Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 18

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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby StyxTx on Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:00 am

Andrew wrote:That's what the 20 key points are for, a concise summary.

I think there needs to be something immersive in Rising Star between games, though I'd prefer it to be basketball related: training, GM/coach meetings, that sort of thing. At the moment though, it's just a bit bare bones.


I was teasing. :)

Yes, basketball related stuff would be fine. Possible practice to earn SP, etc. I don't need "connections" or dates with some supermodel. GM/coach meetings would be great!

As long as they don't go down the 2k path.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Andrew on Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:44 am

Oh, for sure. I'm not a fan of being forced into dating and hanging out with friends in Grand Theft Auto, so I'm definitely not in favour in adding that stuff to the basketball games. :lol: But basketball and team related activities, and immersive elements that indulge in a little world building of the life of an NBA player would be good.

Definitely agree on the charging fouls where the defender jumps, that needs to be addressed.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Obey_Gamer on Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:27 pm

My official wishlist for NBA Live 17
Its my honor to do this every year now I'm back again to do this

1.Rebuild the Devs Team or Find Fresh new Game heads
EA let's be serious NBA Live hasn't been the same refuse to follow the ropes of 2k is a big mistake sometimes you have to learn from the best/rivals get deep basketball game heads out here who's willing to make a Sim basketball game this would be epic if EA Deva can finally go young

2.Gameplay/Mechanics/Graphics
NBA Live does have some very unique graphics but its time to turn it up a notch time to use the same brightness and texture of graphics 2k are using sometimes graphics does mean everything with that being said get a new engine like based thats similar to 2k's engine but make it your own style EA its time to take advantage . While that being processed grab some NBA Players and have them come in and do their Motion Capture for the Game from Player Movement to Dunks to Physical shot moments etc...... You get players like Lebron, Curry, Kobe, CP3, Durant,Etc.... I want this game Rebuild from the ground up!

3. Presentation
Bring in the Entire NBA on ESPN Crew with every game covered the same day the game happen show exactly what happened in the game in Nba Live 17 I want the entire realistic presentation ever! From Players pre- game warm ups to Mascots and cheer leaders to head coaches /the wire to after game players talking on the mic bring in the commentator on the court while a player is injured make it a live coverage or a breaking news make this so realistic!

4. MyCareer Like Mode
Name it MyLife or LiveCareer
Find a Movie Producer to set up a story mode where your player goes to high school college etc...... Make a plot twice to the story don't make it simple like 2k make it so realistic that the fans will love it!!!

5. Real Life DNA
Based on their stats and every minute of shit they missed and every free throw they've took should be in this game from Players emotion and players self esteem feel to the team whether their frustrated being on the team or love being a starter or being hated on the team for being cocky could change the way the player play and not to mention Make the Fans as realistic as you can make them stomp on floors clap like crazy get highly upset and cheer to throw the away team off! And even show mascots shooting t-shirts to the crowd and see crowds give players handshakes that would be awesome

6.Cover/Advertising the Game
Make this game so realistic that you guys can out this game on every commercial as possible and put those advertisments inside the game socks brand shoes and clothing brands inside the game have the fans vote for 3 Cover Art Lebron , Curry or Durant come up with ideas of the cover and make sure the cover looks very unique people are willing to purchase something that looks good.

7.All Star Weekend/ Roster Update
Bring back the entire All-Star Weekend
And Make Sure the Roster Updates automatically everyday

I Hope this is that year to make noise EA I'm very looking forward for new information about Nba Live 17 I hope some of my advice's gave you heads up
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby 22cedric on Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:52 pm

What is Needed in Nba Live 17 and Wants and Beyond/Focus via Prime 76

Implement and build upon that is what is needed for the NBA Live franchise to excel with new things provided however the past is what builds your future #Listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9zM7Xh ... e=youtu.be

Gameplay is the foundation and the actual pinnacle to make a game run properly. If the gameplay is not significantly good the rest of the game doesn't mean anything. Motion Capture is already being presented into the game but we need to have signature motion capture. There are signature styles in NBA Live but it's not a very big percentage hopefully that percentage does increase through time. Rules need to be installed and fatigue needs to be put back into play. Actual player movement, weight, strength, awareness that is significant signs of gameplay. We need to have a solid rating system to the point were it's not only going to emulate the actual player and their ability but also team styles. Animations everything from control and movement that needs to be polished where stuff is not erratic. Post moves needs to be implanted as well. Dynamic DNA needs to return as well. Rebounding needs to be respected with actual player movement with motion capture. The physics needs to be respected where there is not much warping and morphing. With the defense responsiveness on control left to right, backwards, forward. No more force field interaction that needs to be addressed and terminated. Weight and strength on the defensive end needs to be respected. Strength is respected in the post but not on the perimeter. Fouls on the defensive end they're not no fouls being called on guys that foul and that's where the fundamentals of defense are not respected because those fundamental practices are not there. With Dynasty mode bring back Dynamic season via NBA Live 10.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby StyxTx on Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:06 am

These are issues in Rising Star, which is all I play. I am an overall 90 SG.

1: Charging calls. I just finished game 1 of the finals and out of all the charging calls I've seen over the entire season only one I would consider legitimate, and that was borderline. In the past seven games, I have had teammates called for charging twice against defenders who were actually in the air.......no feet touching the floor. I watch the calls on replay from all angles. These calls have to stop. These charging fouls being called against defenders who are moving are fouls on the defense and need to be called such.

The funny thing is when a player does actually get set to take a charge he ends off getting knocked on his butt and called for the foul. But players who are in the air or running stride for stride with the person they are defending.....they can draw a charge?

Also, when a defender blocks a ball handler out of bounds that is a blocking foul. Over the back fouls have to be added. Too many times people jump for a rebound over the back of the person in front, and no foul gets called.

As long as I'm on the topic of fouls, more fouls need to be called in the games. As a team, I see an average of 7-10 called on each of the teams in games I play out. I've seen as few as 3 called. Looking at the team stats page it shows all teams, except mine, average 18-20 a game which is a lot closer to realistic. We average around eight per game and teams we play against average about eight as well. I'm a 92 at drawing fouls and pretty much live off the drive to the basket, but I rarely can draw more than 3-4 fouls in a game. It kind of messes up the strategy of attacking a certain player to see if you can get them into foul trouble. I've never seen anyone foul out.



2: If we are supposed to receive a game score then the entire scoring system HAS to be fixed. It is so inconsistent, ie, one time I'll get credit for a pick allowing a teammate to score then the next time I don't.

Also, when I am defending someone, and a teammate leaves their player, and that player gets a pass and is ready to shoot, the nonsense of that player suddenly becoming my responsibility regardless of where I am on the floor, or it would result in me leaving my current opponent wide open. Why should it be my man if there are other players closer to the shooter than me? Sorry, but if my teammate goes wandering off to God knows where that isn't my doing. It obviously isn't a switch if no one is coming to defend my current assignment.

I've had cases where the guy I'm defending runs across the court along the baseline, the center stays on his man, we get to the other side of the key headed for the corner THEN for no reason what so ever the center leaves his guy and starts toward me and my opponent, leaving his opponent wide open for a quick pass and score, but somehow that is my fault. I get penalized. Not acceptable.

I had an instance where the semi-circle was around guys in both corners and the one at the top of the 3 point arc at the SAME TIME. What? Tell me which one of those three I am supposed to cover!

Along those lines, we should get credit for good defense if we leave our guy to help a teammate and we play a role in that player missing. I've seen instances where I collapse on a player who broke free to the basket, and no one else was there but me and was able to prevent the score but got no credit, just because that wasn't my assigned player, I guess. It doesn't matter. I prevented the score.

Being penalized for wide open shots being allowed when the replay positively shows my hand right in the guy's face. But if I take a shot with a defender there or even a bit farther from me I get penalized for a bad shot, a defended shot. What? How can it be a well-defended shot when I'm shooting but an open shot when I'm defending? Inconsistent. I will add I am a 99 on ball defender and an 86 shot block/contest so it isn't due to me having poor defensive ratings.

These are just a few examples, but they happen too often. The entire scoring system has to be reworked.



3: We HAVE to be able to choose what kind of passes we throw, lob, bounce or alley opp (which is already there). This nonsense of throwing a pass, be it freestyle, icon or whatever and the computer decides we are going to throw it into our defender's feet or chest, or it will do a soft lob to the defender who is 2 feet away. Nonsense. Has to be fixed.


4: Goaltending must be added to the game. There are too many instances where what should be a goaltending call is referred to as a block. Um, no it isn't.


5: Must have injuries in played out games. It is unfair when playing a rising star season, which we go against opponents who have injury issues while my team is 100% injury free.


6: Minutes per game. It is utterly ridiculous for me to be spending the entire 2nd half on the floor when we are 40 points up on an opponent. The other starters are getting 27-32 minutes in those games; I'm getting 40-43. Come on, seriously? Our minutes should be in the context of the situation or, at the very least, add an option to set the rotation to be used based on game situation.

One other thing that isn't major but needs to be looked at is the end of game situation where there are less than 24 seconds left when the winning team gets the ball, and they go down for the last shot. Sorry, but that doesn't happen. They run the clock out. Geez, you're winning by 40 points and want to get the last shot? Poor sportsmanship.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby mp3 on Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:45 am

Dynasty mode

* Allow users to create/share/import draft classes into dyansty mode.
* Add a transaction and injury screen.
* Allow users to practice with the team just like you can from the main screen.
* Add player of the week awards.
* Be able to sign players to 10 day contracts
* Have players sign for realistic amounts such as the vets min instead of having to use the MLE.
* Bring back the allstar weekend such as the dunk contest and even the skills challenge.
* Be able to hire and fire coaches.
* Add real assistant coaches.
* Bring back multi team trades.
* Allow teams to trade more than 3 players or picks
* Improve trade logic that isnt based upon player rating alone and contracting matching, ie salary dumping while sending draft picks.
* Add a type of reward system for developing players as they up there ratings, (like 2k has its badges and like Live used to do)

General fixes

* Put full roster editing back in the users hands including player rating editing, tendencies,contract editing, rotations, Change jersey numbers, Bio and full editing over accessories.
*Allow rosters to have 13 players active on the roster instead of 12.
* Bring back Create a player
* Bring back bounce passes, bank shots and floaters.
* Add in game injuries during gameplay.
* Improve defence in the paint to stop the offensive player being slow to react or being bounced out the way.
* Fix rebounding with player awareness to where the ball is and response times.
* Be able to fine tune the sliders point by point instead of 10 at a time (or at least have it 5)
* Add "Game Speed" and "Screen Strength" sliders.
* Bring back "Own the paint" and fix the awkward post game, See Demarcus Cousins.
* Having all rookies or at least 90% of all players real faces in the game for the release date.
* Do away with all theses place hold faces, i understand you cant scan every player but the old nba lives would have a pretty close created player than just some random
* Add more sig shots to the game to add more of a "real feel"
* Improve post animations to look less awkward while trying to phase out high arching hook shots.
* Improve the way players run animations wise so they dont look stiff and all running in the same motion at the same time, maybe add afew different body types running.
* Bring back Live on the PC
* Keep the play calling system but hire a coach to add more plays to the playbook, also fix the play calling bug when pressing "L1" in the front court sometimes the display disappears.

Presentation

* Add a 3rd commentator or sideline reporter to keep the commentary fresh while adding alot more content.
* List ALL heights and weights in feet and lbs instead of CM and KG.
* Allow users to zoom in and create custom camera angles.
* Bring back more of the authentic arena sounds that you hear in different citys such as on made free throws, 3's and make winning teams arena louder.
* Just to echo what i said earlier about adding more sig shots and looking at making the players run differently and in different ways would help get that real look of an nba game.

Beta testing idea

And to end my wishlist i have an idea on how the EA team can improve there game this summer with the help of the community, my idea is kind of based on the community event in Orlando that they fly people over such as our very own Andrew and its also based on what another EA Title did "Star Wars Battlefront" by allowing people to download a beta test on the ps4 and xbox's.

Real nba live heads would get the chance to download different parts of the game at different stages and would be asked to give detailed feedback on what works and what doesnt why also finding out and fixing bugs so there is less "out of the boxes" hassles.

I got this idea from Jon when he replied to a thread about a Rollercoaster building game thread on this forum in which he said that the people making the rival game where looking to charge a fee to be a tester to only attract serious testers like what i think most of the community would be and i think they would be able to sort a way of having everyone sign a non discloser too.

Also they could do this and do away with the Demo
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Andrew on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:57 am

I definitely like the beta idea, especially if they don't have the budget to fly me in again this year!
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby StyxTx on Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:50 pm

mp3 wrote:Dynasty mode


* List ALL heights and weights in feet and lbs instead of CM and KG.


Isn't there a setting in setup someplace that allows you to choose how to display it? Mine is in feet and lbs.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby mp3 on Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:03 am

StyxTx wrote:
mp3 wrote:Dynasty mode


* List ALL heights and weights in feet and lbs instead of CM and KG.


Isn't there a setting in setup someplace that allows you to choose how to display it? Mine is in feet and lbs.


Outside of the US and Canada i guess its listed in CM and KG
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Andrew on Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:44 am

Yeah, there's no in-game setting. It changes according to region, which bugs me too. I grew up with the metric system, but when it comes to the NBA, measurements should be imperial. It detracts from the presentation, and if they bring back Create-a-Player - as I hope they do - it's going to be annoying doing the conversions.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby mp3 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:44 pm

Some great ideas here on how to make better use of the ESPN presentation.

Sorry for posting a video in the wishlist thread.

phpBB [video]
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:30 am

I have been playing Live/2k (and other basketball titles) since the Early 90's. From Double Dribble, to NBA 2k16, I've seen it all. I have a lot of Nostalgia with NBA Live (I played multiple seasons with EA sports NBA Showdown before Live 95, lots of Nostalgia with EA Sports in general), I played the series religiously all the way up until 2004, that's when 2k officially took over for me. Lives gameplay couldn't even hold up to NBA Inside Drive for XBOX (any version of Inside Drive), and the player models and animations just fell behind. Multiple users for a dynasty was also taken away from us, which was a huge draw for those who still play locally and do drafts or just want to go head to head in a season (or play on the same team). Legends were taken out of use in the main game (Legends are no longer in the free agent pool, and no longer are there decade Teams). The PC version was taken away, which sales would have been MUCH better for than the console version, I am perfectly aware of how popular the PC version could be because of all the conversations on here and modding capabilities. Because of all this nostalgia, and I would say experience with basketball video games in general, here are my recommendations for improvement, and things that should be kept:

Improvements:

1. Roster editing: I haven't played a game with less roster editing capabilities since Tecmo Super NBA Basketball. Im not saying go nuts like 2k and let us edit every in and out of a player, but allow us to do trades, sign players, save our own rosters, edit attributes or tendancies if possible, and maybe the signature shooting animations.

2. Represent the history of the game the right way: We don't need all the classic teams, in fact some of those in 2k are annoying for console because they have so many fake players on the end of the bench. Not everybody plays Ultimate Team, we would like to have access to some classic players to use in Exhibition, or in a season/dynasty. The players in Ultimate Team obviously signed contracts to be in the game, they approved that. So that obstacle is out of the way. Whether it be a legends pool like old school Live, or all decade teams, give us a semblance of NBA history that we can use.

3. Local multiplayer Dynasty/Season: Why this was taken away is beyond me, some of the greatest times that I have had, or have heard about, is with local multiplayer Seasons. Stories of throwing a control across the floor, or stories of celebration, its a beautiful thing. We live in an era where everything is being pushed to be online, but a lot of people still yearn for the classic experience of two player local play. Being in competition with a friend for season awards and best record is flat out awesome. This doesn't need to be complicated, it can be the same type of dynasty mode you have... just with up to 4 players allowed.. and with the option to do a FIXED or SERPENTINE Draft where the player has to option to choose the draft order. Having this option would help kids who are younger and just want to play locally with a sibling, or a family who maybe doesn't have a strong internet connection and needs to play locally. This is still a big niche that you folk should embrace to help sales.

4. PC Version: People are STILL rocking old school Live 2000 for PC, not just modding either, playing it. I see new screenshots of mods and gameplay of PC NBA Live 06 as well. Even if its the exact same version you put out on the console (which is what 2k does), its a huge market that I believe would impact your sales bigger than 1 through 3. People with lower end PC's even download 2k16 and play it on lower settings. PC gives us the ability to share more of Live as well, yes the consoles offer sharing capabilities, by the PC user is more fluent on the message boards and in the community. This game/series would get a huge leg up with PC screenshots, videos, etc... even just off of NLSC.

5. Get rid of your youtube hype guy, he makes the series look foolish. Flight is unrealistic, and doesn't promote any real excitement for the game. You need someone else who is going to connect with people. The only person Flight could connect with are teenie boppers who don't have enough money themselves to go out and get the game themselves anyway. He may be a good kid, but he is a horrible pitch man for Live.

6. Gameplay animations: I get it, you won't go away from the dribble stick. And you know what, it's not bad. We know you don't plan on drastically changing the animations engine, and that's fine, we get that as well. But atleast make the animations in this engine smoother, herky jerky hook shots and jump shots that have a strange hitch in them just destroy the realism and flow of the game. Some of the layup animations still look like early 2000's live, players want to go to the hoop and feel the realism. Post hook shots look silly still, with a robotic looking motion. Crossovers and step backs need to be more pronounced and create a little more space. Basically, fix the herky jerky animations and make the "moves" more pronounced and you are in business.

Keep:

1. The players size in relation to the court: The spacing on Live is just awesome, it's very realistic. I love running a play (when players move right) in the half court on this game, because of the spacing.

2. The body types: Please keep these, my brothers and I joke around that some of the 2k players have a "gumby" look to them. Even NBA 2k14's body types are better than NBA 2k16. The best thing about the live body models is you feel like the players have their own identity with them. I also love the details on the muscle.

3. Lighting: The lighting is far better than 2k, and creates a real NBA atmosphere. Slightly better progressive sweat would look cool and add to it.

4. Atmosphere in general: Love it, you created a real NBA experience in this regards. I like the crowds reactions, they are loud and into it.

5. Close up free throw camera: This may seem like a small thing, but its great. When someone goes to the line the camera goes right up close to the player, and the ESPN stats show. 2k took this away in 2k16 and now the camera is much further away and you cant appreciate the realism as much.

6. ESPN presentation, yes even Jeff Van Gundy: Sometimes things are repeated in the game, but that's expected. I love the ESPN presentation, from the tip off to the post game. It beats 2k by a mile. The halftime show and post game show are perfect. NBA 2k thought they did a great thing by adding Ernie/Kenny/Shaq, but the Pre game/halftime/post game is still just sorely lacking in substance. I skip it on 2k, I watch the whole thing on live.

In conclusion, I hope you read this, I was made aware that you folks at EA Sports are paying attention to these forums. If you have any questions you can PM me. I want Live 2017 to bring back what was so great about the franchise back in the day. This is coming from someone who still religiously plays NBA 2k.

Thank you,
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby StyxTx on Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:04 am

I don't know why so many gaming companies ignore PC. They claim PC's are on the way out but last time I checked, Steam has 125 million users. I guess people who think PC gamers are going away is because the PC game shelves in stores are empty. There are plenty of Steam gift cards though.

But like so many stores that are going under, it isn't because demand for a product isn't there, it's that it's being sold in another market, on-line.

I have a PC, PS4 and Steam Machine. The consoles are strictly for games I can't get on PC but if there is a game that I can get on any platform, I get it for the PC. Graphics are better for one reason.

Considering the low sales EA had for Live this year, they would be smart to put out a PC version also. It's really the only way they will be able to eventually compete with 2k. 2k does have a PC version.

Companies that don't put out PC games are really not tapping into a huge market which could come back and bite them in the long run.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby mp3 on Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:43 am

I think with the PC and today's graphics the PC requires a high spec and most rigs are different which means the devs run into so many problems that the ps4/xbox don't get because we can't change our set ups and they are all the same, I think there should be a PC game but it hasn't being smooth Sailing with 2k on PC either.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:18 am

StyxTx wrote:I don't know why so many gaming companies ignore PC. They claim PC's are on the way out but last time I checked, Steam has 125 million users. I guess people who think PC gamers are going away is because the PC game shelves in stores are empty. There are plenty of Steam gift cards though.

But like so many stores that are going under, it isn't because demand for a product isn't there, it's that it's being sold in another market, on-line.

I have a PC, PS4 and Steam Machine. The consoles are strictly for games I can't get on PC but if there is a game that I can get on any platform, I get it for the PC. Graphics are better for one reason.

Considering the low sales EA had for Live this year, they would be smart to put out a PC version also. It's really the only way they will be able to eventually compete with 2k. 2k does have a PC version.

Companies that don't put out PC games are really not tapping into a huge market which could come back and bite them in the long run.


Precisely... Its the whole "If I cant see it right in front of my face, its not happening". PC games are still very popular.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Andrew on Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:17 am

PC gaming is still going strong, but sports games on the PC have always been a niche market. Basketball gaming itself is a niche interest, so when you talk about PC basketball gaming, you're talking about a niche of a niche. It's a smaller audience, which unfortunately makes it harder to justify the time and resources for developing a port. The PC gaming market in general may still be huge, but in terms of basketball gaming, not so much. Steam may have over 100 million users, but that's not 100+ million people who are interested in playing basketball games.

I'm definitely in favour of NBA Live returning to PC, and I've made my thoughts on that known to my contacts at EA Sports (also being sure to mention modding at the same time). However, their ability to compete with 2K doesn't really come down to the PC platform, because that's not where most of the userbase is. I absolutely think they should try to get back into the PC market, but I also understand the reasons that are getting in the way. It comes down to justifying the time and effort in producing the port, and focusing on making the game better before expanding into other platforms.

The biggest problem in developing games for the PC platform is the lack of standard hardware. PCs can be more powerful than consoles, but not everyone has a top of the line gaming rig; more to the point, not everyone understands that. Consider the people who are still wanting to run the latest versions of NBA 2K on dual-core systems from 2007, or are getting by with middle-of-the-road GPUs and complaining about performance, despite their hardware not being up to the task. Even if a majority of the userbase does have a suitable PC, there's the challenge of having to support different hardware, not to mention users doing things to their PC that interfere with its performance.

Again, I would like to see NBA Live return to the PC, and I don't disagree that it would find a loyal fanbase that could do some great things with it, if we can mod the game. But there are some unfortunate realities that we have to acknowledge here. Beyond the technical challenges, basketball games do not have the widespread appeal of other genres and series like Fallout, Grand Theft Auto, Assassin's Creed, and so on. Even then, there have been problems with the PC ports. It's an uphill battle, but hopefully we can get a PC version of NBA Live again, at some point.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby StyxTx on Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:57 pm

mp3 wrote:I think with the PC and today's graphics the PC requires a high spec and most rigs are different which means the devs run into so many problems that the ps4/xbox don't get because we can't change our set ups and they are all the same, I think there should be a PC game but it hasn't being smooth Sailing with 2k on PC either.


That is true but losing that much of a market.....sounds like a bad business model.

One of the major drawbacks with consoles is the lack of mods. This is another strong argument for PC. Consoles games are pretty much "what you see is what you get".

As for 2k, it isn't smooth sailing on PS4 either. Don't even get me started on them. :roll:
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby StyxTx on Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:09 pm

Andrew wrote:PC gaming is still going strong, but sports games on the PC have always been a niche market. Basketball gaming itself is a niche interest, so when you talk about PC basketball gaming, you're talking about a niche of a niche. It's a smaller audience, which unfortunately makes it harder to justify the time and resources for developing a port. The PC gaming market in general may still be huge, but in terms of basketball gaming, not so much. Steam may have over 100 million users, but that's not 100+ million people who are interested in playing basketball games.

I'm definitely in favour of NBA Live returning to PC, and I've made my thoughts on that known to my contacts at EA Sports (also being sure to mention modding at the same time). However, their ability to compete with 2K doesn't really come down to the PC platform, because that's not where most of the userbase is. I absolutely think they should try to get back into the PC market, but I also understand the reasons that are getting in the way. It comes down to justifying the time and effort in producing the port, and focusing on making the game better before expanding into other platforms.

The biggest problem in developing games for the PC platform is the lack of standard hardware. PCs can be more powerful than consoles, but not everyone has a top of the line gaming rig; more to the point, not everyone understands that. Consider the people who are still wanting to run the latest versions of NBA 2K on dual-core systems from 2007, or are getting by with middle-of-the-road GPUs and complaining about performance, despite their hardware not being up to the task. Even if a majority of the userbase does have a suitable PC, there's the challenge of having to support different hardware, not to mention users doing things to their PC that interfere with its performance.

Again, I would like to see NBA Live return to the PC, and I don't disagree that it would find a loyal fanbase that could do some great things with it, if we can mod the game. But there are some unfortunate realities that we have to acknowledge here. Beyond the technical challenges, basketball games do not have the widespread appeal of other genres and series like Fallout, Grand Theft Auto, Assassin's Creed, and so on. Even then, there have been problems with the PC ports. It's an uphill battle, but hopefully we can get a PC version of NBA Live again, at some point.


A large part of marketing isn't just what the current customer base is, it's about potential customers. There are 120 million potential customers out there through steam. Of course, not all will buy in, but it's the potential for growth that all businesses look at. If they don't they are doomed. If you don't exhibit the product then, obviously, no one will purchase.

What is sinking a lot of places now, like Radio Shack, is the inability to adapt. So many places have gone out of business or severely reduced their workforce due to remaining static. You have to keep trying to grow and that means getting into every possible customer base there is.

I really don't see where the people at Live have any option. If they don't tap into that market, like 2k is doing, they are sunk.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Andrew on Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:00 pm

Realistically though, it's not 120+ million potential customers. Again, basketball gaming is a niche interest, and PC basketball gaming is a niche interest within a niche interest. These figures offer a good approximation of the size of the PC basketball gaming audience: around 165,000 (legal) users worldwide, compared to over 5 million on PS4 and X1 combined. That's the unfortunate reality when it comes to the PC market, at least in terms of basketball gaming. It's certainly different for games with bigger audiences, like Fallout, GTA, and so on.

2K's success doesn't come from releasing a PC version (though we're certainly glad that they at least do). By the numbers, the PC market is not vital to the success of NBA Live or NBA 2K, because that's not where most of the userbase is. The PC basketball gaming audience is pretty much as big as it's likely to get; it's not as though basketball games on PC are a recent thing, after all. Some of those 165,000 people may double-dip given the chance, some might switch to NBA Live, and some new users (including lapsed Live fans) might jump on board. But based on sales figures, active users, and so forth, history suggests that figure isn't going to come close to challenging the number of users playing on console.

Like I said, there is a very loyal and enthusiastic niche of the basketball gaming community playing on PC - of which we're obviously a part - and I would like to see EA get back into the game in that regard. I really hope they do, and again, I've made my case to the people I know there. The numbers are what they are though, and they don't support the idea that the PC platform - for all its benefits - is the key platform to focus upon. I'm not saying we should stop asking for a PC version, we should absolutely keep doing that. It's just that we need to keep a few unfortunate facts in mind in regards to the PC platform.

As an aside...who actually tagged NBA 2K16 on Steam with "Psychological Horror"? I mean, there are some dark parts of MyCAREER, but it's not that brutal. :lol:
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:28 pm

I agree with a lot of what Andrew is stating, but last couple points I would like to make...

This COULD BE, depending on sales, the last Live. They were on a contract to make this Live, but after this year they can just drop the series. We don't want this to happen. A part of me saying a PC version is needed, is simply because this is an all out year for Live. They need to lay down all the stops to compete, will they get close in sales, HELL NO. But do they need to ramp up their own individual sales significantly, YES. Even if it means spending more on the back end to make the product a little more special, and more accessable to everybody. Instead of taking features AWAY (Like they seem to do every year), add features and platforms that will gain them a greater audience.

The early prep is crucial as well, letting videos leak of the game in development stages, or demos leak in the development stages hurts sales. Because regardless if you tell the consumer that its a product in its infancy, they will watch the video and go "Here we go again, Live will be crap", or "Live wont compare to 2k". They need better promoting in the early stages, starting early summer, and to WAIT until the product looks and feels good until anything gets shown.

Just my take...
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Andrew on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:01 am

As far as I'm aware, the intention is to continue the series beyond NBA Live 17. However, I do think they need to move the needle and make a big impact this year.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby StyxTx on Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:23 am

Andrew wrote:Realistically though, it's not 120+ million potential customers. Again, basketball gaming is a niche interest, and PC basketball gaming is a niche interest within a niche interest. These figures offer a good approximation of the size of the PC basketball gaming audience: around 165,000 (legal) users worldwide, compared to over 5 million on PS4 and X1 combined. That's the unfortunate reality when it comes to the PC market, at least in terms of basketball gaming. It's certainly different for games with bigger audiences, like Fallout, GTA, and so on.

2K's success doesn't come from releasing a PC version (though we're certainly glad that they at least do). By the numbers, the PC market is not vital to the success of NBA Live or NBA 2K, because that's not where most of the userbase is. The PC basketball gaming audience is pretty much as big as it's likely to get; it's not as though basketball games on PC are a recent thing, after all. Some of those 165,000 people may double-dip given the chance, some might switch to NBA Live, and some new users (including lapsed Live fans) might jump on board. But based on sales figures, active users, and so forth, history suggests that figure isn't going to come close to challenging the number of users playing on console.

Like I said, there is a very loyal and enthusiastic niche of the basketball gaming community playing on PC - of which we're obviously a part - and I would like to see EA get back into the game in that regard. I really hope they do, and again, I've made my case to the people I know there. The numbers are what they are though, and they don't support the idea that the PC platform - for all its benefits - is the key platform to focus upon. I'm not saying we should stop asking for a PC version, we should absolutely keep doing that. It's just that we need to keep a few unfortunate facts in mind in regards to the PC platform.

As an aside...who actually tagged NBA 2K16 on Steam with "Psychological Horror"? I mean, there are some dark parts of MyCAREER, but it's not that brutal. :lol:


Ok, well as a marketer, I have always tried to expose my products to every possible potential customer, whether I personally felt it would have good results or not. That's only common sense. As I said, if the product isn't offered, no one will buy. If you have a PC user who doesn't own a console, and there are many, there is no way he is going to buy the game. It's not there to be bought.

Another thought on that. I do have a PS4 but I won't buy NHL or Madden, as much as I like those games, because they are not available on PC. Fallout 4 is available on everything but I have the PC version. There is a PC market with people who feel like I do. We just prefer the PC. I know I spent a lot of money on my PC making it top-of-the-line game ready, and I did that after buying PS4, just because I prefer using the PC. It's a lot more convenient to have everything centralized so I don't have to bounce from one console to another. Believe it or not, I have zero games on my steam machine and only 2 on the PS4. I have 18 on my PC which are all available either for Steam Machine or PS4. Most of my PC games come from Steam though. Yeah, I wasted money on the consoles but there was a reason I bought the steam machine. But I was able to finally get the game to work on my PC without crashing all the time so now I play it on PC.

But to think out of 120 million people there isn't a big enough group of people who would purchase is just cutting your own throat. That is a defeatist attitude. How many is or is not big enough? To me, if I sell one thing in a particular marketing area, that's one sale I wouldn't have had otherwise. Of course 2k doesn't survive off PC sales, but those are extra sales they wouldn't have gotten otherwise and they could use that money to pay some Hollywood director to create an awful video.

So out of that 120 million (and growing), exactly how many does EA feel will not buy the game? They can't give an answer to that because they don't know. They are giving up before they try. But if they continue to market only to console and their sales number remain as low as they are, no one to blame but themselves.

The purpose of business is to make money, and you do that by getting your product to as many potential customers as possible. Their console game isn't selling that well, so what would be the next logical step? This is a clue to me they aren't going to continue on much longer.

One thing is certain when you're developing a product, you need money to do it. The more you have the more you can develop. All of this is so basic and logical. You have to put your product into the same markets that your competition is in, whether YOU think it will be successful or not, or you will fail.
Simple as that. You can't know how it will work out until you try. No company will gain ground on the competition without eating into the customer base of their competitors. Hard to do if you don't market to the same groups as your competitor.

All the articles I read back in October talked about 2k selling 1 million copies while Live sold around 8,000. So 2k's PC sales alone blew Live's total sales out of the water. And this is a target audience to ignore?

I love Live and if it were to fold I still wouldn't go back to 2k. My opinion is that Live is only guaranteeing failure by ignoring a target audience.

It does make me think there are no plans to continue the series much longer because they don't seem to want to improve sales. They certainly aren't aggressive in trying to do so.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Andrew on Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:44 am

Again, a majority of 2K's sales are on the console. That's the market that Live really wants to compete for. The numbers don't lie here: the PC market is not the primary audience, as it makes up a very, very small proportion of it. You keep mentioning 120 million Steam users, but the number of people who are interested in a basketball game on PC (or a basketball game on any platform) isn't anywhere near that. The sales figures and Steam stats bear that out; it's not even a quarter of a million right now. There is certainly value in offering up your game on as many platforms as possible, but again, the PC market is not a significant player when it comes to basketball gaming. The console versions are what sell, what makes money.

Also note that a digital only release of NBA Live is probably more likely to be available on Origin, rather than Steam.

Beyond that, you have the usual challenges of developing a PC port, and the need to focus on making improvements to NBA Live so that it's a better game that will sell more copies, on any platform. I would like to have a PC version, but it's a difficult sell.
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby ThaLiveKing on Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:35 pm

If they really can find a way to make the dribbling top notch, and more precise, I think they will be on their way with this series, the dribbling is important for Pro Am to be a much better mode. The defense is almost there also. I just feel at the end of close games, the game starts to hiccup a lot, not sure why, maybe there's too much data in there flowing all at once.

I wish they would give us an option to turn off the updates for the data, and let us just use the plays and the ratings only. Not sure how much they coincide but at the end of the day, basketball is basketball. I wouldn't mind seeing how that would play out. Also, I did a CPU vs CPU game the other day, and I swear the CPU only ran the quick play options, I noticed this because that's all I run, and pick & roll, could the data be interfering with that?
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Re: Official NLSC Wishlist for NBA Live 17

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:33 am

Andrew wrote:Again, a majority of 2K's sales are on the console. That's the market that Live really wants to compete for. The numbers don't lie here: the PC market is not the primary audience, as it makes up a very, very small proportion of it. You keep mentioning 120 million Steam users, but the number of people who are interested in a basketball game on PC (or a basketball game on any platform) isn't anywhere near that. The sales figures and Steam stats bear that out; it's not even a quarter of a million right now. There is certainly value in offering up your game on as many platforms as possible, but again, the PC market is not a significant player when it comes to basketball gaming. The console versions are what sell, what makes money.

Also note that a digital only release of NBA Live is probably more likely to be available on Origin, rather than Steam.

Beyond that, you have the usual challenges of developing a PC port, and the need to focus on making improvements to NBA Live so that it's a better game that will sell more copies, on any platform. I would like to have a PC version, but it's a difficult sell.


We get that. But it's just another "take away" that hurt the series reputation. Lets see, here is what has been taken away from us

1. Local multiplayer Dynasty
2. Roster Editing
3. Create a player feature (Not talking about just the one "my player" type)
4. Legends in the main use of the games (all decade teams, or free agent pool of them)
5. PC version
6. All-star weekend

I don't want the excuse of "Well this was taken away awhile ago" etc. That means NOTHING. Numerous takeaways of important facets of the game, and hardly any addons that make anybody say "lets go out and get Live this year". Even minus the PC version, so many takeaways. No excuses, basketball games now NEED these features, they need them to compete and survive. This isn't even factoring in the gameplay which still needs to be tweaked.

That list is the essentials with no extras included. These should already have been in the game (Minus the PC version thing). I don't want to hear about not having enough money for development, or not having enough money for this or that. You are putting out a basketball game with the official NBA license, with the intention of competing. If you can't put out a product that even carries the bare essentials needed in a basketball game, don't put one out. It's wasting everybody's time. All I hear is excuses and excuses each and every year, and just another disappointing product.

Lets see:

Promotion of the game is weak
Execution is weak
Listening is weak (Don't tell me fans are being listened too, we are getting ignored, the same things we are asking for each year never get brought back or added on, those features above don't require any additional licensing, or approval)

Andrew, where I may sound frustrated is: this has been going on for YEARS, since the late 2000's.... What will it take for them to LISTEN to the fan base and implement what the fans really want? The facts above are just that, facts. No more excuses.

"Everyone likes to look at 2K Games as a helpless victim caught in the warpath of EA’s wrath. Yes, we all loved NFL2K, and it took a shifty exclusivity deal to help Madden recover the lost market share that NFL2K5 gobbled up with its $19.99 price tag. Or am I just old with that line of thinking?

However, how can anybody call 2K Games a victim after a smothering like this? For the third straight year, it’s NBA2K series has outsold EA’s NBA Live by claiming upwards of 98 percent of the basketball video game market. This year, NBA Live has sunk below the 1 percent line, selling just 8,000 units compared to NBA 2K16’s 1 million.

By the way, that 1 million sales made NBA2K16 the best selling sports game launch of the generation. Not bad." -Techno Buffalo

The whole "they made strides", "they made steps in the right direction", is not accurate. We hear that every year, and almost nobody is buying NBA Live. The numbers are just staggering.

No more excuses.
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