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Map of the dunking genome

Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:38 am

I'm kind of a new guy here, and as I mentioned in the General Issues board I am half-hartedly making a roster patch of each team's best effort from the past twenty-or-so years. As I want the players to be as accurate as possible, one of the things I wanted to do was to map out, or define what each of the dunk packages in the roster.dbf were.

To do this I created 16 players, all of them exactly the same in height, weight, and ratings. The only difference was their dunk package. I then took each player onto the practice court and did nothing but dunk from any angle i could think of, taking notes of what kind of dunks they took and how far they could dunk from.

Some things I noticed that departed from common assumption were; 1) any player with the package #12 or #16 can dunk from just inside the free throw line, no matter what his height, dunk or jump rating. 2) Bigger numbers do not mean bigger, better, or more dunks.

Now then, without further adu, here are your NBA Live dunk packages.

#1) Layups, nothing but layups.

#2) More layups.
If your player has jumping/dunk ratings of 79 or lower, these will be less fancy with less switching between hands.
Ratings of 80 or above seems to reverse packages #1 and #2.

#3) All the same layups as the first two, only you can't take off from any farther than 5 feet.

#4) All of the above layups, with some dunking.
With ratings of 79 or lower you can dunk only while facing the basket, without moving, from about two feet. This is a simple two-hand flush, and looks better suited for big men rather than guards that can barely reach the rim.
With ratings 80 or above you gain a two-hand flush while running.
Overall this seems to be the token-big-dumb-white-guy package.

#5) The Sir Charles signature collection. Two-hand power dunks, with a maximum range of about 5 or 6 feet. All of which look like Charles Barkley's Phoenix Suns era dunks.
This package also has a variety of layups under the basket not included in previous packages.
Under certain conditions, the player will execute a perfect skyhook. If any budding programmers out there can figure out how to replace the current baby-jump hook with this animation, thanks in advance.

#6) A hodge-podge of one and two-hand dunks, powerful and graceful. A shorter range than before, 4-5 feet. Also players will do wrap around dunks rather than layups when under the basket.

#7) Two-handed dunks inside of 4-5 feet, layups out to around 10 feet.

#7.5) Can't sleep, clowns will eat me.

#8) Some one and two-handed dunks, but mostly spining and reverse dunks. Range of about 5-6 feet, nothing out side of this.

#9) Same dunks as #8, but this adds layups out to 10 feet.

#10) The nastiest, rimhanging, two-hand power dunks in the game. If you want to liven up Shaq, are making a young chunky Larry Johnson, or an even younger thin Shawn Kemp, this is the package.
Outside of 6 feet the player will do a hard one-hand tamahawk, between 8 and 12 feet are layups.

#11) The 'Nique Wilkins signature pack. Rotating two-handers and windmills inside, tamahawks further out, and layups at extreme range.

#12) The Glide Drexler Signature. Mixture of smooth one and two-hand dunks, including the free throw dunk.

#13) Patrick Ewing Signature. Mostly reverse dunks inside, with layups between 6 and 10 feet. There is no free throw dunk in this package.

#14) same dunks as #13.
Not only can you not do the free throw dunk, there is nothing outside of 6 feet. I mean, no layups, nothing. So much for the higher number, better or more dunks theory. :roll:

#15) The Dream Olajawon Signature. One and two-hand big man dunks, maximum range of 7-8 feet.

#16) The Doctor J/Air Jordan Signature. All dunks are based on those that one or the other performed. Freethrow, scoop dunks, around the world, spins, statue of liberty, Nike logo, it's all here.
If the between the legs dunk exsists, it's in this package.

Comming soon to this forum: "Know Your Scoring Area"
And "You Want Realistic Stats From Your Ratings, Then Use Real Stats To Make Your Ratings. A Long Boring Journey In Mathamatics In Four Parts" AKA "The Stat=Ratings Posts".

Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:59 am

great summary!

another way of identifying the different dunks is to see what EA assigned to actual players.

Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:27 am

To some degree you can just go by what the programmers used. #s 5, 11, and 13 aren't used as far as I remember, and most of the least athletic big men still have #15 or something else that doesn't suit them.

Play a game with legends Larry Bird and Domanique Wilkins, then play again with their dunk packages switched to 4 ond 11 respectively. It does make a big difference.

Re: Map of the dunking genome

Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:54 am

OldFoolStyle wrote:I'm kind of a new guy here, and as I mentioned in the General Issues board I am half-hartedly making a roster patch of each team's best effort from the past twenty-or-so years. As I want the players to be as accurate as possible, one of the things I wanted to do was to map out, or define what each of the dunk packages in the roster.dbf were.

To do this I created 16 players, all of them exactly the same in height, weight, and ratings. The only difference was their dunk package. I then took each player onto the practice court and did nothing but dunk from any angle i could think of, taking notes of what kind of dunks they took and how far they could dunk from.

Some things I noticed that departed from common assumption were; 1) any player with the package #12 or #16 can dunk from just inside the free throw line, no matter what his height, dunk or jump rating. 2) Bigger numbers do not mean bigger, better, or more dunks.

Now then, without further adu, here are your NBA Live dunk packages.

#1) Layups, nothing but layups.

#2) More layups.
If your player has jumping/dunk ratings of 79 or lower, these will be less fancy with less switching between hands.
Ratings of 80 or above seems to reverse packages #1 and #2.

#3) All the same layups as the first two, only you can't take off from any farther than 5 feet.

#4) All of the above layups, with some dunking.
With ratings of 79 or lower you can dunk only while facing the basket, without moving, from about two feet. This is a simple two-hand flush, and looks better suited for big men rather than guards that can barely reach the rim.
With ratings 80 or above you gain a two-hand flush while running.
Overall this seems to be the token-big-dumb-white-guy package.

#5) The Sir Charles signature collection. Two-hand power dunks, with a maximum range of about 5 or 6 feet. All of which look like Charles Barkley's Phoenix Suns era dunks.
This package also has a variety of layups under the basket not included in previous packages.
Under certain conditions, the player will execute a perfect skyhook. If any budding programmers out there can figure out how to replace the current baby-jump hook with this animation, thanks in advance.

#6) A hodge-podge of one and two-hand dunks, powerful and graceful. A shorter range than before, 4-5 feet. Also players will do wrap around dunks rather than layups when under the basket.

#7) Two-handed dunks inside of 4-5 feet, layups out to around 10 feet.

#7.5) Can't sleep, clowns will eat me.

#8) Some one and two-handed dunks, but mostly spining and reverse dunks. Range of about 5-6 feet, nothing out side of this.

#9) Same dunks as #8, but this adds layups out to 10 feet.

#10) The nastiest, rimhanging, two-hand power dunks in the game. If you want to liven up Shaq, are making a young chunky Larry Johnson, or an even younger thin Shawn Kemp, this is the package.
Outside of 6 feet the player will do a hard one-hand tamahawk, between 8 and 12 feet are layups.

#11) The 'Nique Wilkins signature pack. Rotating two-handers and windmills inside, tamahawks further out, and layups at extreme range.

#12) The Glide Drexler Signature. Mixture of smooth one and two-hand dunks, including the free throw dunk.

#13) Patrick Ewing Signature. Mostly reverse dunks inside, with layups between 6 and 10 feet. There is no free throw dunk in this package.

#14) same dunks as #13.
Not only can you not do the free throw dunk, there is nothing outside of 6 feet. I mean, no layups, nothing. So much for the higher number, better or more dunks theory. :roll:

#15) The Dream Olajawon Signature. One and two-hand big man dunks, maximum range of 7-8 feet.

#16) The Doctor J/Air Jordan Signature. All dunks are based on those that one or the other performed. Freethrow, scoop dunks, around the world, spins, statue of liberty, Nike logo, it's all here.
If the between the legs dunk exsists, it's in this package.

Comming soon to this forum: "Know Your Scoring Area"
And "You Want Realistic Stats From Your Ratings, Then Use Real Stats To Make Your Ratings. A Long Boring Journey In Mathamatics In Four Parts" AKA "The Stat=Ratings Posts".


dang.. ths is im waiting for.. tnx bro...

Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:38 am

That is just incredible
Great work .. absolutely great.
Thx for the info

Sat Mar 08, 2003 4:18 am

EXCELLENT simply EXCELLENT WORK :D

Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:03 am

wow. i was working on a list like this....but i think yours is much better so i wont release mine :oops: great job!!

Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:11 am

Pierce_34, there's always room for more detail, this is just starting to open up.

Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:16 am

Great work OldFoolStyle. Would you be willing to allow me to use it in the NLSC Live 2003 players.dbf guide?

As for scoring area, it's been done for previous games, though it might have been changed for Live 2003:

http://www.sportplanet.com/nbalive/nba2001/scorearea.shtml

nice

Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:45 am

great job,
i just wonder one thing, does anyone know where the dunkpackages 'contest' is? i meen where is there where it sais in what dunkpackage the diferent dunks is? if someone know, you shuld be able to make custom dunkpackages which you can add your favourite moves to.

And one more thing by the way; can someone explain the 'careerpackage', 'celebpack' and also the 'envelope' funktions to me?
tnx.

Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:01 am

And one more thing by the way; can someone explain the 'careerpackage', 'celebpack' and also the 'envelope' funktions to me?


Im dont know about the envelope function, but the careerpackage is used to determine how the players career will progress, players like J- Rich have a higer letter such as A or B because they seem to develope to a high rate than other players. Im not sure on celebpack but most of the players with a higer celebpack ( i cant remember what it is measured with) seem to be all stars or getting close anyway. This must have to develope with the players because some players that u never would have thought to be all stars occasionly turn out to be one in like the season of 2010 - 2011 etc.

Dont rely on this thoery though because it is just my thoughts.

Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:07 am

well i always thought that CELEBPACK was their "celebration package", like when after they score. Players that have the "hyped" expression usually have CELEBPACK 2 or so, and laid back players usually have 0. i could be wrong, but im just guessing.

Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:32 am

Andrew, go right ahead. I posted it to get it out to any one that want's it.
I also checked out the scoring area, man I need to test that. Going by who had what, I had a completly different idea of what they were(ie 3=left block, 4= right block). Now i have to figure out how to miss shots in practice mode, having all 50's won't even help.

Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:59 pm

Thanks, I'll put the info to good use. :)

As I said, that information I have about the scoring area is based on previous NBA Lives, so it may not apply to Live 2003. After all, the dunk package system is different (NBA Live 98-NBA Live 2001 featured 6 as the highest dunk package) so the scoring area could be different as well. I'm pretty sure it still refers to the player's hot spots/preferred offensive style.

Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:35 pm

:shock:

nice, just nice!

:D

and how long did it take you, with all the creating and testing???

:cool:

EDIT: just an idea - freethrow rituals :!:

Sun Mar 09, 2003 8:18 pm

The current theory is that the FTRITUAL field is not utilised in NBA Live 2003.

Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:06 pm

Andrew wrote:The current theory is that the FTRITUAL field is not utilised in NBA Live 2003.


:o

really??? well, too bad...

so he's going to do the scoring area next - it's like 10 different values
that's a lot of work, a lot of free time???


Image

Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:34 am

It's already been said, but I just saw this post for the first time, so here goes:

THANK YOU

Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:42 am

thank you too..

this information is great and very helpful :cool:

Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:15 am

oh yeah, i forgot to mention, you're cracking me up with the 'can't sleep, clowns will eat me' and the dunking genome and all that stuff. lol, lmao even. actually rotflmao.

ebonics is all well and good, but its nice to see some humor every now and again, too.

Re: Map of the dunking genome

Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:02 pm

OldFoolStyle wrote:Comming soon to this forum: "Know Your Scoring Area"
And "You Want Realistic Stats From Your Ratings, Then Use Real Stats To Make Your Ratings. A Long Boring Journey In Mathamatics In Four Parts" AKA "The Stat=Ratings Posts".


Cant wait for your findings regarding these topics :D

Thanks again for the info on the dunkpkg and thanks in advance with regard to all the other topics to come. Keep it up dude :cool:

Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:09 pm

thanks for the info!

Scoring Area - revisited

Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:15 am

Hey guys,

I did the original scoring area post for NBA Live 2K (I'm still a 2K diehard, but 2K4 may bring me around....) Anyway, the way I looked at it was by using a database editor, specifically "cdbf for Windows" - a great program if you don't have, or want something more than, the toolkits.

I multi-sorted the list of players by highest overall ratings, scoring area, and position. That way, I had most of the legends and top-rated players we all know and love, sorted by area and position, so I could see which area corresponded to whom and how they score. It's not really difficult, you just need a firm grasp of database manipulation. You can use Microsoft Access or Excel as well... just work with copies of your original dBf files. :wink:

Best of luck! I don't post often, but if you have a question, I'll be notified by the NLSC if you post one, or you can e-mail me directly.

Play on!

- TWSmith (Tim)
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