NBA Live 13 will not be released

Talk about NBA Live 14 here. Archived discussion on NBA Live 13 and NBA Elite 11 can also be found in this section.

Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby shadowgrin on Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:19 am

BLaZiNgSPEED wrote:a game that won't even score 6.5 average reviews. :?

If IGN reviews it it would be at least an 8.

TNBT wrote:I can give feedback to improve the game.

Yes they read/listen/consider those feedback and wishlists. Like they do every year.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby fjccommish on Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:53 pm

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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby homicide1550 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:27 pm

Hmmm. not really surprised with the announcement especially with the lack of updates they've been putting out.

I guess it's time to close this part of the forum.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Neplou on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:29 am

Man, that sucks! I was hoping to see what they came up with on this version! I have been a fan since way back in the Lakers Vs. Celtics days. I was rooting for them to do well and was secretly hoping they would show me some love and get back in the PC market. Oh well that big dream goes on the shelf!
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Andrew on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:51 am

I didn't think they'd end up cancelling the game after what happened with NBA Elite 11 but if they're not satisfied with the product and want to take the extra production cycle to polish it up for next year, so be it. It's a shame, I was hoping that the game could make a strong comeback this year but since the series appears to be going ahead and the developers are checking in on us, we've at least got a good opportunity to provide quality feedback to them directly.

Uros12 wrote:That basically means NBA Live 14 will be in development for 3 years(Im counting in NBA Live 13 development years).It better be good man,that is more than enough time to make a good b-ball game.


That's the problem, they didn't have three years. Production was halted when it was moved to Tiburon, then as I understand it time was spent researching and putting the team together, with the new team really only having one development cycle to work on it. They obviously needed more time, hopefully delaying until NBA Live 14 will afford them that.

Ebook22 wrote:why dont they just stop making basketball games? its already been cancelled twice and it wasnt like anyone was interested in it anyway


Actually, I'd say a fair few people were interested in it before the E3 demonstration and the resulting fallout. Interest did wane after that.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby dascoot on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:17 am

ok since 2013 isnt coming out. I hope they do have NBA Live 14. to me here are the top things

1) Multiplayer dynasty
2) Save during the offseason
3) In Save Games
4) Bigger Font to read the names of the players in mock draft.
5) In Mock Draft list first and last name of players
6) Realistic Trades
7) Add a draft list this really isn't that big of an issue but would be cool to have. to those of you not knowing what I'm talking about here it is. Draft List is in dynasty mode where from the first year to the current year you are on you see a list of what teams draft what player and draft night trades. Just would be a fun feature to add and something that 2K doesn't have.

to me those the first three are the most important to me.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Andrew on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:25 am

The current plan is for the series to continue next year with NBA Live 14, so by all means let's compile constructive feedback. I'd encourage anyone who's interested to get involved in the discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=131&t=87891
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Postgame on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:49 am

shadowgrin wrote:
TNBT wrote:I can give feedback to improve the game.

Yes they read/listen/consider those feedback and wishlists. Like they do every year.


First, I want to say that I'm assuming that statement was dripping with sarcasm. If not then this is not directed at you in particular but there are many that think we do not read wishlists and things of that nature.

That is something that simply isn't true. What some people have to understand is that when developing a game you have to take things in a logical progression. Things have to be built upon in order to move ahead to the next, it has to be A, B, C, and a lot of things that get requested are P, T, Z and those things we will try to get to in time but you cannot have some of the requested items until you get the foundation of the core gameplay locked down. You have to look at all things not in a budget of money but time. It takes man hours to accomplish tasks and you are only given so many of those, we have to prioritize what things we want every year and as the project moves along that cut line tends to inch up further the priority list because we run out of time.

If someone asks you would you rather us work on Feature A where you can be rewarded for stealing a pass that you timed perfectly and punished for mistiming it so people don't abuse the feature (and all the tuning that would go along with that) OR Feature B being able to throw yourself an alley-oop off the backboard which is something that may be fun to do but in all honestly is a feature that should be much lower on the priority list for us and rarely, and I mean rarely, occurs in the real NBA outside of the dunk contest, which would you want us to make work?

The truth is we face a great number of much tougher decisions than that one, and that one to me is a no-brainer that you go with feature (A). When you are building a foundation you have to put all these things into perspective and realize that we want the same things you guys do but we are constantly strapped for time, it's not that we ignore your feedback. I may not post a lot on here but I do read these boards often. I read other boards as well but I choose to post here because I feel like the atmosphere in this forum is more conducive to reaching our goal and a dialogue can take place here where we can learn from each other. If I felt that way other places I would visit them as well.

Scott and I both will be around and will answer what we can when you guys have questions but there is only so much we can say until some of the information is disseminated through the proper channels. I think when you guys do wishlists or give us feedback you should continue to break it into chunks but also make sure that the most direct feedback is always the best. I'll give you an example of what I mean. If someone says "your game is too fast" that doesn't really help us identify the problem because a statement like that is subjective often times. If someone says "when I am running full speed and do a crossover I lose zero momentum on the direction change" That is more directed feedback and is something that we can work with. Also something like shot %, if someone says "It's too easy to make 3 pointers" you need to be specific in why you think that. Are you open when you shoot the 3's? who was shooting it? what was his 3pt rating? If a defender was nearby what was his shot block rating? How many did you shoot? How many did you make? What do you think is a good percentage for a 99 rated 3pt shooter if he is wide open? What do you think his percentage should be if he is covered by another player who has a 99 shot block rating?

It's much easier to process things like this because what will happen otherwise is people have different opinions, and different game experiences where one person may go 0-10 and another 8-8 and they will give you complete opposite feedback believe it or not it happens all the time. So you tune it one way and then you hear the other person and then tune it back and you chase your tail. When giving feedback always try to keep these things in your mind so you can best communicate the problems you have with the game. Obviously you won't have the game this year to give feedback on but going forward giving info and feedback to us like this is the easiest way to get what you want accomplished.


Hope this helps.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Postgame on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:50 am

Also from now on if you guys prioritize what you would like to see most in each area like a top 10 for gameplay, modes, presentation, etc that would be much more helpful. If we can get a consensus of what the community feels is the most important things it's easier to focus on.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby 22cedric on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:58 am

Postgame wrote:Also from now on if you guys prioritize what you would like to see most in each area like a top 10 for gameplay, modes, presentation, etc that would be much more helpful. If we can get a consensus of what the community feels is the most important things it's easier to focus on.


Great statements thanks for clearing thing up for the NBA Live fans.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby JaoSming on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:00 am

Postgame, We can setup a thread for that kind of feedback. To provide clarification, should we assume you guys are able to "copy paste" (I know it's not that easy) features and such from older games, or do you want lists without influence from past games?
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Andrew on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:02 am

It is definitely reassuring to hear that our Wishlists are being read. As I've said in other threads, I'm sure you'll find folks around these parts who are willing and able to give quality feedback.

We can put together some lists like that for you, though for the moment I can present you with some of our supplementary materials from last year that include the top wishes for certain areas of the game: viewtopic.php?f=131&t=83174

I think most of them are around 20, though they could probably be trimmed down to a top 10-15 and further clarification could obviously be added if needed.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Nick on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:23 am

Hey cool. Thanks for stopping by Postgame. It really is appreciated and makes a huge difference i believe. I really like the idea of opening a dialogue between us and you. There are probably some trolls amongst us here at NLSC, sure, but for the most part there is a lot of guys who have been playing NBA Live since the 90's and early 2000's, and have will have a lot of valuable feedback for you guys at EA. Also, i think it is important for the community to feel involved in the developmental process, as that creates a sense of responsibility amongst the community, which in turn will diminish that sorta attitude of "EA did this and that wrong, they suck at that and this, them them them, blame blame blame", since it's on both of us. Get what i mean? Anyway, just wanted to say - good stuff. (Y)

As for some feedback? Welp, it would be my pleasure. Shall i post it here or somewhere else?
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Leftos on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:28 am

Everyone's invited to offer their feedback in a focused and organized manner using this new thread we've set-up especially for it.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Postgame on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:46 am

JaoSming wrote:Postgame, We can setup a thread for that kind of feedback. To provide clarification, should we assume you guys are able to "copy paste" (I know it's not that easy) features and such from older games, or do you want lists without influence from past games?



There really is no copying and pasting features from the old lives. Animations we have access to but those games ran on different code than what we work with now and even some of the animations will no longer really work from past lives unless we tweak them to the point where it would just be easier (and look better) to mocap them again.



Andrew as far as gameplay is concerned I can honestly say a lot of that we either have or are working on. I will say though that things like customization of controls is something that probably won't happen for a while if ever because of how many bugs are associated with something like that. It takes a lot of time to work the kinks out in feature like that and it will be used by probably less than 1 or 2 percent of the people who play the game. The development time could probably be spent elsewhere more effectively. (it goes back to the feature A vs feature B argument) Multiple controls schemes are a headache but not as bad as someone customizing it. Those might be more likely to happen.

In regards to something like this:

"Gamers also want smooth, fluid animations with responsive controls. Players need to feel like they have weight and a physical “presence”, but not move sluggishly with clunky-feeling controls like they’re wearing concrete boots or running in mud. Make sure users can break out of animations and that the transition is as seamless as possible."

This is the pie in the sky dream for all of us but it is a hard thing to balance and takes time and I'll explain why. Giving people control isn't necessarily diametrically opposed to giving people great animations but it is EXTREMELY hard to have them both. If you want to be able to branch out of any animation at any time you will have branch points in order to have the player transition from A to B. However, if the animation A to animation B are extremely different in how they are posed you are going to get either a snappy non fluid transition or a slower transition that takes away control and what will feel like responsiveness. Our goal is definitely to solve as many of these situations as possible, it's going to require a ton of animation and at times less control which will take time but we are aware of these issues and it is a high priority. It's much easier to plan for CPU controlled players and make them look better than a user controlled player because they can just spam buttons all over the place and have their player spaz out but then you have to ask yourself how much time should we spend trying to plan for end users who want to make the game look bad? Examples of bad transitions that you guys see will be the best feedback in regards to this but just know that we are working to rectify these problems and we are very much aware.


Again though, most of that gameplay list (my area) is either in or in the plan.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby JaoSming on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:34 am

It's going to be asked at some point, but what chances of developing a PC version for the next game?
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Postgame on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:38 am

I can't really answer that one, I know how much you guys like modding, I used to mod for FPS games back in the day and I know that there are a lot of positives when that happens but I'm not sure that decision makers will agree. I'll say that I hope we do but that is decided much further up.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Jackal on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:41 am

You can't really blame us for having posts dripping with sarcasm, I understand it's frustrating for you as a team member, but it's equally frustrating for us as customers when there are things we love about the franchise which seem to be taken out and never added back wishlist after wishlist. I understand the whole A-B-C principle, but something like in game saves can't be added?

Not to mention this is the first time in what seems like forever there is actual community interaction. Not just a meet & greet with a select few (which is a positive btw) and submitting wishlists never to get any to little feedback on them.

We've been submitting wishlists since god knows when, this is the first time I've read anyone say "hey asshat, be more specific please?"

I hope you guys manage an amazing game whenever one is released, I appreciate your effort & hard work and hope I will be enticed enough to buy it again.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Pdub on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:23 am

I don't think the modding is the biggest issue. :pirate:
My official stance is that there can always be a way of official in-game customization without infringing on unlicensed materials like jerseys, shoes, and likeness. Gameface is one. Another would be something similar to the create a jersey contest EA had a couple years ago. Designs were controlled through a set of layers and selectable design options. Most of the time, modders improve something in the game, and in some cases have actually fixed bugs. Whether it is just a cyberface or a roster rating. I think EA would be amazed at the result of embracing the customization from gamers in general and not just PC players who mod. We all have the same heart. We just want the game to be better.

As for the reasons of no Live release, only thing I can remember is that EA said something about a delivery method, and then reevaluating games for the PC platform audience(free to play). I thought Origin would be that delivery method. I don't believe we will see Live on the PC until EA can compete sales-wise with 2KSports, though.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby shadowgrin on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:27 am

Postgame wrote:
shadowgrin wrote:
TNBT wrote:I can give feedback to improve the game.

Yes they read/listen/consider those feedback and wishlists. Like they do every year.


First, I want to say that I'm assuming that statement was dripping with sarcasm. If not then this is not directed at you in particular but there are many that think we do not read wishlists and things of that nature.

What I posted was more of a generalized statement on the history of how the Live developers interact with this NBA Live-centric site in particular.

I know you guys are a completely new dev team (iirc ony 1 guy among you was from the Elite 11 team) but you guys are now the Live dev team and it cannot be avoided that the things you do will be measured up based on the other Live games/devs did in its 16 year history (based on games released) since there are people here in this site that have played Live 95 even way back to its predecessors like the VS series. Hardcore Live franchise fans, yes. Crazy, maybe.
It's up to you guys to prove us (or me) wrong that the new dev team is really sincere in having an interaction with the community to make a good Live game and not just a flash in the pan appearance just because you guys have more free time than usual since Live 13 is cancelled. (sorry for that last part, just couldn't resist the ribbing)

It's actually good to see the activity that you and Scott have here in the NLSC, multiple postings in threads just to reply to posts addressed to you. Both of you guys are probably more active here in a short period of time than the rest of the past dev team members combined who had been here, judging by post count and length of replies alone.


I understand the A-B-C logic but Jackal already made the point I wanted to say. Talking about removed features, also add Create a Team to that. It's been a decade now since that feature has been in a Live game and I think any basketball fan loves to build his own fantasy team just so he can play it.
But I understand that the game you guys are working on is somewhat from scratch so do what you gotta do to get your ABC's right and prioritized.


Postgame wrote:being able to throw yourself an alley-oop off the backboard which is something that may be fun to do but in all honestly is a feature that should be much lower on the priority list for us and rarely, and I mean rarely, occurs in the real NBA outside of the dunk contest

I know a certain NLSC admin who loves that. :lol:
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Postgame on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:37 am

Jackal wrote:You can't really blame us for having posts dripping with sarcasm, I understand it's frustrating for you as a team member, but it's equally frustrating for us as customers when there are things we love about the franchise which seem to be taken out and never added back wishlist after wishlist. I understand the whole A-B-C principle, but something like in game saves can't be added?

Not to mention this is the first time in what seems like forever there is actual community interaction. Not just a meet & greet with a select few (which is a positive btw) and submitting wishlists never to get any to little feedback on them.

We've been submitting wishlists since god knows when, this is the first time I've read anyone say "hey asshat, be more specific please?"

I hope you guys manage an amazing game whenever one is released, I appreciate your effort & hard work and hope I will be enticed enough to buy it again.



I don't blame anyone at all for being disappointed, I am disappointed myself. I can understand the frustrations of the community completely. There are plenty of legitimate gripes but one of the things I want to accomplish is to inform you guys as much as I am allowed and raise awareness of how things are viewed from our stand point so we limit the misunderstandings and bad communication of years past. When it comes to features being removed and not added back i cant speak to years past because i wasn't there to know the reasoning behind it. I can tell you that our approach is to make sure we get A right before B etc. in our case we could go two routes, lots of features done to half quality or few features done to great quality. I think most would say get the essentials right first. We all would love to say do both, but with the amount of work and limited time it was an either, or. We are faced with a lot of tough decisions, ones that I can't really elaborate on, trust me that no one gets more angry about a feature getting cut than the designer who worked on it. If it was up to us the game would never ship because we would want to add feature after feature because we are never satisfied but unfortunately time limits us and we have to at some point say ok next year we get this in.

In game saves are something that is on the radar and it wasn't an A,B,C problem as much as it was an either, or problem. I cant get into the nuts and bolts of it but there was a lot that goes into it believe it or not.

Wishlists may not have been responded to but they are often times read. I know that communication has not always been the best. I can't speak for the old studio or team and how they handled it but I can tell you that Scott and I will be around to answer as much as we can. I want us to be judged on what we have done and will do and not on years past, obviously it was a big let down not shipping but we are a dedicated team and we will be back strong. We can only say so much, there are plenty of times I would love to answer questions but my hands are tied, more often than not when you hear nothing from development it is for that very reason. We are a team of people very passionate about basketball, and I think at times the view of our team has been nowhere near that. I hope to change that by speaking with you guys.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Postgame on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:53 am

shadowgrin wrote:
Postgame wrote:
shadowgrin wrote:
TNBT wrote:I can give feedback to improve the game.

Yes they read/listen/consider those feedback and wishlists. Like they do every year.


First, I want to say that I'm assuming that statement was dripping with sarcasm. If not then this is not directed at you in particular but there are many that think we do not read wishlists and things of that nature.

What I posted was more of a generalized statement on the history of how the Live developers interact with this NBA Live-centric site in particular.

I know you guys are a completely new dev team (iirc ony 1 guy among you was from the Elite 11 team) but you guys are now the Live dev team and it cannot be avoided that the things you do will be measured up based on the other Live games/devs did in its 16 year history (based on games released) since there are people here in this site that have played Live 95 even way back to its predecessors like the VS series. Hardcore Live franchise fans, yes. Crazy, maybe.
It's up to you guys to prove us (or me) wrong that the new dev team is really sincere in having an interaction with the community to make a good Live game and not just a flash in the pan appearance just because you guys have more free time than usual since Live 13 is cancelled. (sorry for that last part, just couldn't resist the ribbing)

It's actually good to see the activity that you and Scott have here in the NLSC, multiple postings in threads just to reply to posts addressed to you. Both of you guys are probably more active here in a short period of time than the rest of the past dev team members combined who had been here, judging by post count and length of replies alone.


I understand the A-B-C logic but Jackal already made the point I wanted to say. Talking about removed features, also add Create a Team to that. It's been a decade now since that feature has been in a Live game and I think any basketball fan loves to build his own fantasy team just so he can play it.
But I understand that the game you guys are working on is somewhat from scratch so do what you gotta do to get your ABC's right and prioritized.


Postgame wrote:being able to throw yourself an alley-oop off the backboard which is something that may be fun to do but in all honestly is a feature that should be much lower on the priority list for us and rarely, and I mean rarely, occurs in the real NBA outside of the dunk contest

I know a certain NLSC admin who loves that. :lol:



I understand how we get lumped in with the"sins of the past" and I get the frustrations you guys have had. Create a team would be an abc problem, and I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to have but that wasn't something we were looking at as step A. I don't mind the ribbing and jao is going to have to wait for the Javale McGee special.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby JaoSming on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:08 am

:(


Somehow...I think I will survive. (Y)

Identifying what is and isn't an ABC problem in the feedback list thread would be very useful. Just so we know how to focus on what needs to be addressed.
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Andrew on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:46 am

That's great to hear a lot of the stuff on that list is feasible and actually in the works. I appreciate the insight into custom controller configurations too; from my perspective, so long as the controls scheme that's available is intuitive and responsive, I can grow accustomed to what the game presents me with. For a while there, THQ were changing up the control scheme in their WWE series in some way from game-to-game and it was always easy enough to adjust. If the controls work and feel good, I think people will adapt.

We also realise that you guys don't make the call about the PC version but you'll probably see mention of it here and there in the hopes that the folks that do make that call will reconsider. ;)
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Re: NBA Live 13 will not be released

Postby Pdub on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:06 pm

The thing about the ABC's reminds me of features getting taken out or re-written because once you have all the A's and start on the B's, the B's break the A's and you end up having to start over. What I am trying to get at is it seems like Live is tightly coded where one thing depends on the other, and once you change one thing, it breaks the balance of the game. So, when you are building your foundations, keep in mind that you will have to tune them later on when you want to add or change something. Think of it like interchangeable parts.

What I would do, is look at C or Z or wherever you would like the end result to be, then go backwards towards the basic fundamentals. That way you know the steps to take to get to your ultimate goal.
Everything is a copy of a copy. Eventually, it distorts enough to look original.
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