New Dimension 2003 Gary Payton v.1 by Travis Lee

[em]

Nice GP and by the way, WORD STUD!

yes thank you. at least there are still some people that do agree with what is right

listen up "big stud"...

I don't see what's so wrong about me posting that ray allen patch.which i thought was really good...lee's Gp is ok...but EA's is better..if 9mm feels like critisizing travis' gp..he can do it...atleast i think there's freedom of speech on this board...

Last edited by KingAlex on Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[hotshot_963]

Alright let's stop this, shall we?

[Bill Russell]

Cool down peeps...

[em]

listen up "big stud"...

I don't see what's so wrong about me posting that ray allen patch.which i thought was really good...lee's Gp is ok...but EA's is better..if 9mm feels like critisizing travis' gp..he can do it...atleast i think there's freedom of speech on this board...

u and 9mm alwayz seem to have the same taste for some reason..its all good tho. ur right about posting up that ray allen patch, just it isnt "perfect" imo. lotta people would agree that it aint "perfect" too. i posted it up because i said u 2 only appreciate work from Tony, Alex and nbalive.org..ANYTHING out of that.."it sucks", "not better than dev or Tony"..

[Tony]

Who the "uk" guy is, or why you're putting my name next to his, I have no idea. But:

well Andrew and the mods should really start doing sumthing about all this. if the rules are set out for everybody to be equal and all, he should follow what he sets out and not ignore it all the time..which means u guys will be gone and should be gone for good..

I haven't violated a single guideline fella, I have posted my opinion on patches, and it is my right to do so if I wish.

muahaha..oh really? well search ALL u want to buddy boy, the only reason for my misbehavior was because of guys like u who want nothing more than to start off flamewars and pick on people. all u ever do is criticize peoples patches..anything done other then Tony or people at nbalive.org suck or is no where near perfection..just look at this..

No, entirely not true. I could do some digging up, but the fact is, you picked dormant ancient threads to rise them up for the entire sake of evoking a new flamewar, which by itself is a rule violation, and you should've been gone long ago. And if you do a check around the board a little, I am not always giving negative comments to what mr. Travis Lee does, actually I liked quite a few of his patches, and I have made sure I post my true opinion on them too. Check your facts before posting ignorant crap.

whining or not..what i want is integrity and honesty, nlsc is a place for people to post up patches and talk about nba live as long as the rules are followed..

Yes, and if a differing opinion is posted, it also isn't a rule violation, the last time I checked... I just posted I liked Tony's patch more than this one, take a chill pill. Nothing worth getting so worked up over something...

all u do is bring up nonsense stuff just to start a fight or flamewar..yes constructive criticize or whatever u put it might be a good thing but it is not welcome to some/most people..

Yes, negative and constructive criticism is good for the author of the patch himself, if he only gets positive feedback, he would never know what he could improve in his work, right? So I would say it should be more than welcome.

the guy bodybump post up some new stuff travis has released on his own, trav didnt once ask him to post it on here if i remember correctly..and i dont think anyone nor trav would appreciate u and uk always putting his work down.

Why are you so petty about negative comments? Are you Travis? Why are you getting so worked up over all of this?

im just standing up for what is right and here u guys say that im wrong and ur alwayz right..

Where did I say I am always right? For Christs sakes man, just drop it.


I wish to take no part in this discussion anymore. Big stud, lie down, cool down, and drop this insignificant issue. Please.

[em]

Who the "uk" guy is, or why you're putting my name next to his, I have no idea. But:

i'm sure u knw him quite well..u two are buddies and everyone knws that..

I haven't violated a single guideline fella, I have posted my opinion on patches, and it is my right to do so if I wish.

ok so if u havent violated a rule..heres sumthing u should consider..

From: TravisLee324@aol.com | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2003 23:16:38 EST
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: big_stud12585@yahoo.com




Eric,

Well you can tell both of them that I don't care what they think. Their comments are NOT welcomed because everybody knows no matter how good the patch I put out, I will still get a bad comment so why bother? So you go ahead and tell them that they don't have to waste their time to check my patch screenshots and "criticize" them. If they do however, it's their problem because I didn't ask them to. They're not welcomed like I said, later.

Travis

No, entirely not true. I could do some digging up, but the fact is, you picked dormant ancient threads to rise them up for the entire sake of evoking a new flamewar, which by itself is a rule violation, and you should've been gone long ago. And if you do a check around the board a little, I am not always giving negative comments to what mr. Travis Lee does, actually I liked quite a few of his patches, and I have made sure I post my true opinion on them too. Check your facts before posting ignorant crap.

i dig up ancient threads? hahaha..ur funny pal. "ancient" threads as u call it IS fact of what i'm trying to say. yes it is evoking a new flamewar BUT none of it wouldve came up if people kept their mouths shut. what u and uk have been doing is trying to start a new flamewar. u guyz should be aware that it will lead to something bad and start up a flamewar so why start it? so just because of that fact, u should keep ur mouths shut. if u dont..that IS leading to a flamewar like it has with this thread..and is a rule violation my friend..and Andrew should act on that from now on..

Yes, and if a differing opinion is posted, it also isn't a rule violation, the last time I checked... I just posted I liked Tony's patch more than this one, take a chill pill. Nothing worth getting so worked up over something...

true to a point..but whens the last time u said travis's patch is perfect or in all a good patch? none, i cant remember when that has happen right? i mean i have witness all of what u and uk have posted up in the past ffew weeks and even tho the patch looks great to us, they never look good to u or him. and im not the only one..

What in the world is your prob man? Every time Trav comes up with a nice patch, all you do is criticise it like hell. Why don't you just appreciate his work? If you're not skilled enough to make patches like these, I would suggest that you shut that stinkin trap of yours!

Yes, negative and constructive criticism is good for the author of the patch himself, if he only gets positive feedback, he would never know what he could improve in his work, right? So I would say it should be more than welcome.

theyre good to a point BUT look at ur past few posts..have i mentioned u never give the guys at nbalive.org a bad comment or negative feedback? yeah i think so..so does that mean all their patches are "perfect" and dont need any improvements? as when travis release sumthing good like this GP patch u say u like EAs better and Tonys better..so whats ur problem? I really do think this GP of his looks just like GP himself and if u look at what the first 4 posters about this patch were good ones except urs..

Why are you so petty about negative comments? Are you Travis? Why are you getting so worked up over all of this?

why am i? is it wrong for me to stand up for someone whos making great patches and to be diss every single time?

Where did I say I am always right? For Christs sakes man, just drop it.

u post up ur "true opinion" on his patches making people believe that everything u say is right..

I wish to take no part in this discussion anymore. Big stud, lie down, cool down, and drop this insignificant issue. Please.

but of course u'll be here again..

Who the "uk" guy is, or why you're putting my name next to his, I have no idea. But:

i'm sure u knw him quite well..u two are buddies and everyone knws that..

i wonder what the hell you're talking about...

[em]

i wonder what the hell you're talking about...

i do too..

[Wall St. Peon]

He said EA's was better and Tony's was better...those are both opinions which mean they are his to have. He wasn't degrading or flaming anyone at all, nor was he saying Travis' patch sucked; he was simply saying he liked Tony's and EA's better.

Sheesh...

Oh, and for those of you who haven't been around, Travis Lee has never been able to take any sort of criticism, constructive or otherwise, and that's why he doesn't announce his patches on the NLSC...he's been that way since he started patching for Live 98, I think...

*I'm saying that so people disregard that email posting

[em]

He said EA's was better and Tony's was better...those are both opinions which mean they are his to have. He wasn't degrading or flaming anyone at all, nor was he saying Travis' patch sucked; he was simply saying he liked Tony's and EA's better.

Sheesh...

he said EAs is better and Tony's was better than EA..so that means what? Trav's is last? I think so..but this isnt the point Enahs Live..the point IS he puts down all of Trav's patches..take a look at the past comments on his other patches..as for this patch, i dont see anything wrong with this patch and it looks better than EAs and Tony's (imo ofcourse..)..take a look..

Tony's

the real GP

doesnt Tony's look a little yellowish, green..?? so whats wrong with Travs?

Oh, and for those of you who haven't been around, Travis Lee has never been able to take any sort of criticism, constructive or otherwise, and that's why he doesn't announce his patches on the NLSC...he's been that way since he started patching for Live 98, I think...

*I'm saying that so people disregard that email posting

how do u knw that its true that because of that he doesnt post on here anymore? u dont knw the guy more than he knws himself so dont speak when u dont knw what the true reason behind it my friend..let me ask u a question..why disregard the email post when it is true? its true facts from the guy..all he said was he doesnt welcome comments from thos two guys because he knws what they think of his patches so that they dont have to waste their time on commenting it..dont see anything wrong with that is it??

[sq322]

In the immortal words of Derrick Coleman
"Whoopdie Damn Do" to all of you folks
or perhaps a que from Happy Gilmour
"How bout a nice warm glass of SHUT THE HELL UP"
(uh - oh) maybe im about to get banned
Seriously
The community at large here is built for people to come in post their work, for folks to download it, comment on it.
Criticism has to be dealt with b/c if you are gonna post..people are gonna have opinions on it..no matter what.
The mass of us appreciate the ability to download other peoples work and enhance the game
So thanks to all of you for all you do.
If those who post cant take the criticism..why bother posting?
If the criticism is done properly all it is a suggestion from another perspective.
As long as it stays in the realm of being nice and not all the posturing done in here.
This one is better than that one...blah blah...blah..
If you dont like the work , DONT DOWNLOAD IT
simple
make your critcism constructive not DESTRUCTIVE
Leave your personal issues or vendettas at the door and just sit back and relax !!!

Show some love in here fellas....Stop spewing the hate.

[hetoft]

STOP THE WAR, GUYS! Do you both want to get banned?
Remember what happened to Tony and Alex?

[em]

good point sq322..i agree with u on all that, just when this comes a long..

9mm
It looks kinda weird to me... I don't like the way the cheeks and the nose are so light... and the mouth...

i mean that is ok because it is his opinion..then this..

he looks like he has sifilis...

whats up with that? taking cheap shots at the end?

[sq322]

I think sometimes we all read a little too much into what is written
Was that a knock on the patcher ?? I dont think so
It was more like a descriptor of what he was seeing
Kinda metaphorical in a sense.

But maybe thats just me

[RZArectah]

Travis' GP patch is near perfection, admit it haters. Tony's is excellent as well, but I think Travis' is even better. Why do u care who made the patch when deciding whether the patch is good or not? That's d***riding to me. I don't care who made the patch, if it's good it's good, if it's crap it's crap. Travis, Tony, Alex or Dev's (and many others' too) patches rarely are crap, so stop hating and recognize the talent of all those guys.

How old is everyone up in here anyway? I'm a grown-ass man (23) and I don't see why anyone wants to waste their time with some stupid internet beefs. Enjoy the game everyone and stop this nonsense!

[benji]

so whats ur problem? I really do think this GP of his looks just like GP himself and if u look at what the first 4 posters about this patch were good ones except urs..

You're the one with the problem, people can have different opinions. 9mm's was different from the first four and he posted it, then you attacked him for it.

u post up ur "true opinion" on his patches making people believe that everything u say is right..

If he can't post his opinion, then you can't post yours and no one else can, so anyone who likes these patches shouldn't be posting their opinions, just like anyone who doesn't like them.

You also continue to lump us nbalive.org workers into one group like we all support each other regardless of actual quality. I, for one, think Travis' is better. We have many disagreements in the staff about many things including the quality of patches. There are only two people on here that are part of nbalive.org, Dan Gadzuric and myself. We almost never comment on patches (before you speak, I commented on the ref patch because everyone was excited about something and I didn't understand why everyone thought it was so great). I don't comment because I feel it's mainly useless, especially useless to just say "great" and since people like yourself attack me and others if we don't like something it makes that somewhat unpleasant. Consider that next time you jump to conclusions or jump to attack, or as you view it, defend.

Since Travis reads this forum...I'll get around to what we talked about soon.

[em]

You're the one with the problem, people can have different opinions. 9mm's was different from the first four and he posted it, then you attacked him for it.

yes i understnd u and i agree with that part..it wasnt just because he posted and i attacked him but i attacked him because he and his friend uk have been doing this for the past few weeks whenever there is a patch posted up by bodybump on Travis' patches. heres all the things i've gathered up when he decides to comment..

Well, once you mentioned it... I like EA's GP better than this one... and Tony's GP better than EA's...

And as for Tsakalidis, whats the difference? Only the cheeks seem to be messed up...

It looks kinda weird to me... I don't like the way the cheeks and the nose are so light... and the mouth... he looks like he has sifilis...

Too close to Dev's... not really original IMO... it would've been better if Trav had actually made his own cornrows...

EA's is way better imo... atleast it marginally looks like him, unlike this one.

Wow... a McGrady patch, someone finally made it!

as u can see..none of them were good comments..if they were, theres always a bad one right after it..this is like a pattern in which i wouldnt have commented IF 9mm and uk appreciate the mans work at least instead of pointing out the very least details of a patch from the guys cheek bone or forehead and crap..look at the thread name "- ray allen patch-"..see how uk adds in..

on a side note:
http://www.nbalive.org/alex_ray_allen_screen.jpg

looks perfect to me...

u sure know that it aint that "perfect" uk..

You also continue to lump us nbalive.org workers into one group like we all support each other regardless of actual quality.

well it just seems like everyone in that group alwayz get good comments all around..like everything is "perfect" which u know nothing is "perfect"..

[Wall St. Peon]

how do u knw that its true that because of that he doesnt post on here anymore?

Because he said before he left (basically) that "I'm not gonna post on here because people are criticizing everything I do."

u dont knw the guy more than he knws himself so dont speak when u dont knw what the true reason behind it my friend..

But I do know the true reason...or at least what he told the public.

let me ask u a question..why disregard the email post when it is true? its true facts from the guy..all he said was he doesnt welcome comments from thos two guys because he knws what they think of his patches so that they dont have to waste their time on commenting it..dont see anything wrong with that is it??

No, Travis doesn't welcome any negative comments on his patches. Period. I know that from experience; if someone gives him constructive criticism, he'd up and say he quit. He only wants praise...there's nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit arrogant. In my opinion, he doesn't post on this board because he doesn't want his ego bruised...especially after that whole lying thing...

What I've noticed on this site is that the only comments can be positive. I'm a patcher, and I want negative comments, no matter how harsh. Sure, it bruises the ego, but it makes it better. If I don't like what they say, I ignore it...it's not a big deal, really, I still patch (when I have time). Most patchers are that way, but then there's the hardcore fans who completely are offended when the actual patcher isn't...it's utterly silly.

[em]

Because he said before he left (basically) that "I'm not gonna post on here because people are criticizing everything I do."

i dont knw about that..

No, Travis doesn't welcome any negative comments on his patches. Period. I know that from experience; if someone gives him constructive criticism, he'd up and say he quit. He only wants praise...there's nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit arrogant. In my opinion, he doesn't post on this board because he doesn't want his ego bruised...especially after that whole lying thing...

i think hes got plenty of those when he first came in, i think all the patchers did..when u say "he'd up and say he quit."..i think hes doing just fine right now without anyone bothering him..or at least up till now people want to start up all the crap again..no Enahs Live..i talk to him once and he said he doesnt post on here anymore because he thinks people here treats him like crap (or sumthing like that.. ) and it shows why..this is why he wont post here or anywhere else..

about constructive criticism and critcizing patchers work..i read in the live issues that sumone wanted to add a patcher award of the month thihg..here are just a few things i want to point out to u people..

Hmm...I don't like the idea...it can be too degrading to patchers who work hard and aren't voted...

the one who is not chosen could feel bad and might lose interest of keep trying, something we don't want.

I'd like to add that there have been patcher rankings/lists before, some people have set up sites in the past that rated patchers and whatnot. They caused more problems than made patchers feel appreciated, so it's not an idea I'm willing to implement.

so with that..dont u think criticism can lead to "degrading" and putting patchers (mostly newbies like me..) down because people just love to put someones patch down?..

[Bill Russell]

Chill down guys... It's just a fuckin' patch for a fuckin' game... Geez.

[Wall St. Peon]

i dont knw about that..

But I DO know this for a fact. That was his reason for leaving.

i think hes got plenty of those when he first came in,

No, he didn't. All he got was praise because there were only three or so patchers and he released a patch nearly every day and emailed them to people; everyone loved them. He WAS the best patcher that visited the NLSC at the time, and then more people started to make patches and he just became an average patcher in comparison to others who made unreal patches. He didn't get anything negative said about his patches until the last couple of years.

i think all the patchers did..when u say "he'd up and say he quit."..i think hes doing just fine right now without anyone bothering him

Someone would say "You should use so and so's headshape" or "Your website is hard to get through" or "You should lighten his skin" or "You should close the mouth a bit better" and so on...that's constructive criticism, no?...and Travis would be incredibly offended. He 'retired' from patching several times, and this was generally the reason he gave.

..or at least up till now people want to start up all the crap again and it shows why..this is why he wont post here or anywhere else..

I'm not trying to start all that crap again; someone said they didn't like the patch, and you're going off on them for no real reason. Big whoop, they didn't like the patch, so what? They weren't criticizing travis himself, or you even...so what's the point of arguing?

..no Enahs Live..i talk to him once and he said he doesnt post on here anymore because he thinks people here treats him like crap (or sumthing like that.. )

You talked to him ONCE, and you're not even sure of what he said or meant. I've talked to him a number of times, through emails, back in the day when I had respect for him, and then I've seen him post and the way he's reacted to criticism. Of course he's not going to say what I've said about him! The people treat him like crap because he lied about a bunch of things and had multiple accounts on the board to praise his own work, and also they gave him crap because he's supposed to be 21-22 years old and he's dating a 14 year old from florida over the internet. People lost a lot of respect for stuff like that...so yeah...that's the deal with the board. He didn't want to deal with people, and that's understandable, but at the same time, that's his own fault.

about constructive criticism and critcizing patchers work..i read in the live issues that sumone wanted to add a patcher award of the month thihg..here are just a few things i want to point out to u people..

Funny you mention the patcher awards...Travis won one of those and it cause problems. Why? Not because he won it, but because he brought it up two years later in a profile. "I've won a few awards as the best patcher blah blah blah" and it came off as arrogant as hell and just plain...annoying. It was like Travis took patchin so seriously that it was his life. I patch for fun and I do it when I have time...to take it that seriously? I got a few votes for that particular award, and it was cool, but I could have cared less if I had won it. It's like having a poem published in a book by poetry.com...nice, but big whoop...

so with that..dont u think criticism can lead to "degrading" and putting patchers (mostly newbies like me..) down because people just love to put someones patch down?..

Patch awards are pointless. They create animosities such as this, especially when someone lets something so pointless get to their head. However, constructive criticism can lead to improvement in patches which helps everyone. Tony and Alex and Jowe and Nick and Steve (kind of, when we were partners) have all given me constructive criticism that helped me to make better patches. When I show people my works of fiction, I tell them to rip it apart and tell me everything that doesn't make sense, everything that doesn't flow, everything that doesn't fit; why? Because that sort of criticism helps the work to be the best writing possible. If I ignore such criticism or let it bruise my ego, well, then I have a huge problem and I'll never reach my full potential as a writer, or, in this case, as a patcher.

The rivalries between fans of patches is silly as hell. Tony's v. Travis and so on...just stupid. I prefer Tony's patches because they're more complete, but I mix and match with practice gear and shoes and faces and what not to get combinations I like...and I know for a fact Tony could care less who likes his stuff and who doesn't...and Travis doesn't seem to care anymore, so why the rivalries between 'fans?' I mean, seriously, fans for patches for a game? Please.

The only reason I've posted in this topic is not to incite more flames or increase the length of the battle, it's to clear some apparent misconceptions about what criticism is (it's not all bad!), why Travis doesn't post, why he left, and so on. I could be wrong on those things, but I know what Travis posted before he left and I know how he acted in his...almost 6 years of patching...to make an adequate judgement as to why he left and why he doesn't want to post and why people don't like him.

Here's a tip: enjoy the patches, be grateful for the patches, be encouraging to the patchers, but give the right form of criticism. If a patch sucks, don't say 'the patch sucks,' say 'the nose is off and the mouth needs to be closed. Try Kerry Kittles headshape, and lighten the skin tone a bit. Also, the blending is too light, so you might want to darken it a bit." That criticism will encourage the patcher, not discourage them, which is what we're NOT going for, correct?

Andrew, lock the thread...

[BodyBump]

Here's a tip: enjoy the patches, be grateful for the patches, be encouraging to the patchers, but give the right form of criticism. If a patch sucks, don't say 'the patch sucks,' say 'the nose is off and the mouth needs to be closed. Try Kerry Kittles headshape, and lighten the skin tone a bit. Also, the blending is too light, so you might want to darken it a bit." That criticism will encourage the patcher, not discourage them, which is what we're NOT going for, correct?

Andrew, lock the thread...

i agree w/ u shane.. anywyz.. lets forgt abt this arguements.. lets just enjoy the game... peace!

[em]

But I DO know this for a fact. That was his reason for leaving.

well i dont think u could blame him for not posting..he is right when he says people criticize him for everything..just look at this thread and the old announcemnts..

Someone would say "You should use so and so's headshape" or "Your website is hard to get through" or "You should lighten his skin" or "You should close the mouth a bit better" and so on...that's constructive criticism, no?...

yes that is constructive criticism..

and Travis would be incredibly offended. He 'retired' from patching several times, and this was generally the reason he gave.

i remember back when Tony said sumthing about his site "sucked" and everything..i dont think tht was "constructive criticism" in any way shape or form..Tony also blasted Andrew with this new design on the nlsc too did he not? lets go back..

well... its ok... which usually = crap for a big site like this.
even my 7 year old cousin could have made something better. this took 3 months to make? god...

so u say thats "constructive criticism" too?? doesnt sound like it Enahs Live..

I'm not trying to start all that crap again; someone said they didn't like the patch, and you're going off on them for no real reason. Big whoop, they didn't like the patch, so what? They weren't criticizing travis himself, or you even...so what's the point of arguing?

u r in a way and i'll tell u why later..i also said i brought it up because i keep saying how 9mm and uk alwaysputs Travis' patch down no matter how good it looks..just like this GP patch which was "near perfection" sumone said earlier..

The people treat him like crap because he lied about a bunch of things and had multiple accounts on the board to praise his own work, and also they gave him crap because he's supposed to be 21-22 years old and he's dating a 14 year old from florida over the internet. People lost a lot of respect for stuff like that...so yeah...that's the deal with the board. He didn't want to deal with people, and that's understandable, but at the same time, that's his own fault.

so people and u treat him like crap because of sumthing he did in his personal life?? isnt it his personal life and not others or urs even? like why should u or i care what he does in his personal life? u hate sumone for what hes done on here and not sumthing he does in his personal life imo..what does that have to do wth things he does for the nlsc for "6 years" u say..? just look at what has transpired here..he didnt let people download any of his patches and did a "patch preview" site before..so what made him change his mind and let people download them now? hes still here making quality stuff for us..what i'm trying to say is its HIS patches, if the guy doesnt want someone commenting on his patches..just keep it to urself. he obviously didnt asked for his stuff on this board or announce here as he has said in his forum..he makes patches for people to use just like everybody else..if u dont like it dont download it and use it. i knw u said pple like to "criticize" patches in a constructive way but what if he likes it how it is and dont want to fix it? that should be his problem..if people think its not good, just dont download it and if he doesnt see whats wrong wth it..its either hes blind (no offense Travis) or he just dont feel like it..no matter what..its his stuff..his personal life and people should at least let him be..

Funny you mention the patcher awards...Travis won one of those and it cause problems. Why? Not because he won it, but because he brought it up two years later in a profile. "I've won a few awards as the best patcher blah blah blah" and it came off as arrogant as hell and just plain...annoying.

again u bring up his personal life..if he choose to do so, let him be..why bother with it?

Patch awards are pointless. They create animosities such as this

yes it is pointless.

When I show people my works of fiction, I tell them to rip it apart and tell me everything that doesn't make sense, everything that doesn't flow, everything that doesn't fit; why? Because that sort of criticism helps the work to be the best writing possible.

that is poems and written work and has nothing to do with what were talking here or patching for that matter..

I prefer Tony's patches because they're more complete, but I mix and match with practice gear and shoes and faces and what not to get combinations I like...

u say u prefer Tony's work and u dont respect anything from Travis and sure enough..ur patches contain his work if i'm correct..

[Nick]

Golly! a tit-full of patchers have made the tradee players!

I'm not going to say much except for: Oh my god, Big_stud is sooooo Travis Lee... ..i shall call you... 'Travis_Stud12585'

Anyway, back to the main topic...
Travis...i like this patch...better than Tony's imo...