketball, period. That's how frustrated I've been."
It's all ridiculous...and with his endless stream of quotes McGrady is starting to establish a reputation as a bit of a drama queen. The whole situation has inspired me to get a new avatar.
If you need Gordon Giricek and Pat Garrity to save your job, you should be fired just for that, Garrity is not coming back, better pack your bags.
Maybe McGrady thinks he so big that the NBA may consider his comments enough to take out the zone?
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