Insight #9 - Defense

Talk about NBA 2K12 here.

Insight #9 - Defense

Postby JaoSming on Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:26 am

http://www.facebook.com/notes/nba-2k/nb ... 3254127267
  • New Defensive Stance controls
  • Seems like Right Stick Hands Up while moving is the biggest addition
  • New technology that allows arms to move away from strict animations for better intelligence while blocking/stealing
  • Live ball mechanics apply to shots/layups/dunks
  • Bigger advantage to the defender if he is user controlled rather than AI controlled
  • Can stop Eurosteps and spins during the gather, rather than waiting for the player to be airborne
  • No more steal attempts that change your momentum
  • Higher focus on Offensive and Defensive Balance
  • and strategy changes against pick n roll
Seems like a bunch of good improvements around the board.
Opinions are my own.

JaoSming
2KTV Producer
NBA 2K Developer
 
Posts: 29975
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: 2K

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby iPrototype on Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:27 am

Who came first the chicken or the egg? :shock:
User avatar
iPrototype
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:44 pm
Location: Miami, FL

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby JaoSming on Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:42 am

obviously the Admin of the current site :wink: (mainly due to main page news article links too)
Opinions are my own.

JaoSming
2KTV Producer
NBA 2K Developer
 
Posts: 29975
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: 2K

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby jaelove on Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:54 am

this was a great insight DEFENSE!!! DEFENSE!!!!
jaelove
 
Posts: 787
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:50 am

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby mlp111 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:18 am

this game is going to have a steep learning curve, all the new features, gameplay improvements, and etc. going to be CrAzY! :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:
User avatar
mlp111
 
Posts: 2607
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:43 pm

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby fjccommish on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:13 am

There is a lot of improvement in defense.

However, two concerning things.

One - when a human controlled player contests a shot it lowers the shot% more than if a CPU player contests a shot. While that's fine in player vs player games, if it's active in a game vs a CPU team then the CPU plays worse defense than a human player, by design.

Two - cpu players reacting more to other moves in addition to pump fakes makes CPU defense weaker. In 2K11 it was pretty easy to pump fake a CPU controlled player either to jump, or at least react to give a lane to the basket.
fjccommish
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:11 am

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Bnicolas13 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:34 am

Glad they paid just as much attention to defense. Really not sure what to think of all of it though, only something you can truly see through testing the game out.
CPU: Intel i7 2600K OC'd @ 4.4GHZ
GPU: 2 GTX 570s in SLI
RAM: 16 GB Corsair RAM
MOBO: ASRock Z77 Extreme 4
PSU: Rosewill Lightning 1300W
User avatar
Bnicolas13
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:31 am

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby The X on Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:08 am

I can see the wrap up being a cheese move like it is in real life. But just like real life, make your free throws.
User avatar
The X
is
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 11498
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby volsey on Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:06 am

God I love 2k.

These all sound like huge gameplay improvements if you ask me, but it will definitely be interesting to see how they actually all turn out. I haven't really noticed many of the things they've mentioned in any of the videos we've seen thus far, which may be a good indication that they're working properly?
User avatar
volsey
 
Posts: 1068
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:19 am
Location: Canada

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby puddnheadwilson on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:07 am

I wonder if it is possible to do a WWE move on someone flying through the air by doing the wrap up? :twisted:
puddnheadwilson
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:52 am

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Andrew on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:43 am

Awesome stuff. There were times in NBA 2K11 that I felt a step too slow or found myself overshooting the mark too easily on defense. Sounds like that won't be a problem this year. The strategy, the improvements to blocking and stealing, better balance...it all sounds great. Some of the new right stick controls on defense remind me of some the things I really liked about Freestyle Control in older versions of NBA Live which they've since moved away from a bit, so I'm glad to see NBA 2K adopt something similar. All in all a great Insight, very encouraging stuff.

fjccommish wrote:One - when a human controlled player contests a shot it lowers the shot% more than if a CPU player contests a shot. While that's fine in player vs player games, if it's active in a game vs a CPU team then the CPU plays worse defense than a human player, by design.


I think they're referring to CPU teammates rather than CPU opponents there. However, that may still present an issue if your CPU controlled teammates are significantly weaker at challenging shots than you are, since it could lead to frantic switching and trying to do everything just to get your team playing good defense. Hopefully it's effective enough that we're given incentive to defend the player with the ball but doesn't make CPU controlled teammates a liability.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Topics: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Topics: NBA 2K19 | NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
The One Admin
Administrator
 
Posts: 107627
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Pdub on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:47 am

IK (inverse kinetics) for the win. Hopefully it looks a lot better than the Elite 11 attempt. It almost looks like 2k11 had a little bit of it, as I noticed awkward movements of a defenders arm aiming towards the ball during contests sometimes.

On the flip side, we also addressed game balance issue. That is, being able to recover too quickly from a block attempt. There’s nothing more frustrating on the offensive side when you get the defender to bite on a pump fake only to see him right in front of you again a split second later. Now, when a defender goes up for an aggressive block, there will be a recovery period where he can’t immediately launch and run to get back. This change really balances out the game now.


I'm concerned about this. Reading between the lines, it sounds like the offensive controls aren't responsive enough to get a good shot off after getting the defender to fall for a fake, so they used a bandaid by taking control and response away from the defender. As long as it feels and looks realistic on both sides of the ball, I'm fine with it.

It's also great that they added pick and roll defense controls, but what about the offball rotation? Does the nearest defender step half way into the cutting lane of the roll man and his own man if you select the double team option on the ball handler?
Everything is a copy of a copy. Eventually, it distorts enough to look original.
Pdub
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 13231
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Pasadena, California, US

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Andrew on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:49 am

Possibly, but I'm thinking (hoping?) it's just referring to the elimination of rubberband/waterbug recoveries by the defense.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Topics: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Topics: NBA 2K19 | NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
The One Admin
Administrator
 
Posts: 107627
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby shadowgrin on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:50 pm

During the gather, from the moment the shooter starts the shot and before he leaves the ground, he is vulnerable. During that window, a defender can strip the ball away by timing the steal command properly.

I had no idea something that was present since 2K7 was an oversight in 2K11. :o
Much easier to strip the ball when the ball handler picks up his dribble before taking the shot. There were no gathers in the previous game but the principle is the same in attempting the steal.
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
JaoSming2KTV wrote:its fun on a bun
shadowgrin
Doesn't negotiate with terrorists. NLSC's Jefferson Davis. The Questioneer
 
Posts: 23216
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:21 am
Location: In your mind

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Pdub on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:05 pm

It was not an oversight in 2k11, since I have stripped a few layup attempts, but made much more difficult than in 2k10 and 2k9. There were plenty of gathers. Every eurostep, hopstep, and two step the player takes before the layup was a gather.
Everything is a copy of a copy. Eventually, it distorts enough to look original.
Pdub
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 13231
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Pasadena, California, US

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Dan's Brain on Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:00 am

Andrew wrote:
fjccommish wrote:One - when a human controlled player contests a shot it lowers the shot% more than if a CPU player contests a shot. While that's fine in player vs player games, if it's active in a game vs a CPU team then the CPU plays worse defense than a human player, by design.


I think they're referring to CPU teammates rather than CPU opponents there. However, that may still present an issue if your CPU controlled teammates are significantly weaker at challenging shots than you are, since it could lead to frantic switching and trying to do everything just to get your team playing good defense. Hopefully it's effective enough that we're given incentive to defend the player with the ball but doesn't make CPU controlled teammates a liability.


Also hoping that it isn't the case in MyPlayer/Become a Legend. Happened too often in 2k11 that your team-mates in those modes would be left napping.
User avatar
Dan's Brain
My Manwich!
 
Posts: 2150
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:08 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia.

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Andrew on Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:25 am

Supposedly the AI has been beefed up for My Player. Presumably CPU teammates in My Player aren't similarly disadvantaged, since obviously you can't switch players in that mode. It certainly wouldn't be very fair or logical to make it that way in a player locked mode, at any rate.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Topics: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Topics: NBA 2K19 | NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
The One Admin
Administrator
 
Posts: 107627
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Lean on Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:08 pm

I hope they scrapped the CPU defense's "no-look" pass interceptions. That suck a lot of monkey balls.
User avatar
Lean
The Artist Formerly Known as Crappystuff
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 7641
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Pilipinas

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby J@3 on Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:31 pm

So anxious to get some info about Association mode. I really hope they've fixed up the shot blocking animations, I thought they were garbage in 2K11 and kinda ruined the fun of blocking shots.
User avatar
J@3
 
Posts: 19815
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:25 pm
Location: MLB

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Lean on Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:34 pm

That too. I've encountered a lot of blocked shots with the ball not really being blocked.
User avatar
Lean
The Artist Formerly Known as Crappystuff
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 7641
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Pilipinas

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby _Steve_ on Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:43 pm

Lean wrote:I hope they scrapped the CPU defense's "no-look" pass interceptions. That suck a lot of monkey balls.


I was often close to biting in my desk because of that...
“Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.” - Mark Twain
User avatar
_Steve_
 
Posts: 1652
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:09 pm
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Lean on Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:48 pm

Baseball pass to your guy on the other side of the floor for a fastbreak, then a guy on the defensive end that you don't see, intercepts the ball (which was supposedly going at a speed) with a tap -- WITH A TAP. And his fingers didn't hurt! The ball was then tapped into his team mate who was there at the exact moment. :lame: Happened a lot in 2K11.
User avatar
Lean
The Artist Formerly Known as Crappystuff
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 7641
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Pilipinas

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby _Steve_ on Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:12 pm

Lean wrote:Baseball pass to your guy on the other side of the floor for a fastbreak, then a guy on the defensive end that you don't see, intercepts the ball (which was supposedly going at a speed) with a tap -- WITH A TAP. And his fingers didn't hurt! The ball was then tapped into his team mate who was there at the exact moment. :lame: Happened a lot in 2K11.

That's why I don't score any measurable points of fast breaks in 2k11. I can't throw baseball passes with any consistency even with guys like Jason Kidd or Pau Gasol who usually can do things like that...
“Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.” - Mark Twain
User avatar
_Steve_
 
Posts: 1652
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:09 pm
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby koberulz on Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:11 pm

Lean wrote:Baseball pass to your guy on the other side of the floor for a fastbreak, then a guy on the defensive end that you don't see, intercepts the ball (which was supposedly going at a speed) with a tap -- WITH A TAP. And his fingers didn't hurt! The ball was then tapped into his team mate who was there at the exact moment. :lame: Happened a lot in 2K11.

The silly thing with that is that the ball usually falls at their feet, instead of flying out of bounds as would actually happen in a game.
User avatar
koberulz
Everything I say is false.
 
Posts: 4636
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Insight #9 - Defense

Postby Andrew on Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:13 pm

Supposedly the psychic steals/interceptions have been removed. The gameplay footage OS posted would seem to confirm that is the case, though it remains to be seen whether the AI plays a few dirty tricks in that regard on the highest difficulty setting.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Topics: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Topics: NBA 2K19 | NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
The One Admin
Administrator
 
Posts: 107627
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Next

Return to NBA 2K12

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests