kingpnp wrote:Dee4Three wrote:[Q] wrote:matmat66 wrote:Agree with you on this one Dee. You echoed my sentiments on Live 18 based on the demo. As of now, 2k is more fluid for me.
You guys are acting as if Live has had this long history of long, smooth animations... smoother than 2k
That has nothing to do with it. It's stating that it's one of the biggest (if not the biggest) reason people won't switch over. Just because it's a known issue, doesn't make it any less of an issue. If you are competing in the same market, the same genre, and calling yourself a simulation, you will and deserve to be critiqued on the gameplay issues/mode issues (or lack of modes).
Even with the modes they have and as they are, far more people would make the switch or at least buy both games if the gameplay was smooth and the animations weren't broken. For example, it's 2017 and we can't up fake and step in for a smooth jump shot without it looking and feeling completely wrong?.
If it's not working, fix it. I don't want to hear that in 2017 they can't get smooth transitions, especially with technology the way it is now.
Nobody is acting like it's a new thing, we are merely contesting the issues that we have had for YEARS with Live. Issues that stop the game from being good or elite. It's what stops it from making sales or competing.
For example, if someone is an asshole in 2012, and they are still an asshole in 2017, you won't want anything to do with that asshole in 2017. You will avoid that asshole, because that asshole is still well... that asshole. So you can say "you act like he hasn't always been an asshole" all you want. But you still won't associate with him or hangout with him. This is why we can't use that as an excuse. You can say "if he would just change, people would like him more", and you can try to talk to him and give him constructive critiscm, you can be patient with him, even sympathise with him. But if he doesn't adapt or change, and hes still an asshole... well... not many people will support him.
all true and well said. funny thing is, 2k is also an A-hole. Same ole server issues like 8 or 9 years in a row. there's zero excuse. you are no longer a small team/small company just trying to squeeze into the genre. and since you've been thee #1 and only game people purchase for the most part... we know how many copies you sell. we know how much money you make. You have no excuse for the bad servers in 2017. NON. You also have no excuse to keep pulling me into animation after animation while telling me every year "there are no 2 player canned animations... you can break out of these animations THIS YEAR." stop it. you're lying. Just admit you like to over produce your games outcomes in order to make it LOOK visually more appealing. This keeps sells up and keeps you ahead of the competition.
This is why I'm always looking for some other team to come along and make that basketball game I've been waiting for because 2k aint it, and as of today neither is live to be honest. both games have made progress. and both games have their moments when you think "wait this my be the one." Nope. she aint the one, you were excited because she looked cute in a dark club on a dark night when you were liquored up. Turn the lights on when you're sober and lets see what she looks like. lets see if you're still willing to take the leap with her.
I agree completely that 2k has its issues, which I stated above (And numerous times). Servers, forced animations, body steals/body blocks, pace issues, charging issues, etc. I don't sugarcoat anything, or form opinions based on bias. However, 2K has a better feel, it has for a very long time. And while they have issues, they introduce new teams/modes/features all the time. We have the ability to mod because they release a PC version, but even for consoles they have the ability to create courts/jerseys/insert files for myleague, they have the ability to edit/distribute/share rosters, they have the ability to use classic teams, etc. As I stated above, if Live had even basic roster editing/sharing, they would have quite a few more sales, if they had a multi-user dynasty experience, or even a legends pool or decade teams, basic things they used to have but took out, they would have more sales. If they can work on accurate/smooth celebrations (They happen WAY to often in the demo, I've seen Durants shoulder thing and Klay Thompsons celebration like 4 or 5 times in one 5 minute quarter), why cant we take a smooth shot? How can they get the dribbling sequence looking solid (Crossover/spin into a reverse layup), but not get a free throw animation look anything less than cringeworthy? The focus isn't completely on the right things, it hurts my brain that a developer/developers implemented that many celebrations, and thought it would be cool? The developers looked at the on the move (setting feet) shooting animations, and free throw animations, and were like "This is good" or "This is passable"? It looks like its unfinished, but the game is set to release in a month or so. For people on the outside looking in, people who feel how unnatural everything is (Look at how people are reacting to the demo overall, we can feel it as soon as we pick it up) it is mind boggling. Because it's so obvious to us.
Now, we are not programmers, I never said it was easy to fix these things, or program a game. I'm sure the work they put in (time as well) is insane. But it takes a basic feel and understanding of basketball to be able to tell if it will be a flop, or that you won't get people hyped or interested upon first touch. I appreciate that they release info early, that they release a demo (2K does not do that, bothers me sometimes), but if they continue to release an unfinished product, or a product that offers no reason to switch (or for many, to purchase at all) it doesn't matter how good that service aspect is. If I was working for EA Sports, and they said "Hey, try this game and let me know how it feels", I would have said it's not ready, it doesn't feel right. I'd also question why they are not listening to fans about basic features/modes that should be in the game. So you give us WNBA, but no roster editing? WNBA was a great idea, but we have been asking for roster editing for YEARS. There are a slew of reasons why Live continues to not make much progress (Or any progress at all) with the fan base.
It's not "You guys are just used to 2k", it's "2K gives us a much better/more complete overall experience". 2K has to address gameplay issues, FACT. But even this year they didn't stay stagnant, they are introducing 16 new classic teams, and 30 all time teams, as well as other new features. These were features requested by the consumers, and they listened. That's how you keep the sales up every year, not just being the only one, but being the only one to continue to add new content, to allow the public to make/edit/share rosters (It's 2017 and social media is at it's highest peak, and people can't even share rosters on Live?).
I will be critiquing 2K's gameplay the same way when NBA 2K18 is released, trust me. And, I will be taking a strong look at Live again when it's released. I played it for another 2 or 3 hours last night, as I continue to look at things that I think are good or need work. I hope EA is looking at these forums, because the conversation we are having is very helpful.