All Time Franchise Face Off

[wolfbeard]

http://www.filefront.com/17703831/Franchise%20Face-off.rar

Who wins if each franchise has its best players who ever suited up in their primes?

This is obviously not an original idea, as you can see the above picture is the logo for a similar idea ESPN ran this fall and many others have talked about doing.

[/URL]


Thanks:
This project wouldn’t be possible without so many great modders who have generously shared their work. I have used literally dozens upon dozens of CFs and other mods, so naming them all would be impossible, but I would like to give props to some modders whom I relied on heavily:

GH33, MiR, URH28 for multiple awesome CFs, tmaccyril for fantastic T-Macs, Tommyhtc for CFs and list of fixed legends / hidden players, and all the other contributors to the 2k10 ’97 mod. I referenced fifedawg's stats spreadsheet heavily, so shout out to him for his great research. If I used your work and left you out, I apologize. Let me know and I will immediately give you credit.

Here are some other resources I used:

ESPN Page Two’s All Time Greatest Roster: they did a tournament with basically the same rules I’m following. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/features/nbaLineup

ESPN’s All Time Greatest Team’s Bracket: a very cool app. http://espn.go.com/espn/greatestteam/nba/

Basketball-reference.com A great resource for all kinds of stats

http://www.filefront.com/17703831/Franchise%20Face-off.rar

Update

http://www.filefront.com/17771828/FF2.rar

• Added retro jerseys for most teams. Credit to MiR and makers of the 2k10 92 mod
  
• Added Players. Credits to Juan33 for his Barkley and Tommyhtc for his Sam Jones.
  
• Set all player contracts to 50k to make roster more manageable in Association
  
• Assigned portraits for legends
  
• Added nicknames. These show in Association news feeds.

[jaelove]

wow nice

[JaoSming]

moved to Total Conversions

looks fun man

[StormsWarning]

ty so much for spending as much time as you did on this, this will defintly go in my game upon release, wow~!

[Tommyhtc]

Looks very promising!
but don't release it on 2kshare,
I really don't see how you can release custom CFs on that.

It's nice to see Kareem there,
great job in converting CFs from 2k10.

looking forward to your release!

[LittleMan]

bro how do u put the players on the team?????

[wolfbeard]

Looks very promising!
but don't release it on 2kshare,
I really don't see how you can release custom CFs on that.

It's nice to see Kareem there,
great job in converting CFs from 2k10.

looking forward to your release!

Thanks. I appreciate your great work on the retro mods. I just wish those great retro jerseys and courts would convert to 2k11 so I could use some in this.

I didn't think I would be able to use CFs through 2kshare, but wasn't sure how it would work. I will just upload PNGs here.

Since head shapes didn't convert, some of the CFs from 2k10 look better than others, unfortunately. The following players are serviceable, but they could use a custom head shape if any modders are interested:
Reggie Miller
Charles Barkley
Lakers Kareem (currently using James Worthy head shape and it looks ok, but could be better)
Drazen Petrovic
Calvin Murphy from Rockets
young Steve Francis
Chris Webber
Latrell Sprewell
Kiki Vandeweghe
Robert Horry

Here are some role players not in the game that I would love to include:
Arvydas Sabonis
Muggsy Bogues
Damon Stoudamire (I know all three are in the 97 mod for 2k10 but I don't have access to their PNG number)

bro how do u put the players on the team?????

Are you asking what my criteria was for selecting players to a team? Or how I physically put legends on modern teams?

• To physically put the legends on their respective teams, I had to create most of them myself and assign their CFs using the great MP mod tool. A few others I downloaded from Lhead2's 2kshare. To give them correct stats, accessories and signature moves, I used basketball-reference, SI Vault, and youtube. Once they were created I put them all on their modern teams, except for the players on the Thunder, who I transferred to the Sonics.
  
• If you are asking about my criteria for which team they go to, that was based on what years they were at their best. For example, Wilt was great on the Lakers, but he was more dominant on the Sixers. If it was close, I tried to maintain competitive balance. For example, Kareem's production was comparable on the Lakers and Bucks, but the Lakers already had Shaq dominating at center so Kareem went to the Bucks.

[nbagnome]

Can NOT WAIT for this!

Question...you mentioned using this for association play. I've made a similar all-time group(not nearly as deep). The issue i've faced...

Higher player ratings=high contracts=Over Hard Cap for many seasons=No player trades(not a major issue for this mod)=Major FA's sign long term contracts for Mid-Level Exp (for teams that can get below hard cap)=Many Stars left unsigned=Repeatable crash for me unless I let the CPU handle contracts

So I guess my question is how did you handle their incoming contracts?

[Tommyhtc]

Thanks. I appreciate your great work on the retro mods. I just wish those great retro jerseys and courts would convert to 2k11 so I could use some in this.

I didn't think I would be able to use CFs through 2kshare, but wasn't sure how it would work. I will just upload PNGs here.

Since head shapes didn't convert, some of the CFs from 2k10 look better than others, unfortunately. The following players are serviceable, but they could use a custom head shape if any modders are interested:
Reggie Miller
Charles Barkley
Lakers Kareem (currently using James Worthy head shape and it looks ok, but could be better)
Drazen Petrovic
Calvin Murphy from Rockets
young Steve Francis
Chris Webber
Latrell Sprewell
Kiki Vandeweghe
Robert Horry

Here are some role players not in the game that I would love to include:
Arvydas Sabonis
Muggsy Bogues
Damon Stoudamire (I know all three are in the 97 mod for 2k10 but I don't have access to their PNG number)

LOL, I actually asked the original CFs makers for permission to convert their headshapes to 2k11 and unfortunately they denied.
Don’t take the PNGs down, to be honest I don’t see a huge problem in it as long as you give credits. I think they would have definitely appreciated your work.

Interesting but where did you get Calvin Murphy and Kiki vandeweghe? From the 92 mod?

The PNG numbers:
Sabonis 597 from the 1997 patch
Bogues 1343
D-stad 301
edit: by the way, please give me the PNG numbers that you want for those players if possible and hopefully I can register them to the cf list

[wolfbeard]

Thanks. I appreciate your great work on the retro mods. I just wish those great retro jerseys and courts would convert to 2k11 so I could use some in this.

I didn't think I would be able to use CFs through 2kshare, but wasn't sure how it would work. I will just upload PNGs here.

Since head shapes didn't convert, some of the CFs from 2k10 look better than others, unfortunately. The following players are serviceable, but they could use a custom head shape if any modders are interested:
Reggie Miller
Charles Barkley
Lakers Kareem (currently using James Worthy head shape and it looks ok, but could be better)
Drazen Petrovic
Calvin Murphy from Rockets
young Steve Francis
Chris Webber
Latrell Sprewell
Kiki Vandeweghe
Robert Horry

Here are some role players not in the game that I would love to include:
Arvydas Sabonis
Muggsy Bogues
Damon Stoudamire (I know all three are in the 97 mod for 2k10 but I don't have access to their PNG number)

LOL, I actually asked the original CFs makers for permission to convert their headshapes to 2k11 and unfortunately they denied.
Don’t take the PNGs down, to be honest I don’t see a huge problem in it as long as you give credits. I think they would have definitely appreciated your work.

Interesting but where did you get Calvin Murphy and Kiki vandeweghe? From the 92 mod?

The PNG numbers:
Sabonis 597 from the 1997 patch
Bogues 1343
D-stad 301
edit: by the way, please give me the PNG numbers that you want for those players if possible and hopefully I can register them to the cf list

That's disappointing they would not allow you to use their CFs, I didn't think it would be a problem. Like I said before, I originally was planning on just using this for personal use and didn't give it much thought. I will go back and give more thorough credit before I release.

Thanks for their numbers. Do you know Robert Horry's from 97 mod and Drazen from 92?

I actually made Kiki and Murphy myself. That is not my strong point and they're not great, but serviceable enough for me:


I'll say again that if any modders are interested in creating some of those legends I listed, they could be better.

Can NOT WAIT for this!

Question...you mentioned using this for association play. I've made a similar all-time group(not nearly as deep). The issue i've faced...

Higher player ratings=high contracts=Over Hard Cap for many seasons=No player trades(not a major issue for this mod)=Major FA's sign long term contracts for Mid-Level Exp (for teams that can get below hard cap)=Many Stars left unsigned=Repeatable crash for me unless I let the CPU handle contracts

So I guess my question is how did you handle their incoming contracts?

Good question. I edited down many of the crazier contracts for their first two years and did not have any problems with this in year one of my association. I actually turned computer trades off because I wanted legends to stay where I put them. Although, I could see it being fun to allow them to mix up a few seasons in. As soon as Reditor releases I will go back and give them reasonable contracts down the line, as well as their correct bio info, such as draft year / round etc.

[Bassman58]

I look forward to this roster. I did this for myself using NBA Live in the past so I know it's a lot of research and work. There will be those that question your player choices but you do what you feel is correct. I used games played as a factor. That way players that were primarily subs, but valuable members are on the rosters. I also did not include players who were on a team for a few seasons, like Bob McAdoo and the Knicks (like ESPN did). Having players in the free agent pool lets you or anybody else make changes. It was often difficult to leave a player off of a team but in NBA Live I was able to have more that 15 roster slots.

[nbagnome]

Can't wait for Saturday's Release!

(edit)
I see you backed the release up a day or so... can't wait. Seriously.

[wolfbeard]

Here are the Atlantic Division rosters. I know this is a lot of text, but I wanted to include a rationale for why players went where.

76ers
PG- Mo Cheeks
SG- Allen Iverson –MVP year. He needs a better head shape; I hope someone does this soon
SF- Andre Iguodala
PF- Charles Barkley- He was great in Phoenix, but an absolute force of nature in Philly. He needs a custom head shape.
C -Wilt Chamberlain- More dominant in Philly than LA.
F- Billy Cunningham
F- Bobby Jones-
PG- Hal Greer
G- Andrew Toney
C/F- Dolph Schayes
G/F- Doug Collins - had an injury plagued career, but when he was healthy he was one of the games best finishers.
G- Kyle Korver – He provides a legitimate deep threat; was better in Utah but they don’t need his shooting.
C- Samuel Dalembert
C/F- Darryl Dawkins - never a double-double type player, but he broke backboards, so he can ride the pine here. Tommyhtc, when it's finished can I use your Dawkins CF? I haven't seen any other good ones.
G- Evan Turner
Bonus player -*80’s Julius Erving*

Celtics
PG –Rondo
SG -Paul Pierce (I picked ’02 version because he was more athletic and shot the rock better- 40% from deep- rather than the ’06 version where he scored slightly more points and had a few more assists.)
SF -Larry Bird- 86 version
PF -Kevin McHale- in '87 he was fourth in MVP voting and first team all NBA
C -Bill Russell
C The Chief, Robert Parish
C -Dave Cowens
G/F -Hondo
G -Bob Cousy
F- Antoine Walker
EDIT: forgot to list G- Dennis Johnson - he had better scoring years for the Sonics and Suns, but his best pure point guard seasons were in Boston.
G- Bill Sharman EDIT: Danny Ainge
G- Sam Jones
Edit: G/F - Reggie Lewis
Bonus player - *Celtics version Ray Allen* Could provide even more deadly outside shooting.

Knicks
PG- Walt Frazier
SG -Earl Monroe- his most productive years were with Washington, but the Knicks are a high level team in desperate need of a good shooting guard so I bent the rules slightly to get him to New York. (Plus, the Wizards won’t miss him since they have Wall and Arenas in the back court).
SF-Bernard King
PF- Bob McAdoo- As Bassman58 mentioned above, ESPN had him here. I'm torn. The Clippers suck, but his best scoring years were with Buffalo. I may end up moving him to the Clippers to stay within the rules. What do you think?
C-Patrick Ewing- 1990 version, the only time he was first team all NBA.
F-David Lee
C- Willis Reed- One of the all time great enforcers, if you've never seen him hobble onto the court and take it to Wilt, hit up YouTube immediately.
G- Allan Houston
G-Jon Starks
F-Charles Oakley
F- Anthony Mason – He makes it over Bill Bradley because Bradley is overrated and Mason is already in the game. Sorry.
G- Raymond Felton
Bonus Player -*late 90's Patrick Ewing*



Nets
PG-Jason Kidd
SG- Michael Ray Richardson - before drugs got him booted he was an absolute beast: in 1985 he averaged 20 points and 8 assists, plus he lead the league in steals with 3 a game.
SF-Julius Erving – he won a championship in Philly, but he was a legend for the Nets in the ABA. I teetered back and forth on this one, that's why I included a Philly version if you want to move him there.
PF-Derrick Coleman- he had some very productive early years.
C-Brook Lopez
F- Richard Jefferson
F- Buck Williams - he was at his most productive for the Nets
F-Kenyon Martin - best years were with Kidd.
F- Keith Van Horn
G- Devin Harris '09 he averaged 21 and 7
F- Derrick Favors
EDIT: Drazen Petrovic is on the Nets. Forgot to include him in the initial list.
EDIT: Kerry Kittles is on my to do list.
Bonus player *Vince Carter in '05*

Raptors
PG- Damon Stoudamire - he had some solid early years in Toronto
SG- Vince Carter - was an athletic monster in Toronto, even if he never lived up to expectations
SF- Mo Pete - a legit deep threat, he averaged almost 40% from 3 in '06.
PF- Chris Bosh - I broke up the big three in South Beach. I just felt that individually, they were all better on their original squads. I went back and forth on this; if you want them all together, have at it.
C- Andrea Bargnani
F/C- Jerome Williams - garbage man who adds some toughness to an otherwise pretty soft team.
G- Rafer Alston - Skip To My Lou had some decent years in Canada - 14 and 6 in '05.
G-Jose Calderon
G/F-Anthony Parker - shot 44 % from downtown in '07.
G – T.J. Ford
Bonus Player - *Older Jalen Rose*

[jenroe962002]

This is an awesome MOD

[Tommyhtc]

[quote="wolfbeard"]

Here are the Atlantic Division rosters. I know this is a lot of text, but I wanted to include a rationale for why players went where.

quote]

Great list there, I like how you gave the specific year and reason for including that player,

For the sixers team, I think you should include moses Malone as well.
For the Celtics team I don’t think you should include Bill Sharman, he wouldn’t fit too well into the height orientated 2k11, considering he was a 6”1 shooting guard, and also the Celtics team certainly needs more perimeter defense, so I believe Dennis Johnson should be the better choice.

For the knicks team why not include stephon marbury as the backup point guard instead of Raymond Felton, unless you want marbury to be with KG or in the suns.

For the raptors team Antonio Davis should be there.

[wolfbeard]

Here are the Atlantic Division rosters. I know this is a lot of text, but I wanted to include a rationale for why players went where.

quote]

Great list there, I like how you gave the specific year and reason for including that player,

For the sixers team, I think you should include moses Malone as well.
For the Celtics team I don’t think you should include Bill Sharman, he wouldn’t fit too well into the height orientated 2k11, considering he was a 6”1 shooting guard, and also the Celtics team certainly needs more perimeter defense, so I believe Dennis Johnson should be the better choice.

For the knicks team why not include stephon marbury as the backup point guard instead of Raymond Felton, unless you want marbury to be with KG or in the suns.

For the raptors team Antonio Davis should be there.

Moses is on Rockets because he had slightly better years there, but the Rockets are loaded with bigs, (Yao, Olajuwon, Ralph Sampson) so I've considered moving him to Philly and shuffling Barkley to small forward in starting line up. He played plenty of small forward in the '80s.

Dennis Johnson is on my Celtics roster, I just forgot to post him in the list. (No way Big Baby makes it over DJ). I will probably add Reggie Lewis as well to inject some athleticism. I agree with your comment about Bill Sharman, Ainge will replace him.

Young Starbury is in Minnesota because he was needed there more than in New Jersey or Phoenix.

Antonio Davis is on my list of players to add this weekend.

[jenroe962002]

I Think you should replace Antoine Walker with Don Nelson or Tommy Heinsohn or
Jo Jo White

[Bboy500]

sweet cant wait to try this out!

[Tommyhtc]

I Think you should replace Antoine Walker with Don Nelson or Tommy Heinsohn or
Jo Jo White

Tommy Heinsohn or Don Nelson could be included if we were to choose a celtics all-honors roster,
Jo Jo white is debatable,
but I think realistically, Antoine Walker would be a better fit in the celtics team,

with enough defense in the low post like Bill Russell and Dave Cowens,

Antoine could probably give the celtics a lot of fire power coming off the bench and his three point shooting will certainly stretch the floor.

Edit:
if Bill Sharman is to be replaced, why not replace him with Len Bias?
Will be great for celtics fans

For the Knicks, I agree with your point to move Mcadoo to the clippers,
for the forward spot, you should replace it with dave debusschere, a great shooter and rebounder.
And I really don't think Raymond Felton should be there, he had only been here for 20 games and hadn't accomplish anything yet.
You should consider putting in Nate Robinson for the sake of star power, and use Raymond Felton to fill the shallow bobcats roster.


For the nets, Petrovic should be there as well, I think you could take out one of the forwards, perhaps Keith van horn

at last for the raptors, can you please find a spot for jamario Moon?

[Bboy500]

I Think you should replace Antoine Walker with Don Nelson or Tommy Heinsohn or
Jo Jo White

Tommy Heinsohn or Don Nelson could be included if we were to choose a celtics all-honors roster,
Jo Jo white is debatable,
but I think realistically, Antoine Walker would be a better fit in the celtics team,

with enough defense in the low post like Bill Russell and Dave Cowens,

Antoine could probably give the celtics a lot of fire power coming off the bench and his three point shooting will certainly stretch the floor.

Edit:
if Bill Sharman is to be replaced, why not replace him with Len Bias?
Will be great for celtics fans

For the Knicks, I agree with your point to move Mcadoo to the clippers,
for the forward spot, you should replace it with dave debusschere, a great shooter and rebounder.
And I really don't think Raymond Felton should be there, he had only been here for 20 games and hadn't accomplish anything yet.
You should consider putting in Nate Robinson for the sake of star power, and use Raymond Felton to fill the shallow bobcats roster.


For the nets, Petrovic should be there as well, I think you could take out one of the forwards, perhaps Keith van horn

at last for the raptors, can you please find a spot for jamario Moon?

I'll agree with this ^^.

[wolfbeard]

Central Division

Cavaliers
PG- Mark Price
SG- Ron Harper- before he was traded to the Clippers in ’90, he was having a career year
SF-LeBron James- last year he averaged nearly 30, 9 and 7.
PF-Cliff Robinson
C- Brad Daugherty
G/f- Ricky Davis – he averaged 20 and 5 in ‘03
PG-Andre Miller- in 2005 he led the league in APG
G- Craig Ehlo
G- Mo Williams
C- Ilgauskas – in 2003 he was an all-star (and had hair)
F-John Williams




Pacers
PG- Mark Jackson
SG- Reggie Miller- using his career scoring year in ’90. He desperately needs a head shape if anyone is up for it.
SF-Ron Artest – before the brawl
PF- Detlef Schrempf- best year was as a Pacer in ’93.
C- Jermaine O’Neal
F- Danny Granger
G- Jalen Rose- averaged 20 ppg in 2001.
C- Rik Smits
F- Chuck Person - The Rifleman.
F-Mike Dunleavy
G-Jamaal Tinsley – there are some more deserving Pacers but he’s already in the game, and he has the highest APG in franchise history

Pistons
PG- Isiah Thomas
SG- Joe Dumars
SF- Grant Hill- First Team All NBA year
PF-Ben Wallace- offensive liability but lockdown defender
C- Bob Lanier
G- Dave Bing
C/F- Bill Laimbeer
PG- Chauncey Billups
G- Richard Hamilton
F/G- Jerry Stackhouse- had career years in Detroit
F- Tayshaun Prince

Bucks
PG- Oscar Robertson- Breaking a big rule here because I’m putting him on the Bucks in his prime. He should be on the Kings of course, but they are loaded with solid PGs and Kareem needs a running mate.
SG-Sidney Moncrief
SF-Glenn Robinson
PF- Andrew Bogut (can obviously play center while Kareem gets a break)
C- Kareem- slightly better here than in LA, plus he and Big O make them a legit force in the East
F- Vin Baker
G- Michael Redd
G-Brandon Jennings
(We’ll see what happens with rest of roster depending on how much time I have to create role players)

Bulls
PG- Derek Rose- imagine the penetration threat with him, Jordan and Pippen all on the floor at the same time.
SG-Michael Jordan- Barely edges out Ben Gordon for starting spot. Using ’92 year.
SF- Scottie Pippen- ’94 version
PF-Horace Grant- best all around PF Bulls have to offer.
C-Artis Gilmore- slow, but shot blocker supreme.
PF- Dennis Rodman- goes here because Pistons were crowded with defensive bigs.
F-Jerry Sloan- tough perimeter defender. He needs a better head shape
F-Orlando Woolridge- yet another explosive athlete the Bulls could trot out when their big guns are resting.
G/F- Reggie Theus- big time scorer but played little D
C- Bill Cartwright
G- Ben Gordon, could be a spark off the bench and stretch the floor
F-Toni Kukoc- 6th man of the year, but probably wouldn’t see much tick
G-Steve Kerr- I picked him over other shooters because of his eye popping, all time year- .524 from deep. (yes, the line was shorter that year, but the man shot over 50% four different times in career.)
F/C-Joakim Noah- just in case the Bulls need someone to make fun of an opponent’s city.

[StormsWarning]

great job looking forward to the release, but i agree, in order to get cf's you'll have to load them up on like a file front or something like that, along with the roster, overall, it looks really great and im looking forward to playing with it.

[jenroe962002]

I Think you should replace Antoine Walker with Don Nelson or Tommy Heinsohn or
Jo Jo White

Tommy Heinsohn or Don Nelson could be included if we were to choose a celtics all-honors roster,
Jo Jo white is debatable,
but I think realistically, Antoine Walker would be a better fit in the celtics team,

with enough defense in the low post like Bill Russell and Dave Cowens,

Antoine could probably give the celtics a lot of fire power coming off the bench and his three point shooting will certainly stretch the floor.

Edit:
if Bill Sharman is to be replaced, why not replace him with Len Bias?
Will be great for celtics fans

For the Knicks, I agree with your point to move Mcadoo to the clippers,
for the forward spot, you should replace it with dave debusschere, a great shooter and rebounder.
And I really don't think Raymond Felton should be there, he had only been here for 20 games and hadn't accomplish anything yet.
You should consider putting in Nate Robinson for the sake of star power, and use Raymond Felton to fill the shallow bobcats roster.


For the nets, Petrovic should be there as well, I think you could take out one of the forwards, perhaps Keith van horn

at last for the raptors, can you please find a spot for jamario Moon?

Jo Jo White has won a Finals MVP ,a great defender, a fantastic leader why is he debatable

Rick Mahorn Should be on Detroit Pistons

[JaoSming]

just barely caught your updates

F- Antoine Walker

yessir


no Dino on the Celtics should catch you a lot of flack but I'll let it slide for including the shimmy master

[wolfbeard]

just barely caught your updates

F- Antoine Walker

yessir


no Dino on the Celtics should catch you a lot of flack but I'll let it slide for including the shimmy master

Ha, if only there was a way to add signature celebrations ...

Jo Jo White has won a Finals MVP ,a great defender, a fantastic leader why is he debatable

Rick Mahorn Should be on Detroit Pistons

I thought about Mahorn too; I'll try to add him. (It's taking me a little longer because I'm really trying to fill out each franchise)

I actually made Jojo but his CF turned out a little goofy. If I can get it right he'll be a bonus free agent.