Chicago Bulls Thread

[Andrew]

Outscored 27-7 in the first quarter today. Ouch.

[Dee4Three]

Dunn may have put up a stinker (1-11) vs the Thunder, but he looks more confident this year. His two games prior he looked much better.

I think he will be a heck of a player, just has some growing to do. His assist to turnover ratio leaves a lot to be desired, but sometimes I wonder how much that has to do with the offense in general. He needs to improve his 3 point shot if he is going to consistently take 2 to 3 a game.


Andrew, do you think Dunn becomes a legitimate starter in this league on a winning team someday? I think the skills are there, he just has to put the total package together.

[air gordon]

Seeing as Paxson admitted that there’s no plan to get the two teammates in the same space to reconcile anything. and the onus to reconcile is on Mirotic, the victim, I'd say it would be handled differently on any other professional team. This is straight up pathetic.

Also, this quote from Portis is absolutely disgusting.

I’m a normal guy. I’m a guy that’s a high character guy, low maintenance guy. I’d welcome him in with open arms,” Portis said.

Really? You'd welcome him with open arms? Was that before or after you broke his face with a sucker punch that landed him in the hospital. High character? You blamed him not responding to your "efforts" to "reach out" after you broke his jaw cause you know, he literally couldn't speak at the time. What a fucking bitch.

really bizarre. perhaps the "cheap" shot wasn't as cheap as reported? you just dont know with this management. this awkwardness could last til Jan 15th when Niko becomes eligible to trade. if it comes to that i doubt Niko would veto any deal

tbh dont care what portis says. as long as the dude plays well, go crazy eyes

[Andrew]

Andrew, do you think Dunn becomes a legitimate starter in this league on a winning team someday? I think the skills are there, he just has to put the total package together.

I'm not sold on him yet. I guess I can't fairly write him off this soon, but he's got a long way to go in that regard.

[air gordon]

you could say that about the whole roster sans Lopez

[Andrew]

Absolutely. As I said before, even the roster from 2001 looks pretty solid by comparison. Of course, we do have the benefit of hindsight there, knowing that certain players went on to become All-Stars and impact players. Still, if nothing else, Elton Brand was already a 20 and 10 player.

[air gordon]

Can't remember where that team finished in the standings but i think the ensuring draft was curry and trade for Tyson?

Glad to put the tank on hold. Caught the 2nd half and didn't regret it lol

[Andrew]

That's the one. They went 15-67 on the season.

[Valor]

Glad to put the tank on hold.

You spoke too soon. Grant puts up amazing numbers of 2 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 assists and we lose to the Suns.

Can anybody attempt to explain to me why Hoiberg thinks it's a good idea to keep starting Jerian Grant?

[NovU]

Why does no Bulls fans talk about Markkanen? He's actually playing like an above average big man already. Is this guy a new Dirk?

[Andrew]

Can anybody attempt to explain to me why Hoiberg thinks it's a good idea to keep starting Jerian Grant?

Is "It's Hoiberg" too concise and snarky of an answer?

Another pretty decent outing from Dunn. I'm leery of getting too excited though, as I've felt burned by more than a couple of former Bulls players who have shown the proverbial flashes of brilliance (or at the very least, flashes of competence), only to ultimately disappoint. I'm still keeping an open mind of course, and hopefully it isn't a fluke. At the very least, I'd give him the opportunity to start ahead of Grant.

[Dee4Three]

As I stated prior, I think they should hand the keys to Dunn. Nothing to lose, everything to gain. I think he's earned it over Grant at this point of the season.

[Andrew]

I agree. Give him the opportunity, see what he can do.

[Valor]

Can anybody attempt to explain to me why Hoiberg thinks it's a good idea to keep starting Jerian Grant?

Is "It's Hoiberg" too concise and snarky of an answer?

Nah, perfect.

Dunn starting +1. At any rate, he can't be worse than Grant or Payne.

[Andrew]

And as Dee noted, there's really nothing to lose. They're likely to be terrible no matter what, so might as well see what he can do, whether he's a player worth holding onto.

[air gordon]

Glad to put the tank on hold.

You spoke too soon. Grant puts up amazing numbers of 2 points, 2 rebounds, and 2 assists and we lose to the Suns.

Can anybody attempt to explain to me why Hoiberg thinks it's a good idea to keep starting Jerian Grant?

nothing wrong with getting the tank moving again. a few other teams won so we still are on the bottom despite the win vs the hornets. tbh if they hit a few 3's maybe they win that game vs the suns

Grant reminds of the PG version of Zipser. he's "steady" and does a good job running the offense and is less turnover prone than Dunn.

i'm with getting more minutes for Dunn. there are just times when Dunn is out of control.

i can't imagine how worse the 2nd unit would be if you put grant with those guys. at least Dunn is getting the minutes late in games.

Why does no Bulls fans talk about Markkanen? He's actually playing like an above average big man already. Is this guy a new Dirk?

what bulls fans? i hear about him a lot at work and at the gym. he certainly gets a lot of positive coverage by the local media

[NovU]

I doubt Dunn is better than Grant. He imho is a worse player and starting Grant probably is for the best shot at winning by little margin. But I guess trying Dunn out as a starter won't hurt either way, either for tanking or for actually trying to win a game.

Cameron Payne, is the future. Let's go Bulls.

[air gordon]

Grant’s not a PG. he’s more suited as SG and feed off of opportunities created by a main playmaker (IE Butler last year).

Small sample size but this year Grant’s shooting has been worse than Dunn’s. And when he’s not hitting that little shred of aggressiveness is gone.

Obviously this is just the bulls biding their time until the great CP22 returns

[NovU]

Good showing by Dunn. Perhaps you guys are right, he probably is the better.

Can't wait to see CP22 - Nwaba duo, top 3 backcourt duo in the nba.

[Andrew]

Blakeney.

phpBB [video]

[air gordon]

Wow Stacey King made the most of his time to rip on Ball. thought ball did ok. Good effort, looked like Walton tried to get him some shots but just ended up missing open shots

Good loss last nite. Dunn making some plays, Valentine continues to play well (!), Blakeney earning his spot in the rotation

That 2nd half was garbage… really the bulls were doing their best to give the game away and finally the lakers cooperated in the 4th

Kudos to walton. Looked like their defensive gameplan was to limit Markkanen and they really stepped up the pressure overall in the 4th.

Also to Randle who seemed to be on the receiving end of a lot scores in the 1st half. Big spark in the 2nd half. Tbh thought the lakers should have run more plays for Ingram. Bulls have no one to counter him and his sweeping drives.

Back to the bulls- i thought hoiberg had some good sets for Markkanen in the 2nd half. The rook just ended up missing. Too bad the players panicked in the 4th and resorted to iso play from the perimeter but the tank continues to roll on.

[Jackal]

Tbh thought the lakers should have run more plays for Ingram. Bulls have no one to counter him and his sweeping drives.

Towards the 4th when Clarkson & Randle are in there together, Ingram becomes a third option. It's basically PnR with Clarkson/Randle most of the time. Those two don't look to pass to anyone but each other most of the time.

Blakeny went off in the first half, god damn.

[air gordon]

Blakeney does have some pargo potential.

Too bad for Ingram....

[Dee4Three]

A couple really solid games from Dunn.

11/28 vs Suns: 24 points, 10-16 FG, 5 Rebounds, 8 Assists and 4 Steals, 32 Minutes
11/30 vs Nuggets: 19 points, 9-11 FG, 5 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 1 Steal, 1 TO, 27 Minutes

He needs to show more consistency, but he has certainly shown improvement. Are you Bulls fans optimistic about Dunns progress and possible future?

[Andrew]

I'm still very cautiously optimistic. As I said before, we've been burned a couple of times by Bulls players who have shown flashes of brilliance/competence, only to not pan out in the long run. Difficult not to get a little hopeful about him, though. He's definitely got some skill; pleasingly, he's looking like he's a lot more of a player than Jonny Flynn, which was my worst case scenario.

[air gordon]

It's great the bulls have a very capable tank commander in Justin Holliday. When he's not shooting 35%, he forces bad shots in big game situations or blows a defensive assignment

We all can enjoy Dunn and Laurie balling out knowing the tank commander is there

[Valor]

A couple really solid games from Dunn.

11/28 vs Suns: 24 points, 10-16 FG, 5 Rebounds, 8 Assists and 4 Steals, 32 Minutes
11/30 vs Nuggets: 19 points, 9-11 FG, 5 Rebounds, 5 Assists, 1 Steal, 1 TO, 27 Minutes

He needs to show more consistency, but he has certainly shown improvement. Are you Bulls fans optimistic about Dunns progress and possible future?

Starting to live up to those pre-draft expectations so far, like you said though, needs to show more consistency.

At any rate, (almost) anybody is better than Jerian Grant as a starter.

Predictions on the Cavs game? I say we lose by 40.

[air gordon]

IAs I said before, we've been burned a couple of times by Bulls players who have shown flashes of brilliance/competence

who are you referring to? who's been brilliant vs competent?

Starting to live up to those pre-draft expectations so far, like you said though, needs to show more consistency.

At any rate, (almost) anybody is better than Jerian Grant as a starter.

Predictions on the Cavs game? I say we lose by 40.

depends if the cavs care enough the whole game. normally they are close ones.
Dunn's 3pt shot has improved greatly but some of those misses are bricks/airballs. not a good sign. i'd like to see him get to the FT line more and make them. paltry ft rate and %.

i wish someone on the team knew how to make a pass into the post. so many times Laurie got switched on a smaller defender and the bulls can't get him the ball.

[Andrew]

Tyrus Thomas, Tony Snell, Nikola Mirotic, just to name a few. All players who've had strings of good games where it's seemed like we're seeing what they'll become, only to be let down when it's become apparent that it was just a fluke. I'd probably be inclined to include Bobby Portis in that list as well.

[air gordon]

ok fair enough. what did you project these players to be after their short stints of brilliance and or competence? i think we all wanted them to "pan out" but did any of them show sustained/consistent production enough to think they were legit?!

outside of Mirotic, none of those players had a a month long stretch of being awesome.

[Andrew]

When Snell had that solid run of games late in the 2015 season, I started to think that he was finally showing something, and on track to be a solid starter. Thomas had a pretty decent season in 2009 as well. Unfortunately, I got my hopes up too soon; what we saw was as good as it was going to get, and it didn't last besides.

[air gordon]

No headband around the neck e-rob on thE list?

Snell tricked you huh? Saw his jersey t on clearance last week

[Andrew]

Hmm...I don't think I ever managed to get behind E-Rob. Optimism was hard to come by from 1999-2004.

On clearance? You mean, they're not paying people to take it off their hands?

[air gordon]

i thought it was a hoiberg jersey t. i would have bought it. forgot snell wore 20. official nba merchandise baby

Kendall Gill on the 2004 bulls baby! good times.

i think Jamal Crawford is the only player left from his draft class still playing in the league. and i mean actually playing versus collecting a check.

you hear about the news on Ben Gordon. sad

[Andrew]

I did hear about Gordon. Damn shame indeed.

[air gordon]

No love for okafor. Too bad. I'd take him over felecio right now. Man does felecio suck right now

Niko coming back tonight...

[Andrew]

Would it be in bad taste to say that I hope he can provide them with a bit of a scoring punch?

[shadowgrin]

[Dee4Three]

If I were a Bulls fan, I'd be excited about Lauri and Dunn. If Lavine can return to form (He looks good in the clips I've seen of him in practice) you guys have some solid, young pieces to work with.

I think they need to keep giving Dunn all the minutes they can give him, he can be special. He's only averaging 2.3 TO per game in his last 6, and hes been playing a lot of minutes. Kids only 23. He's a ball hawk on defense, I like his two way play.

Markkanen is a better rebounder than I thought he would be at this point, he just needs to be more consistent shooting the ball. He's approaching under .40% from the field, but I think he will get more comfortable in time.

Lavine is 22, and this is his 4th year in the league.

I like watching this Bulls team actually, I've caught quite a few games this year. Not a Hoiberg fan, or a front office fan..... but lets see how these young guys develop.

[Andrew]

They're definitely bright spots, and looking like players to keep around in this rebuilding effort.

[air gordon]

hardy har

a 3 game win streak and still they remain the tank commanders.

actually went to my first game this year. free tickets cuz you know im not paying to see this shit show. too bad it was the celtics who played like were riding the tank

[Andrew]

On one hand, it hurts the tanking effort. At the same time, a win over a top team is always enjoyable, and they're still likely to be at the bottom of the league, anyway. I'll take a few bright moments where players with potential play well, in order for a losing season to be a bit more palatable and retain some semblance of optimism.

[Valor]

If I were a Bulls fan, I'd be excited about Lauri and Dunn. If Lavine can return to form (He looks good in the clips I've seen of him in practice) you guys have some solid, young pieces to work with.

I think they need to keep giving Dunn all the minutes they can give him, he can be special. He's only averaging 2.3 TO per game in his last 6, and hes been playing a lot of minutes. Kids only 23. He's a ball hawk on defense, I like his two way play.

Markkanen is a better rebounder than I thought he would be at this point, he just needs to be more consistent shooting the ball. He's approaching under .40% from the field, but I think he will get more comfortable in time.

Lavine is 22, and this is his 4th year in the league.

I like watching this Bulls team actually, I've caught quite a few games this year. Not a Hoiberg fan, or a front office fan..... but lets see how these young guys develop.

Can't say I'm "excited" about any aspect of the Bulls in the last few seasons, but yes, very pleased and optimistic about Dunn and Markkanen. Was high on Dunn in the draft, good to see him showcasing his potential right now.

[air gordon]

I'm happy with Dunn though I see him better as a shooting guard instead of a PG from what he's shown so far... On offense

a lavine/markkanen PNR seems more potent

[Valor]

Another good game from Niko. Def think he's better than Portis (I know, I'm in the minority here) and it's not even close imo.

Too bad FO will trade him and keep BP instead.

[Andrew]

Threekola's played well since making his season debut. I'd love it if he could keep up these shooting percentages, but it's obviously a very small sample size so far. I'd be inclined to take him over Portis, though Portis is the stronger rebounder.

I've always liked Mirotic's skillset, at least at the offensive end, but consistency has been a problem. As I've said before, the reason I've found him to be a disappointment is that he was sold to me as the next Pau Gasol, and to be blunt, he's a long, long way from that. If he can keep shooting more like a prime Dirk Nowitzki and less like Tyrus Thomas, though, then I probably wouldn't be opposed to him being kept around longer. I had soured on him somewhat, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[air gordon]

Another good game from Niko. Def think he's better than Portis (I know, I'm in the minority here) and it's not even close imo.

Too bad FO will trade him and keep BP instead.

you think? my guess is niko will give back better value in a trade so continue the showcase by all means. as andrew said, we've seen this before from Niko. i'm not banking on him doing all year, or at least until jan.15th

gotta give credit to Portis for turning himself into a legit 3pt shooter and less of a black hole. i guess as long opposing big men can't post him up, he should get all the backup center minutes.

any other Nwaba fan club members present?

[Andrew]

Nwaba and Blakeney have both caught my attention.

[Valor]

Mirotic is actually a better defender than Portis though, only area Portis edges out is rebounding, and even that's not by that much. He's just a reckless energy player, those are dime a dozen.

As I've said before, the reason I've found him to be a disappointment is that he was sold to me as the next Pau Gasol, and to be blunt, he's a long, long way from that.

IMO that's more on GarPax for being absolutely full of shit, not his fault, he certainly produces still and has looked very very well since coming back.

you think? my guess is niko will give back better value in a trade so continue the showcase by all means. as andrew said, we've seen this before from Niko. i'm not banking on him doing all year, or at least until jan.15th

Neither of them has "great" trade value, not after what happened. Everyone knows Bulls aren't in a good position to bargain anyways, and knowing GarPax, they'll screw it up even if they have a good bargaining position (see: Gibson, Rose, Butler trades).

The only area of Portis' game I've been impressed by is the improved (ironically) discipline with regards to fouls. Absolute foul machine before, much better now.

Nwaba has certainly surprised, I'd like to see more before giving a verdict.

[Andrew]

I was talking about conversations here in the Forum when it comes to the Niko hype. I'd definitely take anything GarPax said with more than a grain of salt, though I might have to grudgingly hand it to them as far as Markkanen is concerned.