2016/2017 Daily Discussion Thread

[Andrew]

Here is the daily discussion thread for the 2016/2017 NBA season! While we don't want to get overly reliant on catch-all threads to the point where a section becomes redundant, a central thread for quick comments and discussions does have its place. By all means feel free to make other threads, especially when something particularly noteworthy happens, but if you just want to make a quick observation about something that happened in the NBA today, that's what this thread is for. If any discussions really take off, they can also be split off into their own threads.

[Andrew]

Richard Jefferson has as many dunks as LeBron James through 21 minutes. No wonder he decided against retirement, he's under the impression it's 2002.

[Andrew]

Chris Bosh may not be able to play this season, but at least he no longer has the most shameful flop in league history.



Come on, Iggy.

[Andrew]

Hell of a game for Simmons as the Spurs stun the Warriors.

[[Q]]

The only game I watched last night was Utah and Portland. Dame time at the end after Joe Johnson looked unstoppable

[air gordon]

kawai unleashed. that dude was awesome last nite.

[Andrew]

With his emergence over the past few seasons, it seems the Spurs have transitioned nicely into another new era without dropping off. Trust in that process.

[Andrew]

[Andrew]

Huge numbers for Anthony Davis to open the season: 50 points, 16 rebounds, 5 assists, 7 steals, 4 blocks. So close to the 5x5; he would've been the first player to achieve it with 40+ points. Came in a losing effort, though.

Russell Westbrook almost opens the season with a triple double, 32 points, 12 rebounds, 9 assists. Pretty competitive game. Joel Embiid is looking like he'll be worth the wait. I'd envisioned a Greg Oden type of situation, and while it's still early days, I'm thinking I was misguided on that point. 20 points, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocks in 22 minutes. He showed some pretty good moves and footwork out there, even knocked down a three-pointer.

[Phil89]

It always amuses me how tough guys like that act when they know that the players can't retaliate in any way. I feel embarrassed for his family.

The game itself was quite entertaining. The Sixers look much better than last season and I think they'll be a fun team to watch once Simmons and the other injured guys return.

[I Hate Mondays]

The sixers are my league pass team for this season.

[Dee4Three]

My Celtics pulled out the win last night, but I was a little surprised at the let down at the 3 minute mark. We were up by almost 20, and yes we were with the second unit. But we had a solid 5 or 6 plays straight of complete brain farts. Not putting adequate people in the backcourt during pressure, throwing passes away, taking quick shots that are contested, letting people like Bogdanovic and Joe Harris shoot open threes. While I was really intrigued for the first 45 minutes, the last 3 were slightly concerning.

How about Gerald Green and Jaylen Brown off the bench? Loved seeing Green show maturity, and Brown look comfy like an NBA Vet.

I feel like the turning point of the game though for the Nets was when they took Lin out right after he hit two threes. He literally had just sunk the second three from the top of the key (a few minutes into the 3rd quarter), and they ripped him out. The game was around 6 or 8 points I believe at the time. They didn't bring him back in until around 4-5 minutes in the 4th when they were down 20.

Why? He was playing sound defense, making plays at the rim/getting fouled, hitting shots. I'll never understand coaching moves like that. I could see if it was in the preseason where they were trying to see how certain players would perform at certain stages of the game... but wow.

If the Celtics were hitting the threes they normally do (They didn't shoot a good percentage), this could have been a huge blowout.

I watched the Thunder game after, and what a chip Westbrook has on his shoulder. He racked up the stats per normal. They escaped with a win because he didn't get really any help outside of Steven Adams. But... I have to admit... Joel Embiid is really really solid. Better than I thought. He has a bit of an old school post game, and he can face up/jab step and hit jumpers. And, he wanted the ball at the end of the game, which is HUGE. For the Sixers sake, I really hope he can stay healthy.

For the Lakers game, I can see what Walton is trying to do with his team. He's using GSW sets, sometimes I felt like I was watching the Warriors. He was letting Russell basically play like Curry, and Nick Young was given freedom to shoot whenever he has space. He was also having Julius Randle get the ball on the perimeter and make moves to the hoop (Like Draymond Green). I don't think the Lakers will do that well, but they will be a lot more exciting this year. Russell rubs me the wrong way, when he hit the three and a foul in the first quarter, and turned and said numerous times "This is my shit!, this is my shit!". I get it, you hit a few threes in a row, and you are pumped, but win something first.. and don't have the mindset that this is YOUR SHIT, it's your teams shit. They need to operate with the one team mindset. Maybe I am looking a little to much into that, but for some reason that bugged me. However, I will say something... The Harden at point experiment COULD fail. He racked up 17 assists, congrats... but the 7 turnovers were hard to watch. The Rockets also looked completely out of place on defense on so many occasions. They looked slow compared to the Lakers.... It hurts to say this, but I felt like the Lakers actually had numerous mismatches on the floor at any given time. Eric Gordon looked slow to me, and Ryan Anderson and James Harden have never been solid defenders.

Last thing, I feel bad for Anthony Davis. He is a beast, but they did a horrible job of building around him.. When your team has E. Moore getting a lot of minutes, you are in trouble.

[Lamrock]

Dee4Three, 7 turnovers is pretty much the status quo for Harden, regardless of where he plays. That was classic Pringles-ball though. Dropping 114 points in regulation, making it rain from beyond the arc, and losing to a likely lottery team. The Lakers were pretty fun to watch - hiring Walton might be the best move they've made in years. I see what you're saying about Russell, and with one controversy already under his belt I expect he'll continue to be a divisive player, but after the worst stretch of seasons in franchise history, it's good to get fired up in your home opener.

Also enjoying the league pass trial while I can. Watched some of the Wolves/Grizzlies game and came away very unimpressed with Andrew Wiggins. Hopefully he takes the next step this year, but we'll see

[Dee4Three]

Dee4Three, 7 turnovers is pretty much the status quo for Harden, regardless of where he plays. That was classic Pringles-ball though. Dropping 114 points in regulation, making it rain from beyond the arc, and losing to a likely lottery team. The Lakers were pretty fun to watch - hiring Walton might be the best move they've made in years. I see what you're saying about Russell, and with one controversy already under his belt I expect he'll continue to be a divisive player, but after the worst stretch of seasons in franchise history, it's good to get fired up in your home opener.

Also enjoying the league pass trial while I can. Watched some of the Wolves/Grizzlies game and came away very unimpressed with Andrew Wiggins. Hopefully he takes the next step this year, but we'll see

I won't argue any of your points for a whole week just because you referenced Mike D'Antoni basketball as "Pringles-ball"

He shaved the mustache, I was quite disappointed.

I think the Rockets will be fine as long as they do not pass GO, and do not collect $200.

[air gordon]

Easy to pile on the rockets defense but how about the lakers incompetence in defending the pick n roll? Were all of Capela's baskets dunks?! Defense turrible for both teams

Some hero ball by clarkson and surspingly strong play by the lakers 2nd unit got them to eek by

Ironically this lakers team should be on tv more than last years folly

[Andrew]

Clippers are still shaky in crunch time. Fortunately for them, the Blazers didn't quite have enough time to completely erase the double digit deficit with a late run, but it seemed like the Clippers were doing all they could to choke away the game. They'll have to sort that out if they're ever going to be more than a spectacular and successful regular season team.

[Dee4Three]

Clippers are still shaky in crunch time. Fortunately for them, the Blazers didn't quite have enough time to completely erase the double digit deficit with a late run, but it seemed like the Clippers were doing all they could to choke away the game. They'll have to sort that out if they're ever going to be more than a spectacular and successful regular season team.

I watched this whole game, and the Celtics/Bulls game. My thoughts:

The Celtics got beat 18 to 3 on Offensive Rebounds, Amir Johnson and Al Horford combined SHOULD be doing better than that. However, it seems other teams are beating the Celtics to the 50/50 balls once they clank off the rim. They had more shot creators than the Celtics, and that was the other difference in the game. You saw Butler shot creating, same with Wade, and Michael Carter-Williams was the X factor for a stretch, once again by being a shot creator. The Celtics had Thomas who was getting his own shot, but other than that.. nothing. Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder are not really one on one players, and offensively they have a pretty limited repertoire. Taj Gibson made a couple huge baskets right in the paint at the end of the game, that is unacceptable. Jaylen Brown had some growing pains at the end of the game there, but I give props to Brad Stevens for leaving him on the floor.

I would like to see the Celtics get out on the break more when they have Gerald Green/I.T./Brown etc on the floor. But, that would require the Celtics to force long rebound opportunities.... which really isn't happening because teams are hitting a lot of outside shots on them, and they are getting crushed on the boards. This Celtics team is young and fast, even when they go to the second unit, the lack of fastbreak points is a little concerning. Wade hit 4-6 Threes, last year he hit 7 threes TOTAL all year. Sometimes I get frustrated reading the articles on these games (local and national), because they are not mentioning many of the big picture issues that come with these teams. I havn't seen any articles talking about the Celtics lack of fastbreak opportunities, or the lack of shot creators, which to me are glaring weaknesses. They mention Wades threes, and the Celtics weak rebounding, but nothing about the other issues. In the recap for the Celtics/Brooklyn game (On any articles I read, and I read a bunch of the stories on that game), it wasn't once mentioned that Lin shouldn't have been taken out when he was, even though it was obvious to anyone that was watching that he shouldn't have been out that long. For the Clippers recaps, I didn't see the Plumlee impact remotely talked about accurately, and I didn't see any mention about him being taken out for that LONG stretch, when he was the motor for the Blazers. I also didn't see any conversation about the Blazers hectic offense in the fourth quarter. Sometimes I wonder if all these articles are rushed, or if the writer even watched the full game.

The Blazers game was tough to watch for a few reasons. However, it was a very entertaining game. Plumlee was the Blazers motor for huge stretches in the game, he did get a T, but it fired up his team. He had a dunk under the hoop in the 3rd quarter, and than they threw an alley oop to him, and he threw it down hard. He was also getting to all the 50-50 balls it seemed. Than, similar to the Brooklyn game vs the Celtics where they ripped Lin out when he was the best player on the floor, they took Plumlee out for many minutes in the 3rd quarter, and didn't put him back in until they were down 14 (95-81) midway through the 4th quarter. He wasn't breathing hard, he wasn't tired, he was just.... taken out... One of the things that frustrates me the most watching the NBA now is how the players are completely babied. It's always been an 82 game season, stop putting guys on the bench who are playing really well when they are NOT showing any signs of fatigue. Plumlee will never be a superstar, but when he is playing like that, keep the man in the game, otherwise the other team can go on a run. Another takeaway, Chris Paul gets away with way to much, and in big moments. Damian Lillard was running in a straight line down the middle of the floor, not swiping for the ball, and Chris Paul made it a point to not just run in front of Lillard to block his path (Which is perfectly fine to do), but jumping backwards into him with his butt sending Lillard crashing to the ground. It's a dirty play, that's not a basketball play. He was also bailed out at the end there when Napier was just running up the middle of the floor (This was a CRUCIAL possession), and Paul initiates the contact by plowing into Napier (turning left into him) and throwing the ball up towards the hoop. Paul goes to the line and hits two crucial FT's. He is one HELL of a player, but he is dirty. I don't mind crafty players, or veteran moves, but he just plays downright dirty sometimes. For the Blazers, I would have liked to see them show a little more maturity in that 4th quarter. They were playing 100 mph and not running anything. They made everything look tough. I didn't see hardly any off ball screens for Mccollum, even though he clearly had his shot going there for a small stretch. Instead of doing that, they decided to go with the easy route, and let Aminu keep shooting open shots (Which the Clippers were giving him).

Also to note: Crabbe has the potential to play a huge role for the Blazers if he can be consistent. To me, he is what Von Wafer SHOULD have been. They are the same type of player, but Crabbe has more confidence and hustles more. Harkless has shown dramatic improvement, it was nice to see him and Vonleh be aggressive. That team can really get up and down the floor. Ed Davis, as expected, didn't make much of an impact at all, he actually looked lost in most of the offensive sets. and defensively he was a pushover. Evan Turner seemed to get frustrated with himself after missing 4 or 5 makeable jumpers where he created space. He made some quality passes, but his assist tally was low because the Blazers laid bricks on those shots. I think Turner will be huge for them off the bench, but he needs to find that comfort zone that he had with the Celtics.

Either way, I liked that for the MOST PART, the refs were letting them play. It's nice to see that physical brand of basketball.

[[Q]]

I watched the LA/Portland game and my god the officiating was terrible for most of the game. No surprise that Lauren holtkamp was working

[Andrew]

I agree. CP3 is a great player, but he's also definitely a flopper, and that late play you mentioned was definitely a good example. It's the kind of bailout call that many of us will admittedly take if it goes in our favourite team's favour, but it really shouldn't be rewarded. There's a difference between being crafty enough to sucker in the defense for a foul, and initiating the contact with a flail to get a call.

[Phil89]

Looks like Westbrook and Anthony Davis are gonna put up some crazy numbers this season.

Can see both of them challenging for MVP if their teams win enough games.

[Andrew]

Both certainly have something to prove, and ample opportunity to post big stat lines. Definitely going to be in the MVP discussion.

[Patr1ck]

Damian Lillard was running in a straight line down the middle of the floor, not swiping for the ball

He came at an angle from behind Chris, and definitely went to swipe for the ball(and actually may have hit Chris on the arm or shoulder) and Chris stuck his butt out to increase the distance between Lillard and the ball and Lillard went with a superman pose taking himself out of the play, just like another Blazer who decided to started jogging to the backcourt during that same Clippers break.

[I Hate Mondays]

I hope I don't get shot in the head for saying this, but Westbrook is bad for the league right now. I love watching him play, he looks unhuman but basketball is a team game. It's not good for the entire OKC organisation and the entire league if a guy attempts 44 shots a game and also goes to the line around 12 times. He is the definition of hero ball.
That layup at the end of the OT though. I'll give him that.

[big-shot-ROB]

I am impressed by the brow's effort, but the Pelicans have to win some games if he wants to be in the MVP talk. Team around him is not the best one he could have, but I highly doubt an MVP trophy will be given to a player on a losing-record team.

Westbrook is the clear example why simple stats are misleading. I have seen numerous times people bringing his assists numbers when he is being accused of being a ball-stopper. I feel he suffers a little bit from the Rondo and Rubio illness: sometimes he will only pass the rock when doing it will assure him an assist. Rondo and Rubio are on another level of this of course.

I would like to see Westbrook find a balance between running the offense (even if they run simple sets) and him isolating and just blowing by the defender. He generates too much defense attention with his 1 on 1 ability, but his agressivenes sometimes is too much, thus leading into forced shots and turnovers.

[Dee4Three]

Damian Lillard was running in a straight line down the middle of the floor, not swiping for the ball

He came at an angle from behind Chris, and definitely went to swipe for the ball(and actually may have hit Chris on the arm or shoulder) and Chris stuck his butt out to increase the distance between Lillard and the ball and Lillard went with a superman pose taking himself out of the play, just like another Blazer who decided to started jogging to the backcourt during that same Clippers break.

I just tried to see if I could find video of it, and it wasn't on any of the games highlights. We obviously saw it a little differently, which is fine.

I think Lillard is a really good ball player, and did so much last year for this team... but in this game in particular he forced the issue and looked out of control a little to often.

Meanwhile, as much I don't appreciate the antics of Chris Paul, his maturity showed over Lillard in this game. He paced himself in a way that kept everybody involved.