Dommy73 wrote:More importantly I think most of us were fairly constructive and civilized here.
Dommy73 wrote:OK, so I simply do not want to give up on the game. I return time and time again, I want to try and fix it as much as possible for myself.
Today I started tweaking sliders myself. A lot. That's something I haven't really done before, I usually tried game difficulties and some of the top downloaded sliders from the community, but I thought, what the hell, why not.
So I started new MyGM, playing as Cavs. As a base I used Crewe's sliders from OS. Tweaked some stuff I knew I didn't like from before. During the first game I was still tweaking some stuff, mainly buffing the CPU in the second quarter.
Misc settings:
- Game Speed - 60
- Shooting types - User timing
- Quarter Length - 12 minutes (this was big for me)
- Full playvision and having CPU coach calling plays on both ends (I think this is very important to why the game felt good)
Now onto the result of the first game:
Team comparison:
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I don't think there is much wrong in the numbers. Final score is definitely believable, the numbers seem pretty good all around. Only thing that is a bit weird are the fouls, but since I buffed the CPU, it was pretty fair. The first quarter was very one sided in that matter (before the buff).
Shot chart:
[ Image ]
Not many 3pt shots falling, most scoring done in the paint. Again, I consider that pretty good result. The attempts are there, but they were fairly well defended.
Box score CAVS:
[ Image ]
LeBron had monster game, Kyrie and Love did pretty much what they're actually there to do. Some bench players did not play because New York made very nice comeback attempt in the second part of 3rd and in the 4th quarter. Actually looked very similar to some Cavs-Knicks game I watched this season, so I'm fairly satisfied.
Box score KNICKS:
[ Image ]
Nothing jumps out at me as very bad, am I overlooking something? Like I said, I made sure to defend three pointers, so the poor shooting from deep should be caused by that.
I'll play some more games to see if this wasn't just a fluke, but the game felt good. I really think that having CPU call plays was very important to the flow of the game.
Dommy73 wrote:Yeah, but unless I do a video with the gameplay, the stats are best thing to show right now.
On the upside: So far, in the two games, no bullshit moving charges.
Like I said, I activated play calling and that improved the flow of the game a lot for me. There are issues and I think even I mentioned quite a few (or I at least agree with many things that were said here).
But the stats were huge issue for me as well. I just couldn't find solid settings to have realistic stats, it often ended with huge blowouts. I'm talking 150-90 and so on. That doesn't happen every game.
I Hate Mondays wrote:Dommy, can I get a link for those sliders made by Crewe? I want to give them a try. If they are on 2K share on PC, you could just give the name of the set.
I Hate Mondays wrote:So after I've seen your numbers, I've noticed you said you activated the playcalling for the CPU. Wasn't that on by default? Where did you make that tweak? Was it in the coaching section?
Dommy73 wrote:I Hate Mondays wrote:Dommy, can I get a link for those sliders made by Crewe? I want to give them a try. If they are on 2K share on PC, you could just give the name of the set.
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/n ... al-fg.html
But like I said, I did make some changes to them, like ramping up fouls, lowering 3pt tendency (still had Porzingis attempt stepback fadeaway 3pt like he's Curry - another piece of evidence that the game is optimized for Warriors in my opinion) and not giving CPU 100 blocking.I Hate Mondays wrote:So after I've seen your numbers, I've noticed you said you activated the playcalling for the CPU. Wasn't that on by default? Where did you make that tweak? Was it in the coaching section?
I don't think it's on by default. It is in the coaching settings, I have the offensive and defensive playcalling on auto now.
Dommy73 wrote:I have zone usage set to 1 out of 100 anyway, so it's man to man essentially always. I suppose it would switch back to man to man after some time automatically if I were to play zone...
hedop wrote:Tbh there is a lot more that sucks in this game. I know that the main issue is the gameplay itself. However that's an aspect of the whole game and if you really want to make a point you have to take the whole game into account which shows how truely shoddy the whole game has been produced.
It starts with really miniscule stuff:
1. The menu design is truely rubbish. Burrying the roster editor under option/features is truely stupid. Putting MyGM/MyLeague on one tab and forcing everyone to go through like 5 menus to get where you want to go is just maddening especially when you are, like me, someone who starts a lot of MyLeagues and MyGM's to try out rosters or certain setups.
2. Yes I know I need to update the game but can I not acknowledge that, finish playing my current game and then go back to the main menu without having the warning continuously displayed during the game? Also why do I have to go back? Why can't I select: sync game with upgrade or why isn't it enough to just finish the game and get back to the main screen of MyGM and MyLeague? Why do I actually have to choose a menu and then back out of it to get the update when I'm already on the main menu page???
3. Why is there still no proper roster editor? Why do I need an external program for it? I can't change age or birthday of legends without it, so it makes the ones they added (if they are on the older side) utterly useless for a longer MyGM or MyLeague run. Why can't I change exisiting playbooks and remove stupid plays so that they have no chance of being called? Why can't I create coaches, GM's and what not and am stuck with the rubbish they provide? Why can't I edit existing staff's rating without employing them first? Why can't I give players with unique cyberfaces headgear even though I can do exactly that in WWE 2k16 and WWE 2k17? Why (unless they are scared of lawsuits) can't we have a database for downloading teams or single players? Why are only the teams that are already in the game availabe for editing and not adding some? Why are single player players locked out of having access to the hundreds of legends that are apparently in the game but only for MyTeam? Why are there absolutely no name and city combinations available that the announcers will actually pronounce? Yeah you can name your team whatever, but none of the anouncers will say the name. So what use is it? Why is there no in game possibility to add new jerseys after a certain time? And why is there no editor option to do the same?
4. MyGM still carries the legacy issues it has had for years. The chemistry system isn't working so even a guy at the 12th spot in your rotation who gets 5 minutes a game will claiming a starting spot even though his position is held down by Klay Thompson and KD who both average 35 points a game? Why am I still accused of breaking my word for promising a player something, then doing it and then being accused of breaking my word 10 days later? Why does the trade finder still only find rubbish trades and any decent trade is restricted to you actually picking out players yourself and checking if the team that has the player would trade with you for him? Why are teams still willing to trade absolute core peaces of their teams for absolute rubbish. The Jazz have been trying to get rid of Gobert for 2 years now, usually the even throw in Favors and/or Hayward even though there is no implication that the team would ever do so in real life? Why are the Celtics constantly trying to offload Jae Crowder and Marcus Smart even though those players are starters and or high in the rotation and are regarded as untouchable for Boston? Why does my Team play in front of an empty building when I raise the ticket prices even though the concensus among fans is that it is a fair price and I have a 100% fan interest (I raised the price from when it was green to 5 dollars more expensive than green... wow what a raise) and why does that not change even when I win the whole league??? Why do I have to waist 10: Mind trick pitches on a 69 rated player to sign with me??? All those issues have been in place for ages. Also the injury bug to my knowledge has persisted from day one until now even though it was reported for ages.
5. In game: why of why can't I skip those stupic cutscnes right away??? The game is loaded and it says: press A to start game yet I still need to click and click again to get past that annoying pre-game show. Same goes for Halftime. I click and they skip like one line and then I need to click again and again for them to finally disappear. Why can't I switch it off at all? Why can't I skip timeout sequences and instead have to wait until the animation of them going to the bench is done? Why does the game not skip when I skip the commentators showing some ridiculous stat instead waiting for them to finish their lines and then waiting some more before the refs give the ball back? Is that soooo hard? Let me play and not waste time like the real NBA. Why on earth do I get foul calls on stuff where my player was like a metre apart from his counterpart? Why on earth do I constantly get shots drained into my face even though I'm like glue on that guy and have a hand in his face when he gets it off. It just drops in. Why does my manual controlled player attempt a steal even when I have defensive assisstant off and did not press a single button? Why does he attempt a steal after switching players when the press for the steal clearly came before I switched players?
6. Why is everything VC? What is VC for in MyGM? Why do I have to sit through cutscenes in MyCareer instead of skipping them? Why does it all have to be behind a paywall and so fucking expensive? Why do we need Archetypes in a day and age when it is precisely the unicorn player type who is the most sought after in the NBA: oversized point guard with handles, shooting and athleticism, small power forward or center with handles, passing, stroke and athleticism, massively tall powerforward or center with handles, footwork, passing, stroke and rimprotection, athletic, tall and longarmed wing with stroke and passing prowess, undersized two guard who can also run the point by virtue of being an athletic freak with a Steph Curry stroke. It's like playing in the 60's, 70's and 80's with this game. So you can either be Jerry West or Bob Cousy or Pistol Pete or Oscar but god forbid you wanna be Jason Kidd or Gary Payton or even better CP3 or Magic, Elgin Baylor or Larry Bird or Chris Mullin but god forbid you wanna be BronBron or the Greek Freak, Moses or Russell or Wilt but god forbid you wanna be Bill Laimbeer or KAT but you can be the Mailman or the Worm or Sir Charles but god forbid you wanna be Kristaps, C-Webb or Draymond. It's just stupid.
Yes in there own way all those players were unicorn too but that was 30 or 40 years ago. In today's NBA unless you have some type of offensive game AND Defense you are basically dead meat at Center unless your point guard is CP3. How many straight up defense centers have a starting job in the NBA with no offensive tools? The same goes for post scorers. That is seriously an archetype? Those guys claim they know about basketball because Scott "OG" was such an "OG" that he actually played basketball before he became an "OG" yet none of them seem to ever have read a single article about basketball or listened to a podcast. The straight up no defense post game center is absolutely dead which is why Sam Hinkie lost his job over drafting Okafor and not getting rid of him and that is why Milwaukee is shopping Greg Monroe like crazy. What about glass cleaner? That used to be a thing when Moses Malone was a young man without goggles and when Charles Barkley still had a moustache. That archetype is dead and buried. If you want to stick around a decent team you are EXPECTED to clean the glass. Haven't they noticed that the rebounding numbers get gaudier every season? AD, Draymond, Boogie, Drummond, Kristaps, Noel, Embiid etc. all the good big man basically throw 15 or 20 rebound games at each others head every week and even guys like Russel Westbrook and Harden regulary grab 10 rebounds a night while an unathletic guy like Curry still grabs like 4 or 5. How on earth can that be an archetype then. What you gonna grab 80 rebounds a game? And again: nearly no offensive game to speak off. Unheard of in the NBA today. Either you have to be extremely skilled in the low post or you have to at least have good hands to pass the ball on. Also Dirk's time is over. No one with a right mind takes a big man who can just shoot and nothing else anymore because the other teams will simply play you small and crush that big and slow dude with no defensive skills. It's also very rare to have guys who can only shoot that size. Enes Kanter can shoot but he can also put the moves on you in the post and fuck you up from the midrange. Same goes for Milsap, Horford, Porzingis, Love (who loves post play and rebounding) and others. It simply isn't an archetype anymore. So this whole system stinks and you have to waste VC on it and you have to sit through hours of cut scenes and practice for hours to get your free throw shot rating up....
Like I said. There is so much rubbish in that game from the ground up design wise that it is hard to say: it's the gameplay that makes this game suck. Yeah bodytypes suck and so do still not updated cyberfaces (check Bill Laimbeer ) and a lot of ingame stuff sucks but the whole product is shoddy so it's no wonder that the core of the whole game is rubbish too.
Dee4Three wrote:So when it comes down to it.. Here are the top 10 gameplay fixes that need to occur in NBA 2K18.
1. Heavy players - After the patches, the players feel heavy and hard to move around. The original game before patches the players were much lighter. So, heavy feeling players need to be fixed.
2. Slow motion dunks/layups - Not as bad on the original .exe, horrible after patches. Players do not go up for layups and dunks in slow motion in real life.
3. Slow Motion dribbling - Impossible for human beings to even dribble a ball that slow, it looks very unnatural.
4. Broken Defense: This has already been covered at length, but the team defense needs a complete overhaul.
5. Floating passes: Nobody throws the ball that slow in real life, in fact, the ball in real life couldn't even move that slow through the air.
6. Players losing the ball: Body blocks and body steals, where the offensive player just drops the ball or loses the ball, players are taught at a very young age to hang onto the ball tight and secure, not in NBA 2K17.
7. Roster signatures/attributes/tendencies: Overall just need to be more accurate, the user shouldn't have to go in a edit every team for accuracy.
8. Protected shots: Players who clearly have blue sky to get a shot off, being forced to fadeaway and brick shots. If you are going to have protected shots, make sure they activate when the defender is actually in the offensive players shorts. Or, just let us decide if we are going to fadeaway, I never liked the idea of protected shots to being with.
9. Outlet passes: Outlet passes sail over offensive players heads even when the offensive player is wide open down the floor, it's like these guys are playing middle school basketball and need to learn the fundamentals. If the defense is broken and that is why you are making the game play like that, that's not acceptable.
10. Forced Animations: Forced fouls, forced animations where your defender is made to slide over (Like skate over) into an offensive player for a foul.
Those are the top 10 gameplay issues that need to be fixed in my opinion, ill also be posting this in the wishlist for NBA 2K18 incase its not seen by 2k here.
bluejaybrandon wrote:Dee4Three wrote:So when it comes down to it.. Here are the top 10 gameplay fixes that need to occur in NBA 2K18.
1. Heavy players - After the patches, the players feel heavy and hard to move around. The original game before patches the players were much lighter. So, heavy feeling players need to be fixed.
2. Slow motion dunks/layups - Not as bad on the original .exe, horrible after patches. Players do not go up for layups and dunks in slow motion in real life.
3. Slow Motion dribbling - Impossible for human beings to even dribble a ball that slow, it looks very unnatural.
4. Broken Defense: This has already been covered at length, but the team defense needs a complete overhaul.
5. Floating passes: Nobody throws the ball that slow in real life, in fact, the ball in real life couldn't even move that slow through the air.
6. Players losing the ball: Body blocks and body steals, where the offensive player just drops the ball or loses the ball, players are taught at a very young age to hang onto the ball tight and secure, not in NBA 2K17.
7. Roster signatures/attributes/tendencies: Overall just need to be more accurate, the user shouldn't have to go in a edit every team for accuracy.
8. Protected shots: Players who clearly have blue sky to get a shot off, being forced to fadeaway and brick shots. If you are going to have protected shots, make sure they activate when the defender is actually in the offensive players shorts. Or, just let us decide if we are going to fadeaway, I never liked the idea of protected shots to being with.
9. Outlet passes: Outlet passes sail over offensive players heads even when the offensive player is wide open down the floor, it's like these guys are playing middle school basketball and need to learn the fundamentals. If the defense is broken and that is why you are making the game play like that, that's not acceptable.
10. Forced Animations: Forced fouls, forced animations where your defender is made to slide over (Like skate over) into an offensive player for a foul.
Those are the top 10 gameplay issues that need to be fixed in my opinion, ill also be posting this in the wishlist for NBA 2K18 incase its not seen by 2k here.
Just to play devil's advocate and spark some discussion, I think 2k sees your points 1,2,3, and 5 as necessary. The game is slowed down on purpose. While it doesn't necessarily make for an accurate basketball sim, most people on the forums are more hardcore fans then your general consumer. 2k is a business trying to push sales and if the game speeds up too much and becomes solely fast twitch reactions at the breakneck speed of a real NBA game, I think a lot of people may be turned off from that. The average fan wants to pick up the game and shoot around with their favorite player. They don't want to have to make quick passes to beat complex NBA defenses. While I do agree with your points wholeheartedly, its important to remember that 2k is trying to reach the largest demographic they can with this game. NBA 2k is no longer the basketball sim to NBA Live's arcade feel. 2k has become a mass produced, mainstream product (i.e. Madden). That kind of game trades realism for accessibility. Just some random thoughts.
bluejaybrandon wrote:Obviously competition in the marketplace is always beneficial to the consumer but does anyone think that a return of NBA Live will encourage 2k to adapt and move towards realism? Now that they've bastardized the basketball sim the way Madden has with football, I just don't see them switching gears when they can churn out more MyCareer accessories and Myteam card packs and make a fortune. Micro-transactions have completely ruined the sports genre for me. The argument is always well then just don't play that part, but it takes away valuable resources year-to-year on creating a realistic product. I think the ship has sailed on the truly realistic experience that majority around here crave.
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