Chicago Bulls Thread

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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:39 pm

air gordon wrote:the boys at draftexpress seem to know their stuff. euro talent gets overlooked? while we're generalizing, the knicks picked smokin frank. the kings a few years picked papi no longer in the league opoulus at #12.

the lavine situation is interesting. he didn't do enough (understandingly coming off the injury) to dispel the questions/knocks on his game. the bulls can and mostly likely match what he can get in the open market. still just 23yrs old

What, you consider Frank Ntilikina a bust already? Bit premature don't you think? Overlooked doesn't mean they don't get drafted, overlook means they are undervalued, underappreciated, and gets nowhere close to the amount of hype that American prospects get. If you don't think that's the case you obviously haven't been paying attention over the years. You wanna talk about busts like Papagiannis (13th pick, who, btw, is still in the league with the Blazers), how about these guys?

Dirk - 1998, 9th pick. Michael Olowokandi went first overall. Raef LaFrentz went third. Robert Traylor went 6th.
Parker - 2001, 28th pick. Kwame Brown went first overall. We picked Eddy Curry 4th.
Manu - 1999, 57th pick. Enough said
Pau - 2001, 3rd pick. (They picked Kwame Brown over this guy, are you kidding me.)
Giannis - 2013, 15th pick. Anthony fucking Bennett went first. Otto Porter, Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Ben McLemore, Trey fucking Burke, Shabazz Muhammad also went ahead of Giannis.
Porzingis - 2015, 4th pick. D'Angelo Russell and Jahili Okafor ahead of him, and the fans booed the shit out of him on draft night, media went ham on the Knicks afterwards.
Toni Kukoc - 1990, 29th pick. Literally all 28 picks ahead of him were American, and he had a better career than every one of them aside from Gary Payton.
Jokic - 2014, 41st pick. Top 5-10 were mostly decent picks but how did he fall to second round?
Rudy Gobert - 2013, 27th pick. Again, Anthony Bennett went first overall. Gobert was raw as hell but that height, length and athleticism should've gotten a look in late lottery/mid first round at least. If he was local he would've been picked up around 10-15 imo. Noel went 6th and he's raw as fuck too. Mason Plumlee went ahead of Gobert.
Serge Ibaka - 2008, 24th. Joe Alexander went 8th in this draft cause he could jump and dunk, but Ibaka went 24th with the same skillset. Anthony Randolph went 14th.

I mean, I can go on, but I think my point is made. There's always going to be busts, but the fact is that Euros get a bad knock cause of one or two notable busts and now everyone thinks it's riskier to pick them when in reality the success rate of drafting European talent is higher than drafting hyped up one and done players. How is Jimmer Fredette doing now? Thought he was supposedly this amazing college superstar? Not good right? Well that's what Trae Young is going to be. Michael Porter Jr? That's just a cheap Doug McDermott in the making. Even Ayton could just be another Okafor with his complete lack of defensive game and being trigger happy with jumpshots instead of abusing his size inside.

Re: LaVine. Unless he improves on defense, his ceiling is a good scorer off the bench and nothing more.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:33 am

Valor wrote:There's always going to be busts,

yes both american and overseas players. 1 and done, upperclassmen. no one is safe lol

Merely listing the picks that didn’t work out for each draft doesn’t make your point. I could easily do the same in the time period with overseas players when most of the nba teams actually had scouts overseas (ahem kukoc).

Honestly, i don’t pay attention to the hype. I’ll read a few articles, watch a few vids, listen to a few podcasts... All taken with a grain of salt. The hype train was definitely full a few years ago for that okafor draft class. Just ask jackal and novu.

Does smoking frank look like a better pick than donovan mitchell? Sorry knicks fans. papi poulos is still in the league? Right on my greek brother

The scouting story on giannis is a pretty cool one. Jonathan givony. Google it

And let’s be fair to the legend fredette. He was a 4yr college player, not some one and done hype.

Dragan tarlac, dailbor bagaric, kornell david, david kornell, viktor the crapper. Ooh now that’s a list.


Valor wrote:
Re: LaVine. Unless he improves on defense, his ceiling is a good scorer off the bench and nothing more.

what's the breakdown on this? in the few games i watched last yer when he was healthy, he did on several occasions lose track of his guy when he was off the ball.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu May 10, 2018 11:49 am

air gordon wrote:Merely listing the picks that didn’t work out for each draft doesn’t make your point. I could easily do the same in the time period with overseas players when most of the nba teams actually had scouts overseas (ahem kukoc).

Of course it doesn't make my point, they are called examples, to aid my argument, which was that European talents often get glossed over because they are not American.

air gordon wrote:Dragan tarlac, dailbor bagaric, kornell david, david kornell, viktor the crapper. Ooh now that’s a list.

Tarlac was a second round pick (by Krause, who was in over his head after hitting on Kukoc and always trying to send a message to MJ etc about how organisations win championships), you expect many hits there?
Similarly, Bagaric was another horrible Krause pick. He picked the brilliant Marcus Fizer with the 4th overall pick that year, not exactly a Euro is he?
Kornell David was signed not picked, another Krause move. Don't even know why he kept signing him, not important, and he wasn't exactly expected to be anything.

Your "list" is basically some dumb Krause moves when he fucked up the franchise to make his point to MJ, I don't see how that showcases the league not having a preference for hyping up local prospects and quickly dismissing any legit ones from Europe.

air gordon wrote:Does smoking frank look like a better pick than donovan mitchell?

No, but neither does Markelle Fultz, Jonathan Isaac, Malik Monk, or Luke Kennard. Mitchell went 13th, let's not pretend the Knicks picked Ntilikina first overall over Mitchell.

Jimmer may not have been a one-and-done, but he was definitely hyped up beyond measure. I only brought him up cause that's the comparison to Trae Young.

Names I've been seeing over and over again from Bulls fans everywhere include Michael Porter Jr (have you seen him play? Dougie McBuckets will shit on this guy), Trae Young (Jimmer 2.0), and Mo Bamba (Hasheem Thabeet). I don't understand, how the fuck are these guys considered better prospects? and I know you'll come back saying Bulls aren't projected to pick that high but.....I literally just saw an article on yahoo sports talking about how Bulls need to draft Bamba if they move up in the lottery into the top 5 range, and other outlets are talking about how Doncic not working out for teams due to Euroleague commitments is a concern. (Why? I rate winning a trophy against actual competition more than doing a pre-practised set of drills) :roll:

You're kidding yourself if you don't think there's a bias when evaluating prospects. Sure, scouts and GMs may have better knowledge nowadays (Not so sure about GarPax), but media and fans certainly have that bias.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri May 11, 2018 9:20 am

Hey valor
krause really screwed the pooch after MJ left huh? I don’t want to get too technical but if you’re going to include a 2nd round pick in Jokic, it’s fair game to include into the discussion whatever garbage kause brought in

Big frank played in europe, that’s why i’m bringing him up, not those other american players that went ahead of the american mitchell ;)

GarPax last year traded for the rights to the finnish born Markennan. Just saying

Makes sense to me for a team to want to work out a player they are investing a top pick in.

Of course the media and fans have a bias. sounds like you do too

as i mentioned before i haven't seen much of any of the nba prospects play. tbh i've seen more donic and lauri during the euro tournament last year. caught some of games from the ncaa tourney. that's about it so i can't fulfill your expectations on that one haha

So assuming the bulls don’t trade the farm for Doncic, who should they pick??
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Sat May 12, 2018 9:02 pm

air gordon wrote:Hey valor
krause really screwed the pooch after MJ left huh? I don’t want to get too technical but if you’re going to include a 2nd round pick in Jokic, it’s fair game to include into the discussion whatever garbage kause brought in

Those dark days in the early noughties were a painful memory.....

Fair enough, but I was including Jokic etc as examples of how legit European talents get glossed over and often falls down to the second round. Remember the Lakers? They opted to keep "Chinese Magic" (Laughable) Sun Yue over Marc Gasol in the Pau deal when I believe Memphis was asking for either one's draft rights. We all know how that turned out :lol:

I reckon it was different with the garbage from Krause, as he didn't spot hidden gems, but rather just tried hard to "prove his point", which screwed his player evaluation ability. League on a whole still continued to overlook Euros.

air gordon wrote:Big frank played in europe, that’s why i’m bringing him up, not those other american players that went ahead of the american mitchell ;)

Yeah I'm just saying nobody rated Mitchell that high, not just the Knicks (just because he's not a freshman, NBA's mad about these one and done hyped up little kids)

air gordon wrote:GarPax last year traded for the rights to the finnish born Markennan. Just saying

Pick was fine, trading All-NBA Jimmy Butler for him wasn't. I maintain that stance....

air gordon wrote:Makes sense to me for a team to want to work out a player they are investing a top pick in.

Legit competition should have more weight than running a guy through drills though. By all means fly over and watch the games yourself if you aren't convinced (the GMs), and they can always do an interview with him via skype or something. It's not like this is the 80s and 90s where the internet wasn't as prevalent.

air gordon wrote:Of course the media and fans have a bias. sounds like you do too

Yep, I sure do. I have a bias for good basketball players with strong fundamentals over the hyped up one and done youtube highlight sensations or "raw potential" players. IMO overall quality of American players entering the NBA has been on a steady decline (though there are good ones like Tatum and Mitchell), and it's due to the absolute toxic AAU system where it's all about sponsorship, dollars, highlights, internet hype, social status etc rather than basketball development. One and done in the NCAA isn't helping things either.

Happy to hear that it might come to an end (one and done), hopefully they make more use of the G-League as a developmental league like the MLB's minors for those players who doesn't want to go play for NCAA, and make those who want to go to college stay for 2-3 years minimum before turning pro so they can get some proper coaching. There's a reason why players don't "break out" until they are in their 3rd/4th year nowadays, they just aren't ready coming after one year of college. This is why I prefer European players for the most part, they are well coached and fundamentally sound, play the game the right way and don't give a fuck about making youtube.

air gordon wrote:as i mentioned before i haven't seen much of any of the nba prospects play. tbh i've seen more donic and lauri during the euro tournament last year. caught some of games from the ncaa tourney. that's about it so i can't fulfill your expectations on that one haha

So assuming the bulls don’t trade the farm for Doncic, who should they pick??

That's fair, the tape I've seen on some of those talked about players just have not impressed me one bit...I honestly don't know what the right pick is outside of Doncic, he seems to be the only sure fire superstar for me. Not impressed with anyone else in this draft class.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun May 13, 2018 2:32 am

Working out a prospect who may save or lose your GM job is the smart thing to do. That's being diligent despite how many games one has scouted. For someone like doncic I would have him go against a NBA prototype sized wing but thata just me

Perhaps another time to dig deep on the claim of lack of quality american players coming into the league ;)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Jackal on Mon May 14, 2018 8:09 pm

Valor wrote:Remember the Lakers? They opted to keep "Chinese Magic" (Laughable) Sun Yue over Marc Gasol in the Pau deal when I believe Memphis was asking for either one's draft rights. We all know how that turned out :lol:


Memphis also wanted Sun in the trade, but we wanted to keep at least one of those 2 guys so Memphis wanted Marc and we are happy that we were able to keep Sun Yue, because we liked him when we drafted him.


Source.

Memphis wanted Marc regardless of Sun Yue.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Mon May 14, 2018 9:21 pm

air gordon wrote:Working out a prospect who may save or lose your GM job is the smart thing to do. That's being diligent despite how many games one has scouted. For someone like doncic I would have him go against a NBA prototype sized wing but thata just me

If I remember correctly, what made Detroit pick Darko #2 was because Dumars happened to come across him dominating a workout during a Pistons shootaround, so yeah....I always take private workouts with a healthy dose of scepticism. Real games is where one's true abilities can be judged imo.

Jackal wrote:Memphis wanted Marc regardless of Sun Yue.

I don't think we're interpreting it the same way, my understanding of that statement is that Memphis wanted both of them, Lakers didn't want to give up both and opted to keep Sun because they liked him more when they drafted him, so Memphis happy to take just Marc.

Either way, the most revealing part of that article to me is this...
"European players are different, so he's going to have to prove it this year"

They are judged differently from American players, on a much harsher scale, doubted from the start until they can prove everyone else wrong.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue May 15, 2018 3:19 am

yeah sure, boards don't hit back lol. what were the details of the workout? obviously joe didn't do his hw homework correctly, despite Benji's protests haha

what was darko doing in euro play? that sure was one helluva a draft class

i see your point on gameplay but i'm not ride or die on it. i'll take all the information i can get if my job is riding on this draft pick panning out. but again, that's just me.

it's really a shame the alleged top prospects don't attend and play in the draft camps. the bulls don't pick Pippen if he just showed up for measurements

Valor wrote:That's fair, the tape I've seen on some of those talked about players just have not impressed me one bit...I honestly don't know what the right pick is outside of Doncic, he seems to be the only sure fire superstar for me. Not impressed with anyone else in this draft class.

better keep on looking at tape haha
it will be a shocker a team would trade out of a top 3 (yeah we went over the trade last year).

assuming the bulls stay at 6, from the sites i've briefly read, Doncic, JJjr, Ayton, Bagley will off the board. so possibly choosing from...

Porter Jr
Mamba
Young
Carter
Bridges
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Tue May 15, 2018 6:24 am

According to the 03 Draft documentary (condensed version on youtube) Dumars just happened to stumble across Darko working out by himself and fell in love. :lol: Darko averaged 9.5 ppg and 4.6 rpg in the YUBA League the previous season on 48% shooting, not sure what he saw :facepalm2:

air gordon wrote:i'll take all the information i can get if my job is riding on this draft pick panning out. but again, that's just me.

GarPax doesn't get fired for anything :lol:

Yeah a trade out of top 3 always a shocker, hoping we hit the lottery luck again this year...10 years after Rose happened with 1.7% chance.

Definitely not Porter Jr or Young, sceptical on the other 3. It'll depend on where we land I suppose. Not a fan of Bagley either for top 5, reminds me of Beasley. Ayton seems like the next safest thing outside of Doncic I guess?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed May 16, 2018 6:20 am

yeah but darko get awesome playing against big ben and 'sheed in practice lol

i'm assuming they'll stay at 6. i'm on the wagon for picking best player available. i'm not sure who that is but with the assumption the core of players improves, the bulls won't be picking this high in the future.

another thing i'm curious to find out is what is the pecking order for the offense?? dunn, lavine, and lauri. of those 3 only lauri can work off the ball. i wonder if the bulls will drat a player anyway with a high usage.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed May 16, 2018 11:34 am

So, 7th. Damn that winning streak, eh?
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed May 16, 2018 12:38 pm

Yes damn them. Let the hype begin
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Wed May 16, 2018 12:48 pm

Looks like they're televising the draft combine on ESPN Australia, so I'll have to check that out and see who to possibly get hyped for (and then get disappointed when I get my heart set on someone who goes earlier or they pass on).
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Wed May 16, 2018 3:10 pm

Well, we're fucked. Winning the tiebreaker against Kings means we got #7 instead of #2. Wonderful. :roll:

Honestly not liking any prospects. Time for GarPax to sell Cam Payne to Phoenix the same way they've been selling him to the Bulls fanbase, and convince them that Payne+Portis is worth #1 :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu May 17, 2018 2:03 am

i guess the draft lottery is rigged talk is false at least for this year. getting into the top 3 was a pipe dream

does his walker get included in the payne offer?

read a few articles on Jaren Jackson JR. he would a great fit for the bulls
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Jackie Kong on Thu May 17, 2018 5:27 am

Bulls: 7th, 22th for 12th, 13th.
Celtics: Rozier, 27th pick for 7th, 22th.
Clippers: 12th, 13th for Rozier, 27th.

or

Bulls: 7th, 22th for 12th, 13th.
Celtics: Rozier for 7th.
Clippers: 12th, 13th for Rozier, 22th.

What you think about this trade idea? In before I get destroyed by everyone. :crazy:

About Rozier, I also mentioned him in the Celtics thread and while I think he has been amazing this playoffs I also think there is not enough room for him and Irving. Plus, he will be a restricted fa next off-season and not sure, Celtics are willing to pay him enough money.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu May 17, 2018 11:37 am

Seems like the Celtics and Clippers would benefit more than the Bulls in that scenario.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Thu May 17, 2018 3:38 pm

This is one draft where you would not want multiple first round picks, esp not late lottery/mid first so no, I'd rather we use all currency to trade up potentially into top 5 or trade that second first round pick for future firsts.

If we don't move up, I would be ok with us picking Mohamed Bamba. Rather than picking another mediocre player lets go for the one with the biggest boom-or-bust outlook. He'll either be another Rudy Gobert or Hasheem Thabeet. What have we got to lose at this point, right? If he works out then it's a perfect fit next to Markkanen. Dunn-Lavine-whoever-Lauri-Bamba, I can live with that....maybe.

Of course, I'd still need GarPax to get rid of Valentine, Portis, Payne, Felicio, Lopez before I can stop hating the roster again. Even better if GarPax follows them out the door too but miracles don't happen :lol:

air gordon wrote:read a few articles on Jaren Jackson JR. he would a great fit for the bulls

Jackson's a lightweight PF who doesn't like contact though, I still think having a solid anchor in the middle is important. Him and Lauri are going to struggle if shots don't fall cause they cant bang inside. Rather have a legit C
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Thu May 17, 2018 3:53 pm

Fair point. In the absence of a can't-miss prospect or clear choice at the seventh pick, might as well gamble on a go-big-or-go-home selection. It's not like we expected the rebuilding process to be complete in a year, after all.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu May 17, 2018 11:44 pm

Ok i think we all get you don’t like management lol. not a fan either but i'll give credit when it's due

No love for Valentine or Portis? Both proved they are legit rotation players. Portis is even a 3pt threat.

6’11 240lbs is on the lightside for a 19yr old? Tough crowd. I like his shotblocking and especially his versatility on both sides of the ball. That’s a rare combo to be able to protect the paint and still be able to close out/switch on perimeter players

Mamba does apparently fit the high upside pick. If JJjr is off the board @7 (most likely), i’d be for the pick

Pax keeps on talking about adding a wing player. Unless this is some kind of krause-like ploy, i think the bulls are picking a wing
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby benji on Fri May 18, 2018 4:10 am

Valor wrote:Jackson's a lightweight PF who doesn't like contact though

Since when? Never looked like he had that problem in the Spartan games.

Don't worry though, I doubt he slips far enough since he's potentially epic for the modern NBA. Chandler comparatively took ages to learn to use his length versus moving or leaving his feet, and never had a jumper.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Fri May 18, 2018 9:55 am

air gordon wrote:Ok i think we all get you don’t like management lol. not a fan either but i'll give credit when it's due

What am I supposed to do? Praise them when they haven't done anything praiseworthy recently?

air gordon wrote: No love for Valentine or Portis? Both proved they are legit rotation players. Portis is even a 3pt threat.

Valentine is a rotational player.....on a lottery team. He's not quality enough to be a rotational option on a playoff contender, that's where we want to be, right?
Portis is a punk who talked a lot of shit about the Bulls and then punches his own teammates, so no, no love for him. Oh, and Mirotic is twice the player he is.

air gordon wrote:6’11 240lbs is on the lightside for a 19yr old? Tough crowd. I like his shotblocking and especially his versatility on both sides of the ball. That’s a rare combo to be able to protect the paint and still be able to close out/switch on perimeter players

We have Lauri who is 7'0 230 at PF already, and as a power forward who's game is to be athletic and run around etc Jackson is not likely to add more. I'd rather have a bigger guy who can handle physicality. (have you seen the guy? he looks like a stick) A lot of times in college he gave up cheap fouls cause he can't hold his ground; and with all that length and athleticism, he only averaged 5.8 rebounds, that tells me he just doesn't want to bang down low.

Also, both sides on the ball? Dude plays out of control and is a turnover machine, 17.4% turnover percentage. Ayton in comparison is at 11.3%. His shot is slow as too, not gonna get that off in the NBA.

Conclusion: Jackson reminds me of Thon Maker. I don't necessarily hate the choice if we go with him (like i said, high risk/reward ones are fine) but I don't think we should be drafting another PF when we have a lot of other holes to fill as Lauri looks legit. At least there's no questions with the legitimacy of Jackson's age, I guess.


air gordon wrote:Pax keeps on talking about adding a wing player. Unless this is some kind of krause-like ploy, i think the bulls are picking a wing

Please no Michael Porter Jr
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri May 18, 2018 1:46 pm

Management did a fine job this year. Minus the Felecio deal, the moves they made were solid.

Valentine doubled his production this year and is a good 3pt shooter on high volume. Even added a floater to his game. Portis may be a punk but he has become a reliable scorer off the bench. It was a roller coaster ride for Niko. thanks to the heavens it’s over.

Those guys may not have all star appearances in their future but this team needs their own guys to develop. They’ll never get out of the basement if they continue to miss on draft picks/not accumulate assets. Obviously a lot riding on the return from the Butler trade and the upcoming draft pick as well.

I’m not sure how you’ve already come to a conclusion these prospects are deadbeats. Perhaps you’re merely just overstating their weaknesses (some incorrectly says the michigan native) listed on websites (lol). Whoever they get @7 is not going to be polished/haven't been playing professional since they were in diapers like Doncic ;)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby benji on Fri May 18, 2018 11:19 pm

He averaged 6 rebounds a game, playing 22 minutes, and it was still only one rebound off the team leaders. Other than Ward he was probably the most consistent offensive rebounder on the team. He was eighth in the Big Ten in rebounding percentage.

He's a big, who had just turned 18 to start the season season, a lot of his turnovers were screens and he never got "star" calls like Bridges. He still dominated defensively, everyone could overplay and not screw up the defense because Jackson was incredible at closing the gaps. And again, he was 18! He swatted 14% of opposing shots, which was 2nd in college basketball last year, and a higher rate than Anthony Davis, John Henson and most everyone else big name recently.

Playing out of control is like the last thing you could call him, if anything he was often too concessionary to the veterans who were worse. The team's offense was basically Bridges fires up a bunch of shots, and everyone else plays efficiently to make up for it. When Bridges crapped the bed mid-season and refused to shoot against Minnesota, Jackson tore them apart, so they threw a zone at him and he hit five threes. He rarely had the green light to put up that many shots, Nick Ward didn't either but he would actually take em and get himself yanked even though he was overall the Spartans best player. Jackson hit 80% on his FT's too.

Did I mention that he's still 18?!? He's younger than the HSer in the Draft!

He's practically a perfect pick at #4 for Memphis. It'd be shocking if he dropped past them. And more so if he made it to #7.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby benji on Fri May 18, 2018 11:21 pm

for what's it worth, ESPN Insider aka The "Experts" Formally Known As DraftExpress has you guys taking:
7. Chicago Bulls

Wendell Carter Jr.
Duke
Age: 19.0
C

Height: 6-10 | Weight: 263

Small forward is a definite position of need, but Robin Lopez and Bobby Portis are entering the final year of their contracts, so it also makes sense to think about drafting a big man who complements Lauri Markkanen on both ends of the floor.

Carter's feel and versatility are promising in a number of ways. He is a physically mature big man with a 263-pound frame and 7-foot-3 wingspan, which will allow him to play center in the NBA with ease.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Fri May 18, 2018 11:52 pm

air gordon wrote:Management did a fine job this year. Minus the Felecio deal, the moves they made were solid.

Yeah we disagree on that, especially the Butler deal, but let's move on...

air gordon wrote:Valentine doubled his production this year and is a good 3pt shooter on high volume. Even added a floater to his game. Portis may be a punk but he has become a reliable scorer off the bench. It was a roller coaster ride for Niko. thanks to the heavens it’s over.

Rollercoaster ride for Niko - I blame Hoiberg for that. He's been inconsistent since Hoiberg took over when he really should've fitted right into his system. That's coaching. He went on a roll before we traded him (another trade they botched, I might add), and he's continued that for New Orleans right into the playoffs where he was their third best player behind Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday. Just think about that, then compare him with Portis. 3rd best player a playoff team that made the Western Conference second round as opposed to an undisciplined punk who's a bad teammate and not as good of a basketball player. I know who I'd want more on the roster...

Valentine's career high point came when he won Summer League MVP. He'll never be more than a bench warmer on a playoff contender, maybe come off the bench for 5-10 minutes to shoot a few shots to change the flow of the game, that's about it...doubling your production sounds better than it is when its from 5 to 10 ppg, especially when he shot twice as many shots as JB, Wade, Rondo etc all left the team.

air gordon wrote:Those guys may not have all star appearances in their future but this team needs their own guys to develop. They’ll never get out of the basement if they continue to miss on draft picks/not accumulate assets. Obviously a lot riding on the return from the Butler trade and the upcoming draft pick as well.

I completely understand the need to having role players on the roster, but right now what this team needs is legit stars to build from as a foundation after shipping out All-Star and All-NBA player Jimmy Butler, and it doesn't help that the best role player vet who could've been a mentor to these young ones was shipped out for Cam fucking Payne.

air gordon wrote:I’m not sure how you’ve already come to a conclusion these prospects are deadbeats. Perhaps you’re merely just overstating their weaknesses (some incorrectly says the michigan native) listed on websites (lol). Whoever they get @7 is not going to be polished/haven't been playing professional since they were in diapers like Doncic ;)

I'm not rating them badly because they haven't been pros, I'm rating them badly because they aren't ready in the NBA and should be staying a few more years in college to develop instead of coming in and being absolute shit, and we need players who can play.

I'm stating their weaknesses that I saw on tape, not reading them on websites. If you can't watch their game footage and see the same weaknesses then we really have nothing to talk about. You don't even need to look at his numbers to see that Jaren Jackson is skinny as fuck and gets pushed around in games against fellow college players, how do you think he'll do against grown men? Porter Jr on the other hand only played what? 3 games due to his back injury? and looked really bad in all of those games. With our dodgy medical staff do you think it's wise to draft him based on the fact that he's coming off a serious injury and there might be long term repercussions? That alone should strike him off the list.

benji wrote:He averaged 6 rebounds a game, playing 22 minutes, and it was still only one rebound off the team leaders. Other than Ward he was probably the most consistent offensive rebounder on the team. He was eighth in the Big Ten in rebounding percentage.

and Michael Beasley averaged 12.4 rebounds a game with 4 offensive boards. Didn't turn out to be much of a rebounder in the NBA did he? Of course, not saying he's going to be a Beasley, but with that frame he's not going to get more than 6 rebounds a game in the NBA playing out of position at center, which he will if he plays alongside Lauri. We need something better than Robin Lopez, not worse.

benji wrote:Did I mention that he's still 18?!? He's younger than the HSer in the Draft!

That's not really a concern for me, if he's not a 28 year old pretending to be 18 i really don't care about age. In fact, being that young means his entire rookie contract will be spent on learning how to play basketball, which will really suck for us if we take him and suffer a few more years of mediocrity before he may or may not turn out good.

Then again, we have a college coach pretending he can coach the NBA, so maybe more college players instead of NBA players will get him more comfortable.

benji wrote:Playing out of control is like the last thing you could call him, if anything he was often too concessionary to the veterans who were worse.

17.4 turnover percentage and 23.5 usage rate tells me a different story. Obviously I haven't seen all of his games but from the few clips that I have found of him playing his turnovers come when he's driving wildly into the paint, making moves before he thinks about what he's doing. Not showing good basketball IQ is a no-no for me.

I agree he's a good shot blocker and has potential but he's still undisciplined on defense, committing a lot of cheap fouls. Like I said, i reckon he's comparable with Thon Maker. He'll be a good fit in Memphis due to them already having a legit center in Gasol. Not with us when we have a lightweight stretch 4 in Lauri.

Wendell looks like a big boy, I'm wary of Duke products but I haven't done any homework on him so I'll pass on commenting.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat May 19, 2018 2:42 am

So let’s hear why the butler trade was bad (other than they could have gotten a “better” deal). I dont remember your thoughts on it. I wondered what that side was going to argue considering the lack of assets, Jimmy Butler impending free agency (and age), and Rondo/Wade still on the payroll.

Niko changed uniforms but still brought the same inconsistency. Actually he was a less efficient scorer playing with a much more talented pelican team. The 20, 30 point games are fun to watch but the follow up disappearing acts were mind blowing. And his contract was up. btw. when Niko was on a roll, does hoiberg get any credit for that??

I don’t remember hearing reading any reports of portis being a bad teammate with the exception of punching out niko (lol). After the incident there was no incident and really, not even one audio or off the record quote from a teammate saying portis was a bad teammate.

You don’t like Portis or Valentine? What’s your expectation for players drafted at 14 & 22? I agree we need all stars but it’s unlikely coming from players drafted at those positions.

Brook Lopez is fine as a mentor. Definitely was sad to see Taj go

I'm not rating them badly because they haven't been pros, I'm rating them badly because they aren't ready in the NBA and should be staying a few more years in college to develop instead of coming in and being absolute shit, and we need players who can play.

You can’t have it both ways though. It’s a rarity for underclassmen to be ready to play. You pick an upperclassman they are more nba ready but they have limited ceiling. Mamba is more raw than JJjr. And what the hell about Mcdermott? He fits the experienced college player description to a T. Fuck what a miss on that one.

As i stated, haven’t watched much of any of these prospects. i'm still forming my opinion on just a few of them. How many games/ game tape of the prospects have you seen?

Fair call on PorterJr and his injury concern
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Andrew on Sat May 19, 2018 2:53 am

Carter seems decent, but reports about his lack of quickness in his reactions on defense and being the last player up the court are a little troubling. Looks like he's got a respectable shooting touch though, and can block and rebound, so that's promising. They're comparing him to Juwan Howard and Al Horford; if that's at all a realistic ceiling, that's not too shabby. I'm not going to get too hyped, but if they end up picking him, he seems like he'd be worth taking a shot on.

Mikal Bridges might be a decent option as well. Not without his issues, but not a bad player to get at that pick.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Sat May 19, 2018 3:01 am

I was of the opinion that trading Butler away was a bad idea, period. He's an all-NBA player entering his prime with a team-friendly contract, we were in no hurry to deal him away and had all the leverage, what we got in return is not good enough. Easily could've kept him and rebuild around him (and they wasted a year of being able to do that by signing Rondo and Wade despite saying we need youth and athleticism....)

The way Hoiberg handled the whole thing with Niko-Portis was terrible, confrontations happen all the time in practices around the league, rarely if ever escalates to sucker punches. That's the coach's fault for not putting a stop to things before it got out of hand.

Punching out a teammate isn't bad enough? Like I said after the incident, the fact that some of the players were backing Portis in that incident shows the entire locker room has character issues and need to be cleaned out. This is different, btw, from MJ punching Kerr in practice because #1 MJ knew he was in the wrong #2 Phil intervened and fixed the issue #3 They addressed it and moved on. Here GarPax Hoiberg just slapped Portis on the wrist and swept the whole thing under the carpet.

Role players at 14-22 are fine, we are picking 7th atm. I expect a fringe starter at worst, not another bench-warmer/role player; and McDermott is exactly why I don't want Porter Jr, they are practically the same player except the kid is taller and has back issues; and I'll rather go for sophomores and juniors rather than freshman or seniors. It takes really exceptional talent for freshman to be able to come in and play well in the NBA after a one-and-done season (ie Irving, Rose), unless they have strong fundamental skills already like a Jayson Tatum, I would prefer the Donovan Mitchells and Kyle Kuzmas rather than guys like Jonathan Isaac or Marquese Chriss who just aren't ready.

The guys I've commented about I've watched 2-3 full games of. Obviously Porter barely played but I did see all 53 minutes (out of 3 games) that he played in, not impressive to say the least.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby sticky-fingers on Sat May 19, 2018 6:36 am

Hoiberg is not a good (NBA) coach, period.
I remember games last year where his assistants did his job while he did nothing :shock:
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat May 19, 2018 7:05 am

You could say the bulls were one year late in tearing it down haha. I think we can both agree its hard to land a franchise talent.

Not sure anyone couldve stopped a sucker punch other than bruce lee. Thats why its called a sucker punch. The guys were complete professionals on the court. Everyone did good on it. Are there still character issues with the team? Who else needs to be cleaned out? Has there been any other reports of locker room turmoil? Even when garpax instituted the tank late season?!

Doug and MJP the same? Buckets was a big time college scorer on ridiculous efficiency and was a decent athlete. I dont see the similarirties

Thats a bit revisionist historian there on mitchell and kuzma. You even admitted no one was that high on mitchell. Though i must say i wanted the bulls to pick him but said hes unlikely to be available at their spot (this was before the butler trade)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Sat May 19, 2018 10:28 am

sticky-fingers wrote:Hoiberg is not a good (NBA) coach, period.
I remember games last year where his assistants did his job while he did nothing :shock:

Yep, he's rubbish. I have no idea how he's lasted 3 seasons and about to go on his fourth. If Thibs winning 66% of his games and getting into playoffs every season with subpar rosters can get him fired in 5, surely Hoiberg consistently losing and being mediocre should've gotten him out the door already?

air gordon wrote:Not sure anyone couldve stopped a sucker punch other than bruce lee. Thats why its called a sucker punch.

It's called stopping it before it escalates to the point where there's a serious confrontation and sucker punches happen. Notice them getting too heated? Send them home. Sit them out. Throw a bucket of ice over their heads, do something. According to reports this was a long time coming, those two fighting for each others' spot over the last few season isn't new. Hoiberg and GarPax saw all the signs, didn't do shit about it.

air gordon wrote:Doug and MJP the same? Buckets was a big time college scorer on ridiculous efficiency and was a decent athlete. I dont see the similarirties

MPJ not as good as Doug but they are both tweeners who can score in a variety of ways but especially shooting outside (MPJ streaky shooter, likes to shoot, isn't nearly as good at it as McBuckets). Both can't create for others, I don't think MPJ can really create that well for himself either, and both terrible on defensive end. MPJ post back injury has shown barely above average athleticism in his 3 games. He screams shit Doug to me.

air gordon wrote:Thats a bit revisionist historian there on mitchell and kuzma

You can say that for literally anybody that was drafted prior to this one. I used them as examples as they were the most recent cases of sophomore (Mitchell) and junior (Kuzma) players who transitioned well.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun May 20, 2018 2:39 am

Would Red Auerbach get these bulls into the playoffs or even last year's embarrassment of a roster past the 1st round?

I’m convinced NIko used some kind of racial slur on Portis which explains why Portis snapped, his teammates backed up Ports, and just a “slap on the wrist” for Portis. you thought it was handled bad? imagine if Niko and or Ports refused to report back to the bulls, filed charges against each other/bulls organization? get over the punch already ;)

Sorry, Valor. That’s reaching for straws re Mcbuckets vs MPJ. Mcbuckets was an accomplished college SENIOR scoring from all the over place without the all world athleticism. Porter’s resume is built on man childing against high school kids

Valor wrote:
You can say that for literally anybody that was drafted prior to this one. I used them as examples as they were the most recent cases of sophomore (Mitchell) and junior (Kuzma) players who transitioned well.

I’ll play the game too. Tatum, Markkanen, Adebayo, just to name a few, were all freshman and they transitioned well. Incidentally the first 11 picks of last year’s draft were freshmen. Just saying. we can agree some draft sites will proclaim a prospect is nba ready. Were there any reports last year of Mitchell and Kuzma mentioning they were NBA ready/were going to transition well in their rookie year? LOL c’mon.

on a lighter note, our boy, Grayson Allen, scored quite well on the agility drills. he may not even be there at pick #22 :lol:
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Sun May 20, 2018 5:57 am

If there was racial slurs involved, it would've been reported and Mirotic would've faced repercussions from the league, especially in this climate. That's reaching from you mate and a very unfair accusation on Mirotic, who is the victim. I get it, you like Portis, that's alright, but don't defend or make excuses for what he did.

Dude smashed his own teammate's face so hard Mirotic ended up with a fracture and a concussion, that's malicious and beyond a simple scuffle, it's disgusting behaviour. We all grew up playing basketball and other team sports and we know you're supposed to stick up for your teammate and fight for them, there's disagreements but you don't try to kill each other during those disagreements.

Re: McBuckets vs MPJ, that's why I'm calling MPJ a SHIT version of McBuckets. It's not about senior or freshman etc, it's about their strengths and weaknesses and how that could potentially translate to the next level. MPJ nowhere close to the player McBuckets was in college, but they have similar strengths and weaknesses.

Markkanen played in Europe before going to Arizona, let's not pretend he's a product of the disgusting AAU/NCAA system that's destroying talents. Tatum is a rare breed who actually has fundamentals. Adebayo is a pure energy player, not much development needed, just physically. He's a career role player.

Lastly....you want Grayson Allen? No wonder why you're sticking up for Portis.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun May 20, 2018 6:20 am

We don’t know the full story of how it all played out. You claim there were character issues/locker room turmoil/ the organization swept it under the rug? Because most of the players were backing up Portis? Sounds like Niko was in the wrong somehow. And what turmoi/character issuesl?

Niko and Portis reconciled. No reports of them having problems on the court since the incident. The players union and commissioner didn’t step in. Sounds like you want Portis to take lethal injection for his behavior

I don’t particularly like Portis and think he was wrong for the punch. I do give him credit for putting in the work this past offseason. Did Niko ever improve? he had a great March in his stint here and you kiss feet ;)

I joke about Allen. Relax for a sec
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Sun May 20, 2018 6:34 am

So where on earth did your racial slur accusations come from? I say there's character issues because of some of them backing the guy who was clearly in the wrong. I don't care who they thought was correct or whatever in that argument, but as soon as a sucker punch was thrown Portis was 100% in the wrong and the team should've condemned him, just like how Noah was benched by his teammates in 08 after confronting Ron Adams in practice. This current crop shows no principles or leadership.

They reconciled in front of cameras, and never spoke to each other again. Mirotic made it clear it was him or Portis, doesn't sound too cordial to me. I want Portis to be kicked out of the team for that, I would've suspended him for a lot longer than 8 friggin games for starters. GarPax gave him a slap on the wrist and swept it under the carpet, then backed Portis by trading Mirotic. Disgusting.

Niko was the Pelican's third best player in the playoffs and they got to the second round. Didn't miss a beat without Cousins due to his presence. Kissing feet? More like I see a better player there than the brat with violent tendencies that's still wearing a Bulls jersey and see how little in return we got for that better player.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sun May 20, 2018 7:39 am

Paxson said and i quote “both players own responsibility in the incident”. Sorry, no relevant parties stepped in or demanded more to happen to Portis. i guess there are a bunch of bad guys on this team for backing up Portis. It’s fair to speculate something of racial nature sparked it. I can’t fathom why teammates would be up Portis if not for some legit reason.

Or maybe niko said your mom sucks cocks in hell? Who knows. Maybe a 30for 30 will come out and we’ll get all the details ;)

Did you want those 2 to be BFF’s? They didn’t like each other but yet they remained professional. Even saw them give each other high fives. Your just sounding bitter bro. Move on

And since you brought it up, the Pels trade was a win for the bulls. They got a 1st round pick for a disgruntled player they weren’t going to resign anyway. Asik’s dead money isn’t a significant cap strain.

You still trying to make a case for NIko’s awesomeness using the same points from a previous post? Then just scroll up for my previous counter points ;)
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Dee4Three on Sun May 20, 2018 8:08 am

It's possible teammates backed up Portis because they like him better, or Niko did something else to instigate that type of reaction. Also, how are you so sure that the majority of the team backed Portis up?

Mentioning that a racial slur may have been said with absolutley no evidence of the fact, purely guessing, attacking Nikos character with said guess, is pretty bold and quite ridiculous.

Controversial comments with no backing like that is sometimes the reason why radio hosts, analysts, on air personalities in general get fired or suspended.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Valor on Mon May 21, 2018 8:53 am

Dee4Three wrote:It's possible teammates backed up Portis because they like him better, or Niko did something else to instigate that type of reaction. Also, how are you so sure that the majority of the team backed Portis up?

Mentioning that a racial slur may have been said with absolutley no evidence of the fact, purely guessing, attacking Nikos character with said guess, is pretty bold and quite ridiculous.

Controversial comments with no backing like that is sometimes the reason why radio hosts, analysts, on air personalities in general get fired or suspended.

Thank you, finally some sense around here.

They liked Portis better because Niko is more reserved/quiet and is foreign. After Pau left there's no more Spanish mates on the team for Niko to bond with.

AG if you want to go personal and all that shit there's no point talking anymore.


New report regarding Luka Doncic
there's a belief the Sacramento Kings and Atlanta Hawks, who have the second and third overall picks, respectively, could pass on Doncic "in favor of American frontcourt players."

Not even surprised, like I've been saying all along there's an anti-European prospect bias in the league. Reckon we can trade up to 4 with Portis, 7, 22, and a future first and it'll be bloody worth it.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Mon May 21, 2018 1:39 pm

cocks in hell wasn't personal. it was a quote from the exorcist. i was implying it's possible niko could have said that to portis lol. up until that punch, there weren't any questions marks about Poris character.

it was reported niko wasn't working out/hooping with teammates while at the advocate center during the offseason. no spanish fly around is a bogus excuse. go work out with the rest of your teammates and build some chemistry. i think it was goodwill or cowley who reported that niko did "come at" portis. twice. just saying niko is not some saint.

remember, adam silver and the players union were fine with how GarPax handled it. No grievances. those are FACTS.

but hey i think its clear your opinions on both parties in the discussion lol

i think i would shit myself if the bulls picked Carter

pretty stupid for any team to be tipping their hand on their who they prefer.. at least this early
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu May 24, 2018 12:36 am

If porter is healthy and is still there @7, he's the bulls pick
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:24 am

some reports resurfacing of Bamba working out for the bulls this friday

latest espn mock has the bulls picking trae young (and passing on MPJ)

seems like MPJ can somewhat control which team will pick him by having that choice of what medical information to disclose to teams.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:12 am

wendell carter coming in for a workout today.

my preference for this week @7
mpj, bamba, mikhal bridges
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:24 am

Reinsdorf Not really dispelling the cheap reputation he's earned. Bulls didnt want to pay 10k to watch some international prospects?

That is a racket btw by whoever runs that. Charging 10k cmon.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:29 am

cowley reporting the bulls are apparently not happy with Dunn's offseason work ethic/ are enamored with young and sexton.

now that would be something if they did pick a PG. i say that's just GarPax not showing their hand. don't think they've scheduled a workout with any of those

be great if the bulls trade for denver's pick at the cost of taking on faried's salary

or the more unlikely scenario of moving up for memphis pick/take on chandler parsons awful contract.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:29 am

keeping the thread alive lol

anniversary of the jordan flu game. awesome amazon prime has some of these "classics"
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby shadowgrin on Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:19 am

air gordon wrote:anniversary of the jordan hangover game

FTFY
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby Moz The Boz on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:59 am

air gordon wrote:cowley reporting the bulls are apparently not happy with Dunn's offseason work ethic/ are enamored with young and sexton.

now that would be something if they did pick a PG. i say that's just GarPax not showing their hand. don't think they've scheduled a workout with any of those

It would be a waste to draft a PG if they'll keep Lavine and they still have the PG of the future in Cameron Payne for crying out loud! It's either go for a dependable scoring wing or a center who can both defend and spread the floor on offense for me. I prefer the latter with Wendell Carter on mind. All this time I'm wanting them to have a Derrick Favors type of player (not the "injured most of the season" type of course) and Carter seems like one. I reckon MPJ will not be there anymore at 7 and if he's still on board, they should just trade it for later since the kid can't be a 3 guy and they have the Finnish guy and Portis already.
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Re: Chicago Bulls Thread

Postby air gordon on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:17 am

must've been one helluva party, shadow

guess it's smokescreen time. i'd be surprised if its a pg the bulls pick @7.

carter's skillset makes sense. any duke big man i'll always have reservations about though

while mpj is who i prefer to take, i do question if he can be a 3. seen a few vids pre injury. can bring the ball up but doesn't look like he has the handles to get past a guy. in open space he does look good but creating in half court not so much.

locked on had their mock, surprisingly bagley was there @7 lol
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