Formulas

A hub for everything related to NBA 2K14 modding. Releases, previews, requests, and other modding discussion belongs here.

Formulas

Postby slimm44 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:31 am

nyflava2k9 Are you using any of the information you obtained from me a year ago? If so, please stop. If your answer is no, I'd like to know the formulas you are using and how you came up with them.

At this point, I'm having a hard time seeing how you were able to do what you are doing without any influence from my spreadsheet or using it directly.

I hope you aren't using my work without asking for permission.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:44 pm

slimm44 wrote:nyflava2k9 Are you using any of the information you obtained from me a year ago? If so, please stop. If your answer is no, I'd like to know the formulas you are using and how you came up with them.

At this point, I'm having a hard time seeing how you were able to do what you are doing without any influence from my spreadsheet or using it directly.

I hope you aren't using my work without asking for permission.


To answer your question... No. I came up with and am using my own ratings/tendencies formulas.

However, to say that I wasn't influenced/ inspired by your work, I'd be lying. As a community, I'd hope that we could all learn from and be inspired by each others works. I did learn techniques from you (and others on NLSC and Operation Sports amongst others eventually). I have never shied away from that fact and have literally always given you due credit. Even after you told me I'd be wasting my time updating UBR I still put your name on the release credits for my 2016 & 2017 UBR Rosters (last year) just for simply consulting with me prior to that. (Reference page 227 of this thread.)

Yes, the concept of putting multiple players into a spread sheet and plugging in formulas (for times sake) to do ratings conversions came from you. I was so inexperienced in roster modding on this scale at that time, I didn't even know that virtually everybody uses RedMC/Spreadsheets to edit rosters. I literally used to do all my edits in game, player-by-player, as I had done for years prior on console versions. You were the first person to show me a different way. So yes, you did influence/guide me. I have since thanked you repeatedly.

But to be clear, that is the extent of your influence. I came up with the idea of realistic sim stats on my own. (I've tweaked ratings and sim stats since I could remember on console. Even if others were already doing the same, it was not to my knowledge.) I created my own ratings spreadsheet from scratch and added multiple categories unseen in your spreadsheets. I researched, tested and came up with my own formulas. I put those hours in. No one can take that from me.

If you remember clearly, I wasn't even truly familiar with you and your work (or anyone else similar) when I first made my announcement regarding making rosters that have realistic stat outputs. (Page 216 on this thread is where I made that very first announcement.) Mine and yours initial interactions came after that. I was already posting screens with realistic stat outputs before me and you ever spoke, making it a point to use rating systems vastly different than yours.

There has always been an outward disclosure from the very beginning that I wanted my ratings to be more in-line with the 2K/UBR/Meds overalls. One of the big reasons for this was CPU trading and free agent signings in season and association mode. I felt those functions wouldn't work properly with the way your overalls worked. I happened to be right. I have always stuck to that and thus by default have kept our work seperate. I literally could not use your work even if I wanted to. Not only do I not understand your formulas but your ratings system is not in line with what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm not knocking your ratings system whatsoever, it plays great. I'm just pointing out the fact that it would be impossible to use your work and reach my desired effect for 2K/UBR/Meds overalls.

This is all evident by the fact that our overalls and sim outputs are completely different. So different to the point that it prompted me to post my initial screenshots comparing the differences in mods (Also on Page 216). None of this should come as a surprise to you as I sent you a copy of the spreadsheet I created with all my formulas in it... last year. You acknowledged seeing it then. I will be happy to send it to you again if you don't still have it.

Again, my apologies for going awol mid-project over a year ago. I have a life just like everyone else of course. A video game didn't make the cut over an out of state move and being there for my family that I am continuing to add to. It has literally been only a matter of weeks since I have been lucky enough to have time to take a breather.

Let me say this though... If me helping you with 10+ seasons didn't even earn me the benefit of doubt or a private discussion on this matter, then this is all that needs to be said. As little as a contribution it might've been for you, those contributions took hours for me. I will be sure that any semblance of your work will be prioritized for removal. No hard feelings. Take care man. Wish you all the best.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:54 pm

Here is the initial PM you sent me regarding helping convert Pat's project to my ratings/tendencies on April 10, 2017:

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Here was my first response:

"Hey, man. I appreciate the offer to help. If you follow through, you will be the first person I've encounter to help edit the information I edit (ratings, tendencies, etc). I hope you follow through because it will cut my work in half or more. Which would be awesome.

What I need is help looking at basketball-reference.com and doing basic data entry. It's a little tricky for teams prior to 1967 because, up until then, there was no illegal defense call. Teams would camp their big men in the paint which influenced offenses to run and gun like crazy and take a ridiculous amount of low percentage shots (hence the pace, FGA, rebounds, and low FG%) prior to 1967. What I'm thinking about doing is raising all players' FG% by 10 total points for the 1960-61 through 1965-66 seasons to compensate. I know this isn't completely realistic, but if we set player ratings to create accurate sim engine FG%, the overall ratings will plummet and the gameplay will be beyond horrible. I think raising FG% 10 points is a fair adjustment. If you have other ideas, let me know.

Here is a link to the spreadsheet: REDACTED

I need you to fill in the cells that are highlighted yellow.

I will have more time in an hour to explain how to fill it out (there is some guessing involved for the era we are editing and I have methods to share with you to help ensure accuracy for each position). If you receive this before I respond, please download the spreadsheet and look at the 1959-1960 teams on BR to locate where the stats are (if you're not already familiar). Most stats are in the per36 minute section but MPG are in the per game section and AST% is found in the advanced section (starting when that stat was calculated, either late 60's or early 70's, I can't remember which.)

Are you on Facebook?"

This was the introduction to your initial FB message reply:

"I trust your methods so I will initially get all players in line for each position tendency wise and work from there tonight."

Notice, we discussed data entry as I was converting PattheHead's 2k13 project to my ratings and tendencies. I appreciated the help at the time because you stated emphatically that you would not use my work for any other project. I can post the whole conversation and our entire FB conversation if you'd like. I've posted a few comments from our FB conversation lower.

We started conversing on April 10, 2017. You sent me a spreadsheet on April 28th with at-the-time current players (which was the last date that document has been edited, per Google Drive's time/date stamp). What it looks like is from April 10th to April 28th you used my proven methods to develop your own. Then, at some point between April 10th and 28th (18 days), you decided to use them on UBR without my permission. I appreciate the hours and few weeks you helped me with. I did then and I still do. But, by your own admission, the only way that was possible was because of the thousands of hours over several years that I had already put in to get to that point.

In regards to overall ratings, they can easily be changed by editing non-statistical ratings, which I completely overhauled explained to you on FB at the time. All subjective ratings were updated to be more in-line with 2k's rating system.

I'll leave you with one last exchange. This is from April 28, 2017.

You: "Hey man hope all is well. Wanted to let you know I will be getting you everything through 84 done by this weekend. Also, wanted to ask a favor of you... So I did the 2017 season for UBR, but honestly, the gameplay using strictly 2k/Hawks ratings is well.. Not that good to be nice about it lol.. I wanted to request your permission to implement your tendencies into the roster to enhance the gameplay with all credits going to you of course."

Notice in your statement you didn't ask for permission. You decided then to use my work for another project then tell me about it.

Me: "Honestly, it's not going to be worth your time. The primary problem with the gameplay in UBR is the playbooks. Having working playbooks in 2k14 is the most important part of gameplay. 2k14 took me forever to "master" because of the playbooks. I had to test EVERY SINGLE PLAY to find enough that the CPU could actually run without looking STUPID."

Notice in my response I didn't give you permission to use my work. I tried to dissuade you but, obviously, you didn't get the message.

You: "I never considered that but it makes perfect sense. I agree with you as getting into the playbooks isn't something I wouldn't be interested in pouring time into. I'd much rather use that time for URB. The UBR roster is pretty much done anyway so I wasn't planning on putting in much more time anyway, but especially now knowing this about the playbooks I will leave things where they are. I doubt it would even mesh right anyways being as though I'm using 2k/Hawks very arcadish/exaggerated ratings and overalls. With that being said, I've already updated the following ratings using those formulas: shot ratings, lay up/std lay up, O&D reb, passing, steals, blocks, off/def awareness, durability and potential. I've also updated the following tendencies using their system: take shot, shot locations, draw foul, take foul... Would it be fine if for the other residual attributes that I haven't mentioned (speed, on ball defense, hook shot, vertical etc) that I use your ratings for those specifically as a base?"

Here is your last substantive statement to me regarding "your" spreadsheet and our work together.

"Cool. I'm going to be sending you a link. Its a spread sheet I made of my work and it has all my formulas in there. I wanted to send it to you any way for pointers, and also so you can possibly tweak it for your own use. Its basically a ratings converter (got the idea from you) that allows you to copy and paste the per 36 and advanced stats from Basketball reference and the shot location tendencies from nba.con without having to modify tables."

It's obvious that you obtained my knowledge and used my work under the guise of helping me while you were actually gearing up to update UBR. The impressive part is it appears to have taken you 18 days to take my formulas and develop them into your own. Unfortunately, you deceived me into obtaining the information you needed to do it (including the idea of how to set up the spreadsheets).

"I will be sure that any semblance of your work will be prioritized for removal. No hard feelings. "

Maybe I should have been more direct and emphatic about you not using my ideas and/or work for any publicly-released mod at the time. I assumed that when you offered that in your first PM you would honor it. However, you didn't honor your word. You stated that I could have handled this via PM. Yes, I could have handled this privately. However, when you decided to share what I gave you publicly, I decided to put a stop to it publicly. I'm not asking you to try to find another backdoor to use what you obtained from me. It's obviously what you are doing. So, please stop using any information you obtained from working with me and please do not publicly release anything that you have done related to the work you did with me and/or any/all information I shared with you. You do not have my permission.

THIS MEANS DON'T RELEASE ANYTHING AT ALL IF IT'S IN ANY WAY RELATED TO WHAT YOU LEARNED FROM WORKING WITH ME

Hawk and Andrew, I would appreciate it if you ensured this request was followed in both this mod and any other mod on NLSC. I believe I've earned the right to decide where and when my ideas and work get used. Andrew and Hawk, please respond to this post to let me and the community know that you will honor my request to uphold the integrity of this community. Once I see that, I'll log back out and resume transferring the work I have applied to Pat's 1960-1984 rosters to 2k14 for me and Sko's URB project.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Tommyhtc on Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:16 am

For all parties involved in this, I obviously am not in the know enough to judge what exactly happened between you guys, and definitely won't be saying whose fault it is or who's to blame more, but can we all just get along? Not saying people should be free to use each other's works, but it looks like nyflava2k9 has not been unreasonable. But what I see as more important is that with Hawk23 back, URB/UBR are literally the two remaining high quality roster projects still being updated today. You guys are what we have left when it comes to huge roster projects for 2k14. Recently, we are also lucky to have another passionate modder nyflava2k9 join us and contribute to this niche community and I'm glad he's here. Let's not start throwing dirt at this point and discourage anyone from contributing to the modding community for 2k14? I won't go as far as saying everyone should collaborate or make this open source, but at this point, let's potentially consider setting aside our differences "for the greater good", because this is really a small community that will only get smaller?
User avatar
Tommyhtc
 
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:52 pm

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Mavs4Life on Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:16 am

Tommyhtc wrote:For all parties involved in this, I obviously am not in the know enough to judge what exactly happened between you guys, and definitely won't be saying whose fault it is or who's to blame more, but can we all just get along? Not saying people should be free to use each other's works, but it looks like nyflava2k9 has not been unreasonable. But what I see as more important is that with Hawk23 back, URB/UBR are literally the two remaining high quality roster projects still being updated today. You guys are what we have left when it comes to huge roster projects for 2k14. Recently, we are also lucky to have another passionate modder nyflava2k9 join us and contribute to this niche community and I'm glad he's here. Let's not start throwing dirt at this point and discourage anyone from contributing to the modding community for 2k14? I won't go as far as saying everyone should collaborate or make this open source, but at this point, let's potentially consider setting aside our differences "for the greater good", because this is really a small community that will only get smaller?


Agreed, hope you guys can come to some sort of resolution on credit or something. Accurate sim stats do nothing but help both mods do what they were intended to.
User avatar
Mavs4Life
 
Posts: 1492
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:18 pm

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:53 am

Sure, I see where you guys are coming from. The community is better served with multiple projects and accurate sim stats do help the gamer's experience. No question about either.

The compromise is to have two separate projects.

I would have said yes to allowing my work to be used if it was obtained honestly and transparently.

Since it was done through deceit and without permission, the answer is and will be no.

Mavs4Life and Tommyhtc, I've sent you both a PM. I will not directly advertise our mod in another modder's thread.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 am

slimm44 wrote:Sure, I see where you guys are coming from. The community is better served with multiple projects and accurate sim stats do help the gamer's experience. No question about either.

The compromise is to have two separate projects.

I would have said yes to allowing my work to be used if it was obtained honestly and transparently.

Since it was done through deceit and without permission, the answer is and will be no.

Mavs4Life and Tommyhtc, I've sent you both a PM. I will not directly advertise our mod in another modder's thread.


Slimm, if he didn't use your exact work.... how is it stealing?

Many are influenced by others around here, Christ... the UBR got me into modding to begin with. I wouldn't even be on the NLSC if I hadn't discovered it in 2013. So if he's influenced by your work (Which is a compliment) but uses his own ratings/tendencies, how can you tell him that he can't do that? He may use your ideas as a baseline (LIke, having a attribute low to increase the likelihood of X stat being realistic), but how are you going to police that? That is something we ALL do.

We are community, we work together. I love both projects, I play the crap out of you and Skos 2K13 URB, and I have the UBR installed on 2K14 and play that. I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing. We are all influenced by eachother, you can't really tell someone to not make accurate ratings/tendencies because you think they were influenced by your work. That's not fair.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:07 am

Dee4Three wrote:
slimm44 wrote:Sure, I see where you guys are coming from. The community is better served with multiple projects and accurate sim stats do help the gamer's experience. No question about either.

The compromise is to have two separate projects.

I would have said yes to allowing my work to be used if it was obtained honestly and transparently.

Since it was done through deceit and without permission, the answer is and will be no.

Mavs4Life and Tommyhtc, I've sent you both a PM. I will not directly advertise our mod in another modder's thread.


Slimm, if he didn't use your exact work.... how is it stealing?

Many are influenced by others around here, Christ... the UBR got me into modding to begin with. I wouldn't even be on the NLSC if I hadn't discovered it in 2013. So if he's influenced by your work (Which is a compliment) but uses his own ratings/tendencies, how can you tell him that he can't do that? He may use your ideas as a baseline (LIke, having a attribute low to increase the likelihood of X stat being realistic), but how are you going to police that? That is something we ALL do.

We are community, we work together. I love both projects, I play the crap out of you and Skos 2K13 URB, and I have the UBR installed on 2K14 and play that. I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing. We are all influenced by eachother, you can't really tell someone to not make accurate ratings/tendencies because you think they were influenced by your work. That's not fair.


I shared with him everything he needed to do it under the explicit understanding that he would not use that information for another project without my permission. By his own admission, he was simply not able to produce accurate sim stats before I shared with him what to do. It wasn't until he had access to my formulas, ideas, spreadsheets, and instructions that he was able to.

It's not an issue of me influencing him, it's an issue of him taking my knowledge through deceit and using it in a way that I did not give permission to. You are right, we all influence each other. However, there is a massive difference between being influenced by someone (usually indirectly) and having someone share what they know because you lead them to believe you are going to help you with a project then they stop communicating and try to take the knowledge that you gave them and use it in a way they promised they wouldn't.

I've said this already, but if he would have been straight with me I would have allowed him to use the knowledge I gave him. He didn't have the decency to do that. Rather, he intended to do the exact opposite until I responded. That's a violation of the written rules of this forum and the unwritten rules of modding...you simply don't take someone else's knowledge and use it without permission. In any other realm it's theft. To reiterate, we're not talking about a simple process that takes a step or two. Figuring out how to "crack the code" of the sim engine then apply it to our project took me YEARS to do. Thousands of hours. There is NO WAY I'm letting someone steal that. Not happening.

I'm interested to know if you agree with where I'm coming from or if you still disagree.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:15 am

Does anybody else notice the irony that just a few days ago sko and I were accused of using some of UBRs work without permission (which seemed to be the cardinal sin) but now we are being strongly encouraged by members of the community to allow Hawk to use the centerpiece of what makes our mod different without permission?

There is something about having your cake and being able to eat it too that can be applied to this.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:31 am

slimm44 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
slimm44 wrote:Sure, I see where you guys are coming from. The community is better served with multiple projects and accurate sim stats do help the gamer's experience. No question about either.

The compromise is to have two separate projects.

I would have said yes to allowing my work to be used if it was obtained honestly and transparently.

Since it was done through deceit and without permission, the answer is and will be no.

Mavs4Life and Tommyhtc, I've sent you both a PM. I will not directly advertise our mod in another modder's thread.


Slimm, if he didn't use your exact work.... how is it stealing?

Many are influenced by others around here, Christ... the UBR got me into modding to begin with. I wouldn't even be on the NLSC if I hadn't discovered it in 2013. So if he's influenced by your work (Which is a compliment) but uses his own ratings/tendencies, how can you tell him that he can't do that? He may use your ideas as a baseline (LIke, having a attribute low to increase the likelihood of X stat being realistic), but how are you going to police that? That is something we ALL do.

We are community, we work together. I love both projects, I play the crap out of you and Skos 2K13 URB, and I have the UBR installed on 2K14 and play that. I don't see anything wrong with what he is doing. We are all influenced by eachother, you can't really tell someone to not make accurate ratings/tendencies because you think they were influenced by your work. That's not fair.


I shared with him everything he needed to do it under the explicit understanding that he would not use that information for another project without my permission. By his own admission, he was simply not able to produce accurate sim stats before I shared with him what to do. It wasn't until he had access to my formulas, ideas, spreadsheets, and instructions that he was able to.

It's not an issue of me influencing him, it's an issue of him taking my knowledge through deceit and using it in a way that I did not give permission to. You are right, we all influence each other. However, there is a massive difference between being influenced by someone (usually indirectly) and having someone share what they know because you lead them to believe you are going to help you with a project then they stop communicating and try to take the knowledge that you gave them and use it in a way they promised they wouldn't.

I've said this already, but if he would have been straight with me I would have allowed him to use the knowledge I gave him. He didn't have the decency to do that. Rather, he intended to do the exact opposite until I responded. That's a violation of the written rules of this forum and the unwritten rules of modding...you simply don't take someone else's knowledge and use it without permission. In any other realm it's theft. To reiterate, we're not talking about a simple process that takes a step or two. Figuring out how to "crack the code" of the sim engine then apply it to our project took me YEARS to do. Thousands of hours. There is NO WAY I'm letting someone steal that. Not happening.

I'm interested to know if you agree with where I'm coming from or if you still disagree.


I see where you are coming from, but I also disagree with you.

I'm influenced by a lot of things in life, I don't need to ask permission from my influencer when applying what I've learned. It's not an exact copy, he was helped by your ideas, and applied them to the game.

You are great at what you do, ive told you that before. I'm a huge supporter of your project, and I understand why hard feelings might exist especially in light of feeling like you just recently got called out for taking work. But putting that aside, putting this situation in a vacuum (isolating it on its own) I don't think you can tell him NO for releasing work inspired or influenced by you.

By the way, you know how I am about credit. I have a huge supporter of credit, you have probably seen my roster credits section (or when I give credit in videos). So I totally get where you are coming from as well. I just don't see this situation as the same

For example: if I download a roster and love how they did the ratings/tendencies, I may incorporate that person's STRATEGY when doing my own for my rosters. For something like this, I won't reach out to the person asking for his permission to use his tendency/ratings "type", or whatever you want to call it.

Both projects are amazing, you did an outstanding job with the URB (as did Sko), and they continue to do good work here... I think as an isolated incident this isn't stealing on his part, he was influenced and inspired by you, and used some of that inspiration to further the work of this project.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:49 am

If what you are saying is true, he would not have promised to not use my work without permission in any other project. He obviously knew what he was doing and knew that if he didn't get my permission to use what I shared with him it would be considered stealing. There is no other logical reason for why he would start the conversation off in that manner.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:55 am

slimm44 wrote:If what you are saying is true, he would not have promised to not use my work without permission in any other project. He obviously knew what he was doing and knew that if he didn't get my permission to use what I shared with him it would be considered stealing. There is no other logical reason for why he would start the conversation off in that manner.


He is not using the exact work, and I don't think he would have posted the work in here so openly knowing you are still on the forums, if he thought it was stealing.

He's using your influence in his own work.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:04 am

Dee4Three wrote:
slimm44 wrote:If what you are saying is true, he would not have promised to not use my work without permission in any other project. He obviously knew what he was doing and knew that if he didn't get my permission to use what I shared with him it would be considered stealing. There is no other logical reason for why he would start the conversation off in that manner.


He is not using the exact work, and I don't think he would have posted the work in here so openly knowing you are still on the forums, if he thought it was stealing.

He's using your influence in his own work.


All he had to do was PM me on FB, on NLSC, or post in our thread.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:06 am

So let me get this straight... it's a problem that I got an idea from you to make a spreadsheet? Even though it uses my own ratings formulas and is completely different than yours? Because that is all that you contributed to my work. Help me and others to understand what exactly I "deceived" you on and stole from you? What exactly did I use of yours that needed permission?

Like, Wow... Lol

I thought you/we were better than that.

Let's be clear: As the [private] messages you posted show, what I asked you for was to use peripheral ratings and tendencies such as spin layup, hook shots etc. for my 2016 & 17 rosters. It's right there in writing. Basically, topical ratings I could've easily came up with on my own or even just left alone as they have no bearing on statistical outputs (which is the whole focus of my rosters). Those fields, which admittedly help polish a roster, are honestly not really of importance to me personally when it comes to my work. Me asking you to use those kind of ratings and tendencies was simply to add a level of polish to my work that had already been mostly completed at that point.

You, I and anyone else with even mid-level knowledge of roster editing know the only ratings that matter for overalls/statistical outputs (what I focus on) are shot ratings, free throws, layups/inside, reb ratings, assists, steals, blocks, OFF/DEF Awareness and to an extent, durability as well. Tendencies such as inside, close, med, 3pt, touches and fouls also affect statistical outputs (although they do not affect overalls). I've known this for years as it was mostly the same on console. You didn't teach me that. Every rating and tendency that I just named, the only ones of importance when it comes to statistical outputs, the whole point of my rosters, I came up with up with those my own.

Anyone, just by simply looking at the spreadsheets you sent me in comparison to the ones I made will easily see they are not the same. Not only do they not look the same, there are clearly more statistical categories incorporated in mine and the formulas are different. Also, your spreadsheets were for 1960s and 70s rosters. Mines was for the 2017 roster. The only similarity is that they are both spreadsheets that covert stats into ratings. That is it. If you invented that method and are the only person doing things that way, kudos to you. I assumed that must be something all mass roster editors do to save time. My mistake if I assumed wrong. I never even thought that much into it honestly as it was so insignificant to me in the grand scheme of what I was doing. I figured that the content in your spreadsheets was what was of importance, not the spreadsheet concept itself. Content in which I have never used to this day, might I add.

But make no mistake...

Your work didn't make my work possible. You simply showed me a quicker way to apply MY WORK to my rosters and gave me some other pointers along the way.

Since you want to "check my math" and me (so you think) for all to see - it's pretty simple. Simple math and scaling. For example, in 2K's default roster the lowest 3 point rating is 25 and the highest is 99 of course. When I simmed seasons using the 2K14 default roster, the highest 3P% I consistently saw was 47% if I'm not mistaken. So, naturally, I figured that must mean 47% = 99 rating (or something close to it) and 0% = 25 rating. The difference (scale) between 25 and 99 is 74. Now divide 74 (highest possible number on scale) by 47 (highest 3 point percentage I consistently saw) and you'll get 1.5 (rounded). Since [basketballreference.com] lists 3pt% stats as ”.000” vs "00.0", I then multiplied 1.5 by 100 which equals out to 150. Still Keep in mind that the lowest you can go in 3pt rating is 25...

That lead me to the 3pt Rating formula of:
(150 * 3pt%) + 25 = 3pt rating
For example:
(150 * .470) + 25 = 97
(150 * .400) + 25 = 85
(150 * .300) + 25 = 70

This isn't always exact as with most players I then still have to go in game, run sims and tweak the rating in game until I get the consistent, desired results. For some players, I also subjectively factor in games played, 3PA and career 3pt% until I get a more deserving rating and/or desirable result.

In did a similar process with most other ratings/tendencies as well.

I've ran literally thousands of sims with my rosters... Quitting to menu...Tweaking a rating of a player by a point or two just because he is producing more/less in real life. Doing this over and over again. "Kevin Durant is getting too many rebounds versus real life, let me go back and subtract from the rebound rating I came up with for him."... This is my thought process. This is how my work and my mind works. I used to do all that in game at first. I calculated ratings with my phones calculator, player by player, before I knew about spreadsheets having the functionality to do that. Do you have any idea how long that took me? Try multiplying what you do by countless hours. I have been doing this since way before PC, way before joining NLSC in 2013 and even much further before knowing who you were.

Before I even became familiar with you, your work, or anyone elses like it for that matter, I had 22 out of 30 teams completed already for my 2016 rosters. Refer to my announcement on page 216 of this thread that clearly shows me posting screen shots with accurate stats well before we were introduced. Yes, coming across others yours and others ideas helped hone and lead to my own ideas. But who here hasn't doesn't done the same? I thought that's what the point of a community is. My mistake.

You paint this picture of me weaseling my way into your good graces to steal your work and claim it as my own behind your back. I'm a grown man bro. You really believe me taking time out of my day was all in deceit just to steal your techniques? How does that sound bro? I didn't even end up releasing my 2017 roster last year which should show you the level of importance to me. And, how much more transparent could I have been with my intentions? I literally messaged you through out, sent you a copy of my spreadsheet and credited you for your ideas.

Let's look big picture though... This is a going on 5 year old basketball video game we're talking about here. Yes, it's a game I love to play and tinker with when I can. But seriously, it's not that deep. I obviously appreciate the artistic value of this game and your work but let's just keep things in perspective here. All this does is make the idea of modding a 5 year old, last gen basketball game seem even more wacker and less fun than what it already is. To add, it hurts me personally to even have to talk to someone who has contributed so much this community in this manner, someone who I personally felt was a solid dude, all just to defend my self against BS accusations that could've easily been disproved by yourself in less than 5 minutes.

You sent your message to my personal Facebook even. Like, why not give me a chance to even respond to that? You obviously know how to reach me after I trusted you with my personal information. You have not a single piece of proof that I stole your work. You know how I know that? Because it didn't happen. You're going off of a hunch... (Or... A grudge against me or someone else I wonder?...)

Whatever this is, it is misguided. I did what I did to help you out of the kindness of my heart and solely in the interest of the community and a game I happen to love playing when time permits. I supported your work with no questions asked even after you gave no support whatsoever to my project and borderline tried to outright discourage my work. I never once complained. I took it in stride. Still helped you. I'm glad the messages you posted show this. Yet, I'm the one who owes you something? Keep in mind, I'm not getting paid for this. I'm not getting cool points for this. I have a life and a family. You more than anyone else should be able to relate to what I do. The research. The hours. All for others.

Like others have stated, let's just get back to what we do. All this extra stuff is nonsensical. Like I said in my last post, if there happens to be anything similar in our mods, something I deem may have maybe been an idea of yours, I'll remove it asap. So next time before you message me directly, to an account with not only my name but also my photo, using words like "deceit", recognize I'm a grown man that you are talking to. Your status on NLSC, your work, your respect go out the window at that point. At least try having some receipts to be back your claims... because I certainly do. Beyond that, I'm sure anybody on here who has both mods could've easily told you that the ratings, tendencies and statistical outputs in both mods are completely different for the 2016 and 2017 rosters (which are literally the only content I've uploaded to date other than a Bobby Hurley CF years ago).

That is all that needs to be said. I will be positing screenshots to clear my name and that is it. I apologize to NLSC, Andrew, Hawk23 and anyone who has had to watch this all play out. I tried my best to stay neutral in what played out on here upon Hawk23's/UBR's return. I literally hadn't been on here in a year, saw Hawk23/UBR was back, walked into what was unfolding and made it a point to stay away from all of that. But I will not have the hard work of my self and others negated.

I will not entertain this any further on this thread and continue take away from UBR. If you feel the need to continue this conversation, even after I've destroyed any argument you had, feel free to do so on your thread.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Dee4Three on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:16 am

slimm44 wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:
slimm44 wrote:If what you are saying is true, he would not have promised to not use my work without permission in any other project. He obviously knew what he was doing and knew that if he didn't get my permission to use what I shared with him it would be considered stealing. There is no other logical reason for why he would start the conversation off in that manner.


He is not using the exact work, and I don't think he would have posted the work in here so openly knowing you are still on the forums, if he thought it was stealing.

He's using your influence in his own work.


All he had to do was PM me on FB, on NLSC, or post in our thread.


My point is, he didn't have to. He didn't use your exact work, he used your influence and applied his own work to the new ideas/schemes. It's his work still, he didn't use your tendencies/ratings from what I am gathering.

You can want him to do that, but you can't strong-arm him for using your influence in his work. The Ultimate Classic Teams Roster on 2K17 I created was inspired by the UBR that I grew attached to in 2013. I probably wouldn't have created that roster had that roster not influenced me at the time. Does that mean I have to ask Hawk for permission? Hell no, its my work/along with the amazing talents like PeacemanNot that helped me.

He can use his ratings/tendencies on a spreadsheet (inspired by you) if he wants, I'm not sure how that can be argued.

I'm going to bow out now, you guys can discuss this if you want via PM. But, if I were Nyflava, I would feel comfortable continuing with the use of his ratings/tendencies for this roster. I don't think he necessarily did anything wrong here.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:24 am

nyflava2k9 wrote:So let me get this straight... it's a problem that I got an idea from you to make a spreadsheet? Even though it uses my own ratings formulas and is completely different than yours? Because that is all that you contributed to my work. Help me and others to understand what exactly I "deceived" you on and stole from you? What exactly did I use of yours that needed permission?

Like, Wow... Lol

I thought you/we were better than that.

Let's be clear: As the [private] messages you posted show, what I asked you for was to use peripheral ratings and tendencies such as spin layup, hook shots etc. for my 2016 & 17 rosters. It's right there in writing. Basically, topical ratings I could've easily came up with on my own or even just left alone as they have no bearing on statistical outputs (which is the whole focus of my rosters). Those fields, which admittedly help polish a roster, are honestly not really of importance to me personally when it comes to my work. Me asking you to use those kind of ratings and tendencies was simply to add a level of polish to my work that had already been mostly completed at that point.

You, I and anyone else with even mid-level knowledge of roster editing know the only ratings that matter for overalls/statistical outputs (what I focus on) are shot ratings, free throws, layups/inside, reb ratings, assists, steals, blocks, OFF/DEF Awareness and to an extent, durability as well. Tendencies such as inside, close, med, 3pt, touches and fouls also affect statistical outputs (although they do not affect overalls). I've known this for years as it was mostly the same on console. You didn't teach me that. Every rating and tendency that I just named, the only ones of importance when it comes to statistical outputs, the whole point of my rosters, I came up with up with those my own.

Anyone, just by simply looking at the spreadsheets you sent me in comparison to the ones I made will easily see they are not the same. Not only do they not look the same, there are clearly more statistical categories incorporated in mine and the formulas are different. Also, your spreadsheets were for 1960s and 70s rosters. Mines was for the 2017 roster. The only similarity is that they are both spreadsheets that covert stats into ratings. That is it. If you invented that method and are the only person doing things that way, kudos to you. I assumed that must be something all mass roster editors do to save time. My mistake if I assumed wrong. I never even thought that much into it honestly as it was so insignificant to me in the grand scheme of what I was doing. I figured that the content in your spreadsheets was what was of importance, not the spreadsheet concept itself. Content in which I have never used to this day, might I add.

But make no mistake...

Your work didn't make my work possible. You simply showed me a quicker way to apply MY WORK to my rosters and gave me some other pointers along the way.

Since you want to "check my math" and me (so you think) for all to see - it's pretty simple. Simple math and scaling. For example, in 2K's default roster the lowest 3 point rating is 25 and the highest is 99 of course. When I simmed seasons using the 2K14 default roster, the highest 3P% I consistently saw was 47% if I'm not mistaken. So, naturally, I figured that must mean 47% = 99 rating (or something close to it) and 0% = 25 rating. The difference (scale) between 25 and 99 is 74. Now divide 74 (highest possible number on scale) by 47 (highest 3 point percentage I consistently saw) and you'll get 1.5 (rounded). Since [basketballreference.com] lists 3pt% stats as ”.000” vs "00.0", I then multiplied 1.5 by 100 which equals out to 150. Still Keep in mind that the lowest you can go in 3pt rating is 25...

That lead me to the 3pt Rating formula of:
(150 * 3pt%) + 25 = 3pt rating
For example:
(150 * .470) + 25 = 97
(150 * .400) + 25 = 85
(150 * .300) + 25 = 70

This isn't always exact as with most players I then still have to go in game, run sims and tweak the rating in game until I get the consistent, desired results. For some players, I also subjectively factor in games played, 3PA and career 3pt% until I get a more deserving rating and/or desirable result.

In did a similar process with most other ratings/tendencies as well.

I've ran literally thousands of sims with my rosters... Quitting to menu...Tweaking a rating of a player by a point or two just because he is producing more/less in real life. Doing this over and over again. "Kevin Durant is getting too many rebounds versus real life, let me go back and subtract from the rebound rating I came up with for him."... This is my thought process. This is how my work and my mind works. I used to do all that in game at first. I calculated ratings with my phones calculator, player by player, before I knew about spreadsheets having the functionality to do that. Do you have any idea how long that took me? Try multiplying what you do by countless hours. I have been doing this since way before PC, way before joining NLSC in 2013 and even much further before knowing who you were.

Before I even became familiar with you, your work, or anyone elses like it for that matter, I had 22 out of 30 teams completed already for my 2016 rosters. Refer to my announcement on page 216 of this thread that clearly shows me posting screen shots with accurate stats well before we were introduced. Yes, coming across others yours and others ideas helped hone and lead to my own ideas. But who here hasn't doesn't done the same? I thought that's what the point of a community is. My mistake.

You paint this picture of me weaseling my way into your good graces to steal your work and claim it as my own behind your back. I'm a grown man bro. You really believe me taking time out of my day was all in deceit just to steal your techniques? How does that sound bro? I didn't even end up releasing my 2017 roster last year which should show you the level of importance to me. And, how much more transparent could I have been with my intentions? I literally messaged you through out, sent you a copy of my spreadsheet and credited you for your ideas.

Let's look big picture though... This is a going on 5 year old basketball video game we're talking about here. Yes, it's a game I love to play and tinker with when I can. But seriously, it's not that deep. I obviously appreciate the artistic value of this game and your work but let's just keep things in perspective here. All this does is make the idea of modding a 5 year old, last gen basketball game seem even more wacker and less fun than what it already is. To add, it hurts me personally to even have to talk to someone who has contributed so much this community in this manner, someone who I personally felt was a solid dude, all just to defend my self against BS accusations that could've easily been disproved by yourself in less than 5 minutes.

You sent your message to my personal Facebook even. Like, why not give me a chance to even respond to that? You obviously know how to reach me after I trusted you with my personal information. You have not a single piece of proof that I stole your work. You know how I know that? Because it didn't happen. You're going off of a hunch... (Or... A grudge against me or someone else I wonder?...)

Whatever this is, it is misguided. I did what I did to help you out of the kindness of my heart and solely in the interest of the community and a game I happen to love playing when time permits. I supported your work with no questions asked even after you gave no support whatsoever to my project and borderline tried to outright discourage my work. I never once complained. I took it in stride. Still helped you. I'm glad the messages you posted show this. Yet, I'm the one who owes you something? Keep in mind, I'm not getting paid for this. I'm not getting cool points for this. I have a life and a family. You more than anyone else should be able to relate to what I do. The research. The hours. All for others.

Like others have stated, let's just get back to what we do. All this extra stuff is nonsensical. Like I said in my last post, if there happens to be anything similar in our mods, something I deem may have maybe been an idea of yours, I'll remove it asap. So next time before you message me directly, to an account with not only my name but also my photo, using words like "deceit", recognize I'm a grown man that you are talking to. Your status on NLSC, your work, your respect go out the window at that point. At least try having some receipts to be back your claims... because I certainly do. Beyond that, I'm sure anybody on here who has both mods could've easily told you that the ratings, tendencies and statistical outputs in both mods are completely different for the 2016 and 2017 rosters (which are literally the only content I've uploaded to date other than a Bobby Hurley CF years ago).

That is all that needs to be said. I will be positing screenshots to clear my name and that is it. I apologize to NLSC, Andrew, Hawk23 and anyone who has had to watch this all play out. I tried my best to stay neutral in what played out on here upon Hawk23's/UBR's return. I literally hadn't been on here in a year, saw Hawk23/UBR was back, walked into what was unfolding and made it a point to stay away from all of that. But I will not have the hard work of my self and others negated.

I will not entertain this any further on this thread and continue take away from UBR. If you feel the need to continue this conversation, even after I've destroyed any argument you had, feel free to do so on your thread.


You contacted me on April 10th and acknowledged you didn't know what you were doing. You sent me a spreadsheet with "your" information on April 28th.

But..."I've ran literally thousands of sims with my rosters... Quitting to menu...Tweaking a rating of a player by a point or two just because he is producing more/less in real life. Doing this over and over again. "Kevin Durant is getting too many rebounds versus real life, let me go back and subtract from the rebound rating I came up with for him."... This is my thought process. This is how my work and my mind works. I used to do all that in game at first. I calculated ratings with my phones calculator, player by player, before I knew about spreadsheets having the functionality to do that. Do you have any idea how long that took me? Try multiplying what you do by countless hours. I have been doing this since way before PC, way before joining NLSC in 2013 and even much further before knowing who you were. "

When you first messaged me you didn't know how to find tendencies, rebound ratings, determine 3pt ratings, steals, blocks, or any other data that wasn't always tracked.

"I trust your methods so I will initially get all players in line for each position tendency wise and work from there tonight. I think you're spot on about the 3 pointers for those positions as well. Like you said, surely they weren't dead eye from that range but I'm sure they were moderately capable. With 3 point tendency turned down, the CPU shouldnt attempt them regardless and -20 will give so minor capability to entice people to attempt 3s against three CPU, but overall still more realistic to have something in place IMO. You are correct on ORB and DRB not being tracked before then as well. I can follow along as close to DEF/OFF rebound ratio to the example you gave as well. I can also follow those. guidelines for the steals as well. And yes, I meant basketball reference lol"

But it took you 18 days to come up with your formulas?

OK, dude.

Whatever you say.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:31 am

Do you see the file named "ZFinally"? That was my final version of my 2017 Roster. It wasn't released until 5 days ago. A year late. Just the name of the files and others around it will give you a hint of how long this took me...
Image
This following are screenshots of simmed seasons using the 2K14 Default Roster. Notice how the league leaders in 3 pointers are around 47 percent. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower. 47 percent was the mean after countless sims though...
Image
Image
The following is a copy of my final ratings for Sixers in the 2017 Roster that was released last week...
Image
The following is a copy of ratings for the Sixers from your mod, the URB. Way different... Even heights and weights...
Image
The following is ratings including even some peripheral ratings for Bucks players in my 2017 roster...
Image
Image
The following is ratings including even some peripheral ratings for Bucks players from your 2017 roster. Notice I didn't even use the peripherals I asked you to use. I respected your wishes...
Image
Image
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:31 am

Duplicate
Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:31 am

Duplicate
Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:36 am

We really don't need to go any further than this, though. You offered data entry. You didn't even know where to find the stats, as in one post you talked about getting them from Bleacher Report and I asked if you meant Basketball-Reference, at which you replied yes. The mid-level skills were not in developing formulas or figuring out 2k's scales, it was in data entry. You were asking for help on how to enter data faster than cell-by-cell.

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Read that last sentence again for emphasis.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:38 am

slimm44 wrote:But it took you 18 days to come up with your formulas?

OK, dude.

Whatever you say.


Bro, I first started posting my statistical outputs which were way more accurate than yours and still are back in January 2016. Refer to page 216 on this thread. Me and you, by your own admission didn't even start working together until April 2017. Who ever said it took me 18 days? What I learned from you in those not even 3 weeks was a drop in the bucket compared to what I already had. You can see back in 2016 I was already posting shot charts for players on this thread. Before I even knew who you were. It's right there for anyone to see and you're just making yourself look even more ridiculous asserting that you made my work possible. Facts are facts bro. You're wrong on this one.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:42 am

It's up to Andrew and/or Hawk. Hawk oversees this project, Andrew oversees NLSC.

Only Andrew or Hawk gets to decide if stolen work is released or the integrity of the modding community is kept intact.

There's no more reason to discuss it.

I'll wait to hear from one of them.
Last edited by slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:45 am

slimm44 wrote:We really don't need to go any further than this, though. You offered data entry. You didn't even know where to find the stats, as in one post you talked about getting them from Bleacher Report and I asked if you meant Basketball-Reference, at which you replied yes. The mid-level skills were not in developing formulas or figuring out 2k's scales, it was in data entry. You were asking for help on how to enter data faster than cell-by-cell.

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Read that last sentence again for emphasis.


You're really trying to use me misspeaking and saying Bleacher Report instead of Basketball Reference against me? :applaud: Like, who do you think you are? You aren't as unique as you think you are bro. I found that out myself, caught flack from others and was informed I wasnt the only one going in depth on ratings and was able to humble myself to others who do similar work to me. Way back on Page 216. Way back in January of 2016, before I even knew who you were, I was posting shot charts for players from Vorp... You seriously think I didn't know what basketball reference was? Your argument is sinking. Your rosters didn't even have any emphasis on 2K overalls or statistical outputs before I started sharing my work. Now, they do. Should I ask you to credit me for that? No, it ridiculous.

As for those spread sheets...
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:53 am

"As for those spread sheets"...

If you are referring to the ones you "helped" on, I didn't use those.

I hadn't started implementing them before you stopped communicating and I started over from scratch. You had entered a small amount of data in the the first two teams of one spreadsheet, you pasted statistical data (in an almost unreadable job) in another, and used what I shared with you in regards to spreadsheets to paste the 1961 per36 minute stats.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:04 am

I took you up on it and started looking through your old posts. This is good reading!

In January of 2016 you did reference "thousands" of season sims and had 8 teams "done". Sounds tedious.

Then, you posted this in early February of 2016 in the URB thread.

"Slimm44 and Sko... You guys are the F'ing truth. Amazing work on you guys end! :applaud: The amount of detail you guys already had in your roster in conjunction with these new updates are mind blowing. Again, I can't stress enough that when I previously brought up statistical output that it wasn't in the spirit of knocking your work by any stretch, rather it was just to start a conversation on this topic to see if we can take the realism a step even further... You guys delivered big time! Please understand that I truthfully just wasn't aware of all the research and data that was compiled to make your rosters when I made my initial announcement/call for realistic statistical outputs. I stand corrected and have since started reading over previous threads on nlsc/os in regards to ratings/tendencies. I'm learning alot and am blown away by the sheer depth of everything so I owe you a big thanks as far as sharing your research with the community to help others like my self. I haven't been able to get much done these past few days (my grandfather had a heart attack but is recovering thank god) but I'm plan to get you the ratings/tendencies you requested for the aforementioned players within the next few days, Slimm44. I am really looking forward to you letting me know what areas I can improve on and the do's and don'ts. I highly doubt it but who knows, maybe some of my research can be helpful to you as well. Again, this is F'ing awesome what you guys have done. Much respect!"

But you had it all figured out before reaching out to me for tips, right?
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:06 am

This is your spreadsheet in its entirety... All one page of it (not even zoomed out much)... Notice the fields it incorporates... Notice your 3pt formula in comparison to mine... It's no where near mines... I hate to even have to show your work but you have left me no other choice... I don't take false accusations lightly... Since it is up to NLSC as you say, here is further proof that you are tripping....
Image

Now this is my spreadsheet in its entirety... All six pages of it (had to zoom out even more just to fit it to 6 screen shots.)... Notice all the extra fields it incorporates... Notice how our 3pt formulas are completely different...
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

You did not help me at all with the creation of my spreadsheet. Yes, I got the idea from you to make a spreadsheet but this should put to rest any notion I stole yours.

Again... Hawk23, Andrew and everyone else... I am sorry to bombard this thread with this but this was brought to me. I am simply defending myself and my reputation.

Slimm44, I didn't steal your work and you know this. If you didn't before than you should definitely now.

Case closed.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:15 am

I found this quote, too. Thanks for directing me to what you have said in the past, man! This was from early 2016, also.

"I'm going to start my response to you with a :bowdown2: .... it is much deserved! I have just begun to scratch the surface on your research and I am truly blown away by the amount of detail you put into your work. Truly game changing stuff! I owe you a huge apology. Not that I was knocking your work by any stretch but I was truly not aware at how in depth you went with everything. I took an educated guess that a lot of research had to go into your work - but I am just now truly appreciating how much of an understatement that is. I now also understand that your ratings/tendencies were calculated at a certain point in the season.. Any perceived (Ok so I was totally wrong on everything lol) discrepancies as far as statistical output goes makes perfect sense. Players stats go up and down throughout the season so I now understand why some stats vary. With that being said I would love to pick your brain on how you came up with your ratings/tendencies. I now realize I'm the one who was "off" and I also realize how much more in depth this all goes. I am truly appreciative of you and your work. I admittedly a little nervous now about sending you the ratings/tendencies for the players you mentioned above lol (your work is the real life manifestation of what I thought to be a pipe dream for UBR) but I will get them to you ASAP. On second thought, please go Kobe/black mamba style on tearing my sh** to shreads lol. Your input is invaluable and will do nothing but make me/this mod better. At the very least will give me a better understanding of what I need to change, look out for, do's/don't, problems you came across etc. I tried to download your spreadsheets so I can get a better understanding of how you calculated your ratings formulas but I was unable to. If you can point me to any links/post that deal with these types of topics It would be much appreciated. I can NEVER touch your work (I hope everyone see's me saying this) but I would definitely be interested in taking a protege/helper role if you are up to schooling me on how all this works. Also, please read my response I posted to Sko above. A lot of that pertains to you as well. Much respect. I am just beginning this journey and who better to learn from than the Guru of Sim himself - You! :)"

First private message in April.

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Then, a short while later you had access to all of my methods. A year after that and you are doing the one thing you said you wouldn't do in the first private message you sent me...apply what you learned from me to another project.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:33 am

slimm44 wrote:
But you had it all figured out before reaching out to me for tips, right?


I never reached out to you. You came on the thread saying "you would like to know how I came up with my formulas". You made first contact with me. I started my 2016 rosters in January 2016. Posed screenshots of my work. Accurate stats from the 2016 season at that point. Way more accurate than yours. I was already well on my way. I never claimed to have everything figured out. Once I realized others such as yourself also do in-depth ratings, I compared my work to that, took bits and pieces and honed my skills even further. I never shied away from this fact, always gave credit and thanked you for it. Do not make it seem as though "you made me". My ideas were original thought that happened to be thoughts of others as well. When I saw there was someone else out there like me, I was excited thinking all me and you could accomplish together. Yes, I was excited to work with you. Especially after seeing all the in-depth things you were doing to rosters. You thought along the same lines as me. Again, I have never not credited you for that. But do not act as if you made my work possible. That's total BS.

The following is my first post ever on the topic of statistical outputs, well before I even knew about your work (Page 216 of this thread )... (To add, I honestly used to just download UBR and URB and edit them to my preference for personal use. I barely even used URB before Hawk23's 3 year hiatus as I didn't understand the ratings or much else about it in general... Thats cold truth for you)

"by nyflava2k9 on 23 Jan 2016, 20:09
How did I come up with the tendencies? I'm using up to date shot charts (courtesy of vorped.com) and data collected from other sites (basketball-reference.com, realgm.com etc.). For example, Jimmy Butler has attempted the following shots this year: 200 shots at the rim, 32 from close range, 239 from mid range, and 128 from 3 point range. His tendencies I currently have as: 73 inside shots, 22 close range shots, 80 mid range shots, 55 on 3 point shots. Notice that 80 is the highest rated shot tendency because in real life he attempts more mid range shots than anything. He is rated a 73 shot tendency on inside shots because that is the second most attempted shot he takes and it is not many attempts less than he does from mid range. He has a 55 tendency rating from 3 because he attempts a good amount of less 3's than he does mid range and inside shots. He's rated a 22 shot tendency from close range (5-10 feet) because he's only attempted 32 shots from that range this year - significantly less and only about a quarter of the number of shots he's taken from mid range. I've also taken into consideration if a player drives left or right more, free throw attempts etc... Again, it goes ALOT more in depth."

The following is our first ever interaction, also on page 216. This came after my initial post and screenshots.
Sorry if my recollection is a little off as far as time in between my first post and YOU FIRST REACHING OUT TO ME... This was over 2 years ago and it's basketball video game for starters:
"Post by slimm44 on 24 Jan 2016, 09:16

nyflava2k9, the reason that some of the ratings and tendencies in URB are "off" is because I calculated them after the first 20 games of the season. Check some of the players you feel are "off" and you'll find that they are "on" when looking at that sample size.

That being said, I'd be interested to see some of the statistical ratings/tendencies for players. If you don't mind, PM me the following information for the following players:

Ratings:
Standing layup
Close Shot
Mid Shot
3pt Shot
Passing
Stealing
Blocking
Offensive Rebounding
Defensive Rebounding

Tendencies:
Take Shot
Inside Shot
Close Shot
Mid Shot
3pt Shot
Touches

Jimmy Butler
Steph Curry
Demarcus Cousins
Kevin Love
Porzingis
D'Angelo Russell
Andrew Wiggins
Lemarcus Aldridge
James Harden"

Anyone who goes to page 216 can see I started my work in January 2016. They can see our initial conversations in the forum came after my first post on the topic of statistical outputs. Although I ended up completing the 2016 roster around June 2016, I didn't even release it that year. I disappeared from NLSC from 2016 into about March of 2017. I released the 2016 roster along with my 2017 roster V1 on April 22nd, 2017. My 2017 Roster V1 didnt even have my ratings edits applied to it. Others can attest to this. The 2017 V2 with updated ratings and outputs literally has been sitting on my computer until 2 weeks ago when I returned to NLSC, spoke to Hawk23 and he released it as 2017 V2... Ask anyone on here who is familiar with UBR...

Again, I didn't even start working with you or private messaging with you until April 2017. A whole year l after from my very first announcement in January 2016 and speaking with you briefly in the forum. Again, I disappeared from NLSC without releasing my 2016 roster and and came back around March/April 2017, which is when you and I first started working together. My 2016 roster was completed at that point and I was already working on my 2017 roster...

The proof is there. The ratings are different. The spreadsheets are different. Why are you continuing with this?

Do you want me to say "Slimm44 is the best at what he does. His ideas helped me get my work on track and improve it."

There, I said it... I've said it before. Countless times...

Also claiming I only helped you with 1 or 2 seasons is laughable. I no longer have access to those spreadsheets but I definitely knocked out the whole 60s and some of the 70's. I collected every stat that could be recorded in those days. I mean what other stats are you using that we all don't know about? I applied those perfectly to your spreadsheets. It's childish of you to try to downplay my contributions. At this point you just sound bitter bro.
Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:34 am

Duplicate
Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:34 am

Duplicate
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:46 am

slimm44 wrote:I found this quote, too. Thanks for directing me to what you have said in the past, man! This was from early 2016, also.

"I'm going to start my response to you with a :bowdown2: .... it is much deserved! I have just begun to scratch the surface on your research and I am truly blown away by the amount of detail you put into your work. Truly game changing stuff! I owe you a huge apology. Not that I was knocking your work by any stretch but I was truly not aware at how in depth you went with everything. I took an educated guess that a lot of research had to go into your work - but I am just now truly appreciating how much of an understatement that is. I now also understand that your ratings/tendencies were calculated at a certain point in the season.. Any perceived (Ok so I was totally wrong on everything lol) discrepancies as far as statistical output goes makes perfect sense. Players stats go up and down throughout the season so I now understand why some stats vary. With that being said I would love to pick your brain on how you came up with your ratings/tendencies. I now realize I'm the one who was "off" and I also realize how much more in depth this all goes. I am truly appreciative of you and your work. I admittedly a little nervous now about sending you the ratings/tendencies for the players you mentioned above lol (your work is the real life manifestation of what I thought to be a pipe dream for UBR) but I will get them to you ASAP. On second thought, please go Kobe/black mamba style on tearing my sh** to shreads lol. Your input is invaluable and will do nothing but make me/this mod better. At the very least will give me a better understanding of what I need to change, look out for, do's/don't, problems you came across etc. I tried to download your spreadsheets so I can get a better understanding of how you calculated your ratings formulas but I was unable to. If you can point me to any links/post that deal with these types of topics It would be much appreciated. I can NEVER touch your work (I hope everyone see's me saying this) but I would definitely be interested in taking a protege/helper role if you are up to schooling me on how all this works. Also, please read my response I posted to Sko above. A lot of that pertains to you as well. Much respect. I am just beginning this journey and who better to learn from than the Guru of Sim himself - You! :)"

First private message in April.

"Hey man, let me start by saying I'm very happy to get to work with you. As I stated before, you have my full focus. As far as my capabilities, I don't have paid RedMC so I can only edit player tabs. I'd say my skills are mid level as I know how to update the player tabs but I'm sure there are some techniques you can help with to make that process go alot quicker. As far as what I can help with, knowing what my capabilities are, what can I lend a hand with specifically? Is it more converting actual stats into ratings using your methods or has that conversion already been done and the data just needs to be plugged in? Also, I tried downloading the spread sheet you posted explaining your ratings and tendency formulas but it said the file may have been deleted. Is there a way you can get that to me? Also if you can point me in the direction of tutorials you may deem helpful to do mass editing and help speed up the process on editing it would be much appreciated. I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."

Then, a short while later you had access to all of my methods. A year after that and you are doing the one thing you said you wouldn't do in the first private message you sent me...apply what you learned from me to another project.


Bro, I was new to roster editing publicly. You were an established name I figured out once I saw all the support you had. I humbled myself in your presence. Me saying things like "I was the one who was off" was truthfully because I wanted to mend any hard feelings you might've held for tearing into your work (unbeknownst to even who you were at the time).It was great to see someone else out there, an established person, doing ratings as I was. Prior to that, I posted screen shots tearing into the fact that you had Elton Brand rated as the highest player on the Sixers in your 2016 roster with an overall rating of 72. The ratings were so off to the naked eye that it made me initially think no one cared about the ratings, it was a glitch or someone messed them up. I didn't know there was a method behind them. I didn't know who you were. I didn't know all the work you put into those ratings. Excuse me if I wanted to get back on a good foot with you after feeling like I was wrong for tearing into your work.


And what exact methods are you talking about I stole? The spreadsheet itself? The formulas? I used neither. I don't even get where you're coming from with any of this as the screenshots I posted above clearly show our ratings,formulas and spreadsheets are different. You're mad because I made my own spreadsheet? That's the only thing I really applied to my work - the concept to make a spreadsheet. It saved me time. Thats it. It didnt make my work possible.

Again,what else could I have done different? You sound utterly ridiculous right now.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby nyflava2k9 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:09 am

slimm44 wrote:Me: I am at your direction, so don't be afraid to delegate anything you can use help with. Any questions, rough draft or completed rosters will go through you for approval. None of this gets released without your permission and will be strictly used for URB."


We were working on 60s and 70s rosters. I was working on 2016 and 2017. I stuck to my word. I shared nothing of what you shared with me. It would be impossible to use what you shared with me to edit my rosters. Yes, your work helped breed ideas for me. But again, I have never shied away from that. You came into the picture as my work was already being completed. Your work gave me ideas and pointers. The only people who really helped me with my rosters (Not to bring anyone else into this) was Evob, Vanegame? and Truefaith (and Hawk23 for providing the base).

You really think by you showing up at the tail end of a nearly completed job, making minor intellectual contributions that I picked up from you, you think that constitutes you taking credit for my entire body of work? You think that constitutes me being a thief and deceiving you? You think that constitutes you crapping on and halting my work? After I've been nothing but respectful to you? After I helped you out when you offered me none in return?... Nah son. You wrong on this one.

If anyone wonders why I disappeared when I did without at least giving a word... wonder no longer. The lack of support and mutual respect is astounding. I'd rather just keep my work to myself.

I'm done with this..
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Buggys on Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:48 am

I think this beef has gone longer and farther than it should have. I have the utmost respect for slimm, but bro, nyflava2k9 just said every thing that I though of saying when I saw this issue a couple of days ago. More specifically about the fact that he never really used your exact work and that he developed his own formulas. It's a lot like when people make CFs, it was only considered stealing when modders use the texture or exact headshapes of other mods. But using those cf's as base while completely making a new work isn't. In fact, most of the works in this community wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for the tools readily available by other modders. Yet they never asked for credit for every mod that has ever been made. They also put in hours on reverse engineering the game to make it possible. What I'm saying is, if both your rosters produce different results and feel, then how is it considered the same? I'm not taking sides, I'm a nobody after all. But I think that as someone who's seeing things as they are, given that I have no emotional attachment to either work, I can clearly see that this has been blown out of proportion. The bottom line is, nyflava's work is different from yours in the end. Both your works will end up producing a different product. Different feel for the gameplay. Now suppose he did learn things from you, he still didn't copy your exact work and ended up with a different product. I don't know if I'm able to put my thoughts into words properly, but I hope you see what I'm trying to say. We know you are great, and I don't see any problem in him releasing his work if it's not exactly like yours, especially if you feel that you have a superior formula or work. I know this sounds crazy given that you are literally one of the greatest modders ever, but it just seems that you aren't confident with your work and you feel like nyflava might end up releasing a better product than you after learning from you. And regarding his message that everything would strictly be used for URB or will have your permission, I really thought he was referring to the rosters he was helping you with, ie the retro rosters. As in that the retro rosters need your approval or final say before it would get released for URB. Just like how the quality control teams would taste test the food before approving it to get mass produced. Med's already left, a lot of modders did for the lack of support or respect. I just really hope everyone that's left can just help keep this community alive and kicking. And just help each other to better the game as a whole.
User avatar
Buggys
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:41 am

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby Andrew on Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:05 pm

I'ts unfortunate that it's come to this point, and that we've also crossed the boundaries of the "No drama/public fuss" and "No posting contents of private messages" rules. That's where we're at, but please, no more of that. Let's resolve this without further incident.

The established precedent with rosters is that no one owns ratings, though outright taking someone else's roster and using it as a base without permission and credit is obviously against the rules and etiquette of the community. Generally speaking, if a ratings formula is being used by another person on a new project, then it's not that different to using any other kind of modding tutorial, technique, or freely available template to create something new. It's nice to give a shout out here, of course, but techniques and tutorials don't require credit or permission to use in the creation of a new project. Templates are sometimes a little different, but usually giving credit there is a courtesy, not a requirement. It usually depends on the person who provided the resources, and the conditions they set.

A possible exception is if ratings formulas aren't being shared publicly and openly for everyone's use. While we'd certainly encourage people to share that information, it's at their discretion as to whether they want to do so, and specific formulas can count as original work in their own right. As such, if someone absolutely doesn't want their formulas being used in other projects, then that's a request the community should honour. However, this doesn't extend to anyone else devising their own formulas based on similar techniques, or the concept of globally applied edits using spreadsheets in general. The basic approach of devising ratings formulas, using spreadsheets and whatnot aren't owned by anyone, and date back to the very early days of roster editing here at the NLSC, so there would be a lot of people to credit for that idea.

So, how does that precedent apply here?

From what I can see, nyflava2k9 isn't using any of slimm44's tangible work - that is, an actual roster file - as a base. Furthermore, it appears the plan is to use completely different formulas, though it might be fair to say that techniques learned during a previous collaboration are being used. While a shout out might be appropriate or appreciated given the circumstances, that doesn't actually count as stolen work, and no permission is required as long as the formulas are original and no roster by slimm44 is being used as a base. After all, slimm44 is within his rights to decline permission to use his formulas and any other tangible work, so it's important that that stance is respected and followed accordingly. It's a fair request given the circumstances, so slimm44's rosters and any exact formulas should be considered off-limits by anyone who hasn't received explicit permission to use them. Again, from what I can see, nyflava2k9 is actually doing the right thing by that request.

There's obviously been a falling out and ill-feeling which is unfortunate, but it is what it is. As far as where we all go from here, my stance is that slimm44 is within his rights to insist that nyflava2k9 doesn't use his formulas or any of his rosters as a base. However, it seems like nyflava2k9 is doing his own work and has come up with his own approach to the ratings, so there shouldn't be any problem. Given the past attempts at collaboration and any knowledge that may have been passed along, credit to slimm44 for certain techniques or inspiration may be an appropriate gesture of goodwill, but it's not strictly required. As long as nyflava2k9 isn't using any of slimm44's formulas, his rosters as a base, or anything like that, the rules and etiquette of the community are being followed, and there should be no issue moving forward. slimm44's request and stance is valid and reasonable, but it seems nyflava2k9 is actually honouring that request by doing his own thing, so that's what it comes down to at the end of the day.

My apologies for not stepping in and offering up some measure of a ruling earlier. I was honestly confused by the situation, so I was trying to figure out what the exact complaint was, and the nature of what was going on (also, I'm on the other side of the world). Having considered everything, I believe as long as nyflava2k9 is using his own formulas and rosters, slimm44's request is being honoured within reasonable expectations, according to the rules and etiquette of our community. It's a shame that there is some bad blood here, but hopefully we can all get past that and co-exist, both sides doing their own thing as they do so well.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
The One Admin
Administrator
 
Posts: 105461
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: ►Ultimate Base Roster (UBR) V40 RLSD◄ *Accurate 18-19 Roster as of JULY 5, 2018*

Postby slimm44 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:57 pm

Thanks for weighing in, Andrew.

I sincerely doubt that Sko and I would be allowed to do anything close to this.

Happy gaming.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

1984-85 through 2018-19 Rosters

Elite, Ultra, All-Time, Draft, All Star, Olympic and NCAA Rosters


What makes this mod “sim”? Here are a few of the features that set this project apart from all others:

- Every art file (jerseys, arenas, cyberfaces, accessories, courts, dornas (advertisement at half court), etc is realistic and none will crash game play
- There is no missing art file in the entire project

Every player in every roster has:
- Accurate statistical ratings and tendencies to work with 2k's simulation engine while still providing realistic game play
- Realistic ratings and tendencies that affect game play but not the simulation engine ie dribbling, athletic ratings, post tendencies, etc.
- Realistic physical attributes that decrease after major injuries or as the player gets older
- Accurate play types
- Accurate contracts

- Accurately updated Coaching profiles and playbooks

- Draft classes that have realistic player information for every player

- A few slider sets designed to be a base for realistic game play

Give URB a try and please leave feedback. We're confident that you will agree this is the most realistic and accurate 2k project there is!
User avatar
slimm44
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:24 am

U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 19th July

Postby nyflava2k9 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:30 am

Redacted
Last edited by nyflava2k9 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
nyflava2k9
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:49 am

Re: U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 17th July

Postby skoadam on Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:21 am

Hey copycat i see you :cool:
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015
2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011 2009/2010
2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005
2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001 1999/2000
1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995
1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991 1989/1990
1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985

ImageLike it? Motivate me for more
User avatar
skoadam
U R Basketball - Where Sim Happens
Contributor
 
Posts: 7541
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:52 am
Location: PL

Re: U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 17th July

Postby skoadam on Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:40 am

Because im waiting week or more and it looks like i was simply ignored, i want to ask. Is it possible to get some answers, Andrew ?
Last edited by skoadam on Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015
2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011 2009/2010
2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005
2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001 1999/2000
1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995
1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991 1989/1990
1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985

ImageLike it? Motivate me for more
User avatar
skoadam
U R Basketball - Where Sim Happens
Contributor
 
Posts: 7541
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:52 am
Location: PL

Re: U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 17th July

Postby Buggys on Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:52 pm

What do you need man? :D I'm still here. :bowdown2:
User avatar
Buggys
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:41 am

Re: U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 17th July

Postby skoadam on Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:36 am

Because im waiting week or more and it looks like i was simply ignored, i want to ask. Is it possible to get some answers, Andrew ?
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015
2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011 2009/2010
2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005
2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001 1999/2000
1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995
1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991 1989/1990
1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985

ImageLike it? Motivate me for more
User avatar
skoadam
U R Basketball - Where Sim Happens
Contributor
 
Posts: 7541
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:52 am
Location: PL

Re: U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 19th July

Postby skoadam on Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:23 am

I have few words about NLSC, UBR...
I will post few screens, showing true about copying/pasting things straight from URB mod into ubr without any word about this. NLSC allow nyflava to do this even after CLEAR EVIDENCES. Andrew i was really patient, i was waiting for your pms since weeks, after your last pm i decided to go public.
I have no idea about ubr modder knowledge about his "mastermind" boy is doin with his rosters, im more than sure he have no idea what is goin on with his rosters because so many users working, copying/pasting things, sending files to him to upload. Its not my problem, but would be nice to know.

Now to the evidences.

1st screen, its 2019 URB roster
Image
2nd screen, 2019 UBR roster
Image
3rd screen, 2018 UBR roster
Image
4th screen, last but most important 2014 UBR roster, it can be any roster 1960-2015 from UBR mod.
Image

So, i want to talk about coaching profiles and....playbooks IDs column. Im talking to URB users, you probably know (at least you should) that URB is using 0-14 playbooks IDs. Every single roster here is using 0-14 playbooks IDs.
Why? Because Slimm selected all good plays and created UNIQUE playbooks tab. You cant find similar solution in ANY other mod. Now, when you compare my 2019 with ubr 2019 and 2018 (and 2017 and 2016 i can assure you but you can check), do you see how not smart nyflava is? He forgot to change or he was too lazy to change it. ITS CLEAR COPY/PASTE job. Now, why i posted screen with 2014 roster. Well as you can see there, its default 2k set of Playbooks IDs (0-29), right? and guess what. All 1960-2015 ubr rosters using default playbooks ids. Who edited 2016-2019 ubr rosters? Answer is nyflava.

Its not over. Now lets look closer to coaching profiles. Well, nyflava will say, hey there is some differences. I will say, no bitch, you just copied/pasted and changed few values, its way too close, especially when you are switching between rosters. And AGAIN, look at 2014, YES! Fucking Eureka! Its default 2k coaching profiles.

Last thing...even coaches grades were copied straight from URB.

In last weeks i was pm Andrew about situation. NLSC administration see no problem with this. I see no problem with leaving NLSC.
Last thing. Last month was best way to recognize how blind all of you can be. Slimm posted CLEAR EVIDENCE of how nyflava simply stole years of his work. And what? You just ignored it and even more, you said he is wrong. You dont want to listen what two experienced and legit modders are telling you, you want to believe unknown user just because he will make ubr better. Well Slimm already deleted his account on NLSC. Now im posting next CLEAR EVIDENCES. Guess what can be my next step. I saw many rosters steals and everytime we catch modder on one lie, it ends with ban. Not here, not when we are talking about ubr. I will leave you with this, have your own brain, not lemming-like rush.
Last edited by skoadam on Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImage

URB WHERE SIM HAPPENS [35 Complete Seasons Mods] DOWNLOAD HERE

2018/2019 2017/2018 2016/2017 2015/2016 2014/2015
2013/2014 2012/2013 2011/2012 2010/2011 2009/2010
2008/2009 2007/2008 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005
2003/2004 2002/2003 2001/2002 2000/2001 1999/2000
1998/1999 1997/1998 1996/1997 1995/1996 1994/1995
1993/1994 1992/1993 1991/1992 1990/1991 1989/1990
1988/1989 1987/1988 1986/1987 1985/1986 1984/1985

ImageLike it? Motivate me for more
User avatar
skoadam
U R Basketball - Where Sim Happens
Contributor
 
Posts: 7541
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:52 am
Location: PL

Re: U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 19th July

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:09 am

I am going to say this, as I have more freedom as I am a contributor (not an admin) to basically say what is on my mind freely.

Skoadam, cut the shit. And I say that as a friend on here, I always got along with you. But seriously, grow up and cut the shit.

The entire premise of your project could be considered a copycat project, the entire thing. The UBR came first for 2K12, and this mod came the year after with a lot of similarities. I could give two fucks about what you chose for a name, I am talking about the project itself. I am not saying you copied, because you didn't copy exactly, and you had some of your own modders (like Slimm, Monzki) who contributed a lot of work. But, this bullshit of attacking nyflava for using some of Slimms ideas to improve the UBR, using his inspiration from Slimm to help that project, is nothing short of petty and childish. You can kick and scream all you want, you can say "I expected more out of you, Dee", you can say "HOW CAN YOU SIDE WITH THEM ON THIS!", etc. None of that matters, I've been following this from the beginning and my stance is rock solid. He drew inspiration from Slimm, he did not copy Slimm exactly, and similarities will exist between both rosters as they seek a ton of the same goals.

Nyflava actually kept the UBR alive, which Hawk based his updates on. I am disappointed in Hawk for not sticking up for Nyflava (I have no problems with stating this publicly), Hawk and I have always had a good relationship. I am disappointed that he has stayed silent outside of one outburst he made, I am disappointed that he is continually asking other people to make decisions in regards to things like faces/research etc that I believe he could do himself. This is the first he is seeing of my disappointment, and he may not give a shit (Which is his choice). But I don't like the way things have been handled since his return, either. Especially him not sticking up for Nyflava, and basically not handling conflicts himself. He should be at the forefront, as he is the leader of his project, and he should stand up for those who help him in his project.

I think you are handling this like a crybaby, I think Hawk is also not handling his side right, I think NyFlava could have noted that he took inspiration from Slimm from the start (but should be allowed to continue), etc. I also stand with Andrews handling of the situation, as I think it was a fair resolve. I think that NyFlava should be allowed to continue, I think both projects are fantastic and should be continued, and I think that both of you (Hawk and Sko) need to realize the impact these two porjects have had on thousands of people, and appreciate that. I'm not saying hold hands, or even help eachother, I am saying handle things properly, maturely, and move the fuck on.

Sko and Hawk, I love what both of you guys bring to the community. You are ELITE in what you do project wise, I've always thought that. Maintaining these projects for years is ridiculously hard work, and I appreciate it. Hawk made me fall in love with 2K14 for the PC, Sko you made me fall in love with 2K13 for PC, all because of these massive mods and the work contributed by those behind them.

Let it go, move on.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: .

Postby sticky-fingers on Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:46 am

Copy, paste then changing values : viewtopic.php?f=225&t=103524&start=450#p1896489

Rule changed ?
my NBA2K : flickr | YouTube
User avatar
sticky-fingers
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:33 am

Re: .

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:49 am

Can somebody explain to me how copy and paste can take place with what Slimm provided??

Can it literally be copy and pasted right into REDMC?
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: .

Postby WithAuthority on Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:56 am

#IStandWithURB
Collector & Trader of vintage NBA games, DVD, and memorabilia
User avatar
WithAuthority
ABL Commish
 
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:43 am

Re: .

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:18 am

WithAuthority wrote:#IStandWithURB


No need of that.

This isn't a popularity contest, or a "I stand with" situation. I support both Sko and Hawk at the moment. I understand where Slimm and Sko are coming from, but I see Nyflava side as well. Hawk has never come out and said anything about this situation, even though the work is being used in his project/releases.

I'm starting to get a little bit more of the picture, and honestly I can see where Slimm was hurt because Nyflava didn't mention his inspiration (when he was posting screenshots of realistic sim stats). I also understand the frustration of Sko and Slimm if Nyflava copy and pasted the values in the player/team tabs (like pasted entire players attributes) and just changed a few and called it his own.

However, I was under the impression that nyflava got the spreadsheet idea from Slimm, but created his own spreadsheet and applied his own ratings to that spreadsheet.

Nyflava, is that not accurate? Or was a copy/paste job done of the newer years, and you just slightly edited them after?

Let's not start the whole #istandwithURB, or UBR, or that type if back and forth. We should be supporting both these modders afternoon getting to the bottom of it.

I want Sko around, I like Sko and his team. I also love this project, and I think it's important to keep it around for 2K13 and 2K14.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 7202
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: .

Postby El Chapo on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:29 am

Both URB and UBR are both extremely popular mods and both have been download over 10,000 times. Deep down I think what really matters is that people are enjoying themselves and having fun playing the game.
El Chapo
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:44 am

U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 19th July

Postby WithAuthority on Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:43 am

Dee4Three wrote:
WithAuthority wrote:#IStandWithURB


No need of that.

This isn't a popularity contest, or a "I stand with" situation. I support both Sko and Hawk at the moment. I understand where Slimm and Sko are coming from, but I see Nyflava side as well. Hawk has never come out and said anything about this situation, even though the work is being used in his project/releases.

I'm starting to get a little bit more of the picture, and honestly I can see where Slimm was hurt because Nyflava didn't mention his inspiration (when he was posting screenshots of realistic sim stats). I also understand the frustration of Sko and Slimm if Nyflava copy and pasted the values in the player/team tabs (like pasted entire players attributes) and just changed a few and called it his own.

However, I was under the impression that nyflava got the spreadsheet idea from Slimm, but created his own spreadsheet and applied his own ratings to that spreadsheet.

Nyflava, is that not accurate? Or was a copy/paste job done of the newer years, and you just slightly edited them after?

Let's not start the whole #istandwithURB, or UBR, or that type if back and forth. We should be supporting both these modders afternoon getting to the bottom of it.

I want Sko around, I like Sko and his team. I also love this project, and I think it's important to keep it around for 2K13 and 2K14.


It is necessary i stand with them, because they are for some reason under attack by some. They are two of the most helpful people i know and they amount of time and work theyve put into this is legendary and unfathomable, even for modding standards. ,and I stand by and support whatever sko and slimm decide. personally i trust them 100% ive gotten to know them off of NLSC as well and they are great people who really care about their work and the community.
Collector & Trader of vintage NBA games, DVD, and memorabilia
User avatar
WithAuthority
ABL Commish
 
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:43 am

Re: U R Basketball - WHERE SIM HAPPENS! NEW 2019 ROSTER! 19th July

Postby Erchamion on Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:56 pm

Dee4Three wrote:I am going to say this, as I have more freedom as I am a contributor (not an admin) to basically say what is on my mind freely.

Skoadam, cut the shit. And I say that as a friend on here, I always got along with you. But seriously, grow up and cut the shit.

The entire premise of your project could be considered a copycat project, the entire thing. The UBR came first for 2K12, and this mod came the year after with a lot of similarities. I could give two fucks about what you chose for a name, I am talking about the project itself. I am not saying you copied, because you didn't copy exactly, and you had some of your own modders (like Slimm, Monzki) who contributed a lot of work. But, this bullshit of attacking nyflava for using some of Slimms ideas to improve the UBR, using his inspiration from Slimm to help that project, is nothing short of petty and childish. You can kick and scream all you want, you can say "I expected more out of you, Dee", you can say "HOW CAN YOU SIDE WITH THEM ON THIS!", etc. None of that matters, I've been following this from the beginning and my stance is rock solid. He drew inspiration from Slimm, he did not copy Slimm exactly, and similarities will exist between both rosters as they seek a ton of the same goals.

Nyflava actually kept the UBR alive, which Hawk based his updates on. I am disappointed in Hawk for not sticking up for Nyflava (I have no problems with stating this publicly), Hawk and I have always had a good relationship. I am disappointed that he has stayed silent outside of one outburst he made, I am disappointed that he is continually asking other people to make decisions in regards to things like faces/research etc that I believe he could do himself. This is the first he is seeing of my disappointment, and he may not give a shit (Which is his choice). But I don't like the way things have been handled since his return, either. Especially him not sticking up for Nyflava, and basically not handling conflicts himself. He should be at the forefront, as he is the leader of his project, and he should stand up for those who help him in his project.

I think you are handling this like a crybaby, I think Hawk is also not handling his side right, I think NyFlava could have noted that he took inspiration from Slimm from the start (but should be allowed to continue), etc. I also stand with Andrews handling of the situation, as I think it was a fair resolve. I think that NyFlava should be allowed to continue, I think both projects are fantastic and should be continued, and I think that both of you (Hawk and Sko) need to realize the impact these two porjects have had on thousands of people, and appreciate that. I'm not saying hold hands, or even help eachother, I am saying handle things properly, maturely, and move the fuck on.

Sko and Hawk, I love what both of you guys bring to the community. You are ELITE in what you do project wise, I've always thought that. Maintaining these projects for years is ridiculously hard work, and I appreciate it. Hawk made me fall in love with 2K14 for the PC, Sko you made me fall in love with 2K13 for PC, all because of these massive mods and the work contributed by those behind them.

Let it go, move on.


Seriously, who are you to tell a modder he's a crybaby and he has to move on when a parasite steals "HIS" hard work. I'm sick and tired of people being politically correct. Investigate and take action!
User avatar
Erchamion
 
Posts: 341
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 6:38 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: .

Postby sticky-fingers on Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:26 pm

He's a great modder too, but he faced stolen work too.

In a perfect world, modders would release their work under CC licence. That's would avoid ego war.
my NBA2K : flickr | YouTube
User avatar
sticky-fingers
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:33 am

Next

Return to NBA 2K14 Modding

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: isko and 5 guests