Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Talk about NBA Live 2005 here.

Postby SilentBob420BMFJ on Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:39 am

is this thread going to fire up again when 06 comes out? or are u guys gonna starta new?

if only i had a pen i could Back to top


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Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject:



i clicked on the link that says stop watching this

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005

3:35 pm Post
if only i had a pen i could do a REAL signature
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Postby SilentBob420BMFJ on Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:41 am

who agrees we shud make this thread an anal thread topic?
if only i had a pen i could do a REAL signature
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Postby SilentBob420BMFJ on Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:42 am

Hopsing, fucking play the game in english you stupid german chocolate man!
if only i had a pen i could do a REAL signature
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Postby The Other Kevin on Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:43 pm

Wow, a quintiple post. That HAS to be a record. But anyway, 1st-2nd post, Why the hell are you playing on starter? A dog can win on starter. 3rd, new voard, new thread. 4th, I think I found the kid who made that essat I posted before. And 5th, that may well be the most racist thing on the board not posted by Riot. Congrats.
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Postby lafce on Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:14 pm

Andrew, what sliders do you think are better for realistic gameplay - the ones posted here: http://www.nba-live.com/nba2005/sliders.php or those you've posted last in this thread on page 8 (aka Andrew Sliders v2.0)?

Thanks.
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Postby alchemi on Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:26 am

I'm trying to SIM games only and am having trouble getting realistic stats. Big guys FG percentage is very low (.420 range for guys who should be .500 ish). Blocks are also low (never a problem, I know, with game play). Plus, the very best players don't seem to shoot enough, and the worst seem to shoot too often.

Anyone have any good slider settins for sim only or links to sites about how sliders work?
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5 min

Postby asm311 on Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:01 pm

does anyone play on allstar 5 min Q?
i do, and i score like 90- 110 ppg with the normal ea sliders
and like 60% fg
so can someone make a slider for 5 min? ty
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Postby McDwyane on Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:02 pm

I really like your sliders (Y)
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Postby fcmonk on Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:59 pm

I just picked up this version after reading that it was one of the best versions sim-wise. I've used Andrew's sliders and am pleased with the results. The only real "problems" are that there are very few non-shooting fouls called (which isn't really that big of a problem) and there's a huge number of blocks, like 6 foot point guards with 8 blocks in a game. But I can live with that, even if it's a minor annoyance.
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Postby SWJ06 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:32 pm

Just finished reading through this whole thread and I have to admit I was surprised about the outcry of shot blocking problems. I play on all-star and shot blocks are rare, the computer is lucky to block me 3-4 times a game and I usually only get in a couple blocks on them. I only knew about the general slider settings when I was playing my first dynasty mode 82 game season (8 minute quarters, 5 fouls, no defensive three seconds for high school rules/finishable feeling). Those settings worked pretty well, I had CPU Assistance on thinking it was somethign it wasn't, still someone didn't come back every game and I was always mentally prepared for a possible late rally. Anyway now that I figured out where the User and CPU sliders are I changed a few things during the playoffs to better tweak things and I think I am going to take CPU Assistance off.

High shooting percentages (on default shooting settings) are more attributable to releasing shots the right way and passing it around for good shots. Super star mode in the best by far as not too many steals (like Starter...omg...) or blocks (like All-Star) and shooting is hard if your not smart setting up your shots.

I also run my games at speed 65 which seems to work well for Superstar. Scores usually in the 80's-100's range depending on how good the teams playing are defensively. I use a mix of post moves and guard shooting to score, generally have around 30-35 assists per game.

Only problem I have is not enough rebounds (and this is with rebounding on the defaults for CPU and User which is like 75/60 or something) this is largely because I think that some games I am shooting very well and with eight minute quarters not as many rebounds to get.


Anyway I picked up on Superstar pretty quick and seemed to win a lot of close games and a good number of blowouts. Of course I was playing with the Spurs and traded to get younger. Just went 74-8 on the Season. Swept the Clippers and Rockets in the 1st and 2nd rounds and am up 1-0 on the Lakers in the Conference Semi-finals. Playing with the updated 07 roster that was released a few months ago.

But I digress, I'll have to start another thread to talk about dynasty. My point is though you can learn to shoot/pass well and not get blocked...blocking generally occurs if you try to abuse some sort of move a lot or be too predictable. I almost never user power hop or drop step and still can score in the post.

Also haven't had any unrealistic fast break issues.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby dwayne2005 on Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:59 am

I tried messing with the settings but it kills my enjoyment somehow. I normally love customizing, but I wish the settings were better out of the box for this game. I don't like when there are 30 or so settings and each one changes the dynamics of the gameplay. It makes my mind overactive and critical, and I can't enjoy the game so much. Even though I tried to do up a customizable spreadsheet for my historic rosters seasons in NBA Live 2003, you are working directly on the ratings not some abstract. I'm glad it's there, but I don't think I will bother using it personally.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby dwayne2005 on Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:12 pm

I'm working on a spreadsheet for generating settings based on stats vs real life stats. I've confirmed my suspicion that adjusting game speed doesn't have the dramatic effect it should in terms of encouraging the user to shoot less frequently. The game speed went from 50, down to 39, down to 31, down to 26, down to 23... I think the user shoots as frequently as he wishes mostly despite the game speed, and adjusting it real low isn't necessarily worth the hit in gameplay. So I've come up with 4 possible solutions: 1) alter game speed (default: off); 2) altering shooting to try and encourage the user to pick better shots, this is after the shooting ratings have already been corrected to match their real life counterpart (default: on); 3) a mixture of 1 & 2, adjusted by adjustable weighting attributes; and 4) nothing at all, it gives an output for suggested quarter length for simulation.

My other stats are now not set to game averages, but rather, ratios to other factors, mostly possession. At the moment, I've simply defined the number of possessions as FGA, and may leave it that way. Steals and blocks are set as a ratio to opposition FGA (present in the database), and then compared to the steals and opposition FGA in the game stats and adjusted accordingly. 3/4ths of the personal foul settings are also weighted to opposition FGA, except the charge/block setting which is set to offensive FGA. The offensive rebounds are set as a ratio to your FG misses, and the defensive rebounds are set as a ratio to opposition FG misses.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby Andrew on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:49 pm

Well, the chances for a realistic game do depend on the user to some degree. If all you do is run and gun every possession or try to dump it inside and dunk everytime then the numbers won't be all that realistic.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby dwayne2005 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:43 pm

removed
Last edited by dwayne2005 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby dwayne2005 on Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:16 am

Critical flaw in the way my spreadsheet adjusts for pace with regards to the alteration of shooting. Up to now, I've assumed that having it adjusting for both teams may eventually even it out. It doesn't. It just means if you play faster, you'll both shoot at, say, around 42% rather than 49% and the incentive to slow down to find a better shot doesn't really exist. I'll revise my spreadsheet and start from scratch with only the human side penalized for the pace of the game in the shooting area. Should make it more competitive.

Trial and error...
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby dwayne2005 on Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:42 pm

Shame the human low for blocks and computer max for blocks isn't sufficiently wide enough. I am putting all players between 35-45 now down from 45-55. It should be a narrow range (10) because I think these low numbers -- blocks/steals per game -- are really built up by very small differences over large game time. Previously, with 45-55, my human rating was calculated to be tending 0 and the computers rating calculated tending to be fairly high, but usually not quite 100. Unfortunately, the last game I played with 45-55 ranges I got 13 blocks with Sam Lacey (1982-83) and 25 as a team collective. :? (Nothing in Sam Lacey's stats/ratings should have made him so prolific.) It's unfortunate because I think I made an important observation. The quicker you play, not only the more blocks you get against you, but the more in ratio to your shot attempts. In this way, if I could increase the computers block rating higher than 100 it would work as another incentive to slow down the game and pick shots more carefully. I've played one game with 35-45 set and unfortunately I had 7-1 blocks, but I also played the 100% right pace.

I wonder what setting the hex higher than 100 in the settings.dat file does. :?:

Just tried FF (256) in the hex for game speed and it came up in the in game menus as 255! Never played at the 100 setting before, but they looked a bit fast for 100. :) I might now have to remove the cap of 100 for my values.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby dwayne2005 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:02 am

Played a full game of Denver vs Detroit (1982-83) this morning:

Denver (me) 104-109 Detroit (CPU)
FG%: 45%-55%
FT%: 82%-50%
3PT: 27%-29%
Rebounds: 40-49
Off Rebounds: 13-12
Assists: 27-19
Blocks: 6-6
Steals: 9-7
Turnovers: 13-20
Personal fouls: 15-13

Rates (%real)
Scoring rate: 84%-97%
FG%: 91%-116%
FGA rate: 98%-96%
3PT%: 142%-108%
3PA rate: 974%-422% (yeah, I kind of shoot a few more than the really did)
FT%: 102%-67%
FTA rate: 52%-44% (I refuse to set shooting fouls too high)
Assist rate: 95%-74%
Rebound rate: 88%-106%%
Offensive rebound rate: 88%-75%
Defensive rebound rate: 88%-122%
Steal rate: 94%-85%
Block rate: 140%-86%
Personal foul rate: 59%-50%
Turnover rate: 71%-105%

Denver: Kiki Vandeweghe (28 PTS, 8 REB, 8 AST), Dan Issel (23 PTS, 10 REB, 3 BLK), Alex English (17 PTS, 3 STL)
Detroit: Kelly Tripucka (29 PTS), Isiah Thomas (18 PTS), Bill Laimbeer (14 PTS, 10 REB, 3 BLK), Terry Tyler (10 PTS, 14 REB)

Still working on the realism settings for my files... the accuracy can't expect to be 100% all the time, it should vary quite significantly but I'm expecting improvements.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby dwayne2005 on Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:57 pm

While watching movies, I am simulating games (computer vs computer, Superstar difficulty) using my .dbf's and trying to get my spreadsheet just right. I've made two amendments.

--

Leading scorers: Prince (24), Duncan (20), Billups (18), Ginobili (17), Nestorovic (16), Brown (13), R. Wallace (12), Hamilton (11), B. Wallace (9), Bowen (9), Hunter (9), Delfino (9).
Team stats (DET-SA): PTS (101-90), (FG% (49%-46%), 3PT% (60%-18%), FT% (90%-67%), REB (40-26 ... largely to do with SA's blocks resulting in fewer defensive boards and then coupled with a greater shooting percentage by DET), BLK (8-17), STL (1-7)


A LOT depends on the randomisations in the game. In one game, a team shot 60% for 48 minutes then 42% the next with identical settings. In lesser leagues, you might expect players to get their real highs game in/game out, but in the NBA there's usually at least one surprising player and players will vary quite significantly every now and then.

I'm going to minimize the block ratings in the .dbf and see what kind of results I can calibrate.

Okay, blocks will be much better but despite this I will add an option on/off remove blocks from FG% calculations for greater refinement.

UPDATE: Fatigue solution is of marginal gain, if any. Good to see I can stick with what I've already got. Now not only are steals and block ratings penalized/benefited double, but FGA are minus blocks to calibrate precision FG shooting. Despite what has been done with block ratings (every player between 0-10, the realism setting now below 10) in Superstar mode I still got way too many blocks and they contributed to a certain number of missed rebound opportunities.

Latest game:

Points: Ginobili (21), Duncan (18), Hamilton (18), Parker (14), McDyess (14), R. Wallace (10)
Rebounds: Duncan (10), R. Wallace (8)
Assists: doesn't happen very often computer v. computer
Blocks: Duncan (8), Nesterovic (3)
Steals: Billups (4), R. Wallace (3), Ginobili (3)

Totals:
Points: 91 (San Antonio) - 87 (Detroit)
FG%: 50%-45% (missed rebound opportunities by slightly higher than average shooting)
FT%: 92%-67%
3PT%: (forget it, real low both teams, but it was a freak occurrence not the ratings)
Rebounds: 32-37
Assists: 7-8
Blocks: 7-12 (about 7/8 missed rebound opportunities beyond average)
Steals: 7-10
FGA rate: 103%
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby abdelkader on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:41 am

Hi there. I'm relatively new to NBA Live series. I know a bit about the sliders, how they work etc but I still have one important issue which needs explanation.

It concerns shooting sliders. I would like to have a perfect setting which would be a real life one - not in terms of the final results but in terms of shooting accuracy. In real life when you take a shot you think "I'll try, it may work out and I may score" . In NBA series, because ofthe sliders you think "I'll try, but it's not worth an effort. My sliders are at 35 so it's not likely for me to score". I think it really kills the enjoyment of the game. On the other hand if you set sliders at 50, your field goal percentage will be 50% so it means that if you scored 5 shots already, there's no point in taking another five - you will miss anyway. I heard that if my player has his scoring ability at e.g. 90, it's still possible to score a lot even with 35 slider setting, but it seems not to be completely true, as I miss a lot even with NBA top players. I hate the feeling that even playing with some top team I may lose to underdogs because of the sliders.

Is it really this way? I'd like to have a real-life feeling that it's ONLY up to me whether I score or not. Can you come up with realistic shooting sliders?
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby Andrew on Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:50 am

A slider setting of 50 does not equal 50% shooting in the game. If you're finding that a rating of 35 is too low you might want to up it a little but you can still feasibly shoot less than 50% from the field with a slider setting of 50.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby abdelkader on Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:14 pm

I see. I'll increase the sliders. There's nothing else I can do, can I? :) Thanks for the reply.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby Andrew on Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:44 pm

You can try switching Shot Control to CPU but then that takes a lot of control out of your hands so I wouldn't really advise it. I think playing around with the sliders is your best bet, that's what they're there for. :)
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby abdelkader on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:58 pm

I'll do it. Up to this point I played with CPU shot on. I'll switch it off and check it out then. Pity that the programmers didn't come up with an option which would switch sliders off which would make the result of the game dependent strictly upon the abilities of the players, as it was in the vintage NBA Live games. Personally, I don't find the idea of sliders a good one anyway. It's just like telling your friends from the playground "Hey guys, you mustn't score so many points because I want to beat you". Everytime I play the game after messing with the sliders I can't stop the feeling that my victory depends only on the algorithm. I'll have to cope with it, there's no other way :) Thanks for help.

i've just re-installed my NBA 2000 :) My God...good, old days :P
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby Andrew on Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:36 pm

Well...selecting the default sliders kind of has that effect. Sliders are an important aspect of the game as they allow us to tailor the gameplay to suit our needs and desires. They're also handy for anyone looking to up the challenge as you can give the CPU an unfair advantage and battle against it (and there certainly are people who ask for a greater challenge than Superstar difficulty provides by default). Having that level of customisation in a game is a must, in my opinion.

Besides, it still comes down to ratings at the end of the day. A player with a three point rating of 90 could be made to shoot 8/8 from downtown with long range field goal sliders of 35 or 55...the slider being set to 35 is just going to make it more difficult, with a smaller margin for error.
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Re: Realistic Sliders Thread (All Slider Discussions Here!)

Postby abdelkader on Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:13 pm

Yeah, I understand it all now. Initially I thought that sliders stand for a rigid field goal percentage which, when combined with the abilities of the players, create his scoring abilities. Only now did I understand that sliders only make things easier or harder while my scoring opportunities remain the same.


I appreciate the necessity of having sliders in the game but I only think they should be improved...I'm not criticizing the programmers as I think it's the best they could do. What it all needs is improvement. Maybe one day they will come up with something pretty realistic.


I have come up with a kind of idea for solving this. This would definitely kill the fluency of the game, as taking every shot would be a 5 or 6 second long procedure, but would provide quite an accurate way of scoring. What I mean is that every shot should be taken in the way free throws are taken in NBA Live series. There would be a cross and two balls going up and down and from left to right. The thing would be to stop the balls exactly in the center of the cross to make a successful shot - as in free throws. Of course the speed of travelling balls would be dependent on the distance from the basket and the abilities of the player. I know it will never see the daylight as, as I said, it would kill the fluency of the game.

However, this could be an option which could be switched on/off and everyone would have the possibility to choose, either to take shots in this way, or in the usual, fluent way.
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