Chicago Bulls Thread

[air gordon]

So management issues aside-

should the bulls buyout Wade? Bring back Rondo?

[Its_asdf]

I'd say no. The narrative of Wade coming home to play for his home town team is still fresh in a lot of people's minds. The optics of booting a guy who specifically chose to sign with his home town team would scare any player from signing there for a long time... Not to say that they are not doing that right now as it is.

[air gordon]

I'd say no. The narrative of Wade coming home to play for his home town team is still fresh in a lot of people's minds. The optics of booting a guy who specifically chose to sign with his home town team would scare any player from signing there for a long time... Not to say that they are not doing that right now as it is.

Welcome back
I'd like to see a buyout happen. I'd hold no ill will towards management for doing it. Let denzel or even Dunn split all the minutes, at least until Lavine comes back.

Let the young ins play so garpax can properly evaluate all while tanking completely.

Wade deserves a better fate anyway.

[Its_asdf]

Thanks man, just killing some time by browsing the forums. Nice to see some familiar faces still posting here!

And yeah, I totally agree with you about letting him walk being the best thing for the team; the young guys need their reps. I am high on LaVine and think the Butler deal wasn't as bad as people made it out to be because the kid has the potential to be a great scorer in this league. However, I don't really see him in any other spot than at the 2 which is where Wade will play.

However, there is some value in attempting to salvage public perception around the league, especially if you want to retain/sign talent in the future. If they are going to buy Wade, he will look like another victim of the Bulls management. For the time being, I think you have to keep him or else you risk damaging your reputation further. Hopefully he is willing to take a back seat and give LaVine some mentorship.

[Andrew]

They're not the long-term solutions and the team seems to be full-on rebuilding, so buying them out wouldn't be the worst move. However, I'm inclined to agree that there's value in keeping them as far as saving face and not looking like a complete disaster. With LaVine and Dunn, it wouldn't hurt to have a couple of veteran mentors in the backcourt, either. At the end of the day, they come off the books at the end of the year, so it's not one of those situations where they need to explore a buyout because they're on the hook for years to come.

I think it also comes down to what those guys want to do. If Wade and Rondo are all in for playing out their contracts, mentoring the young guys, and doing what they can at this stage of their careers, see their contracts through to the end (which once again is the end of this upcoming season). If they do want to go elsewhere though, then sure, honour that request with a buyout. The Bulls have already lost face by trading away their best player after he said he wanted to be there, so again, do the right thing by a couple of decorated vets to try and restore some goodwill. All that cap room doesn't really matter if their reputation is in tatters; players are just going to say "thanks, but no thanks".

[air gordon]

They're not the long-term solutions and the team seems to be full-on rebuilding, so buying them out wouldn't be the worst move. However, I'm inclined to agree that there's value in keeping them as far as saving face and not looking like a complete disaster. With LaVine and Dunn, it wouldn't hurt to have a couple of veteran mentors in the backcourt, either. At the end of the day, they come off the books at the end of the year, so it's not one of those situations where they need to explore a buyout because they're on the hook for years to come.

I think it also comes down to what those guys want to do. If Wade and Rondo are all in for playing out their contracts, mentoring the young guys, and doing what they can at this stage of their careers, see their contracts through to the end (which once again is the end of this upcoming season). If they do want to go elsewhere though, then sure, honour that request with a buyout. The Bulls have already lost face by trading away their best player after he said he wanted to be there, so again, do the right thing by a couple of decorated vets to try and restore some goodwill. All that cap room doesn't really matter if their reputation is in tatters; players are just going to say "thanks, but no thanks".

Do you mean the veteran presence Wade was providing IE calling out the young players for not working hard enough?

If Wade is taking away minutes from the young players and actually contributing to wins… the season would have been a waste. GarPax would still be figuring out if the young core can play and have less chances at a top pick

Let’s face it. Its rebuild/tank mode. The best way to rebuild is through the draft. it’s going to be a painful next 2 seasons at the least but you have to fully commit to it.

I could see understand picking up Rondo’s option so he can be a legit mentor. he was a positive impact on the young guys, even as to go as far to watch them play in the d-league.


Are you against the rebuild/trading Butler?!

[Valor]

Do you mean the veteran presence Wade was providing IE calling out the young players for not working hard enough?

He wasn't wrong, Rondo's the toxic mentor that needs to go.

If Wade is taking away minutes from the young players and actually contributing to wins… the season would have been a waste.

I agree with this though.

[Andrew]

I'm with Valor re: Wade and Rondo's leadership/mentoring abilities.

I would've preferred they kept Butler, yes.

[air gordon]

He wasn't wrong, Rondo's the toxic mentor that needs to go.

There were a lot of positive reports from the bulls beat guys this year in regards to Rondo’s positive impact on the young guys

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ba ... story.html

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/you ... -teammate/

“Along with Pau (Gasol), he’s the best teammate I’ve ever had,” Mirotic said.
“I feel so comfortable with him and I think all the young guys do,” Mirotic said. “He’s very honest. He’s talking all the time, supporting before the game, after the game, during the practice. He’s always positive. Even if something is not going well, he’s trying to help young players. It’s been great to have him here.

And it was Rondo who came to the young players defense after Wade and Butler ripped them a new one to the press. What leadership/mentor abilities did Wade show? HIgh usage on inefficient shooting?

Andrew,
Why did you want to keep butler? Wasn’t this season enough evidence to blow it up? You still wanted another near .500 finish and 1st round exit at best? Yet another pick in the late teen’s and this time Butler would be in a contract year (and possible Paul George situation) heading into the next offseason? SMH

[Andrew]

I thought that they could rebuild around him. As far as trading him, I felt they should've got more, or at least kept their pick, and drafted better. But we've already covered that, and what's done is done. The team moves on, we move on and hope for the best.

The problem with any rebuilding effort, as noted before, is that it's still GarPax calling the shots. You can blow it all up, but if they're going to make the same bewildering picks and trades, with a Yes Man as their coach, sooner or later we're back to the same situation. That's the frustrating thing. I can get behind the idea of bottoming out and starting over, but how likely is it that GarPax make the right moves, or improve their reputation? Their decisions aren't shrewd, the culture and atmosphere they cultivate has been described as toxic. To borrow from the 76ers' vernacular, I can't trust their process.

[Valor]

There were a lot of positive reports from the bulls beat guys this year in regards to Rondo’s positive impact on the young guys

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ba ... story.html

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/02/01/you ... -teammate/

“Along with Pau (Gasol), he’s the best teammate I’ve ever had,” Mirotic said.
“I feel so comfortable with him and I think all the young guys do,” Mirotic said. “He’s very honest. He’s talking all the time, supporting before the game, after the game, during the practice. He’s always positive. Even if something is not going well, he’s trying to help young players. It’s been great to have him here.

And it was Rondo who came to the young players defense after Wade and Butler ripped them a new one to the press. What leadership/mentor abilities did Wade show? HIgh usage on inefficient shooting?

Holding the pom poms is always going to give you praise, doesn't mean he's doing the right things. He literally made that situation an us vs you thing and ripped the locker room into two factions. Again, nothing wrong with a proven winner in Wade and a guy who worked his way into stardom in Butler calling out some of the softer young kids on the team who didn't display as much desire to win as they do, that's called tough love. Rondo may win over the heart of scrubs like Mirotic and Grant by cuddling them, but it doesn't mean he's a good teammate in the sense that he's helping the team.

[Moz]

The optics of booting a guy who specifically chose to sign with his home town team would scare any player from signing there for a long time...

They already did when they traded both their franchise players in consecutive years.

If Paxson would make the call, he'll buyout Wade in a heartbeat but it seems the Reinsdorfs are not up to it and they would rather find a trade partner who will pay his salary. So by that, expect him to still be in the lineup this year. Meanwhile, they tried to trade Rondo after they shipped Butler but it seems no one's interested and he will be waived. Reports are saying that they will pick up Laverne's option, re-sign Canaan, and will sign Milos Teodosic even though they already have Dunn, Grant, and Payne or perhaps one of them will be traded/waived.

[Andrew]

At least the second year of Rondo's deal is only partially guaranteed. Credit to GarPax for that foresight, I suppose.

[Valor]

At least the second year of Rondo's deal is only partially guaranteed. Credit to GarPax for that foresight, I suppose.

I wouldn't bet on it, apparently they might waive him only to resign him to a longer term deal.

The shit show continues

[Moz]

Well if that's the case you can't blame them. Say what you say about him being a locker room cancer but he did more mentoring to the young guys compared to Butler and Wade.

[air gordon]

Valor,
You lost me on the Rondo thing. I guess it's agree to disagree
We'll know his fate soon

Andrew,
Last year was maybe the worst. I for one couldn't take another year of it. And I'll play the bad management card on your build around Butler sentiments. What leads you to believe they could rebuild around him given their history?

I have my doubts also on this rebuild. If and when the attendance starts dipping we will see how committed GarPax is to tanking. Maybe that's why they sold there 2nd rounds pick LOL

Maybe just maybe someone's neck is on the line (forman) now that the rebuild is on. After Hoiberg, he has no more fall guys.

[shadowgrin]

Wade had no right to rip on his teammates when he didn't even attend practices (per Rondo, Wade didn't even deny afaik).
Don't care if he has no more knees and need to rest to extend the mileage in his career, you want to act like a leader then be like one, attend practices even just do light workouts.

[Andrew]

Andrew,
Last year was maybe the worst. I for one couldn't take another year of it. And I'll play the bad management card on your build around Butler sentiments. What leads you to believe they could rebuild around him given their history? ;

I guess there would've at least been an All-Star on the roster! But touche.

What is it going to take for GarPax to get the axe?

[air gordon]

In all honesty, what was the likely best case scenario if they built around butler? Limited in the moves they can make due to low amount of available cap and no tradeable commodities on the roster

Paxson does have a history of drafting well, albeit 5 yes ago or so which coincidentally ended when forman arrived

I think forman gets canned if the rebuild is not going as planned. Last rebuild had the advantage of the UC being filled due to the MJ hangover and season tickets waiting list so reinsdorf was patient

If Hoiberg falters I believe its forman who follows him out the door

[Andrew]

Only problem is, that's probably going to be at least a couple of years. So...what are the chances Forman has some terrible public indiscretion that leads to his firing?

[air gordon]

The rebuild around butler question? *clears throat

[Valor]

Well, Rondo is gone, along with sadly the wrong backup guard in Canaan. Good riddance. Doubt Dunn will lose his spot to Cameron fucking Payne so there we go, our new starting PG Kris Dunn.

Hope he lives up to his potential coming out of college soon, we need some excitement to keep us awake in this mess.

[Andrew]

Apparently no plans to for a buyout with Wade. Probably best to let him play out the year, or cut him loose late in the season if he wants to go play for a contender. With his contract, I imagine they'd end up taking on a couple of bad ones to get a deal done, so his eventual departure should be via free agency in 2018, or a buyout at some point. No trades. Sadly, GarPax just can't be trusted not to give away too much just in order to move a player.

I don't really have much else to say about the Butler situation, especially since it's all a moot point now, but best case scenario he would've been the only big contract left on the roster. With the continually escalating cap, that would've left plenty of room once the burdensome contracts were cleared out, and from there, they'd rebuild through the draft. As has been noted however, with GarPax calling the shots, there's no guarantee that would've gone any better. I guess I'd sum it up by saying I'm always reluctant about the idea to give up a player that could potentially be built around, but since they did go in that direction, they could've been smarter about the trade they made. I can understand the reasoning behind the current direction and get behind it, but again, the presence of GarPax does dull my optimism somewhat.

That's basically all I have to say about it. I've had my grumble, expressed my doubts. I don't want to be the guy who keeps bringing Butler up, bumming myself out and annoying everyone else with more grumbling and wondering what if, so I'll leave it at that. What's done is done. Now we wait for GarPax to surprise us with shrewd moves, or get shown the door. The latter would naturally be preferable.

[air gordon]

K thanks for further elaborating. i don’t see that scenario very appealing for the reasons i mentioned earlier plus the history of the current regime not landing a big name FA.

but hey there's always the twovles thread if you want to talk Jimmy Buckets

Well, Rondo is gone, along with sadly the wrong backup guard in Canaan. Good riddance. Doubt Dunn will lose his spot to Cameron fucking Payne so there we go, our new starting PG Kris Dunn.

Hope he lives up to his potential coming out of college soon, we need some excitement to keep us awake in this mess.

Someone put a highlight reel of every shot dunn made last year on youtube. Worth a check. Be nice for a change to see a bulls PG go after it on defense

Since Wade is staying (for now), i sure hope he just sts back and collect his checks. Sit out back to back sets. Maybe play 15 if that minutes. just makes more sense to pair denzel and eventually lavine with Dunn.

I am curious to see how Wade is with his teammates now that Butler is out. A few of the beat guys were saying the young guys didn’t care much for Wade after the public spat.

[NovU]

I don't think the Bulls will have trouble tanking even with Wade. The Heat managed to only win 15 games before going onto draft Michael Beasley at #2. Ofc Wade wasn't healthy and only played 49 games but he was 10 years younger at the time.

Makes me wonder if his expiring contract will be a value of some sort come the mid season.