NBA Elite 11 Delayed

[Houndy]

EA, smart move. Skip 2011, build on Elite for Elite 2012

[J@3]

Lol @ this... best decision to make though.

[Axel The Great]

lol this is some funny shit. soooooo does nba 2k have an option to change controls?

2K doesn't have an option to change controls, but you can either use the shot button, or the sticks.

[J@3]

You can change the controls in 2K10. I have a setting so that the B button is crossover and the Y button is spin move, so I don't have to use isomotion. Can't think of why it wouldn't be the same in 2k11

[Andrew]

Re-posting my reactions from the front page:

I was not as unhappy with the demo as a lot of people, but I was clearly in the minority there (and certainly do not dispute the criticisms made of the animations and certain other issues). With such an overwhelmingly negative response, it's clear that NBA Elite 11 in its current form - even if the demo was a couple of weeks behind the final build - was not going to be well-received, nor sell very well at all. Embarrassment and a huge PR nightmare appeared to be looming.

Announcing the delay so close to the scheduled release isn't that much better from a PR standpoint and I think it's fair to say EA is still going to receive a fair amount of scorn for the decision. At the same time however, I think most people can see this as a good move given the circumstances and if it allows them time to improve the game and get a quality product out there, the long term benefits are going to offset any heat in the short term.

A quote from Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto on the several delays of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time for the Nintendo 64 comes to mind:

"A bad game that gets delayed is eventually good. But a bad game that isn't is bad forever."

Now, let me stress that I'm not trying to draw too many parallels between NBA Elite 11 and Ocarina of Time itself, the latter being an iconic and bonafide classic game. I'm not suggesting NBA Elite 11 will achieve that status; there's too much to be done to appease the fanbase, NBA 2K11 is extremely stiff competition with everything they've done this year and basketball games in general are not thought of as all-time greats, even amongst sports titles. Furthermore, Ocarina of Time was just that awesome.

What I'm getting at is that Miyamoto's assertion about video game delays has merit. Releasing NBA Elite 11 as-is and then releasing a fix might've been alright, but the sales and the reaction would've been nowhere near what EA wanted. By delaying the game, they've got a chance to put community feedback to use, take extra time that they probably always needed given all the things they were looking to change this year and add the necessary polish to make the game a success.

It's still going to be an uphill battle, of course. If NBA Elite 11 does come out at some point and isn't scrapped in favour of taking another year to try and bounce back with NBA Elite 12, it's going to have to contend with NBA 2K11's complete domination of the market. It'll take some appealing gimmicks, a very impressive second demo and maybe even a price drop to penetrate that market with a later release. It therefore wouldn't be too surprising if NBA Elite 11 is never released in favour of moving on to next year but EA are obviously leaving the door open.

Hopefully, the delay will allow us as a community to help fix the problems we saw in the NBA Elite 11 demo and make the postponement worthwhile. I strongly suggest we jump on any opportunity to provide constructive feedback and definitely not shy away from posting detailed opinions and suggestions. "This sucks" and "EA sucks" are not going to accomplish anything. There's a time and a place to express those sentiments of course but if we're presented with an opportunity to make the delay worthwhile, then I feel we have to make the most of it.

The decision to release NBA Jam as a standalone game on the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 is definitely a good move and appeases 360/PS3 users who might not have liked the look of NBA Elite 11 and had to look on with envy at all the extra content in the Wii version. Likewise, offering continued free DNA updates and online support for NBA Live 10 in the interim is a solid decision from a PR standpoint. It's necessary damage control, though if we could get another fix for some of the issues in NBA Live 10 then that would be fantastic. I don't think we should hold out much hope there.

It's surprising news and certainly not something I would've expected even with the negative reactions to the demo, but this needn't be bad news. There are still question marks and no guarantees, but this is an opportunity to turn a negative into a positive for EA Sports and their basketball franchise. I for one am planning on doing whatever I can from a community standpoint to make the most of the delay, while hoping for the best. In the meantime, I guess my NBA Live 06 Dynasty, NBA 2K11 and eventually NBA Jam will be giving me my basketball video gaming fill.

[formx]

"A bad game that gets delayed is eventually good. But a bad game that isn't is bad forever."

Apparently Duke Nukem Forever is good?

[benji]

Press Left for Beer.

[Andrew]

Apparently Duke Nukem Forever is good?

Hey, seems like we'll actually find out.

[Patr1ck]

lol this is some funny shit. soooooo does nba 2k have an option to change controls?

Yeah, you can even change the RS to a dribble stick.

[wabenne]

As I stated after playing the demo I felt like the Live Brand was dead, I think that is now proven with the announcement of a delay. I think the negative reactions made EA feel like they can't put this game out or they would lose way more money and respect then they would for not putting it out. So while they had to do it, its a lose-lose situation. I agree with something Andrew said, as far as them delaying it them may actually play a bigger price then if they released it.

To Have 2k dominate because it really has no competition it is going to please its 2k base and casual fans who played either or and now are going to get settled in on 2k and then its even going to pull some Live fans because they have no game to play. I think if they still tried to put out Elite it would have already lose to much value and sometimes if you miss your chance at a first impression then the 2nd won't even be worth it,I kind of feel like Live will definetly be looked at now as a 2nd option instead of a competative game. This is a bad day for Live fans even worse then the demo.

The mistake I believe that made is they tried to be so much better by being so much different. Live 2010 was a very good game and didn't need all of these new inventions more less it didn't need to be rebuild it just needed to be built on top of. I think the changes were to much for everybody and then focused so much on the changes that they forgot about the look of the game. If there is anything that they should have took from 2k its the fact that 2k continues to build on top of its games its inventions are only additions while Live's additions are by subtracting or removing stuff that we liked and are use to. Today is a very sad day for me in gaming

[Andrew]

So while they had to do it, its a lose-lose situation. I agree with something Andrew said, as far as them delaying it them may actually play a bigger price then if they released it.

In the short term, most likely. In the long term, perhaps not.

[bronco_4_ever]

This is very disapointing, even if they try to fix it haters are still gonna be haters, i was actually looking forward to the game. I really dont get it 2k fans are so ignorant they will not try the game when it comes out so why delay its release date and knowing that it will come out next year hurt even more, i will never get 2k11 because its horrible, its not horrible because i cant play its horrible because of the horrible gamplay and graphics, so more live 10 I guess

[Sauru]

lol this is some funny shit. soooooo does nba 2k have an option to change controls?

Yeah, you can even change the RS to a dribble stick.

really now i might just have to pick it as i actually wanted to get back into video ball this year

[formx]

Hey, seems like we'll actually find out.

Will that mean Gran Turismo 5 according to Kayne will be the best game of all time due to it's numerous delays?

[Andrew]

This is very disapointing, even if they try to fix it haters are still gonna be haters, i was actually looking forward to the game. I really dont get it 2k fans are so ignorant they will not try the game when it comes out so why delay its release date and knowing that it will come out next year hurt even more, i will never get 2k11 because its horrible, its not horrible because i cant play its horrible because of the horrible gamplay and graphics, so more live 10 I guess

I agree that there will always be haters but this isn't something that 2K fans have forced. The negative reception came from everywhere, hardcore Live fans included and when it gets to that point, it's obviously going to make EA re-think releasing the game as-is. I, like you, came away from the demo far more positive than most but we are in the scant minority, so it's safe to say NBA Elite 11 was not going to be well received. If it means they can iron out some issues, I think it's worth it.

Will that mean Gran Turismo 5 according to Kayne will be the best game of all time due to it's numerous delays?

Maybe. But just to clarify again, I'm not saying NBA Elite 11 will be the best game of all time because it's being delayed. Just that the delay might not necessarily be a bad thing, indeed hopefully it'll be for the best.

[formx]

yall let all these 2k fanboys mess up the release date because they the main 1s complaining you developers listen to people who are gonna hate the game with a passion no matter what i was a die hard live fan since 1998 and once i paid my elite 11 preorder off saturday just to hear sum bs like this on a monday was so ridiculous with oct 5th right around the corner i can never forgive for ea this this is by far the dumbest move ever by a company its offical im with 2k and i dont care what anyone die hard ea fan says its unacceptable you will listen to the competiton before you listen to your own fanbase im truly not a elite fan anymore this is some real bullshit no lie

LOL! This guy posted the exact same thing on the EA forums
http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/30/2609706.page#8591100

[Alphasim]

(First off, this was taken from my blog, which is why I ramble with clarifications and such that are redundant when posted here. I was worried it would get incoherent if I tried to clean it up.)

Um, wow. Consider me shocked. I didn’t like the Xbox 360 demo this year (then again, I’ve not really liked a next gen EA Sports basketball game to date) but this came completely out of left field. I personally didn’t think the demo was substantially worse then previous EA Sports b-ball games. It featured the same robotic animations, over-saturated coloring and stiff control as in past games, with some confusing new controller-input changes added on top. EA had allot to lose by putting this product head-to-head with NBA 2K11, which has a head of steam going, hype-wise, with the new features, improved graphics and the inclusion of Michael Jordan (something EA did back in 1999 with NBA Live 2000). However, this delay could be very dangerous to EA’s basketball brand.

First they renamed the venerable NBA Live series, giving up name recognition in the process. Now they’re missing the opening gate and giving 2K Sports a head start. This could lead to neutral fans who would normally flock to Live because of the name to go to NBA 2K11. What happens there is anyone’s guess. They may get attached to the new brand, or they could get turned off on basketball games as a whole. It almost gives me the vibes from 989 Sports’ NBA Shootout series that EA’s game killed off. 989 skipped Shootout 2002 (on the PS2) to perfect their product but never really got back in the game. Eerily, it was NBA Shootout that was originally trying new and unconventional things to hang with NBA Live on the original PlayStation (such as their unique create-a-dunk feature), which reminds me of the innovations EA has implemented to stay with 2K’s game (freestyle dribbling on the PS2/Xbox, ELITE’s complete overhaul on the PS3/360).

EA has scrapped a franchise in the past and it’s worked. Triple Play Baseball got a really bad reputation in the early 2000s for low quality, so EA shut it down and made a new game, MVP Baseball, that by many accounts was the best baseball game of it’s day (before 2K Sports locked up the MLB license and killed the series). That means that EA Sports isn’t on entirely uncharted ground here. They just need to be careful to not lose too much territory to NBA 2K11 this fall. Time will tell if they can.

EDIT: Ok, after re-reading this for the 40th time, it dawned on me that the last paragraph sounded like I thought ELITE was dead. I was actually referring to EA going from Live to ELITE.

[DVocShoeBox]

the only thing, I have been thinking bout is "HOW DOES DURANT FEELS ABOUT THIS?" I mean, we can atleast show sympathy to the cover guy!

He is a brillant player who is on the cover of the game no one likes.... bummer, make a new cover for Jam for heavens-sake...

[thelegend23]

the only thing, I have been thinking bout is "HOW DOES DURANT FEELS ABOUT THIS?" I mean, we can atleast show sympathy to the cover guy!

He is a brillant player who is on the cover of the game no one likes.... bummer, make a new cover for Jam for heavens-sake...

same here, and i realize Mike Wang is a genius

[[Q]]

wow when i read the title i thought maybe a month delay but i agree they should take the year off. i was very open to buying it but i decided against it after playing the demo a few times.

However, I am stoked at another year of Live 10, a game I actually do like. anybody know if roster updates are available right now or do we have to wait til day 1?

[Andrew]

Haven't checked yet but my guess is there might be an initial update sometime in early October (as they did when 09 and 10 came out), with the DNA updates commencing with the start of the 2010/2011 season.

[Patr1ck]

I think this shows the way EA runs their business. I guarantee you they were not continually evaluating the game throughout the development process. Otherwise, this announcement would not have happened two weeks before the release. This is what happens when you have ignorant gamers who know nothing of WIP footage try to give feedback from videos.

The controls were too deep for people to understand. Look at the videos people have posted. They are mad because they don't know what they are doing.

[Andrew]

Although I think there was merit in trying to re-invent the game considering some of the lacklustre feedback to recent releases (including NBA Live 10), they certainly might have gone too far with it. I know that's something wabenne has been saying the demo's release and while I don't totally agree with his take but I would say that there's merit in that too. There perhaps should have been more of a transition with the controls, more of a hybrid right off the bat.

The WWE Smackdown vs RAW series changed its control scheme from face buttons to greater use of the analog stick and triggers over the years but the change felt a bit less radical, at least in my view. We're talking about two different games there of course and it does work quite well for a wrestling game whereas perhaps it's not cut out for basketball based on the widespread reactions to the new controls, but hybrid controls might have at least eased everyone into the concept. I found the controls fairly easy to pick up but that's clearly not been the case for everyone. Scaling it back a bit would probably be a good start.

[Patr1ck]

There was no way Live could catch up with 2K with the way they were going. This reinvention was a step beyond what all the other sports games(minus backbreaker) have been relying on, animations that cover up holes in things like collisions or defense, and more responsive control. I seriously thought that the big wigs knew this was the plan all along. Package NBA JAM to get people to buy an NBA game that is 1/3rd done(3-year plan), and continue community interaction to help improve it. Upper management, all they care about is the numbers.

Now people are saying they should scrap Elite and try to add the control to Live 10 in a patch, which is impossible. AI and animations go hand in hand. They are also saying that since Elite 11 is already off to a rough start, the franchise is almost killed before it has started and they should bring back Live for 12. I agree on none of this. If the delay is used to improve the game, then great. If they don't fix those funky collision animations come a few months from now, people are going to consider the entire series a failure from the start.

I do agree on the hybrid thing. Keeping pass and shoot on a face button, making the right stick completely dribble moves, and keeping the turbo button would have been more acceptable to people. But they can just switch to the alternate, it's too easy to do that, and you still get the dribble stick, so wtf?

(paraphrasing)Wah, I don't know the controls, this game sucks.

I expected more maturity and intelligence out of these so called "sim heads." Talk to someone in real life who doesn't devote this much time to a sports game like a lot of us do. The best response would probably be- "It's just a game, play it for what it is. If you like it, good. If you don't, then why waste your time?"

[J@3]

I don't think the criticism was based on not knowing how the controls work. At least not the majority of it. The animations were terrible, so even if you mastered the control scheme you then had a game that looked spastic.. as opposed to a game that looked spastic, with a difficult control set-up.