2017 Playoffs: (3) Houston vs. (6) Westbrook

YouTube · by **Lamrock** on Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:47 am

Yesterday's results have locked in two more playoff match-ups: Rockets/Thunder and Clippers/Jazz. Gonna hold off on the Clippers/Jazz thread though, since we don't know who will have home court advantage in the first round.

This should be a fun series - a match-up between the two MVP candidates. I got the Rockets in 6. Westbrook should be able to will the Thunder to a couple wins, but I don't think they have the firepower to beat them in a series.

YouTube · by **JaoSming** on Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:07 am

Beard in 6

by **PeacemanNOT** on Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 am

I'm expecting a lot of blowouts.

Rockets in 6

by **Phil89** on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:54 am

Have to agree with the Rockets in 6. They are just a better team. If Adams/Kanter/Oladipo show up to help Westbrook then maybe OKC can win a couple of games.

Hopefully the MVP match-up will live up to the hype.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:20 am

Rockets in six is definitely the safer pick and I'd agree that it's more likely, but all the same, I'm going to predict Rockets in seven. It'll hopefully be a very fun series with some big numbers.

by **[Q]** on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:27 am

How do you not vote Westbrook for MVP? He's been doing everything himself. That only gets you so far against a better team. Rockets in 6

by **I Hate Mondays** on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:48 pm

Rockets in 6, Harden will go super saiyan

by **Kevin** on Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:01 pm

Rockets in 6 too.

by **Phil89** on Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:33 pm

I Hate Mondays wrote:Rockets in 6, Harden will go super saiyan when he won't win the MVP

Pretty much what happened.

OKC need to rebound better or this series will be over quickly. It's one of their biggest strengths but they got smashed 56-41 in the opening game.

I mean, Patrick Beverley got one more rebound than Steven Adams/Taj Gibson/Enes Kanter got combined. That's just embarrassing.

by **I Hate Mondays** on Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:41 pm

Phil89 wrote:
I Hate Mondays wrote:Rockets in 6, Harden will go super saiyan when he won't win the MVP

Pretty much what happened.

OKC need to rebound better or this series will be over quickly. It's one of their biggest strengths but they got smashed 56-41 in the opening game.

I mean, Patrick Beverley got one more rebound than Steven Adams/Taj Gibson/Enes Kanter got combined. That's just embarrassing.

They need that home court vibe, OKC fans are very loud. They'll bounce back and win a couple of games at home

by **benji** on Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:40 pm

phpBB [video]

by **Phil89** on Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:18 am

Thunder are playing much better in game 2 and are leading 68-62 at the half.

Westbrook has 22p/7r/10a already. He seems to want to make a statement after the game 1 disappointment.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:55 pm

A monster game for Westbrook, but the Rockets overcame that early deficit, and they're up 2-0.

by **Phil89** on Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:31 pm

First ever 50 point triple-double in the playoffs, apparently. But I reckon he'd rather have had the win.

Hopefully home court gives OKC something extra and they can keep the series alive.

by **big-shot-ROB** on Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:51 pm

phpBB [video]

by **PeacemanNOT** on Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:42 am

Westbrook had great game and I honestly thought they had it in the bag but as soon as the fourth quarter came... shit went down hill. He obviously doesn't trust his teammates down the stretch. I heard Reggie Miller talking about how we shouldn't blame him because his teammates couldn't hit anything, when most of the end of the fourth quarter was Westbrook chucking up threes, looking for fouls, screaming at the referees and not getting back on transition defense.

Unless Westbrook changes how he plays and thinks in games, he isn't going to win shit and honestly if they lose this series I think we should put our triple double bias and all his massive scoring performances aside and really consider whether or not he is the MVP. When have we ever seen someone win MVP, shoot as poorly as he is and only lead them to the sixth seed and not even get past the first round?

by **NovU** on Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:59 am

Spot on Peaceman.

As I said before, his huge stats come at cost. People are willing to award Thunders' entire success to Westbrook but never the other way.

If his key teammates maintained last year's production level while Westy had 35% usage rate producing just about at the same rate, I think the Thunder more or less would have been the same team with just more focus on teamplay. For instance, it's hard to believe Kanter suddenly became such a bad rebounder (Steven Adams also regressed) while Westy suddenly became one of the best rebounding PG ever. It seems more plausible to believe it's done design. Rebounds are finite and considered largely to be a team activity and biggest beneficiary has been Westy this season. Factor this in, is Westy really better than Harden, if then in what area? In reality significant win category for Westy over Harden was in rebounding with 2.6 rpg advantage.

by **PeacemanNOT** on Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:11 am

Check out this compilation of Westbrook missing teammates in the fourth quarter:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6 ... teammates/

by **Stress Fracture** on Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:53 am

I was in awe of Westbrook's shooting in the third. I thought the Rockets will lose that game.

But the vintage 4th Quarter Westbrook did it again.

Kanter, Adams, and Gibson should get more touches. Pound the ball inside, WB!

by **I Hate Mondays** on Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:06 pm

Westbrook might've stopped his team's development for an entire season. No dragging back, just stagnation. It's not me saying it. It's the media people saying it. Peacemannot's compilation video it's just the cherry on top, I've seen many situations like these during the season.
I guess I'll ignore any record breaking stats from now on. They become irrelevant and it's easier for players to break records nowadays. I don't want to look like one of those internet trolls but they are right. A 73-9 record means nothing when you blow a 3-1 lead in The Finals, a scoring record during the All-Star game is irrelevant when the defense is worse than an under-10 school game, just as a triple-double record will be easily forgotten if the Thunder don't get at least two wins in this series.

by **air gordon** on Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:26 am

Point taken but that's a bit hyperbolic

Now I'll agree with you on all star game performances. Does anyone really pay attention to those?

The 73-9 regular season finish will be remembered for quite some time as well as the westbrooks triple double average.

This Westbrook situation. Seems there is no middle ground here. Either he has to do it all because of lack talent or he's not passing it enough to his teammates who still are lacking talent

Is his performance, specifically his 4th qtr clutch play in the regular season, any different from IT?

Westy played a magnificent 1-3 qtrs then it all went down toilet in the 4th

by **Phil89** on Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:09 pm

Thunder win game 3, just.

Harden and Westbrook really living up to the MVP hype.

by **PeacemanNOT** on Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:10 pm

Man that was close, great game for Westbrook but those missed free throws in the end was hard to watch. Almost cost them the game.

YouTube · by **Lamrock** on Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:18 pm

Yeah, you could tell he was disappointed in himself nearly blowing it with those missed free throws.

I couldn't believe they were praising the Thunder for immediately fouling Harden up three with 9 seconds to go. Takes basically no time off the clock, gives them two free points and another chance to force a turnover or miss a free throw. Do these guys even play 2K?!?!

by **Phil89** on Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:26 pm

Also props to Westbrook for only taking one three-pointer in the game. Hopefully he now realises that he doesn't need to take those horrible shots.

by **[Q]** on Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:32 pm

Lamrock wrote:Yeah, you could tell he was disappointed in himself nearly blowing it with those missed free throws.

I couldn't believe they were praising the Thunder for immediately fouling Harden up three with 9 seconds to go. Takes basically no time off the clock, gives them two free points and another chance to force a turnover or miss a free throw. Do these guys even play 2K?!?!

Terrible late game strategy. They fouled harden in the back court taking not time off the clock. I was hoping the thunder would lose because of their stupidity

by **NovU** on Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:03 pm

Thought the Rockets played poorly while the Thunder pretty good. But the game was still very close.

by **I Hate Mondays** on Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:00 am

I actually loved Westbrook's performance, despite those missed free throws. As Phil89 mentioned, love the fact that he attempted only a 3 pointer

by **Jackal** on Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:52 am

I hope they change the rule which allows Harden to get those bullshit three's off for free throws. It's so similar to the Kevin Durant swing through play. I get it's smart basketball but takes so much out of the game.

by **Dee4Three** on Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:39 am

Jackal wrote:I hope they change the rule which allows Harden to get those bullshit three's off for free throws. It's so similar to the Kevin Durant swing through play. I get it's smart basketball but takes so much out of the game.

This.

So frustrated with how this game ended, the Lou Williams/James Harden fouls on threes were HORRIBLE. They were not in shooting motions, those are not normal shots, those are "Wrap your arm around the defenders arm and chuck it up to the hoop, SELLING a foul". Those need to be looked at by the league, that's not basketball, that's garbage. Oladipo hit a three a little later where he was clearly hit on the arm, in a REGULAR shooting motion, and it wasn't called. And, Harden blatantly shoves Abrines with 9 seconds to go, Thunder down 2, and gets away with it.

I'm sorry but, I had to shut the TV off, get up, and go for a drive after that game to clear my head from the garbage. That stuff ruins the league and the flow of the game, those are not basketball plays. The sad thing is, this goes in as a W for the Rockets and basically hands them the series.

Oh, and I don't want to hear that the defenders are "Reaching", they are not, the offensive player is wrapping the defenders arm in his and forcing that contact.

That's trash.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:12 am

I didn't see the plays in question, but I think we're all familiar with the tactic, and yeah, it needs to be cleaned up. As long as it's allowed you can give it some credit as a heads-up play, but it's cheap. There's baiting a defender into making a mistake and committing a foul, and then there's manufacturing the situation with a sell-job that would make a professional wrestler proud.

by **NovU** on Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:51 pm

Some terrible calls I noticed mostly involved Harden and Westy. Perhaps superstar treatment.

1. Beverley stares at Westy, ref whistles.

2. Do not to contest Harden's shot cuz it's a foul.

by **Dee4Three** on Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:56 am

NovU wrote:Some terrible calls I noticed mostly involved Harden and Westy. Perhaps superstar treatment.

1. Beverley stares at Westy, ref whistles.

2. Do not to contest Harden's shot cuz it's a foul.

I disagree with #1. In the second half, they were trying to establish Westbrook with ISO's against Beverley, and Westbrook would turn his back on Beverley and start backing him in, and Beverley was hacking him (reaching in while also having his opposite hand all over Westbrooks back) and it wasn't called once. Credits to Westbrook for not complaining, but I completely disagree with #1. In fact, Beverley only had 3 fouls in the game in 27 minutes.

With that being said, two things happened that involved Westbrook that shouldn't have happened.

1. He didn't deserve that foul where he pump faked, got the defender in the air, and jumped sideways into the defender
2. He didn't deserve that continuation on the And 1 (Where Ariza clearly fouled him while he was still dribbling at the elbow)

For the Rockets

1. James Harden (Not in a shooting motion) wrapping his arm around the defender and chucking up a 27 foot three, getting to the line for 3.
2. Lou Williams (Not in a shooting motion) wrapping his arm around the defender and chucking up a 3, getting to the line for 3.
3. 9 seconds to go, Harden shoving Abrines (with two hands) to create space, which should have been an offensive foul.
4. Oladipo shoots a 3 and clearly is hit on the wrist/arm, which impacted his form (It was clearly a foul), he hits the 3. But he should have gone to the line for a 4 point play.

I feel Donovan made quite a few mistakes in the second half. Roberson should have been pulled after the first time they intentionally fouled him. Gibson has proven that he can guard Harden on the perimeter, Oladipo is also a solid defender. The excuse that he wanted him out there to guard Harden doesn't fly with me. Especially considering in a couple of the plays in those final 5 minutes, Oladipo was on Harden anyway. Also, Kanter did not get enough touches... or minutes. He is a talented scorer, and a good rebounder... There were also a few stretches where Westbrook and Oladipo were both off the floor, and the Thunder couldn't score. Taj Gibson didn't get nearly enough touches down low, either.

by **PeacemanNOT** on Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:39 am

1 game off my predicition and there was only 1 blowout.

Overall it was an entertaining series, it was annoying watching Westbrook chuck so many shots up, make so many poor decisions down the stretch and it really hurt his case for MVP for me. Obviously it doesn't change anything since the MVP is awarded for the MVP of the regular season which I guess could be Westbrook, for me it would have to be LeBron. The numbers show that he was the most "Valuable Player" since whenever he was out they were terrible.

It's pretty much been confirmed at this point that Westbrook's won over everyone else, so that's it I guess.

by **big-shot-ROB** on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:03 am

PeacemanNOT wrote:1 game off my predicition and there was only 1 blowout.

Overall it was an entertaining series, it was annoying watching Westbrook chuck so many shots up, make so many poor decisions down the stretch and it really hurt his case for MVP for me. Obviously it doesn't change anything since the MVP is awarded for the MVP of the regular season which I guess could be Westbrook, for me it would have to be LeBron. The numbers show that he was the most "Valuable Player" since whenever he was out they were terrible.

It's pretty much been confirmed at this point that Westbrook's won over everyone else, so that's it I guess.

Thunder +/- when Westbrook was off the game per 100 posessions during this series was -50.1

by **PeacemanNOT** on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:05 am

big-shot-ROB wrote:
PeacemanNOT wrote:1 game off my predicition and there was only 1 blowout.

Overall it was an entertaining series, it was annoying watching Westbrook chuck so many shots up, make so many poor decisions down the stretch and it really hurt his case for MVP for me. Obviously it doesn't change anything since the MVP is awarded for the MVP of the regular season which I guess could be Westbrook, for me it would have to be LeBron. The numbers show that he was the most "Valuable Player" since whenever he was out they were terrible.

It's pretty much been confirmed at this point that Westbrook's won over everyone else, so that's it I guess.

Thunder +/- when Westbrook was off the game per 100 posessions during this series was -50.1

That's the overall game, obviously his team is going to struggle without him in terms of scoring (he's the league leader in scoring for christ sake) They don't really have a second option, it's kind of just like "whoever Westbrook see's open". I'm talking about his performances when it mattered, did you see his 4th quarter performances in this series? Dude was chucking up three's left right and center, turning the ball over, not looking for his teammates, not playing transition defense consistently, complaining to the refs, all the things you would expect an MVP to be able to overcome and be able to get past.

by **big-shot-ROB** on Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:31 pm

Yeah he sucked in the 4th. I see two big problems here:

- The Thunder are a defensive team who just didn't know how to pay defense during this first round. If the only thing you got going as a team is defense, because you are a terrible offensive team, at least put effort on that side of the floor. Some sequences of this round could make anyone think the Thunder are one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

- The other one, and the big one, is that everything has been built around Westbrook, and when things are not going his way, no one in the team can step up and assume some of the play creation since they haven't done it during the regular season. Westbrook's style of play would fit perfectly on a team full of shooters. The Thunder just have 2 of them (McBuckets and Abrines) who both are a liability on defense. They have given the entire control to WB, something that has resulted in a "live or die through him" situation.

The Thunder going into next season they have to make some changes, which are not radical:

- Work with Westbrook and get his ego down. The Thunder are better when he plays under control and his usage rate is down a little bit.
- Let or force Oladipo to assume half of the ball handling. He has the ability to do it, but he needs to do it regularly.
- Give one summer to Roberson. If his shooting doesn't develop,let him go. The meta right now is shitfting more and more towards offense.
- Get rid of one of your bigs (Kanter, imo) to acquire a 3&D perimetre player.
- Sign another perimetre 3&D player. You got some decent during this offseason: Caldwell-Pope, Jeff Green, Hardaway Jr, James Johnson. Otto Porter, Derrick Williams, ...
- Play Sabonis at the 4, he was unconsistent with his shooting, but he was a rookie and he showed great signs. He will give you spacing.
- You can throw some money to George or BG, but have in mind your biggest problem during this year was your bench.
- Try to bring back Ibaka? :cheeky:

by **air gordon** on Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:42 am

some good points there big shot

i think oladipo is a dog. his supposed skillsit should fit with Westy but it sure didn't this season. he posted some good stats in the latter parts of the seasons with orlando but he stinks in games that matter

OKC looks capped out so unless they clear out come cap, they won't be players in free agency.

by **Phil89** on Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:16 am

I agree that Westbrook needs to adjust his game a little bit. But he can only do that if OKC add some shooters around him (aka like Houston did with Harden).

Could be a busy off-season for them. Sam Presti will be earning his money.

They'll probably try and trade Kanter for a shooter or an experienced backup point guard who can help the team not nosedive when Russ sits. Apparently Taj Gibson wants to stay, but they can't afford to keep him.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:50 am

Long-term, having Westbrook try to do it all is not a sustainable blueprint, or a recipe for great success. However, what he accomplished was still amazing, and his efforts did carry the Thunder to a better record than they probably should have had. Moving forward though, they do need to get him more help, so that they can utilise his talents more efficiently and not rely on him to do everything.

What's gonna happen?

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