2016/2017 Daily Discussion Thread

[Stress Fracture]

The ASG is gonna be a total wreck once Zaza gets in. Damn the NBA should return to the time it only had a list on who's allowed to be voted in.

[air gordon]

Relevance and interest is subjective though.

Maybe free agency affected this generations long standing rivalries.

IIRC the west was 3 team top heavy during the Bulls run... Similar to how it is now

Obviously the Bulls vs Knicks were awesome back then. The kings vs Lakers vs spurs vs suns vs mavs in the early 2000's were awesome also.

[Dee4Three]

Relevance and interest is subjective though.

Maybe free agency affected this generations long standing rivalries.

IIRC the west was 3 team top heavy during the Bulls run... Similar to how it is now

Obviously the Bulls vs Knicks were awesome back then. The kings vs Lakers vs spurs vs suns vs mavs in the early 2000's were awesome also.

Its not just about top heavy or not. It's about the flow of the game, the way the game was played, the players in those games and how offense and defense flowed. It was the caliber of the big men, the fundamentals.

[air gordon]

I can get on board with the big man comments

There were periods though in the 90's where the NBA stepped in to promote the free flow you speak of. Stern pretty much turned the NBA's back on the Detroit bad boys style of play. Riley's Knicks were slugfests, fratellos cavs specialized in slowing the game down, and the NBA instituted the 5 second back down rule when Jordan retired

[Dee4Three]

I can get on board with the big man comments

There were periods though in the 90's where the NBA stepped in to promote the free flow you speak of. Stern pretty much turned the NBA's back on the Detroit bad boys style of play. Riley's Knicks were slugfests, fratellos cavs specialized in slowing the game down, and the NBA instituted the 5 second back down rule when Jordan retired

I feel like the points you make are part of the reason it was so amazing. You would watch a game, and the teams had defined styles, defined grit, defined confidence etc. The Bad Boys did well in there own right winning back to back championships, and even instituted the Jordan rules which worked in its own right. The Knicks were so tough, anybody going down the Lane on Mason/Oakley/Ewing knew they were gonna get hit, or just shut down. The Pacers were finness (Also tough with Dale and Antonio Davis), you know you couldn't let them shoot, and you knew you couldn't let them fast break. Just in general, it was a much more enjoyable time to watch basketball in my opinion.

Teams had in and out offenses that were just devastating, like Olajuwon having to be doubled almost every play, and him kicking it out to shooters like Horry/Smith/Maxwell and later Drexler and also finding Drexler cutting. Robinson kicking out to Sean Elliot or Del Negro (later Person), Ewing kicking out to Starks/Greg Anthony/Derek Harper, Malone kicking out to Stockton/Hornacek/Russell, Barkley kicking it out to KJ, Majerle, Dumas/Ceballos, Shaq kicking it out to Penny, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, and later to Kobe, Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Mourning/LJ kicking it out to Kendall Gill, Dell Curry, Kemp kicking it out to Hersey Hawkins, Schrempf, etc etc etc. The game just flowed so much better, it was far more interesting watching off the ball, and just overall watching teams strategize against eachother.

[air gordon]

Posting up, wait for the double team to come, then kick out for 3... Is that really a nice game flow??

The year pippen, Charles, and dream were on the same team that's what happened and that was a bust and boring basketball to watch lol

The Sacto kings offense where the big men played pg had the best "game flow" IMO.

The D'antoni/Nash-led Phoenix Suns offense was impressive also

It's nice there are videos/podcasts available now of game strategies being illustrated/broken down. You get a better appreciation of the coaching involved and how some players are just terrible at certain skills

There sure was a lot of strategizing in the OKC vs spurs and Gsw vs cavs series last year. Who woulvehave known both pop and keep would be out coached

[Dee4Three]

The 98-99 Rockets were not a bust, they were NOT supposed to do that much, Hakeem and Barkley were far passed primes (35 and 36 years old), and Pippen was 33. The double teams were not coming often at all at that time, trust me. They did have Michael Dickerson (exciting slasher) and Cuttino Mobley. Also, you pointed out one team in the 50 game lockout season... They also finished 31-19, which is better than I even thought they would finish. And I didn't say that's what happened all the time, clearly it did not. I was saying that it happened and it was awesome, the amount of post players, the amount of players with all around games, far surpasses todays NBA in my opinion. That was just an example of one element, I never said all the time.

Also you picked one team in 98-99 that was aging, and said that was boring to watch. First off, they were not boring to watch if you really know basketball and appreciate it. Just like the many that say Tim Duncan is "Boring" to watch, or has a "Boring" game. Duncan just played the game the right way. For those of you who were not around to follow the NBA close in the 90's, and appreciate those games live, and really only know youtube highlights and really only followed todays game, you won't possibly be able to grasp how great the league actually was. I have been fortunate enough to watch the NBA all through the 90's, 2000's and now. And right now, is the weakest the league has been in my opinion. I am not saying it's all bad, I am saying it's the weakest its been.

And yes, that Nash team was fun to watch. I never said that it wasn't enjoyable to watch basketball. I also never said the mid-early 2000's weren't solid. I really enjoyed watching basketball during those times.

[[Q]]

Supposedly they've changed voting this year after zaza nearly got voted in this year to incorporate 25% of votes from players and media

I've felt they've always fudged the numbers to avoid embarrassing situations after they started accepting votes from Chinese fans so this is another way they can manipulate the vote with an excuse. Overall, I'm glad that they are starting to realize how fan voting isn't such a great idea

[Dee4Three]

Also to point out, Phil Jackson took A LOT of heat last year for comparing Steph Curry to Abdul-Rauf. He was very accurate, and I remember being puzzled by how good Rauf was in the 90's. Look at his release, and how he gets his shots, and how fast he gets his shot off. Curry is a two time MVP with that style in the league now, Abdul-Rauf was a GOOD player with that style in the 90's. Watch the whole video.

phpBB [video]

[Dee4Three]

Supposedly they've changed voting this year after zaza nearly got voted in this year to incorporate 25% of votes from players and media

I've felt they've always fudged the numbers to avoid embarrassing situations after they started accepting votes from Chinese fans so this is another way they can manipulate the vote with an excuse. Overall, I'm glad that they are starting to realize how fan voting isn't such a great idea

Yeah I agree, 100%. The fact that they are doing something about it is nice. Zaza starting in the all-star game would seriously bug me to no end.

[air gordon]

i never said all the time.

You pretty much did

like Olajuwon having to be doubled almost every play

The Rockets were a bust. They gave Pip that huge contract and had high expectations heading into the season. Barkley was one of the big reasons the 5 second rule was instituted. Pippen even complained/hated the offense because he was being forced to be a spot up shooter with Barkley and the dream hogging the touches. A hall of famer, named In the 50 greatest players, played with Jordan... Calling the iso post offense crappy. Just saying haha

I've been following the NBA since the 90's also. What gives lol . This isn't a pissinG contest

I didn't say anything about TD

[Dee4Three]

i never said all the time.

You pretty much did

like Olajuwon having to be doubled almost every play

The Rockets were a bust. They gave Pip that huge contract and had high expectations heading into the season. Barkley was one of the big reasons the 5 second rule was instituted. Pippen even complained/hated the offense because he was being forced to be a spot up shooter with Barkley and the dream hogging the touches. A hall of famer, named In the 50 greatest players, played with Jordan... Calling the iso post offense crappy. Just saying haha

I've been following the NBA since the 90's also. What gives lol . This isn't a pissinG contest

I didn't say anything about TD

I said that team wasn't a good comparison. And I stand by that, High Expectations for a 35 and 36 year old who had been battling injuries, and another player signed on the wrong side of 30, going 31-19, is NOT a bust. Plain and simple. You are using the 98-99 over the hill Rockets as a comparison to my statements? That is what makes no sense. Nevertheless, in the lockout season.

And I never said you mentioned Duncan, so I am not sure what you were saying there. I brought him up to make a point.

Either way, lets drop it. Because it's not going anywhere.

And by the way, I never said that Olajuwon got double teamed his entire career. So no, I didn't "pretty much" say that. Be mature. I mentioned that he got double teamed almost every play and had options to kick it out to Horry/Smith and later Drexler. I never once mentioned the 98-99 over the hill Rockets.

[air gordon]

So are you backing off your hyperbole comments? Potato potata.

So you had to watch games live in the 90's to enjoy and appreciate them? Were you watching Karl Malone and Stockton run pick and roll? Or Stockton running back picks for Malone?! Should I have had less fun watching the tape delay of the Bulls beating the blazers in the finals??

Was Kemp even a traditional back to the basket player?!

How much strategy was there in drawing up an iso play for Jordan?!

[Dee4Three]

Are you kidding me? Your questions are ignorant in themselves.

You are upset that I commented that the NBA nowadays is weaker, in my opinion (it's also my opinion about why you are lashing out, that opinion is based on the way you are lashing out). We went back and forth, and you had nothing to back up your points. You have your opinion, I have mine, and those will not deviate.

For the record, not once did I back off from my comments. Me saying that the 98-99 Rockets were over the hill, but not a bust, and still exciting for me to watch, is in NO WAY backing off from my comments. You look silly for even saying that. Anybody reading our back and forth who can think with a clear mind will say that I did not back off from my comments once. I have a deep appreciation for the way basketball was played at that time, the way the players approached the game, the talent in the post and on the wings, the talent at every position, the makeup of the teams, the mental game. I stand 100% by my comments.

I thought I was getting into a nice discussion about the NBA back in that time, and the NBA now. But it turned into something ridiculous. I feel like I'm talking about basketball with a brat. I'm sorry, but it's true.

[air gordon]

I am not upset actually and not sure why you would think that. I think today's game has its positives as well as it's flaws. Just like the 90's.

My questions are valid. Don't dodge them. You have this point of having to watch the games live to understand how great the game was then. That's just ridiculous

Ill give you the Rockets thing but they got their asses handed to them by the lakers. And that's coming from a pippen fan. It's hyperbolic to say Hakeem got doubled almost every time he got it. You may as well say all the time. Seriously

Did you watch him vs Ewing live and in the finals?! Would you say he was doubled almost every time?!

What about the rest of my questions?! Was Kemp a back to the basket post scorer?!

Specifically what great in game strategies from the 90's are you referring to?

[Dee4Three]

Air Gordon, it's over. It's not worth it. You have missed the entire point.

[air gordon]

How does LeBron James stack up against the great players from the 90's?!

[Book_Gazette]

Let us remind ourselves the game is different and the same from the 90's in certain ways

Let me talk about Korver to the Cavs, the Cavs have gotten even stronger with a 3 point master coming in. After looking at the Cavs beat the heavily stacked Warriors team, we can conclude they have a stronger defense and efficient shooting rhythm than they have. Having Korver at the 2 would be an easy punch for Kyrie and LeBron for a relief in case they can't get a shot from the inside. It will interesting to see them on the 16th vs the Dubs

[Andrew]

Memphis outscored Golden State 49-21 in the fourth quarter and overtime to rally for the win. Impressive.

[I Hate Mondays]

Calm down, whoever is afraid of Zaza being a part of the Allstar roster. Basically, even if he remains the 2nd most voted forward from now on, he'd still have to be a top 10-15 in the eyes of the media or the players to make the cut. Not gonna happen, sorry people from Georgia. But I totally understand the feeling. If the same voting system would've counted a bunch of years ago when Gheorge Muresan was part of the NBA (if anyone remembers him), he would've been exactly in the same situation as Zaza now. Literally, every romanian with some internet access would've voted.

[Lamrock]

Zaza probably won't make it to the all-star game now for the reason I Hate Mondays and probably others have said. It doesn't really matter if he does though - people think it's going to be so crazy having a role player play in the all-star game, but the novelty wears off after five seconds. Kyle Korver isn't much better than Zaza and he actually played pretty well when he made it in 2015.

I used to think that the media/coaches should decide the starters, but the all-star game doesn't really matter. If people want to see their favorites play, even if they weren't necessarily top 12 player in the conference for the first half of the season, that's fine. Not the end of the world if Wade gets in over Kemba Walker.

Now the All-NBA teams are different. First world problems of course, but having a bone to pick about James Harden not making any of the all-NBA teams is understandable.

[big-shot-ROB]

The Boston Celtics are, rigt now from my point of view, the 2nd best team in the east, but they need a side kick next to Isaiah. Someone who can create his own offense. They had all the game undercontrol with hustle plays and defense, but when DeMar heated up in the 4th, they had nobody else with Thomas bad shooting (2-7).
Surely that needed player could have been Avery Bradley, but we will never know until Raptors and Cs face each other again.

If they can pack up their rebounding issues and another iso-star in one player (ex: Cousins) they could take it to the next level. Brown (which will be good, but I don't think his potential is better than a more athletic Crowder) and Amir Johnson are two players that could go, but I am not sure if it will be positive if they have to give up either Bradley, Crowder or Smart.

[Stress Fracture]

How is Al Horford doing with the Celtics? Haven't really heard or read something about him in Boston.

[Phil89]

He didn't shoot that well against Memphis, but he helped OKC get an important win.

[big-shot-ROB]

How is Al Horford doing with the Celtics? Haven't really heard or read something about him in Boston.

Let's say he is been okay. He is a great piece, no doubt, his mobilty along with his ability to knock down mid ranges and threes gives a lot of defenses problems. He can't play powerforward despite he wants to play at the 4, his mobility is no enough to pair with modernday PFs but he suffers with Cs in the lenght department. Olynik is a great player to pair with him, his really mobile and is a smart player on the boards.

Some people still keep saying the Garden need s a top-10 player. Seeing how Thomas has been playing lately I would say we need a sidekick, dude is straight fire, and he is 5'9.