Demo Impressions Thread

[ThaLiveKing]

Talking about the "feel" of Live, the movements aren't smooth in the slightest and the responsiveness in the controls is sorely lacking.

Anyone saying you have full control is kidding themselves.

Don't get me wrong it's still fun but there's nothing smooth about it.

They'll get there though, they got Live 16 to play pretty smooth despite some of the BS animations in the game.

[Dez]

This face scan thing is infuriating me.

I finally got a face scan on the app and it says it'll be available when I next create a player.

I go to edit my player and it says downloading scan but then goes back to the normal icon that tells you to download the app.

[Dee4Three]

Just played for an hour, no changes. Feels exactly the same.

[Dee4Three]

So I got the update, and I think ThaLiveKing may be right.

While the animations on shots are not completely fixed, some of them do feel better. Stepping into shots seems to have improved. I enjoyed pulling up with Kyrie.

[Dee4Three]

Update:

Played for a couple more hours tonight. Takeaways..

- Shooting on the move hasn't really changed, I was wrong, feels choppy and unnatural

- Offensive rebounds on free throws are way overpowered. Almost 80% of the time Thompson or Pachulia will get an offensive board off of a free throw (most of the time for a tip dunk)

- Driving animations happen far too often whether you want them to or not. For example, numerous times I caught the ball 13-17 feet from the basket. Instead of being allowed to pull up, I was sent into a driving animation to the hoop. Once in that animation, trying to pass out without a turnover is almost impossible.

- Players animations move far too fast at random times. For example, I could pass it to the wing (swing the ball), and there is plenty of space for the pass to make it. Suddenly, Kevin Love will have an incredible burst of speed and get the steal in the passing lane, this happens alot on this game, including on outlet passes.

- Driving into the middle of the lane to pullup for a mid range jumper is almost impossible sometimes, because you will push the shoot button in the near the free throw line (on either free throw elbow or right in the middle) and your player is forced into a drive into the hoop.

- There seems to be no difference in your defenders abilities. Kevin Love is grabbing blocks constantly right out of the air, like he is Bill Russell. Everybody seems to have the ability to snatched blocks straight out of the air, on any possession. (I only play on Superstar by the way).

- The post game is hurting because of the games animation system. Like my video with the Tristan Thompson hookshot, the moves are slowed down to a crawl because of the players animations.

- Defense isn't as solid as I thought. Numerous times a defender would just be standing there on the court (seems to be Durant or Lebron most of the time). You will see what I mean in that critiquing video I made. I put the highlight in the good section, but I went back and watched again, and it's what I've been experiencing a lot. Sometimes, it seems like the defender completely stops reacting to anything. He just stands there.

- Rebounding has some really strange moments, play a few games and watch the players in the paint. Literally not reacting to the ball whatsoever. Kevin Love was just letting the ball fall to Pachulia and he was in front of him (inside position). Didn't put his arms up, didn't react at all. It was happening a lot.

- The speed feels broken, bursts happen randomly at strange times when you are dribbling. I feel like I have little control over the action on the court. The play feels hectic and all over the place.

You do not have more control in this game. I am forced into animations all the time that I don't want. Players are not playing even close to like themselves, Kevin Love's speed and athletic ability (his incredibly bursts and blocks) feels very arcade like. I feel like I'm going from Top Spin 4 to Virtua Tennis. Pachulias ability to fly around the basket, athletic layups, ripping blocks out of the air, looks silly. Same with Tristan Thompson doing the same things.

Just being honest here guys, Live has a long way to go.

I've now put over 20 hours into the demo (on court action).

[Izzy Snow]

Would like to switch gears here for a moment. While I'm sure the devs appreciate the feedback, I'm sure they'd like to see the positives which there are plenty of in this game as well. Here are 3 clips I posted on my channel yesterday. Played these at default sliders on all-star difficulty.

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

[Andrew]

For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.

[Izzy Snow]

For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.

It's so easy to get caught up in dissecting the game too much. I've been there. I'm trying to just enjoy the game which I am but if I notice something, good or bad, that I feel is worth showing or discussing then I will. With that said, I'm seriously considering taking off 9/15 since it's Friday. Would be nice to play this game all day while the kids are at school

[Dee4Three]

For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.

Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.

[Izzy Snow]

For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.

Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.

I respectfully disagree with the game having a long way to go. I think now they are truly in the right direction. I believe the game will sell well now that it's being promoted by more popular YT''ers and with that, I hope that the dev team can get more help so that more focus can be placed on modes and a separate team can focus on fine tuning the animations/gameplay. Maybe even with patches throughout the year, Live 18 can be a really solid game gameplay wise and by Live 19, we can see an even much more improved game. I hope they make the transition to Frostbite engine.

[Dee4Three]

For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.

Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.

I respectfully disagree with the game having a long way to go. I think now they are truly in the right direction. I believe the game will sell well now that it's being promoted by more popular YT''ers and with that, I hope that the dev team can get more help so that more focus can be placed on modes and a separate team can focus on fine tuning the animations/gameplay. Maybe even with patches throughout the year, Live 18 can be a really solid game gameplay wise and by Live 19, we can see an even much more improved game. I hope they make the transition to Frostbite engine.

I like your optimism, and we will see. I hope they do make a splash.

I hope they dedicate time to the issues we are presenting and fix them, maybe even some of them before release.

I want Live to do well.

[Andrew]

For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.

Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.

Absolutely. I wasn't directing that at anyone, just reiterating that we should keep discussing the game and collecting feedback as we've been doing. Participation has been good so far.

[Dee4Three]

For sure. It's important to identify the good and bad, to indicate the key areas of concern, and what doesn't need as much attention.

Which is exactly what I've been doing. That feedback I mentioned most recently had pieces that were not discussed yet. Necessary to get out there.

The game just has a long way to go.

Absolutely. I wasn't directing that at anyone, just reiterating that we should keep discussing the game and collecting feedback as we've been doing. Participation has been good so far.

Agreed.

[[Hyperize]]

There is potential here; I am dying to know what this game feels like with considerably less input lag.

Game feels best on 100 speed.

[StyxTx]

Are these all the hairstyles? The only long hair for a white person are the ones in a bun? I don't do the bun thing. Mine is more like Scola's but I don't see anything like that.

Anyway, I've done the demo. It was ok, but I was still able to score way too easy inside even though I have a playmaking PG with a rather poor inside shooting rating.

I saw someone says it plays best with the speed set on 100. I was playing on 80 and it seemed rather slow.

I am glad to see we can choose the type of pass to throw.

Also, there were barely any fouls called. One of the things I hoped for after the previous version was a good increase in fouls. There were not nearly enough last version.

I haven't read anything regarding injuries during played out games.

I definitely like the way we upgrade our players in Live a lot better than in 2k.

Overall, it wasn't bad but it wasn't great. Average I'd say. To be honest, I haven't called 2k anything as good as average for a few years so, right now, if I were to buy one it would be Live. 2k has not released any information at all about game play, or if the issues have been addressed but I don't really trust them anymore because of the way they patch the game so often, making it worse as they do. It always ends off being something I didn't pay for and wouldn't have paid for if it had been released in the condition it ends off being.

It's possible I'd buy Live it if the fouls are improved, injuries can occur to my teammates and me in played out games and the inside game is better than what the demo shows.

[[Q]]

lol I thought they had more hairstyle options before, but I could be wrong

I played some more last night and played another Play Now game, this time on Pro not All-Star. Now that I know how to play the game, it was much easier to play and wound up beating the Cavs by 20 instead of the other way around. Will see what happens when I put it back to all-star

[Andrew]

One of the problems is that you can't pick hair colour independently of style, which you can in NBA 2K. Even with a lot of different styles, it feels a lot more limited if you're trying to pick the most appropriate hair colour.

[ThaLiveKing]

One of the problems is that you can't pick hair colour independently of style, which you can in NBA 2K. Even with a lot of different styles, it feels a lot more limited if you're trying to pick the most appropriate hair colour.

This is where they need to take a page out of NHL's book. The customization is up there with 2K, they just need a face scan

[Izzy Snow]

I like your optimism, and we will see. I hope they do make a splash.

I hope they dedicate time to the issues we are presenting and fix them, maybe even some of them before release.

I want Live to do well.[/quote]

We all want Live to do well. We're basketball gamers in a basketball gaming website.

As for my optimism, I can tell you what's different with 2017 and 2015. When Live 15 released and they removed certain gameplay capabilities like the ability to do lob, bounce and lead pass, I complained and brought to the devs attention many many times. Fast forward to Live 16 and they still didn't add it back. During my time with the NBALiveStreamTeam when I was heavy on Twitter and provided a ton of feedback to the devs, I'm now seeing those suggestions and things I complained about finally addressed. Even suggestions I made like adding the WNBA will be in the game!

I participated in a two week long survey with EA. During those two weeks I had to spend time playing both 2K16 and Live 16. I mentioned to them many times that they need, not to steal, but take back some of the gameplay abilities that 2K clearly copied from them. I even said take some ideas from 2K as well while still keeping their game different enough. One example, one of my main issues with Live was the lack of a post game. We're now seeing a much improved post game and the even took a page from 2K where you hold the Left Trigger or L2 button to go into a post position.

I acknowledge that the animation isn't on par with 2K and who knows if it will ever be. I've mentioned before that there should be a balance between control and animations and while Live isn't perfect, it's done a better job with it in Live 18 and it's one of the reasons why I'm optimistic for the series. Live 18 isn't even out yet but I'm already excited to see what EA has in store for Live 19.

[Dee4Three]

We all want Live to do well. We're basketball gamers in a basketball gaming website.

Not entirely true. Plenty of people enjoy the practice of complaining about Live, about praising 2K, even stating "I hope Live continues to show how poor they are in the basketball gaming genre", or "I hope 2K gets the NFL license back so they can crush EA so Madden will fail". I think a lot of people like seeing a company they don't like fail, fail again, and fail some more. What I am saying is: While I think EA should be further along now with Live, I do not want them to fail. I want them to succeed, I want 2K to have good competition.

Animation fixes, input lag fix (When we hit a button, the time it takes before the player does his action), and players like Love/Pachulia not flying around the basket like athletic guards mixed with dominant big men, and I think gameplay wise they will be in business. Combine that with Roster Editing for Live 19, and I do believe they will make a splash.

[kingpnp]

A basketball game should sell based on its own merits. You cannot say buy NBA Live because NBA 2K is bad or vice versa. If the developers want people to buy NBA Live, they should give us a good product. Sadly, that is still not the case at this point. The basic feature of being able to save roster is still not here. This feature has been available even in the Sega Genesis era! The consoles are now PS4 and Xbox One and they cannot put this simple feature in? But, as I previously said, I will still buy NBA Live like I have done in the past just to address the game fatigue with the other game.

mat, no one said buy nba live because 2k sucks. no one said buy 2k because nba live sucks.

I'm saying 2k in all its goodness is by far the most frustrating sports game to date. I have never in life been this frustrated with a sports game. Thats because its heavy into over produced multiple player canned animations. they do that to make the game VISUALLY more appealing. But it hurts the actual FEEL of the person controlling the defender or the guy with or without the ball. NBA LIVE does not have that problem. They have a visuals problem.

2k and live have problems both on the opposite ends of the spectrum. If you're like me, you will always have an issue with 2k even though you like it. because they wont let go off all those 2 player canned animations. every year they swear you can break out of the single player animations you may trigger. than you find out thats not really true. they lie and say there are no 2 player canned animations. then you find out that was just a flat out lie. this is every year they say this. I heard they are saying it again for 2k18.. I hope this time they are not lying. if they are telling the truth...2k18 will be the best basketball game ever made without discussion. and it would make me happy and less frustrated when playing 2k's basketball games.

if they dont do it and its just more of the same. I will be hoping upon hope that nba live will get their graphics/animations together to look more appealing because the feel and freedom is already in the game.

[Dee4Three]

A basketball game should sell based on its own merits. You cannot say buy NBA Live because NBA 2K is bad or vice versa. If the developers want people to buy NBA Live, they should give us a good product. Sadly, that is still not the case at this point. The basic feature of being able to save roster is still not here. This feature has been available even in the Sega Genesis era! The consoles are now PS4 and Xbox One and they cannot put this simple feature in? But, as I previously said, I will still buy NBA Live like I have done in the past just to address the game fatigue with the other game.

mat, no one said buy nba live because 2k sucks. no one said buy 2k because nba live sucks.

I'm saying 2k in all its goodness is by far the most frustrating sports game to date. I have never in life been this frustrated with a sports game. Thats because its heavy into over produced multiple player canned animations. they do that to make the game VISUALLY more appealing. But it hurts the actual FEEL of the person controlling the defender or the guy with or without the ball. NBA LIVE does not have that problem. They have a visuals problem.

2k and live have problems both on the opposite ends of the spectrum. If you're like me, you will always have an issue with 2k even though you like it. because they wont let go off all those 2 player canned animations. every year they swear you can break out of the single player animations you may trigger. than you find out thats not really true. they lie and say there are no 2 player canned animations. then you find out that was just a flat out lie. this is every year they say this. I heard they are saying it again for 2k18.. I hope this time they are not lying. if they are telling the truth...2k18 will be the best basketball game ever made without discussion. and it would make me happy and less frustrated when playing 2k's basketball games.

if they dont do it and its just more of the same. I will be hoping upon hope that nba live will get their graphics/animations together to look more appealing because the feel and freedom is already in the game.

This is entirely your opinion about Live and feel. To a good majority of the masses it has a feel problem, big time. Including MANY comments about the animations, the input lag, etc. Choppy animations impact the feel (like my example of a defender easily getting back because the offensive player is going through many transitions just to take a simple shot). The input lag impacts the feel a lot as well. People complain about the feel of the players dribbling up the floor (The random animations and strange speed changes), people complain about the choppy feel of the post game. That's feel. Not only is it not visually appealingto a lot of people, it doesn't have the feel either.

Also, the goal is to sell more games as well. And if it's visually choppy looking, visually arcade like, visually not appealing, they won't make as many sales, meaning more people won't even get hands on the actual game to try the gameplay.

You are sugarcoating it, the feel, the gameplay is what people complain about as well as the visuals, including myself. It's clearly not just a visual problem.

[Dee4Three]

You think these people will buy? Or give the game a chance? No. The problem is not just the feel that people talk about, it's the visuals as well. The way the players move around the court. You can't get more people to try the game, if people think the gameplay looks out of whack and wont even buy the game or try the demo. People are viewing this game on youtube by the thousands, and a good majority are turned off because of the way the gameplay looks.

"This gameplay look jus like that it came from Nba Live Mobile app i downloaded"

"Thats why EA wont let 2k make a football game. THEY KNOW 2K GOING TO MAKE MADDEN LOOK TRASH LIKE THIS!!"

"Lol it looks like it plays like an arcade game"

"You lame ass Live fanboys need to stop defending this piece of shit game. It's shitty!"

"2 years and this is what they came up with?"

"Body models, movement, gameplay all looks like SHIT. I can't believe EA still can't get it together, just give up....honestly"

"You are so damn right.the movement body models...remind me of fifa 17,its the same awful shit omfgg cant believe how bad ea are"

"haha look shit , its look like playing phone graphics "

"This gameplay is always stiff when is it going to play and feel fluid like 2k?"

"Even if this game was $5 I'm still not buying it. Why would I spend time playing a shitty ass game?"

"I wouldnt play this shit for free"


[StyxTx]

One of the problems is that you can't pick hair colour independently of style, which you can in NBA 2K. Even with a lot of different styles, it feels a lot more limited if you're trying to pick the most appropriate hair colour.

You're right. What gives with that?

[Andrew]

One thing I'll put out there as we continue to share our impressions and discuss them with each other: to a point, the feel of the game is subjective. What feels fine to one person, or at least a marked improvement, may be a disappointment to someone else. Both people have a point, and reasons as to why they feel the way that they do. Let's not fall into the trap of dismissing each other's point of view as mere opinion, while stating our own take as fact. Let's also refrain from fallacious reasoning, such as appealing to authority/popularity.

Again, it's been a pretty good discussion so far, but I can see us starting to head down the path of insisting there's only one correct opinion, when both sides have a valid point and valid reasoning behind the impressions they're sharing. Let's not get bogged down with that, as it ultimately derails the discussion, and gets in the way of giving good feedback, which as always is something we have a chance to do here.

"This gameplay look jus like that it came from Nba Live Mobile app i downloaded"

"Thats why EA wont let 2k make a football game. THEY KNOW 2K GOING TO MAKE MADDEN LOOK TRASH LIKE THIS!!"

"Lol it looks like it plays like an arcade game"

"You lame ass Live fanboys need to stop defending this piece of shit game. It's shitty!"

"2 years and this is what they came up with?"

"Body models, movement, gameplay all looks like SHIT. I can't believe EA still can't get it together, just give up....honestly"

"You are so damn right.the movement body models...remind me of fifa 17,its the same awful shit omfgg cant believe how bad ea are"

"haha look shit , its look like playing phone graphics "

"This gameplay is always stiff when is it going to play and feel fluid like 2k?"

"Even if this game was $5 I'm still not buying it. Why would I spend time playing a shitty ass game?"

"I wouldnt play this shit for free"


That's a fair point about first impressions mattering, especially when you're trying to win back the crowd, but let's not pretend that any of that comes close to being nuanced, intelligent, or unbiased critique. It's little more than tired buzzwords and rhetoric, profanity, and Internet slang, from people who, in all likelihood, would sneer at NBA Live even if it somehow magically got on par with NBA 2K overnight. That approach lessens the credibility of the criticism, or at the very least, it's usefulness.

That's not to say there aren't legitimate criticisms of the demo, because there obviously are. A few of those commenters have kind of scratched the surface of them - perhaps accidentally, in some cases - but let's not give too much credit to kids thinking that they've achieved the height of wittiness with remarks like that, or rather more unfortunately, adults who are still unable to express intelligent or thoughtful critique, and likewise resort to expressing themselves in such a manner. We can critique the demo and basketball games in general far better than that, and we have been doing so thus far in this very topic. There's no need to give credibility to individuals who can't offer up criticism that's any more profound than "lololololo itz fucken shit kys ea omfgggg plz plz plz lololool lmafaoooso!1!".

One of the problems is that you can't pick hair colour independently of style, which you can in NBA 2K. Even with a lot of different styles, it feels a lot more limited if you're trying to pick the most appropriate hair colour.

You're right. What gives with that?

It's odd, and frustrating. Even if there's no option to pick style and colour as two independent options, providing each hair and facial hair style in all available colours would be a viable solution. There also needs to be an option to change or correct eye colour, especially with the app messing that up for a lot of people.