Slimm44's 2k14 Editing Guide and Roster Project

[pierralban]

Ok, glad to here that, i need it to make my draft classes compatible with it. I can't really go forward without your roster

[slimm44]

Ok, glad to here that, i need it to make my draft classes compatible with it. I can't really go forward without your roster

OK. Hoping to have it all ready soon. There are quite a few things we are changing, mainly to subjective ratings and tendencies. We've also found ways to develop ratings/tendencies that used to be subjective with statistics.

[npetroo]

OK. Hoping to have it all ready soon. There are quite a few things we are changing, mainly to subjective ratings and tendencies. We've also found ways to develop ratings/tendencies that used to be subjective with statistics.

Can you update your 2014 editing guide with this new info, please?
It is fantastic guide, btw!
Thanks for that.

[manustyle90]

love the work you do slimm! atm i've already started an association with a custom roster (with missing players from han and kova's rosters) and i'm manually updating the playbooks according to your guide. will you also share more stuff like global tendency sliders and coach profiles? or will it all be include only in the roster file?

[slimm44]

love the work you do slimm! atm i've already started an association with a custom roster (with missing players from han and kova's rosters) and i'm manually updating the playbooks according to your guide. will you also share more stuff like global tendency sliders and coach profiles? or will it all be include only in the roster file?

Once roster is released I don't mind releasing a spreadsheet with all information on it.

I will also update the editing guide with the info when it's complete.

[Angelo]

Looking forward for this bro slimm

[slimm44]

A new version of the Editing Guide has been posted. This is a "rough notes" list of the changes.

A sample page where we got these statistics is found at:

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...PerMode=Totals

To navigate to other players besides Durant:

Click Players
Click on name of player
Click Stats
Click General Stats -----> Click Shooting
Stats are on this page

All Stats for this came from NBA.com
Layup Rating = Driving Layup % +10, if player shot no driving layups you can use overall Layup %. Should never be higher than Standing Layup Ratings.
“New Layup Ratings”(Euro, Hop Step, Etc) = Layup ratings – 10 for athletic players. For Bigs I have these set to 25 unless they are know to be more athletic than that. EX. Thad Young is a PF he has Layup Rating - 10
Post Fadeaway – Use Turnaround Fadeaway Shot % based on Inside % chart in guide (I had to expand it on the low side), not sure all turnaround fadeaways are from the post, but I don't know what else to use
Hook Shot – Use Hook Shot % and Inside Scale
*Remember these are post shots a surprising number of players will have 25 in both these as they do not post or shoot post shots. I am not going to start making up ratings for players after putting all this effort into making them as realistic as possible

Speed and Quickness measurements found at: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-...0&pos=0&sort=1

Speed and Quickness - New Scales from last night:
Speed Scale - based on 3/4 court sprint speed on Draft Express

99 - 2.95 or faster
95 - 3.05
90 - 3.15
85 - 3.25
80 - 3.35
75 - 3.45
70 - 3.55
65 - 3.65
60 - 3.75
55 - 3.85
50- 3.95
45 - 4.05
40 - 4.15
35 - 4.25
30 - 4.35
25- 4.45 or slower


Quickness Scale: based off lane agility drill

8.5-99
8.9-95
9.3-90
9.7-85
10.1-80
10.5-75
10.9-70
11.3-65
11.7-60
12.1-55
12.5-50
12.9-45
13.3-40
13.7-35
14.1-35
14.5-30
14.9-25

Tendencies: I looked at several shot types and used my judgement for a lot of this. For example, if a player only shot a handful of pull-up jumpers I gave them a low pull-up tendency
For TT tendencies I went with All 4 total 100 system, so for example: Thaddeus Young TT tendencies are: PF=5 TT=10 TT Shot=10 No TT= 75
For Shot Types, we looked at the # of these types of shots the player took on NBA.com.
I'll keep it really simple for now: Lets say a player took 100 jump shots and 5 of them were fadeaways, that means 5% of his total jumpshots were fadeaways so in fadeaway tendency he gets a 5.
Same for the others, if the same player shot 15 step back j's that tendency would be 15
I used turnaround jumpshots(non-fadeaway) for Spin J's.
One thing I noticed was that, regardless of what people think they see on TV, according to NBA.com, these type of shots do not occur often for 99% of players
For Dunk(v layup) I took layups shots taken+dunks, then found what the % dunks was of that total: 90 layups + 10 dunks = 100, 10 is 10% of 100 so this player gets a 10 dunk tenedency Real Life example: T. Young - 42 Dunks+219 Layups=261 42 is 16% of 261 so he has a 16 dunk tendency
Alley oops = total # of oops attempted(top of NBA.com stats)
I added Bank jump shot and Bank Hook Shot to get Use Glass tenedency
For Post Shots I used this to set to Post Shots(overall) tend. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...MR3dCU0E#gid=0
For Post Hook and Fadeaway I just used the raw attempt numbers.

So if a player took 67 hook shots and 12 turnaround fadeaways:
Post Hook=67
Post Fade=12

I put shimmy and hop shots to zero for the time being, you could split the Fades in half or partially for shimmy shots if you want.

[slimm44]

My plan is to finish tweaking the Bulls, Heat, Lakers, Mavericks, Nets, Pacers, Rockets, Thunder, Warriors, and Wizards, then release the roster file so you guys can see what I'm seeing. I'll also release a finalized set of CPU vs. CPU settings as well as a rough copy of the Hum Vs. CPU settings I use. They will need to be tweaked.

[SC1211]

This sounds epic!

[manustyle90]

slimm, you are the solution

[Rosque]

Can't wait. This and realistc draft class will make for best Association experience ever

[slimm44]

Guys, you're heaping some high praise on the project. I don't know if it'll live up to the expectations, but I can say definitively this is going to be the most in-depth, comprehensive project I've ever done. I have two more teams to tweak and I'll be able to release the first rough draft with about 1/3 of the teams most of the way done. I still have some work to do on momentum shots, layup rating, dunk tendency, and post shot tendencies, but I'll probably wait until REDitor to come out to do a lot more editing. This is very time-consuming and tedious work.

[Medevenx]

Like what I posted in my thread, I made a body type changes, muscle tone changes, skin tone changes list that seems to be accurate.

Code: Select all

Body Type Changes

AJ Price (Normal to Slim)
Andre Miller (Normal to Slim)
Chris Kaman (Normal to Slim)
David Lee (Normal to Slim)
David West (Normal to Athletic)
Derek Fisher (Athletic to Normal)
Derrick Favors (Normal to Slim)
Derrick Rose (Normal to Slim)
Derrick Williams (Slim to Normal)
Donald Sloan (Slim to Normal)
Eric Bledsoe (Slim to Normal)
Evan Turner (Slim to Normal)
Kenneth Faried (Slim to Normal)
Kobe Bryant (Normal to Slim)
Luol Deng (Slim to Normal)
Matt Bonner (Normal to Slim)
Nerlens Noel (Slim to Normal)
Nick Collison (Normal to Slim)
Roy Hibbert (Slim to Normal)
Shawne Williams (Normal to Slim)
Tim Duncan (Normal to Slim)
Tobias Harris (Slim to Normal)
Victor Oladipo (Slim to Normal)

Muscle Tone Changes

Eric Bledsoe (Buff to Ripped)
Jimmer Fredette (Buff to Ripped)
Kemba Walker (Buff to Ripped)
Kwame Brown (Ripped to Buff)
Kwame Brown (Ripped to Buff)
LeBron James (Buff to Ripped)
Rajon Rondo (Buff to Ripped)
Russell Westbrook (Buff to Ripped)
Xavier Henry (Buff to Ripped)

Skin Tone Changes

Derrick Williams (Darker)
Eric Bledsoe (Darker)
Chuck Hayes (Darker)

I hope this saves you some time when editing and with the same values for the skin tones for those 3 other players, our rosters can still share the same cyberface file making it compatible for both rosters.

You can also borrow the gear and team colors from my roster. Then again, we both don't have Roster Editor so we're pretty much handicapped and really limited on what we can do right now with roster editing. Like I said in my thread I hope to release the best overall experience for everyone this season that's why the appearance changes I made are posted publicly.

Here's to a good season for both of us!

[slimm44]

Like what I posted in my thread, I made a body type changes, muscle tone changes, skin tone changes list that seems to be accurate.

Code: Select all

Body Type Changes

AJ Price (Normal to Slim)
Andre Miller (Normal to Slim)
Chris Kaman (Normal to Slim)
David Lee (Normal to Slim)
David West (Normal to Athletic)
Derek Fisher (Athletic to Normal)
Derrick Favors (Normal to Slim)
Derrick Rose (Normal to Slim)
Derrick Williams (Slim to Normal)
Donald Sloan (Slim to Normal)
Eric Bledsoe (Slim to Normal)
Evan Turner (Slim to Normal)
Kenneth Faried (Slim to Normal)
Kobe Bryant (Normal to Slim)
Luol Deng (Slim to Normal)
Matt Bonner (Normal to Slim)
Nerlens Noel (Slim to Normal)
Nick Collison (Normal to Slim)
Roy Hibbert (Slim to Normal)
Shawne Williams (Normal to Slim)
Tim Duncan (Normal to Slim)
Tobias Harris (Slim to Normal)
Victor Oladipo (Slim to Normal)

Muscle Tone Changes

Eric Bledsoe (Buff to Ripped)
Jimmer Fredette (Buff to Ripped)
Kemba Walker (Buff to Ripped)
Kwame Brown (Ripped to Buff)
Kwame Brown (Ripped to Buff)
LeBron James (Buff to Ripped)
Rajon Rondo (Buff to Ripped)
Russell Westbrook (Buff to Ripped)
Xavier Henry (Buff to Ripped)

Skin Tone Changes

Derrick Williams (Darker)
Eric Bledsoe (Darker)
Chuck Hayes (Darker)

I hope this saves you some time when editing and with the same values for the skin tones for those 3 other players, our rosters can still share the same cyberface file making it compatible for both rosters.

You can also borrow the gear and team colors from my roster. Then again, we both don't have Roster Editor so we're pretty much handicapped and really limited on what we can do right now with roster editing. Like I said in my thread I hope to release the best overall experience for everyone this season that's why the appearance changes I made are posted publicly.

Here's to a good season for both of us!

Thanks, Med. I really appreciate it. This year's game is pretty good, man. I don't know how much time you've had to play.

[Medevenx]

I've played probably about... 4 full games lol. I haven't even tried the other modes like Association or Blacktop so it's gonna be hard to do roster editing gameplay-wise. Let's hope Potential hasn't been changed too since it's a key aspect of Association.

[slimm44]

I've played probably about... 4 full games lol. I haven't even tried the other modes like Association or Blacktop so it's gonna be hard to do roster editing gameplay-wise. Let's hope Potential hasn't been changed too since it's a key aspect of Association.

It has. Ill try to find a few posts I made on OS about it.

[slimm44]

This is the info I have on Potential.

I've done some preliminary testing on Potential and what I've found is not encouraging.

Testing Otto Porter (with an overall of 70 and a Potential rating of 65), I found that after the first season his Potential rating increased to a 72 (which is also what his overall rating increased to). His overall increased because 10-12 ratings increased by one point per. The single-point increase in random ratings continued until year 8, but it appears that every other year about half of the ratings that increased by a point also decreased by a point to neutralize any real progression, thereby causing the overall rating to stay the same.

At year 8, due to a decrease in playing time (going from 33 MPG to 12 MPG), he had several random ratings decrease by one point each and his overall dropped 1 point. During the beginning of the next several seasons I made sure he had around 33 MPG and no ratings changed at all. My theory is that, as a player gets older, playing time directly effects the rate at which the player regresses moreso than production, but it could be tied to either.

I did a second (shorter) test with Otto Porter with a 95 potential rating. After the first year, I found that EVERY rating (except potential) increased by 3-5 points. This occurred for the first 3-4 years that I tested. What I noticed is, with Potential at 95, if a rating is under 85 it will increase by 5-6 points per year, if a rating is between 85-90 it will increase by 3-4 points, and if a rating is above 90 it will increase by 2-3 points. EVERY RATING DOES THIS BESIDES POTENTIAL.

I haven't tested it far enough, but if a player does continue to progress at this rate for the first 7 hears he is in the league (if given playing time), he could theoretically see a 35 point increase IN EVERY RATING. I will do a little more testing to see if this theory is valid or not.

I am strongly considering setting potential rating equal to or slightly higher than the overall rating a player starts out with to avoid a ridiculous skewing of ratings over time and only allowing controlled progression during Association mode through the use of practice drills and the end-of-the-year camp (can't remember what it is off the top of my head).

Progression also doesn't appear to be based on a logical progression of ratings. Otto Porter is an All-Around SF/PF (in the 65 potential test) in my roster and the ratings that increased the first year were 3PT, Dunk, Eurostep, Runner, Step Through, Post Fade, Post HOok, Handling, Off Hand, Pass, On Ball D, Low Post D, OFF AWA, Stamina, Strength, Vertical, and Emotion. With a 95 potential EVERY rating increased. Every one. I'm assuming that if I ran enough tests I could determine how many and which ratings increased based on what rating Potential is set at but I doubt I'm going to go that deep.

In case you are concerned about stats if a player doesn't progress very much (as Porter didn't with 65 Potential), his stats in the years 3-5 were:

33 MPG, 12.7PPG, 6.3RPG, 3.4APG, 1.5SPG, 1.2 BPG, 41.7FG%, 28.4 3PT%
34.6 MPG, 14.3PPG, 6.5RPG, 4.3APG, 1.3SPG, .9BPG, 44.2FG%, 30.1 3PT%
35 MPG, 14.6PPG, 6.7RPG, 3.5APG, 1.3SPG, .9BPG, 45.5FG%, 31.9 3PT%

I gave him ratings/tendencies similar to a young Tayshaun Prince who's numbers in years 3-5 were:

37 MPG, 14.7PPG, 5.3RPG, 3APG, .7SPG, .9BPG, 48.7FG%, 34.1 3PT%
35.3 MPG, 14.1PPG, 4.2RPG, 2.3APG, .8SPG, .5BPG, 45.5FG%, 35 3PT%
36.6 MPG, 14.3PPG, 5.2RPG, 2.8APG, .6SPG, .7BLK, 46FG%, 38.63PT%

The progression with 95 potential slowed to 2-3 points per rating (and nearly every rating increased) after the 4th season and to 1-2 points per rating (and nearly every rating) after the 5th season. The beginning of the 4th season he was a 93 overall which was nearly equal to his Potential rating. I think the gap between overall rating and Potential Rating is what determines how fast a player develops.

In this test, Porter progressed in the following manner:

Years 1-3 5 Points per rating if under 85, 3-4 points per rating if between 85 and 90, 2-3 points per rating if above 90. His overall Rating at the end of year 3 was 92.

Years 4-7 1-2 points per rating regardless of what the rating was. It seems the progression slows to not allow the Overall Rating to not go past the Potential rating and vice versa. At the end of year 7 his Overall Rating was 95 which matched his potential.

In year 8, he decreased by 1 in several ratings and his overall rating dropped to a 94.

Everything stayed the same in year 9.

I am not going to test anymore right now, but the Progression in both tests lasted from years 1-7, there was a slight decrease in year 8, then a plateau beginning in year 9. I would assume this plateau lasts for 3-4 years, then a slight regression (probably 1-2 points per rating for random ratings) occurs until retirement.

In the test with 95 Potential, his 3-5 season stats were:

35MPG, 18.1PPG, 8RPG, 3.7APG, 1.4SPG, 1.3BPG, 45.7FG%, 32.73PT%, 80FT%
35.4MPG, 20.2PPG, 8.1RPG, 3.9APG, 1.5SPG, 1.4BPG, 47.5FG%, 38.53PT%, 84.1FT%
36.1MPG, 18.2PPG, 8.1RPG, 3.4APG, 1.5SPG, 1.4BPG, 48.7FG%, 42.43PT%, 83FT%

His Take Shot Tendency also increased to From 52 to 74, his 3PT Tendency increased from 30 to 53, and his Touches Tendency increased from 57 to 77.

[slimm44]

The super early Beta-Roster, Hum vs. CPU settings, and CPU vs. CPU settings have been uploaded to the first post.

[buzzy]

I'm gonna play a game right now!

[pierralban]

This is the info I have on Potential.

I've done some preliminary testing on Potential and what I've found is not encouraging.

Testing Otto Porter (with an overall of 70 and a Potential rating of 65), I found that after the first season his Potential rating increased to a 72 (which is also what his overall rating increased to). His overall increased because 10-12 ratings increased by one point per. The single-point increase in random ratings continued until year 8, but it appears that every other year about half of the ratings that increased by a point also decreased by a point to neutralize any real progression, thereby causing the overall rating to stay the same.

At year 8, due to a decrease in playing time (going from 33 MPG to 12 MPG), he had several random ratings decrease by one point each and his overall dropped 1 point. During the beginning of the next several seasons I made sure he had around 33 MPG and no ratings changed at all. My theory is that, as a player gets older, playing time directly effects the rate at which the player regresses moreso than production, but it could be tied to either.

I did a second (shorter) test with Otto Porter with a 95 potential rating. After the first year, I found that EVERY rating (except potential) increased by 3-5 points. This occurred for the first 3-4 years that I tested. What I noticed is, with Potential at 95, if a rating is under 85 it will increase by 5-6 points per year, if a rating is between 85-90 it will increase by 3-4 points, and if a rating is above 90 it will increase by 2-3 points. EVERY RATING DOES THIS BESIDES POTENTIAL.

I haven't tested it far enough, but if a player does continue to progress at this rate for the first 7 hears he is in the league (if given playing time), he could theoretically see a 35 point increase IN EVERY RATING. I will do a little more testing to see if this theory is valid or not.

I am strongly considering setting potential rating equal to or slightly higher than the overall rating a player starts out with to avoid a ridiculous skewing of ratings over time and only allowing controlled progression during Association mode through the use of practice drills and the end-of-the-year camp (can't remember what it is off the top of my head).

Progression also doesn't appear to be based on a logical progression of ratings. Otto Porter is an All-Around SF/PF (in the 65 potential test) in my roster and the ratings that increased the first year were 3PT, Dunk, Eurostep, Runner, Step Through, Post Fade, Post HOok, Handling, Off Hand, Pass, On Ball D, Low Post D, OFF AWA, Stamina, Strength, Vertical, and Emotion. With a 95 potential EVERY rating increased. Every one. I'm assuming that if I ran enough tests I could determine how many and which ratings increased based on what rating Potential is set at but I doubt I'm going to go that deep.

In case you are concerned about stats if a player doesn't progress very much (as Porter didn't with 65 Potential), his stats in the years 3-5 were:

33 MPG, 12.7PPG, 6.3RPG, 3.4APG, 1.5SPG, 1.2 BPG, 41.7FG%, 28.4 3PT%
34.6 MPG, 14.3PPG, 6.5RPG, 4.3APG, 1.3SPG, .9BPG, 44.2FG%, 30.1 3PT%
35 MPG, 14.6PPG, 6.7RPG, 3.5APG, 1.3SPG, .9BPG, 45.5FG%, 31.9 3PT%

I gave him ratings/tendencies similar to a young Tayshaun Prince who's numbers in years 3-5 were:

37 MPG, 14.7PPG, 5.3RPG, 3APG, .7SPG, .9BPG, 48.7FG%, 34.1 3PT%
35.3 MPG, 14.1PPG, 4.2RPG, 2.3APG, .8SPG, .5BPG, 45.5FG%, 35 3PT%
36.6 MPG, 14.3PPG, 5.2RPG, 2.8APG, .6SPG, .7BLK, 46FG%, 38.63PT%

The progression with 95 potential slowed to 2-3 points per rating (and nearly every rating increased) after the 4th season and to 1-2 points per rating (and nearly every rating) after the 5th season. The beginning of the 4th season he was a 93 overall which was nearly equal to his Potential rating. I think the gap between overall rating and Potential Rating is what determines how fast a player develops.

In this test, Porter progressed in the following manner:

Years 1-3 5 Points per rating if under 85, 3-4 points per rating if between 85 and 90, 2-3 points per rating if above 90. His overall Rating at the end of year 3 was 92.

Years 4-7 1-2 points per rating regardless of what the rating was. It seems the progression slows to not allow the Overall Rating to not go past the Potential rating and vice versa. At the end of year 7 his Overall Rating was 95 which matched his potential.

In year 8, he decreased by 1 in several ratings and his overall rating dropped to a 94.

Everything stayed the same in year 9.

I am not going to test anymore right now, but the Progression in both tests lasted from years 1-7, there was a slight decrease in year 8, then a plateau beginning in year 9. I would assume this plateau lasts for 3-4 years, then a slight regression (probably 1-2 points per rating for random ratings) occurs until retirement.

In the test with 95 Potential, his 3-5 season stats were:

35MPG, 18.1PPG, 8RPG, 3.7APG, 1.4SPG, 1.3BPG, 45.7FG%, 32.73PT%, 80FT%
35.4MPG, 20.2PPG, 8.1RPG, 3.9APG, 1.5SPG, 1.4BPG, 47.5FG%, 38.53PT%, 84.1FT%
36.1MPG, 18.2PPG, 8.1RPG, 3.4APG, 1.5SPG, 1.4BPG, 48.7FG%, 42.43PT%, 83FT%

His Take Shot Tendency also increased to From 52 to 74, his 3PT Tendency increased from 30 to 53, and his Touches Tendency increased from 57 to 77.

Great ! I'll check that, and give you my impressions on it.

[Angelo]

What roster date did you base this from bro slimm?

[slimm44]

September 30, I think.

[pierralban]

Is it normal that Kevin Garnett is 90 ? And Otto Porter better than John Wall ? Just asking

[slimm44]

Is it normal that Kevin Garnett is 90 ? And Otto Porter better than John Wall ? Just asking

Garnett has really high blocking (due to sim engine being stupid), really high OFF/DEF awareness, his speed needs to be dropped (another tweak I need to make), and he has really high shot location ratings aside from 3PT. Aside from his speed, he is still a really good all-around PF.

Besides, don't blame me for how 2k's rating system works.

Porter may have a better overall than Wall, but it doesn't mean he is "better". You know I don't edit players based on overall rating and you know that the overall rating doesn't determine how good a player is.

Have you ran a game yet?

[bigh0rt]

Is it normal that Kevin Garnett is 90 ? And Otto Porter better than John Wall ? Just asking

Garnett has really high blocking (due to sim engine being stupid), really high OFF/DEF awareness, his speed needs to be dropped (another tweak I need to make), and he has really high shot location ratings aside from 3PT. Aside from his speed, he is still a really good all-around PF.

Besides, don't blame me for how 2k's rating system works.

Porter may have a better overall than Wall, but it doesn't mean he is "better". You know I don't edit players based on overall rating and you know that the overall rating doesn't determine how good a player is.

Have you ran a game yet?

I agree 100% with you on not rating players to their Overall. I don't even consider it when rating players. I also don't have your roster in front of me, as I'm at work. However, just looking at Kevin Garnett last season, and the advanced HoopData, among qualified players (20+ Games of 15+ MPG), Garnett ranks 130th in the league in Off. Reb. Rate. Worse than a ton of guards, who aren't even really known as rebounders. The guy is basically useless on the offensive glass. I have no idea what your OReb rating is for him, but it should be probably a 50 or less. On the defensive glass, however, Garnett ranked 15th in the NBA in DRR per 40 Min, so he should be ranked highly in that area (in or around a 90+?). Garnett's days of being a big blocker I believe are over. Maybe he's still living off of reputation. Again, among the same cohort of players last season, Garnett, in Blocks Per 40 Min, ranked just 72nd in the NBA, behind Kevin Durant . He should not have an elite Block Rating in the game. In fact, I'm not even sure he should have an average Block rating in the game. The NBA average is 1.85 Blocks per 40 Min, and Garnett tallied 1.23 last season. He isn't even league average anymore, or at least not last season.

I really love what you're doing, Slimm. Keep up the awesome work.