Formulas

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Formulas

Postby slimm44 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:31 am

nyflava2k9 Are you using any of the information you obtained from me a year ago? If so, please stop. If your answer is no, I'd like to know the formulas you are using and how you came up with them.

At this point, I'm having a hard time seeing how you were able to do what you are doing without any influence from my spreadsheet or using it directly.

I hope you aren't using my work without asking for permission.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:44 pm

slimm44 wrote:nyflava2k9 Are you using any of the information you obtained from me a year ago? If so, please stop. If your answer is no, I'd like to know the formulas you are using and how you came up with them.

At this point, I'm having a hard time seeing how you were able to do what you are doing without any influence from my spreadsheet or using it directly.

I hope you aren't using my work without asking for permission.


To answer your question... No. I came up with and am using my own ratings/tendencies formulas.

However, to say that I wasn't influenced/ inspired by your work, I'd be lying. As a community, I'd hope that we could all learn from and be inspired by each others works. I did learn techniques from you (and others on NLSC and Operation Sports amongst others eventually). I have never shied away from that fact and have literally always given you due credit. Even after you told me I'd be wasting my time updating UBR I still put your name on the release credits for my 2016 & 2017 UBR Rosters (last year) just for simply consulting with me prior to that. (Reference page 227 of this thread.)

Yes, the concept of putting multiple players into a spread sheet and plugging in formulas (for times sake) to do ratings conversions came from you. I was so inexperienced in roster modding on this scale at that time, I didn't even know that virtually everybody uses RedMC/Spreadsheets to edit rosters. I literally used to do all my edits in game, player-by-player, as I had done for years prior on console versions. You were the first person to show me a different way. So yes, you did influence/guide me. I have since thanked you repeatedly.

But to be clear, that is the extent of your influence. I came up with the idea of realistic sim stats on my own. (I've tweaked ratings and sim stats since I could remember on console. Even if others were already doing the same, it was not to my knowledge.) I created my own ratings spreadsheet from scratch and added multiple categories unseen in your spreadsheets. I researched, tested and came up with my own formulas. I put those hours in. No one can take that from me.

If you remember clearly, I wasn't even truly familiar with you and your work (or anyone else similar) when I first made my announcement regarding making rosters that have realistic stat outputs. (Page 216 on this thread is where I made that very first announcement.) Mine and yours initial interactions came after that. I was already posting screens with realistic stat outputs before me and you ever spoke, making it a point to use rating systems vastly different than yours.

There has always been an outward disclosure from the very beginning that I wanted my ratings to be more in-line with the 2K/UBR/Meds overalls. One of the big reasons for this was CPU trading and free agent signings in season and association mode. I felt those functions wouldn't work properly with the way your overalls worked. I happened to be right. I have always stuck to that and thus by default have kept our work seperate. I literally could not use your work even if I wanted to. Not only do I not understand your formulas but your ratings system is not in line with what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm not knocking your ratings system whatsoever, it plays great. I'm just pointing out the fact that it would be impossible to use your work and reach my desired effect for 2K/UBR/Meds overalls.

This is all evident by the fact that our overalls and sim outputs are completely different. So different to the point that it prompted me to post my initial screenshots comparing the differences in mods (Also on Page 216). None of this should come as a surprise to you as I sent you a copy of the spreadsheet I created with all my formulas in it... last year. You acknowledged seeing it then. I will be happy to send it to you again if you don't still have it.

Again, my apologies for going awol mid-project over a year ago. I have a life just like everyone else of course. A video game didn't make the cut over an out of state move and being there for my family that I am continuing to add to. It has literally been only a matter of weeks since I have been lucky enough to have time to take a breather.

Let me say this though... If me helping you with 10+ seasons didn't even earn me the benefit of doubt or a private discussion on this matter, then this is all that needs to be said. As little as a contribution it might've been for you, those contributions took hours for me. I will be sure that any semblance of your work will be prioritized for removal. No hard feelings. Take care man. Wish you all the best.
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:54 pm

Here is the initial PM you sent me regarding helping convert Pat's project to my ratings/tendencies on April 10, 2017:

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Here was my first response:

"Hey, man. I appreciate the offer to help. If you follow through, you will be the first person I've encounter to help edit the information I edit (ratings, tendencies, etc). I hope you follow through because it will cut my work in half or more. Which would be awesome.

What I need is help looking at basketball-reference.com and doing basic data entry. It's a little tricky for teams prior to 1967 because, up until then, there was no illegal defense call. Teams would camp their big men in the paint which influenced offenses to run and gun like crazy and take a ridiculous amount of low percentage shots (hence the pace, FGA, rebounds, and low FG%) prior to 1967. What I'm thinking about doing is raising all players' FG% by 10 total points for the 1960-61 through 1965-66 seasons to compensate. I know this isn't completely realistic, but if we set player ratings to create accurate sim engine FG%, the overall ratings will plummet and the gameplay will be beyond horrible. I think raising FG% 10 points is a fair adjustment. If you have other ideas, let me know.

Here is a link to the spreadsheet: REDACTED

I need you to fill in the cells that are highlighted yellow.

I will have more time in an hour to explain how to fill it out (there is some guessing involved for the era we are editing and I have methods to share with you to help ensure accuracy for each position). If you receive this before I respond, please download the spreadsheet and look at the 1959-1960 teams on BR to locate where the stats are (if you're not already familiar). Most stats are in the per36 minute section but MPG are in the per game section and AST% is found in the advanced section (starting when that stat was calculated, either late 60's or early 70's, I can't remember which.)

Are you on Facebook?"

This was the introduction to your initial FB message reply:

"I trust your methods so I will initially get all players in line for each position tendency wise and work from there tonight."

Notice, we discussed data entry as I was converting PattheHead's 2k13 project to my ratings and tendencies. I appreciated the help at the time because you stated emphatically that you would not use my work for any other project. I can post the whole conversation and our entire FB conversation if you'd like. I've posted a few comments from our FB conversation lower.

We started conversing on April 10, 2017. You sent me a spreadsheet on April 28th with at-the-time current players (which was the last date that document has been edited, per Google Drive's time/date stamp). What it looks like is from April 10th to April 28th you used my proven methods to develop your own. Then, at some point between April 10th and 28th (18 days), you decided to use them on UBR without my permission. I appreciate the hours and few weeks you helped me with. I did then and I still do. But, by your own admission, the only way that was possible was because of the thousands of hours over several years that I had already put in to get to that point.

In regards to overall ratings, they can easily be changed by editing non-statistical ratings, which I completely overhauled explained to you on FB at the time. All subjective ratings were updated to be more in-line with 2k's rating system.

I'll leave you with one last exchange. This is from April 28, 2017.

You: "Hey man hope all is well. Wanted to let you know I will be getting you everything through 84 done by this weekend. Also, wanted to ask a favor of you... So I did the 2017 season for UBR, but honestly, the gameplay using strictly 2k/Hawks ratings is well.. Not that good to be nice about it lol.. I wanted to request your permission to implement your tendencies into the roster to enhance the gameplay with all credits going to you of course."

Notice in your statement you didn't ask for permission. You decided then to use my work for another project then tell me about it.

Me: "Honestly, it's not going to be worth your time. The primary problem with the gameplay in UBR is the playbooks. Having working playbooks in 2k14 is the most important part of gameplay. 2k14 took me forever to "master" because of the playbooks. I had to test EVERY SINGLE PLAY to find enough that the CPU could actually run without looking STUPID."

Notice in my response I didn't give you permission to use my work. I tried to dissuade you but, obviously, you didn't get the message.

You: "I never considered that but it makes perfect sense. I agree with you as getting into the playbooks isn't something I wouldn't be interested in pouring time into. I'd much rather use that time for URB. The UBR roster is pretty much done anyway so I wasn't planning on putting in much more time anyway, but especially now knowing this about the playbooks I will leave things where they are. I doubt it would even mesh right anyways being as though I'm using 2k/Hawks very arcadish/exaggerated ratings and overalls. With that being said, I've already updated the following ratings using those formulas: shot ratings, lay up/std lay up, O&D reb, passing, steals, blocks, off/def awareness, durability and potential. I've also updated the following tendencies using their system: take shot, shot locations, draw foul, take foul... Would it be fine if for the other residual attributes that I haven't mentioned (speed, on ball defense, hook shot, vertical etc) that I use your ratings for those specifically as a base?"

Here is your last substantive statement to me regarding "your" spreadsheet and our work together.

"Cool. I'm going to be sending you a link. Its a spread sheet I made of my work and it has all my formulas in there. I wanted to send it to you any way for pointers, and also so you can possibly tweak it for your own use. Its basically a ratings converter (got the idea from you) that allows you to copy and paste the per 36 and advanced stats from Basketball reference and the shot location tendencies from nba.con without having to modify tables."

It's obvious that you obtained my knowledge and used my work under the guise of helping me while you were actually gearing up to update UBR. The impressive part is it appears to have taken you 18 days to take my formulas and develop them into your own. Unfortunately, you deceived me into obtaining the information you needed to do it (including the idea of how to set up the spreadsheets).

"I will be sure that any semblance of your work will be prioritized for removal. No hard feelings. "

Maybe I should have been more direct and emphatic about you not using my ideas and/or work for any publicly-released mod at the time. I assumed that when you offered that in your first PM you would honor it. However, you didn't honor your word. You stated that I could have handled this via PM. Yes, I could have handled this privately. However, when you decided to share what I gave you publicly, I decided to put a stop to it publicly. I'm not asking you to try to find another backdoor to use what you obtained from me. It's obviously what you are doing. So, please stop using any information you obtained from working with me and please do not publicly release anything that you have done related to the work you did with me and/or any/all information I shared with you. You do not have my permission.

THIS MEANS DON'T RELEASE ANYTHING AT ALL IF IT'S IN ANY WAY RELATED TO WHAT YOU LEARNED FROM WORKING WITH ME

Hawk and Andrew, I would appreciate it if you ensured this request was followed in both this mod and any other mod on NLSC. I believe I've earned the right to decide where and when my ideas and work get used. Andrew and Hawk, please respond to this post to let me and the community know that you will honor my request to uphold the integrity of this community. Once I see that, I'll log back out and resume transferring the work I have applied to Pat's 1960-1984 rosters to 2k14 for me and Sko's URB project.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Tommyhtc on Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:16 am

For all parties involved in this, I obviously am not in the know enough to judge what exactly happened between you guys, and definitely won't be saying whose fault it is or who's to blame more, but can we all just get along? Not saying people should be free to use each other's works, but it looks like nyflava2k9 has not been unreasonable. But what I see as more important is that with Hawk23 back, URB/UBR are literally the two remaining high quality roster projects still being updated today. You guys are what we have left when it comes to huge roster projects for 2k14. Recently, we are also lucky to have another passionate modder nyflava2k9 join us and contribute to this niche community and I'm glad he's here. Let's not start throwing dirt at this point and discourage anyone from contributing to the modding community for 2k14? I won't go as far as saying everyone should collaborate or make this open source, but at this point, let's potentially consider setting aside our differences "for the greater good", because this is really a small community that will only get smaller?
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Mavs4Life on Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:16 am

Tommyhtc wrote:For all parties involved in this, I obviously am not in the know enough to judge what exactly happened between you guys, and definitely won't be saying whose fault it is or who's to blame more, but can we all just get along? Not saying people should be free to use each other's works, but it looks like nyflava2k9 has not been unreasonable. But what I see as more important is that with Hawk23 back, URB/UBR are literally the two remaining high quality roster projects still being updated today. You guys are what we have left when it comes to huge roster projects for 2k14. Recently, we are also lucky to have another passionate modder nyflava2k9 join us and contribute to this niche community and I'm glad he's here. Let's not start throwing dirt at this point and discourage anyone from contributing to the modding community for 2k14? I won't go as far as saying everyone should collaborate or make this open source, but at this point, let's potentially consider setting aside our differences "for the greater good", because this is really a small community that will only get smaller?


Agreed, hope you guys can come to some sort of resolution on credit or something. Accurate sim stats do nothing but help both mods do what they were intended to.
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:53 am

Sure, I see where you guys are coming from. The community is better served with multiple projects and accurate sim stats do help the gamer's experience. No question about either.

The compromise is to have two separate projects.

I would have said yes to allowing my work to be used if it was obtained honestly and transparently.

Since it was done through deceit and without permission, the answer is and will be no.

Mavs4Life and Tommyhtc, I've sent you both a PM. I will not directly advertise our mod in another modder's thread.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 am

slimm44 wrote:Sure, I see where you guys are coming from. The community is better served with multiple projects and accurate sim stats do help the gamer's experience. No question about either.

The compromise is to have two separate projects.

I would have said yes to allowing my work to be used if it was obtained honestly and transparently.

Since it was done through deceit and without permission, the answer is and will be no.

Mavs4Life and Tommyhtc, I've sent you both a PM. I will not directly advertise our mod in another modder's thread.


Slimm, if he didn't use your exact work.... how is it stealing?

Many are influenced by others around here, Christ... the UBR got me into modding to begin with. I wouldn't even be on the NLSC if I hadn't discovered it in 2013. So if he's influenced by your work (Which is a compliment) but uses his own ratings/tendencies, how can you tell him that he can't do that? He may use your ideas as a baseline (LIke, having a attribute low to increase the likelihood of X stat being realistic), but how are you going to police that? That is something we ALL do.

We are community, we work together. I love both projects, I play the crap out of you and Skos 2K13 URB, and I have the UBR installed on 2K14 and play that. I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing. We are all influenced by eachother, you can't really tell someone to not make accurate ratings/tendencies because you think they were influenced by your work. That's not fair.
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:07 am

Dee4Three wrote:
slimm44 wrote:Sure, I see where you guys are coming from. The community is better served with multiple projects and accurate sim stats do help the gamer's experience. No question about either.

The compromise is to have two separate projects.

I would have said yes to allowing my work to be used if it was obtained honestly and transparently.

Since it was done through deceit and without permission, the answer is and will be no.

Mavs4Life and Tommyhtc, I've sent you both a PM. I will not directly advertise our mod in another modder's thread.


Slimm, if he didn't use your exact work.... how is it stealing?

Many are influenced by others around here, Christ... the UBR got me into modding to begin with. I wouldn't even be on the NLSC if I hadn't discovered it in 2013. So if he's influenced by your work (Which is a compliment) but uses his own ratings/tendencies, how can you tell him that he can't do that? He may use your ideas as a baseline (LIke, having a attribute low to increase the likelihood of X stat being realistic), but how are you going to police that? That is something we ALL do.

We are community, we work together. I love both projects, I play the crap out of you and Skos 2K13 URB, and I have the UBR installed on 2K14 and play that. I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing. We are all influenced by eachother, you can't really tell someone to not make accurate ratings/tendencies because you think they were influenced by your work. That's not fair.


I shared with him everything he needed to do it under the explicit understanding that he would not use that information for another project without my permission. By his own admission, he was simply not able to produce accurate sim stats before I shared with him what to do. It wasn't until he had access to my formulas, ideas, spreadsheets, and instructions that he was able to.

It's not an issue of me influencing him, it's an issue of him taking my knowledge through deceit and using it in a way that I did not give permission to. You are right, we all influence each other. However, there is a massive difference between being influenced by someone (usually indirectly) and having someone share what they know because you lead them to believe you are going to help you with a project then they stop communicating and try to take the knowledge that you gave them and use it in a way they promised they wouldn't.

I've said this already, but if he would have been straight with me I would have allowed him to use the knowledge I gave him. He didn't have the decency to do that. Rather, he intended to do the exact opposite until I responded. That's a violation of the written rules of this forum and the unwritten rules of modding...you simply don't take someone else's knowledge and use it without permission. In any other realm it's theft. To reiterate, we're not talking about a simple process that takes a step or two. Figuring out how to "crack the code" of the sim engine then apply it to our project took me YEARS to do. Thousands of hours. There is NO WAY I'm letting someone steal that. Not happening.

I'm interested to know if you agree with where I'm coming from or if you still disagree.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
User avatar
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:15 am

Does anybody else notice the irony that just a few days ago sko and I were accused of using some of UBRs work without permission (which seemed to be the cardinal sin) but now we are being strongly encouraged by members of the community to allow Hawk to use the centerpiece of what makes our mod different without permission?

There is something about having your cake and being able to eat it too that can be applied to this.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
User avatar
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►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:31 am

slimm44 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
slimm44 wrote:Sure, I see where you guys are coming from. The community is better served with multiple projects and accurate sim stats do help the gamer's experience. No question about either.

The compromise is to have two separate projects.

I would have said yes to allowing my work to be used if it was obtained honestly and transparently.

Since it was done through deceit and without permission, the answer is and will be no.

Mavs4Life and Tommyhtc, I've sent you both a PM. I will not directly advertise our mod in another modder's thread.


Slimm, if he didn't use your exact work.... how is it stealing?

Many are influenced by others around here, Christ... the UBR got me into modding to begin with. I wouldn't even be on the NLSC if I hadn't discovered it in 2013. So if he's influenced by your work (Which is a compliment) but uses his own ratings/tendencies, how can you tell him that he can't do that? He may use your ideas as a baseline (LIke, having a attribute low to increase the likelihood of X stat being realistic), but how are you going to police that? That is something we ALL do.

We are community, we work together. I love both projects, I play the crap out of you and Skos 2K13 URB, and I have the UBR installed on 2K14 and play that. I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing. We are all influenced by eachother, you can't really tell someone to not make accurate ratings/tendencies because you think they were influenced by your work. That's not fair.


I shared with him everything he needed to do it under the explicit understanding that he would not use that information for another project without my permission. By his own admission, he was simply not able to produce accurate sim stats before I shared with him what to do. It wasn't until he had access to my formulas, ideas, spreadsheets, and instructions that he was able to.

It's not an issue of me influencing him, it's an issue of him taking my knowledge through deceit and using it in a way that I did not give permission to. You are right, we all influence each other. However, there is a massive difference between being influenced by someone (usually indirectly) and having someone share what they know because you lead them to believe you are going to help you with a project then they stop communicating and try to take the knowledge that you gave them and use it in a way they promised they wouldn't.

I've said this already, but if he would have been straight with me I would have allowed him to use the knowledge I gave him. He didn't have the decency to do that. Rather, he intended to do the exact opposite until I responded. That's a violation of the written rules of this forum and the unwritten rules of modding...you simply don't take someone else's knowledge and use it without permission. In any other realm it's theft. To reiterate, we're not talking about a simple process that takes a step or two. Figuring out how to "crack the code" of the sim engine then apply it to our project took me YEARS to do. Thousands of hours. There is NO WAY I'm letting someone steal that. Not happening.

I'm interested to know if you agree with where I'm coming from or if you still disagree.


I see where you are coming from, but I also disagree with you.

I'm influenced by a lot of things in life, I don't need to ask permission from my influencer when applying what I've learned. It's not an exact copy, he was helped by your ideas, and applied them to the game.

You are great at what you do, ive told you that before. I'm a huge supporter of your project, and I understand why hard feelings might exist especially in light of feeling like you just recently got called out for taking work. But putting that aside, putting this situation in a vacuum (isolating it on its own) I don't think you can tell him NO for releasing work inspired or influenced by you.

By the way, you know how I am about credit. I have a huge supporter of credit, you have probably seen my roster credits section (or when I give credit in videos). So I totally get where you are coming from as well. I just don't see this situation as the same

For example: if I download a roster and love how they did the ratings/tendencies, I may incorporate that person's STRATEGY when doing my own for my rosters. For something like this, I won't reach out to the person asking for his permission to use his tendency/ratings "type", or whatever you want to call it.

Both projects are amazing, you did an outstanding job with the URB (as did Sko), and they continue to do good work here... I think as an isolated incident this isn't stealing on his part, he was influenced and inspired by you, and used some of that inspiration to further the work of this project.
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:49 am

If what you are saying is true, he would not have promised to not use my work without permission in any other project. He obviously knew what he was doing and knew that if he didn't get my permission to use what I shared with him it would be considered stealing. There is no other logical reason for why he would start the conversation off in that manner.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:55 am

slimm44 wrote:If what you are saying is true, he would not have promised to not use my work without permission in any other project. He obviously knew what he was doing and knew that if he didn't get my permission to use what I shared with him it would be considered stealing. There is no other logical reason for why he would start the conversation off in that manner.


He is not using the exact work, and I don't think he would have posted the work in here so openly knowing you are still on the forums, if he thought it was stealing.

He's using your influence in his own work.
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:04 am

Dee4Three wrote:
slimm44 wrote:If what you are saying is true, he would not have promised to not use my work without permission in any other project. He obviously knew what he was doing and knew that if he didn't get my permission to use what I shared with him it would be considered stealing. There is no other logical reason for why he would start the conversation off in that manner.


He is not using the exact work, and I don't think he would have posted the work in here so openly knowing you are still on the forums, if he thought it was stealing.

He's using your influence in his own work.


All he had to do was PM me on FB, on NLSC, or post in our thread.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:06 am

So let me get this straight... it's a problem that I got an idea from you to make a spreadsheet? Even though it uses my own ratings formulas and is completely different than yours? Because that is all that you contributed to my work. Help me and others to understand what exactly I "deceived" you on and stole from you? What exactly did I use of yours that needed permission?

Like, Wow... Lol

I thought you/we were better than that.

Let's be clear: As the [private] messages you posted show, what I asked you for was to use peripheral ratings and tendencies such as spin layup, hook shots etc. for my 2016 & 17 rosters. It's right there in writing. Basically, topical ratings I could've easily came up with on my own or even just left alone as they have no bearing on statistical outputs (which is the whole focus of my rosters). Those fields, which admittedly help polish a roster, are honestly not really of importance to me personally when it comes to my work. Me asking you to use those kind of ratings and tendencies was simply to add a level of polish to my work that had already been mostly completed at that point.

You, I and anyone else with even mid-level knowledge of roster editing know the only ratings that matter for overalls/statistical outputs (what I focus on) are shot ratings, free throws, layups/inside, reb ratings, assists, steals, blocks, OFF/DEF Awareness and to an extent, durability as well. Tendencies such as inside, close, med, 3pt, touches and fouls also affect statistical outputs (although they do not affect overalls). I've known this for years as it was mostly the same on console. You didn't teach me that. Every rating and tendency that I just named, the only ones of importance when it comes to statistical outputs, the whole point of my rosters, I came up with up with those my own.

Anyone, just by simply looking at the spreadsheets you sent me in comparison to the ones I made will easily see they are not the same. Not only do they not look the same, there are clearly more statistical categories incorporated in mine and the formulas are different. Also, your spreadsheets were for 1960s and 70s rosters. Mines was for the 2017 roster. The only similarity is that they are both spreadsheets that covert stats into ratings. That is it. If you invented that method and are the only person doing things that way, kudos to you. I assumed that must be something all mass roster editors do to save time. My mistake if I assumed wrong. I never even thought that much into it honestly as it was so insignificant to me in the grand scheme of what I was doing. I figured that the content in your spreadsheets was what was of importance, not the spreadsheet concept itself. Content in which I have never used to this day, might I add.

But make no mistake...

Your work didn't make my work possible. You simply showed me a quicker way to apply MY WORK to my rosters and gave me some other pointers along the way.

Since you want to "check my math" and me (so you think) for all to see - it's pretty simple. Simple math and scaling. For example, in 2K's default roster the lowest 3 point rating is 25 and the highest is 99 of course. When I simmed seasons using the 2K14 default roster, the highest 3P% I consistently saw was 47% if I'm not mistaken. So, naturally, I figured that must mean 47% = 99 rating (or something close to it) and 0% = 25 rating. The difference (scale) between 25 and 99 is 74. Now divide 74 (highest possible number on scale) by 47 (highest 3 point percentage I consistently saw) and you'll get 1.5 (rounded). Since [basketballreference.com] lists 3pt% stats as ”.000” vs "00.0", I then multiplied 1.5 by 100 which equals out to 150. Still Keep in mind that the lowest you can go in 3pt rating is 25...

That lead me to the 3pt Rating formula of:
(150 * 3pt%) + 25 = 3pt rating
For example:
(150 * .470) + 25 = 97
(150 * .400) + 25 = 85
(150 * .300) + 25 = 70

This isn't always exact as with most players I then still have to go in game, run sims and tweak the rating in game until I get the consistent, desired results. For some players, I also subjectively factor in games played, 3PA and career 3pt% until I get a more deserving rating and/or desirable result.

In did a similar process with most other ratings/tendencies as well.

I've ran literally thousands of sims with my rosters... Quitting to menu...Tweaking a rating of a player by a point or two just because he is producing more/less in real life. Doing this over and over again. "Kevin Durant is getting too many rebounds versus real life, let me go back and subtract from the rebound rating I came up with for him."... This is my thought process. This is how my work and my mind works. I used to do all that in game at first. I calculated ratings with my phones calculator, player by player, before I knew about spreadsheets having the functionality to do that. Do you have any idea how long that took me? Try multiplying what you do by countless hours. I have been doing this since way before PC, way before joining NLSC in 2013 and even much further before knowing who you were.

Before I even became familiar with you, your work, or anyone elses like it for that matter, I had 22 out of 30 teams completed already for my 2016 rosters. Refer to my announcement on page 216 of this thread that clearly shows me posting screen shots with accurate stats well before we were introduced. Yes, coming across others yours and others ideas helped hone and lead to my own ideas. But who here hasn't doesn't done the same? I thought that's what the point of a community is. My mistake.

You paint this picture of me weaseling my way into your good graces to steal your work and claim it as my own behind your back. I'm a grown man bro. You really believe me taking time out of my day was all in deceit just to steal your techniques? How does that sound bro? I didn't even end up releasing my 2017 roster last year which should show you the level of importance to me. And, how much more transparent could I have been with my intentions? I literally messaged you through out, sent you a copy of my spreadsheet and credited you for your ideas.

Let's look big picture though... This is a going on 5 year old basketball video game we're talking about here. Yes, it's a game I love to play and tinker with when I can. But seriously, it's not that deep. I obviously appreciate the artistic value of this game and your work but let's just keep things in perspective here. All this does is make the idea of modding a 5 year old, last gen basketball game seem even more wacker and less fun than what it already is. To add, it hurts me personally to even have to talk to someone who has contributed so much this community in this manner, someone who I personally felt was a solid dude, all just to defend my self against BS accusations that could've easily been disproved by yourself in less than 5 minutes.

You sent your message to my personal Facebook even. Like, why not give me a chance to even respond to that? You obviously know how to reach me after I trusted you with my personal information. You have not a single piece of proof that I stole your work. You know how I know that? Because it didn't happen. You're going off of a hunch... (Or... A grudge against me or someone else I wonder?...)

Whatever this is, it is misguided. I did what I did to help you out of the kindness of my heart and solely in the interest of the community and a game I happen to love playing when time permits. I supported your work with no questions asked even after you gave no support whatsoever to my project and borderline tried to outright discourage my work. I never once complained. I took it in stride. Still helped you. I'm glad the messages you posted show this. Yet, I'm the one who owes you something? Keep in mind, I'm not getting paid for this. I'm not getting cool points for this. I have a life and a family. You more than anyone else should be able to relate to what I do. The research. The hours. All for others.

Like others have stated, let's just get back to what we do. All this extra stuff is nonsensical. Like I said in my last post, if there happens to be anything similar in our mods, something I deem may have maybe been an idea of yours, I'll remove it asap. So next time before you message me directly, to an account with not only my name but also my photo, using words like "deceit", recognize I'm a grown man that you are talking to. Your status on NLSC, your work, your respect go out the window at that point. At least try having some receipts to be back your claims... because I certainly do. Beyond that, I'm sure anybody on here who has both mods could've easily told you that the ratings, tendencies and statistical outputs in both mods are completely different for the 2016 and 2017 rosters (which are literally the only content I've uploaded to date other than a Bobby Hurley CF years ago).

That is all that needs to be said. I will be positing screenshots to clear my name and that is it. I apologize to NLSC, Andrew, Hawk23 and anyone who has had to watch this all play out. I tried my best to stay neutral in what played out on here upon Hawk23's/UBR's return. I literally hadn't been on here in a year, saw Hawk23/UBR was back, walked into what was unfolding and made it a point to stay away from all of that. But I will not have the hard work of my self and others negated.

I will not entertain this any further on this thread and continue take away from UBR. If you feel the need to continue this conversation, even after I've destroyed any argument you had, feel free to do so on your thread.
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:16 am

slimm44 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
slimm44 wrote:If what you are saying is true, he would not have promised to not use my work without permission in any other project. He obviously knew what he was doing and knew that if he didn't get my permission to use what I shared with him it would be considered stealing. There is no other logical reason for why he would start the conversation off in that manner.


He is not using the exact work, and I don't think he would have posted the work in here so openly knowing you are still on the forums, if he thought it was stealing.

He's using your influence in his own work.


All he had to do was PM me on FB, on NLSC, or post in our thread.


My point is, he didn't have to. He didn't use your exact work, he used your influence and applied his own work to the new ideas/schemes. It's his work still, he didn't use your tendencies/ratings from what I am gathering.

You can want him to do that, but you can't strong-arm him for using your influence in his work. The Ultimate Classic Teams Roster on 2K17 I created was inspired by the UBR that I grew attached to in 2013. I probably wouldn't have created that roster had that roster not influenced me at the time. Does that mean I have to ask Hawk for permission? Hell no, its my work/along with the amazing talents like PeacemanNot that helped me.

He can use his ratings/tendencies on a spreadsheet (inspired by you) if he wants, I'm not sure how that can be argued.

I'm going to bow out now, you guys can discuss this if you want via PM. But, if I were Nyflava, I would feel comfortable continuing with the use of his ratings/tendencies for this roster. I don't think he necessarily did anything wrong here.
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:24 am

nyflava2k9 wrote:So let me get this straight... it's a problem that I got an idea from you to make a spreadsheet? Even though it uses my own ratings formulas and is completely different than yours? Because that is all that you contributed to my work. Help me and others to understand what exactly I "deceived" you on and stole from you? What exactly did I use of yours that needed permission?

Like, Wow... Lol

I thought you/we were better than that.

Let's be clear: As the [private] messages you posted show, what I asked you for was to use peripheral ratings and tendencies such as spin layup, hook shots etc. for my 2016 & 17 rosters. It's right there in writing. Basically, topical ratings I could've easily came up with on my own or even just left alone as they have no bearing on statistical outputs (which is the whole focus of my rosters). Those fields, which admittedly help polish a roster, are honestly not really of importance to me personally when it comes to my work. Me asking you to use those kind of ratings and tendencies was simply to add a level of polish to my work that had already been mostly completed at that point.

You, I and anyone else with even mid-level knowledge of roster editing know the only ratings that matter for overalls/statistical outputs (what I focus on) are shot ratings, free throws, layups/inside, reb ratings, assists, steals, blocks, OFF/DEF Awareness and to an extent, durability as well. Tendencies such as inside, close, med, 3pt, touches and fouls also affect statistical outputs (although they do not affect overalls). I've known this for years as it was mostly the same on console. You didn't teach me that. Every rating and tendency that I just named, the only ones of importance when it comes to statistical outputs, the whole point of my rosters, I came up with up with those my own.

Anyone, just by simply looking at the spreadsheets you sent me in comparison to the ones I made will easily see they are not the same. Not only do they not look the same, there are clearly more statistical categories incorporated in mine and the formulas are different. Also, your spreadsheets were for 1960s and 70s rosters. Mines was for the 2017 roster. The only similarity is that they are both spreadsheets that covert stats into ratings. That is it. If you invented that method and are the only person doing things that way, kudos to you. I assumed that must be something all mass roster editors do to save time. My mistake if I assumed wrong. I never even thought that much into it honestly as it was so insignificant to me in the grand scheme of what I was doing. I figured that the content in your spreadsheets was what was of importance, not the spreadsheet concept itself. Content in which I have never used to this day, might I add.

But make no mistake...

Your work didn't make my work possible. You simply showed me a quicker way to apply MY WORK to my rosters and gave me some other pointers along the way.

Since you want to "check my math" and me (so you think) for all to see - it's pretty simple. Simple math and scaling. For example, in 2K's default roster the lowest 3 point rating is 25 and the highest is 99 of course. When I simmed seasons using the 2K14 default roster, the highest 3P% I consistently saw was 47% if I'm not mistaken. So, naturally, I figured that must mean 47% = 99 rating (or something close to it) and 0% = 25 rating. The difference (scale) between 25 and 99 is 74. Now divide 74 (highest possible number on scale) by 47 (highest 3 point percentage I consistently saw) and you'll get 1.5 (rounded). Since [basketballreference.com] lists 3pt% stats as ”.000” vs "00.0", I then multiplied 1.5 by 100 which equals out to 150. Still Keep in mind that the lowest you can go in 3pt rating is 25...

That lead me to the 3pt Rating formula of:
(150 * 3pt%) + 25 = 3pt rating
For example:
(150 * .470) + 25 = 97
(150 * .400) + 25 = 85
(150 * .300) + 25 = 70

This isn't always exact as with most players I then still have to go in game, run sims and tweak the rating in game until I get the consistent, desired results. For some players, I also subjectively factor in games played, 3PA and career 3pt% until I get a more deserving rating and/or desirable result.

In did a similar process with most other ratings/tendencies as well.

I've ran literally thousands of sims with my rosters... Quitting to menu...Tweaking a rating of a player by a point or two just because he is producing more/less in real life. Doing this over and over again. "Kevin Durant is getting too many rebounds versus real life, let me go back and subtract from the rebound rating I came up with for him."... This is my thought process. This is how my work and my mind works. I used to do all that in game at first. I calculated ratings with my phones calculator, player by player, before I knew about spreadsheets having the functionality to do that. Do you have any idea how long that took me? Try multiplying what you do by countless hours. I have been doing this since way before PC, way before joining NLSC in 2013 and even much further before knowing who you were.

Before I even became familiar with you, your work, or anyone elses like it for that matter, I had 22 out of 30 teams completed already for my 2016 rosters. Refer to my announcement on page 216 of this thread that clearly shows me posting screen shots with accurate stats well before we were introduced. Yes, coming across others yours and others ideas helped hone and lead to my own ideas. But who here hasn't doesn't done the same? I thought that's what the point of a community is. My mistake.

You paint this picture of me weaseling my way into your good graces to steal your work and claim it as my own behind your back. I'm a grown man bro. You really believe me taking time out of my day was all in deceit just to steal your techniques? How does that sound bro? I didn't even end up releasing my 2017 roster last year which should show you the level of importance to me. And, how much more transparent could I have been with my intentions? I literally messaged you through out, sent you a copy of my spreadsheet and credited you for your ideas.

Let's look big picture though... This is a going on 5 year old basketball video game we're talking about here. Yes, it's a game I love to play and tinker with when I can. But seriously, it's not that deep. I obviously appreciate the artistic value of this game and your work but let's just keep things in perspective here. All this does is make the idea of modding a 5 year old, last gen basketball game seem even more wacker and less fun than what it already is. To add, it hurts me personally to even have to talk to someone who has contributed so much this community in this manner, someone who I personally felt was a solid dude, all just to defend my self against BS accusations that could've easily been disproved by yourself in less than 5 minutes.

You sent your message to my personal Facebook even. Like, why not give me a chance to even respond to that? You obviously know how to reach me after I trusted you with my personal information. You have not a single piece of proof that I stole your work. You know how I know that? Because it didn't happen. You're going off of a hunch... (Or... A grudge against me or someone else I wonder?...)

Whatever this is, it is misguided. I did what I did to help you out of the kindness of my heart and solely in the interest of the community and a game I happen to love playing when time permits. I supported your work with no questions asked even after you gave no support whatsoever to my project and borderline tried to outright discourage my work. I never once complained. I took it in stride. Still helped you. I'm glad the messages you posted show this. Yet, I'm the one who owes you something? Keep in mind, I'm not getting paid for this. I'm not getting cool points for this. I have a life and a family. You more than anyone else should be able to relate to what I do. The research. The hours. All for others.

Like others have stated, let's just get back to what we do. All this extra stuff is nonsensical. Like I said in my last post, if there happens to be anything similar in our mods, something I deem may have maybe been an idea of yours, I'll remove it asap. So next time before you message me directly, to an account with not only my name but also my photo, using words like "deceit", recognize I'm a grown man that you are talking to. Your status on NLSC, your work, your respect go out the window at that point. At least try having some receipts to be back your claims... because I certainly do. Beyond that, I'm sure anybody on here who has both mods could've easily told you that the ratings, tendencies and statistical outputs in both mods are completely different for the 2016 and 2017 rosters (which are literally the only content I've uploaded to date other than a Bobby Hurley CF years ago).

That is all that needs to be said. I will be positing screenshots to clear my name and that is it. I apologize to NLSC, Andrew, Hawk23 and anyone who has had to watch this all play out. I tried my best to stay neutral in what played out on here upon Hawk23's/UBR's return. I literally hadn't been on here in a year, saw Hawk23/UBR was back, walked into what was unfolding and made it a point to stay away from all of that. But I will not have the hard work of my self and others negated.

I will not entertain this any further on this thread and continue take away from UBR. If you feel the need to continue this conversation, even after I've destroyed any argument you had, feel free to do so on your thread.


You contacted me on April 10th and acknowledged you didn't know what you were doing. You sent me a spreadsheet with "your" information on April 28th.

But..."I've ran literally thousands of sims with my rosters... Quitting to menu...Tweaking a rating of a player by a point or two just because he is producing more/less in real life. Doing this over and over again. "Kevin Durant is getting too many rebounds versus real life, let me go back and subtract from the rebound rating I came up with for him."... This is my thought process. This is how my work and my mind works. I used to do all that in game at first. I calculated ratings with my phones calculator, player by player, before I knew about spreadsheets having the functionality to do that. Do you have any idea how long that took me? Try multiplying what you do by countless hours. I have been doing this since way before PC, way before joining NLSC in 2013 and even much further before knowing who you were. "

When you first messaged me you didn't know how to find tendencies, rebound ratings, determine 3pt ratings, steals, blocks, or any other data that wasn't always tracked.

"I trust your methods so I will initially get all players in line for each position tendency wise and work from there tonight. I think you're spot on about the 3 pointers for those positions as well. Like you said, surely they weren't dead eye from that range but I'm sure they were moderately capable. With 3 point tendency turned down, the CPU shouldnt attempt them regardless and -20 will give so minor capability to entice people to attempt 3s against three CPU, but overall still more realistic to have something in place IMO. You are correct on ORB and DRB not being tracked before then as well. I can follow along as close to DEF/OFF rebound ratio to the example you gave as well. I can also follow those. guidelines for the steals as well. And yes, I meant basketball reference lol"

But it took you 18 days to come up with your formulas?

OK, dude.

Whatever you say.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
User avatar
slimm44
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:31 am

Do you see the file named "ZFinally"? That was my final version of my 2017 Roster. It wasn't released until 5 days ago. A year late. Just the name of the files and others around it will give you a hint of how long this took me...
Image
This following are screenshots of simmed seasons using the 2K14 Default Roster. Notice how the league leaders in 3 pointers are around 47 percent. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower. 47 percent was the mean after countless sims though...
Image
Image
The following is a copy of my final ratings for Sixers in the 2017 Roster that was released last week...
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The following is a copy of ratings for the Sixers from your mod, the URB. Way different... Even heights and weights...
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The following is ratings including even some peripheral ratings for Bucks players in my 2017 roster...
Image
Image
The following is ratings including even some peripheral ratings for Bucks players from your 2017 roster. Notice I didn't even use the peripherals I asked you to use. I respected your wishes...
Image
Image
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Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:31 am

Duplicate
Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:31 am

Duplicate
Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:36 am

We really don't need to go any further than this, though. You offered data entry. You didn't even know where to find the stats, as in one post you talked about getting them from Bleacher Report and I asked if you meant Basketball-Reference, at which you replied yes. The mid-level skills were not in developing formulas or figuring out 2k's scales, it was in data entry. You were asking for help on how to enter data faster than cell-by-cell.

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Read that last sentence again for emphasis.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:38 am

slimm44 wrote:But it took you 18 days to come up with your formulas?

OK, dude.

Whatever you say.


Bro, I first started posting my statistical outputs which were way more accurate than yours and still are back in January 2016. Refer to page 216 on this thread. Me and you, by your own admission didn't even start working together until April 2017. Who ever said it took me 18 days? What I learned from you in those not even 3 weeks was a drop in the bucket compared to what I already had. You can see back in 2016 I was already posting shot charts for players on this thread. Before I even knew who you were. It's right there for anyone to see and you're just making yourself look even more ridiculous asserting that you made my work possible. Facts are facts bro. You're wrong on this one.
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Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:42 am

It's up to Andrew and/or Hawk. Hawk oversees this project, Andrew oversees NLSC.

Only Andrew or Hawk gets to decide if stolen work is released or the integrity of the modding community is kept intact.

There's no more reason to discuss it.

I'll wait to hear from one of them.
Last edited by slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:45 am

slimm44 wrote:We really don't need to go any further than this, though. You offered data entry. You didn't even know where to find the stats, as in one post you talked about getting them from Bleacher Report and I asked if you meant Basketball-Reference, at which you replied yes. The mid-level skills were not in developing formulas or figuring out 2k's scales, it was in data entry. You were asking for help on how to enter data faster than cell-by-cell.

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Read that last sentence again for emphasis.


You're really trying to use me misspeaking and saying Bleacher Report instead of Basketball Reference against me? :applaud: Like, who do you think you are? You aren't as unique as you think you are bro. I found that out myself, caught flack from others and was informed I wasnt the only one going in depth on ratings and was able to humble myself to others who do similar work to me. Way back on Page 216. Way back in January of 2016, before I even knew who you were, I was posting shot charts for players from Vorp... You seriously think I didn't know what basketball reference was? Your argument is sinking. Your rosters didn't even have any emphasis on 2K overalls or statistical outputs before I started sharing my work. Now, they do. Should I ask you to credit me for that? No, it ridiculous.

As for those spread sheets...
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Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:53 am

"As for those spread sheets"...

If you are referring to the ones you "helped" on, I didn't use those.

I hadn't started implementing them before you stopped communicating and I started over from scratch. You had entered a small amount of data in the the first two teams of one spreadsheet, you pasted statistical data (in an almost unreadable job) in another, and used what I shared with you in regards to spreadsheets to paste the 1961 per36 minute stats.
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:04 am

I took you up on it and started looking through your old posts. This is good reading!

In January of 2016 you did reference "thousands" of season sims and had 8 teams "done". Sounds tedious.

Then, you posted this in early February of 2016 in the URB thread.

"Slimm44 and Sko... You guys are the F'ing truth. Amazing work on you guys end! :applaud: The amount of detail you guys already had in your roster in conjunction with these new updates are mind blowing. Again, I can't stress enough that when I previously brought up statistical output that it wasn't in the spirit of knocking your work by any stretch, rather it was just to start a conversation on this topic to see if we can take the realism a step even further... You guys delivered big time! Please understand that I truthfully just wasn't aware of all the research and data that was compiled to make your rosters when I made my initial announcement/call for realistic statistical outputs. I stand corrected and have since started reading over previous threads on nlsc/os in regards to ratings/tendencies. I'm learning alot and am blown away by the sheer depth of everything so I owe you a big thanks as far as sharing your research with the community to help others like my self. I haven't been able to get much done these past few days (my grandfather had a heart attack but is recovering thank god) but I'm plan to get you the ratings/tendencies you requested for the aforementioned players within the next few days, Slimm44. I am really looking forward to you letting me know what areas I can improve on and the do's and don'ts. I highly doubt it but who knows, maybe some of my research can be helpful to you as well. Again, this is F'ing awesome what you guys have done. Much respect!"

But you had it all figured out before reaching out to me for tips, right?
Image Image Image

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [38 Complete Seasons Mods]

Image

2019/2020 2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015 2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011
2009/2010 2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001
1999/2000 1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995 1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991
1989/1990 1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985 1969/1970 1961/1962


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1303
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

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