The Knicks Thread....

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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:58 pm

Andrew wrote:Fair enough. I still think he has to handle his business better and more professionally, by refraining from taking passive-aggressive potshots through his media buddies, and back off from meddling in the coaching of the team. If he wants to call the shots in that regard, maybe he should return to the sidelines.

I think at this point, Knicks fans are simply beyond frustrated. Maybe that leads to some hyperbole, but some of the things Jackson does (or doesn't do) and says don't help matters.


Thank you, Andrew. You said it best. Either be a full-time GM, Phil, or coach the damn team yourself.

WFAN's Mike Francesca nailed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsa9lluxsFQ&t=8s
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:07 pm

A harsh take, but probably a fair amount of truth in it, especially the "if that roster was good enough, he'd be coaching it" bit.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:04 am

Andrew, we always talk about the "bottom line".....well, the last three years aren't on Dolan, they're on Phil. He has to own it and stop acting like a know-it-all douche.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby air gordon on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:31 am

Wow the disdain in his voice

Can't sit on both sides of the fence, jackal. This triangle issue is just like him playing pseudo coach. It's either you're in or you're out.

rose couldn't get the triangle offense and for his career is not used to having the balls in his hand. Bulls tried playing him off the ball and he stunk

A better question about the triangle is why arent more teams running it as their main set?? Why has the modern game turned into away from it and go towards pick and roll?? And why would jackson purposefully waste a season of development on KP?

I don't think the Bulls or Knicks are significantly in a better position than the other. I believe both teams are fed up with the GM and just don't trust him to make the right decision
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jackal on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:48 am

Why they don't run more triangle? That's a solid question, the game has changed a lot, it's a lot more drive and dish for three's and the pick and roll is ideal for that given the surge in high caliber guards and lesser skilled bigs. I'm sure there are teams that use semblances of things from the triangle. It's just become such a dirty term in recent years.

And he didn't initially set out to waste a year of KP, he tried to make something happen with Noah/Rose and had Rose going all we're a super team at the start of the season. Then it became apparent they stink so unfortunately it killed any chance they had.

I keep hearing how terrible Jackson has been the past three years but I keep saying they are better set up for the future than they have been before.

What are the super terrible moves besides Noah? I'm genuinely asking since I don't follow the Knicks that much. Off the top of my head he dealt Smith and Shumpert which helped the Cavs tremendously but it's not like they were stars in NY. Rolo for Rose is another bad one but he comes off the books this off season.

They bought out Amare also I think? But that dude's in Israel. The NTC was a shit move but as a GM trying to get your "star" to stay I guess I understand it.

They have all their first round picks, they have a bunch of seconds I think, they have O'Quinn, KP, Hernanagomez and probably a lottery pick after this off season. Again I'm failing to see how he's as bad as IT.

Anyways, like I said I don't follow the Knicks so I shouldn't even be defending the dude. I just think looking back a lot of people will realize it wasn't as bad/Sky is falling type when they look back. Especially since I shudder to think which yesman Dolan will bring in.

But good luck to the franchise, I wish them and their fan base well.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:02 pm

Phil was supposed to create a positive culture, and end the typical Knick drama. Instead, he's added to it.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby [Q] on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:22 am

To be fair, RE:triangle, Phil was given a shitty roster ill suited to run the triangle. Not too many players with high basketball iq and willing to play in a system. He's tried to make it work but like d'antoni, it's tough to run your system when you don't have the right personnel. Look at what mikes been able to do with the right roster in Houston this year.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby air gordon on Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:18 am

[Q] wrote:To be fair, RE:triangle, Phil was given a shitty roster ill suited to run the triangle. Not too many players with high basketball iq and willing to play in a system. He's tried to make it work but like d'antoni, it's tough to run your system when you don't have the right personnel. Look at what mikes been able to do with the right roster in Houston this year.

Haha this is the Phil Jackson apologist thread

So what did your boy do? d'antoni has been on the job for 1 year. He gave a big contract to Ryan Anderson, took a chance on Eric Gordon (neither will be mistaken for high iq players), put Harden at pg... and bam!

Meanwhile Jackson gives Anthony a no trade clause, hires a coach who doesn't run the triangle, and signs the most anti triangle PG in the league- Derrick Rose
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:09 am

air gordon wrote:So what did your boy do? d'antoni has been on the job for 1 year. He gave a big contract to Ryan Anderson, took a chance on Eric Gordon (neither will be mistaken for high iq players), put Harden at pg... and bam!

Meanwhile Jackson gives Anthony a no trade clause, hires a coach who doesn't run the triangle, and signs the most anti triangle PG in the league- Derrick Rose



.....plus all his weird passive/aggressive behavior with Carmelo, and still trying to be a coach from the stands.

Knicks will have to rebuild through the draft and trades...no A-List free agent is coming here to deal with Phil's b.s.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:31 pm

Just read that Noah needs rotator cuff surgery. He's still got to serve the balance of his suspension, too. Three years, $54 million left on his contract.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:54 pm

Andrew wrote:Just read that Noah needs rotator cuff surgery. He's still got to serve the balance of his suspension, too. Three years, $54 million left on his contract.



I f-n hate the Knicks organization.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:28 am

Noah is actually sidelined from sideline.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:11 am

Knicks should have given Riley what he wanted back in 1995.

Hardcore fans have to accept the fact this franchise will ALWAYS be a joke with Dolan. But since the Knicks are worth $3 billion, he's never selling.....in other words, we're f-d.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenh ... a2a2d7a38c
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby I Hate Mondays on Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:24 am

Did Phil just say that? What the actual hell. One way ticket to the LA Clippers for Mr. Melo, please
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:25 am

Not really what you want your gm saying but at least he's being honest
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:52 am

The problem is, that honesty costs him leverage in trying to trade Melo, which he doesn't have much of anyway thanks to the no-trade clause. There's wisdom in diplomacy, and carefully choosing your words so that you don't end up digging yourself deeper.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby [Q] on Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:58 am

Well he just had the last 2 years of his deal picked up, so I'd imagine he feels safe at this point
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:31 pm

Phil's press conference made me sick to my stomach - he IS as bad as Isiah Thomas. He has no idea how to be a GM - he's a coach masquerading as one. Did you catch those subtle jabs at Hornacek, yet he praised Kurt Rambis. He even admitted to undermining his head coach, more than we knew. He has no business stopping practices - either coach the damn team yourself, or stay out of the way and focus on being a GM 24/7. No wonder there was so much confusion among the players. If I'm Hornacek, I tell Phil goodbye, but I guess he's getting well paid being a puppet.

This is straight up bullshit - and the next two years will be more of the same. There is absolutely nothing to like about this franchise anymore.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:37 pm

mp3 wrote:Not really what you want your gm saying but at least he's being honest


He's not a GM, he's a fraud who's stealing Dolan's money. He's an expert at deflecting blame, yet he picked the coach and the players. And if it's true that the Knicks are open to Rose coming back, Dolan should fire Phil now.

I don't blame KP for blowing off his meeting - the kid is clearly frustrated with all the dysfunction.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:50 pm

Technically Phil is president,Steve Mills is the GM but he's just another muppet to Jackson.

Kp skipping the exit meeting is concerning for the future, he's a RFA after this year he may just want to bolt next sunmer
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jackal on Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:04 am

I take it all back. Phil is cashing in his check and basically just fucking with the Knicks. :|

Good luck fellas.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Jeffx on Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:03 am

Jackal wrote:I take it all back. Phil is cashing in his check and basically just fucking with the Knicks. :|

Good luck fellas.


After three years, NOW Phil wants a do-over??? NOW he wants to rebuild????? That should have been the plan from Day 1.

By the way, Hardaway Jr. is another ex-Knick flourishing somewhere else. If Phil doesn't straighten this out, KP might join that list....


To all the Bulls fans complaining about their front office - please stop.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:29 am

I mean, I feel we have valid complaints too, but you've definitely got it worse.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby Andrew on Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:25 pm

Woj's take.

As Jackson publicly pushed for Carmelo Anthony to waive his no-trade clause and accept a move out of New York on Friday and disparaged coach Jeff Hornacek’s connectivity to the locker room, a bigger issue emerged: Kristaps Porzingis made a stand about the unprofessionalism and routine chaos that has lorded over his work environment.

Porzingis passed on the exit interviews, as ESPN’s Ian Begley first reported, and league sources say Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.

Porzingis isn’t alone. Players are privately fuming that they want no part of the organization’s summer slate of triangle offense regimen at the team’s suburban New York practice facility, league sources told The Vertical. In reality, there’s an open rebellion to the triangle – for the offense itself, and by extension, the discord and dysfunction that its implementation has burdened upon everyone.

It isn’t only Jackson’s laborious organizational emails about the triangle – demands of emphasis on schooling players on the reverse pivot move, or the proper passing techniques – but his increasing insistence on the coaching staff and players that the obsolete offense become fully functional for the 2017-18 season.


Inside and outside the Knicks, people see a franchise in disrepair: Jackson’s open war with Anthony, the failed trade for Derrick Rose and the $72 million contract albatross of a broken-down Joakim Noah. Players grumble of a support staff that is far more concerned about creating an illusion of hard work with management and ownership than facilitating winning, a media-relations staff that is suffocating and intrusive, and a management/coaching dynamic that’s made Hornacek look like a puppet.


After his first season as Knicks coach, Hornacek is still trying to incorporate a system that is foreign to him, armed with a Jackson-installed assistant coach, Kurt Rambis, who is beyond unpopular with the players, league sources said. When players want coaching and teaching, they get yelling, sources said. Most wonder about Rambis’ allegiances, because after all, he’s Jackson’s guy, not Hornacek’s.


He may not have made the terrible moves Isiah Thomas did, but in terms of meddling and making things dysfunctional, he's certainly bad - arguably just as bad - in his own way.

As I've said before, the bewildering part about it is that he's had to deal with dysfunctional and meddling management before. Perhaps he think it's different if he does it, because he's the Zen Master, the eleven-time champion and Guru of Winning in the NBA. If so, it would seem he's mistaken, and he's become the very thing he always railed against. I suppose that old quote from The Dark Knight about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain is as applicable in the real New York as it is in the fictional Gotham; just replace "dying" with "retiring", and "living long enough" with "making the transition from the sidelines to the front office".

Ham-fisted pop culture references aside, as you might expect, the Players Union isn't happy about his remarks regarding Carmelo Anthony.

“We voiced with the Commissioner today our view on the inappropriate comments by Knicks President Phil Jackson. If players cannot, under threat of league discipline, speak openly about their desire to be employed elsewhere, we expect management to adhere to the same standards. The door swings both ways when it comes to demonstrating loyalty and respect.”


Fair call, I'd say.
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Re: The Knicks Thread....

Postby mp3 on Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:02 pm

He may not of made the Isiah trades but things are just as bad if not worst. At least when Thomas ran the organisation the players had his back till the end, the knicks brought in a creditable coach in Larry Brown and Isiah let him coach the team his way but stepped in when Larry wanted Marbury traded.

The knicks record with Phil in charge is terrible his handle with the media is terrible his handle with the players is terrible and now to make things even worse the only good thing we have going for us (KP) fled the country and is sounding like he may bolt next summer when he's a RFA, yeah sure we can match but do you really want a player who doesn't want to be here? When in the history of the nba has that worked out for the best?

Phil needs to shut down his Twitter account and stop talking to openly to the press, it's at the point now where no FA will want to come here but I'd bet no rookie will want to be drafted here either.

The starters named us "Worst of the year" and I'd have to agree with that.
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