[UPDATE 11/13] Meh & Ryans Total PC Roster v2.2

[atlwarrior]

can you only use rashidis edits plz? Sorry i just dont agree with nogster and 2k insider edits

[L10]

This update contains the Randolph for Thomas & Mobley trade?

[valpurgis]

yes,you can play with them........

[valpurgis]

but in this web there is a other upday with last trade warriors and new york and l.a.

[TC#10]

This Roster has been the best roster out there since it's released. Gotta love the edits u've guys made + all the players tendencies, to those who want the game to play realistically, use this roster combined with Nogster's game sliders and the updated Nogsster's player/team tendencies sliders found in the operationsports.com 2k forum. Nogster is the best around with 2K basketball sliders and trust me, superstars play like superstars if you use his sliders and especially when you tweak your coaching profile to according to what Nogster has!

[GuCcI08]

i have updated the roster with nogster coach profiles/player tendencies, ny gs la trade and waives. here it is with nogster sliders. lookin forward to next version. have fun everyone. http://www.speedyshare.com/327647635.html

[valpurgis]

the archive win rar is empty..... why??

[Initial_M]

@ GuCcI08

-any created players included on the roster? and is these roster that you've uploaded is only good for a 11-12 qtr minutes? because I'm just playing for about 7-9 mins /qtr..

[L10]

Link not working bro Gucci ! xD haha

[GuCcI08]

here anotha link. http://www.mediafire.com/?ddn42hs0ys7

[milbarpao]

Hi,
I've been using the roster with the Lakers in a season mode. I have the blue lighting sliders with some adjustements made in order to fit me. My problem is that the cpu does not make many subs. Especially against the Pistons, when only 6 players are used. The same happens with other teams. Anyone knows how to fix this? Thanks.

[iounasas]

Why Is max dunking 80? I dont understand?
And I notice that 3pt is also lower.
What else did you change..and how we should change sliders to compensate?

[GLImamasan]

Pls update with the current trade that includes mobley, randolph, etc. Thanks.

[sventhedog]

hi guys i'm trying to find the best roster available. can you guys tell me which one is the best? thanks.

[zarbon]

i use Makiarosters 2.5

[GuCcI08]

kruza has updated his playbooks. here ya go this include the la,ny,gs and the det/den trade.

[TC#10]

kruza has updated his playbooks. here ya go this include the la,ny,gs and the det/den trade.

Hey bro, do u know if the CPU will run the plays that you have assigned them to use in the playbook option?

[GuCcI08]

the cpu won't use the plays assigned.

[TC#10]

the cpu won't use the plays assigned.

Ya I've tested this and the cpu doesn't run the plays assigned, it just runs any random play as long as it's in the playbook it's using. BTW have you played against the Celtics? Ray Allen is putting up the most shots and most of the plays are ran through him instead of Paul Pierce. Do you get this problem?

[GuCcI08]

i will play celtics and let u kno.

[tylerd]

hi guys, i joined this forum so i can help you about these rosters and other tweaks (coach profiles etc.)
i really really apreciate your work and want to give my contribution so we can all enjoy the game to its best (because i still think its a great game, despite a few glitches... the one with goaltending enoys me the most)
this is going to be a long post, but i hope you guys (meh & ryan particulary and of course others) will take your time and read it, because i think it will be helpful
before i make suggestions about the patch in particular i must give some opinions about the issues i see players have with the game wich will give a completely different aproach from the most

i play on pro level and its fine by me. i havent really tried superstar or all-star etc. mostly because i think i still have to improve my game a bit (ie. understanding of how some things work, so i dont make some of the mistakes i do, mostly in screening situations. mistakes mainly come from my understanding of spacing in this game [wich is a VERY existant, oposed to some opinions] as i will explain in next paragraph)

the thing is i play with most of the sliders on default, however i did make few changes that made my game experience a LOT LOT better. [later on these]
when i got this game i played with broadcast camera and have had a really hard time "being good" (= winning games). i played many basketball games before on hardest levels and i'm a long time basketball fan, also i was basketball player myself as a teenager, so i could say i have a very good understanding of the game.
so... i played it on broadcast camera and i constantly asked myself wtf is wrong... until i tried other cam looks. first press cam, then 2k cam wich is the one i play now. change of camera made me understand that this game is simlply very badly translated to broadcast camera in terms of controls and spacing. when you switch to press cam and particulary 2k cam, things start to come to you much much better.

i will resolve all the issues i see people have and try to give some insight in why that some things happen wich in the end results in my opinion on why some sliders should stay the way they are

#1 - cpu constantly backdores to paint
solution: cpu AI is made pretty well in this game, so it will use any weakness you have in the way you play your defense. thing is - with broadcast camera you cant really see whats wrong, and they made it VERY precise actually so i think its just a very bad programming on their behalf that needs some serious rebuilding to be done. when you play eg. 2k camera you can start to understand why backdoors happen. as you play on-ball defense (play with player that defends the man with the ball) your teammates will react acordingly (like in real life, you affect their AWARENESS of the situation on the court with your positioning). "lock on-d" feature wont basically do anything for you. it just sets player in defensive stance of your choice. on broadcast camera youre not aware when you are standing too much on the side of your oponent, because perspective makes you think youre right in front of him when you are actually a bit on the side (thus leaving open space for a pass). with 2k cam you can have a much better perspective of your position, so when oposing player off-ball starts the run into the paint a simple move to the passing lane will either make cpu player with the ball look for other options or will result a steal, from either you or the player helping defense (post player) or sometimes even assigned man manages to cut the lane (because he reacts to your move and "understands" that there might be a pass, same goes for post player that pay attention when you move). for me sometimes it happens that 3 of my players surround the ball and getting a steal putting a complete offense of the oposing team out of play [then again, i play the celtics, so i guess it doesnt work that well with other teams, but im sure it works)
* so this for me eliminated the need of setting defensive awareness. i still have def. aw. on 55 and help d on 55, but i think i will get those back to default too

#2 - bad defensive transitions
another thing a had a lot of problems too on broadcast cam. i still have slight problems but i have to get acustomed to the camera a bit more (few days) and it wont happen anymore. when you play on 2k cam, you can start to understand that you have to set your player in exactly the right position on the court (wich you cant see with broadcast cam) so you can cover the court better. for eg. if they play high pick & roll and you were playing say PG, you have to close the drive lane, and then if he play pick n pop instead you have to come from behind your PF/C and go strong to him to chalenge the shot. you have to do it proper, so you PF/C can stay with his man IN THE PASSING LANE and cut the pass or at least stop him from running into the paint for dunk/layup so you can have him posted and then play some low post d (its all strenght and timing down there). THERE IS NO WAY you can do it properly on broadcast cam, because perspective tricks you so you leave a little space for the drive there (when you thing you closed it) and you come off your C/PF in a way that prevents him to be perfectly aware of the oposing player movement. again, they made it very precise and it simply translates very bad to the broadcast camera. pretty much the same goes for in&out situations (PG drives in then cuts it to 3pt) and other situations.
* different situation, same sliders help d, def aw.

#3 - you player not stealing the ball enough
reason for this is that (as i could understand... mainly from analyzing profile data) is they wanted to make you play off-ball d in this game more than on ball. i still like the old way of playing defense (that is playing the D on the player with the ball), only sometimes i play off ball d, when i see that my player needs to do a cut here and there and my cpu teammate wont do it well enough. therefore i have "play passing lanes" slider to 75 (or 70, something like that). that makes cpu teammates play just it enough, hence getting some passes cut here and there. i do have hustle on 55 or so, because i think your cpu teammates dont react well on loose balls as well as they should regardless of who the player is.
* as you can see this is personal preference for <my style of play> - this is important to what i will suggest for the patch, we all have personal styles that shouldnt affect the way entire patch is acustomed.

#4 - shot precentages
i agree with people here, and i tried to understand why is it like that in a fine game like this one. i guess they tried to make it easier for the kids to win. i remember all old versions of NBA Live had that, wich i really hated. when you play them on lower levels you could hit most of the shots, but back then AI was basically stupid compared to nowdays and you have to set it to highest posible level to get some competition out of the game. on those higher levels you were getting realistic FG%, so i guess thats how it works here too (or not?).
anyway i have my shot sliders as it goes:
CPU/HUM - 47/49 for all types. i have layups suc. at 52, but i will put that back to 50 as soon as i have a better grasp at how long you have to keep button pressed to do a good layup, because i understood thats is the main issue with missing layups. hitting too many is fixed with another slider and here it goes...

issue #5 - cpu not fouling enough
i think they made it this way for the kids again, who are bored with too many free throw shooting. i put cpu "commint foul tendency" to 90 (its not too much at all). back to layups, seriously you cant see too many layups missed in the nba game. maybe few, but what the game is missing is those fouls on the layup. its just not fouling you so you can hit the layup all day long, but if you set foul tend. like this, a lot of the time cpu fouls you on your "supposed to be clean layup" just like it happens in the real game. when cpu fouls you, it will do it proper, so you wont have much 2+1's there. i just had to make him play like the real players do. i set charge/block foul to 75 (because i've seen many not being called that should be). i think those should be the same, maybe block to 80, because refs would usually call block foul more than charge in real game (because they see it being block foul if theres even a little foot movement on the defensive end before the contact). reach/shoot fouls are on 55, because refs sometimes alow a little contact in nba, but still its not like the default where they dont call a clear foul. loose ball is on 100)

#6 - hands/ball control/quickness sliders
personaly i dont like these sliders being moved. i see a solid number of bad passes from cpu, and out of bounds catches and stuff like that because of the defense. there should be more, but i figured lowering those takes away some things. ball control for. eg, makes player loses some of their signature moves (eg. paul pierce's small fast steps when hes about to drive it to the basker, or KG's catching the ball high on the post) i like how they captured some of those so i decided to leave it on default, hence giving up having few more turnovers here and there (and its not like bot you and cpu cant make a bad pass... there should be a bit more ball drops, true... but i think this is another compensation "for the kids")
i have my game speed on 44 wich i found to be best in being responsive to controlls. that make it posibile to stop the cpu driblles by actually playing defense and reacting to their moves so the quickness wasnt really the issue anymore. default speed was just too fast for me, this way i can really control how i push them off from the dribble. you can still get thrown out of the D, but sometimes cpu does just trying to dribble through and thats really due to bad programming (way cpu executes isomotion moves needs to be patched) because sometimes if you leave a little space by your reaction/positioning cpu acts like theres a whole empty lane in front when its just a feet or two. cpu needs to do lot more hesitation moves (wich are usually done in real life in those situations. you dont crossover all the time, you do some step backs to get space, wich cpu doesnt do in this game)

#7 - hook shots
i set it to 25 because you cant see many in nba game, but if you set it too low, player will miss hooks that are logical to be hook shots and should go in (so called "baby hooks" what shouldnt be mistaked with layups)

#8 - rebounds
this is a BIG issue with broadcast cam, because rebounding suffers the most. good rebounding requires you to box out your oponent very well so you can have a clear basket to get the ball. it doesnt have to be you catching the ball, it can be your cpu teammate, as long as you block the player youre on (aka box him out). cpu players will try to find their way or box you out, to get close to the basket, to do anything - and they will do it really well. with broadcast cam you cant really see their movement well and also you cant position your player well wich is very important (and they made the game very precise here too).

ok so that would be the most important ones.

basically you can see all those issues are releated to bad controls/perspective when you play broadcast or similar camera.
so the important part comes here:
im not saying everyone should play 2k cam if they really dont want to, its personal preference and i do agree some camera angles REQUIRE player to make adjustements to fix these issues BUT - ROSTERS, TENDENCIES, COACH SETTINGS SHOUDLN'T BE DRIVEN BY THESE PERSONAL PREFERENCES.
i say this because i see some wrong things with nogster's coach profiles.
coach profiles are made so you can set what teams are "used to doing". nogster set the mid range shots a bit too much for most ot the teams, close shots too low to prevent cpu backdoring him etc.
but if you play the game "proper" [precise is the better word, sorry] (wich cant be done in some camera angles imho, so you have to make slider adjustments) you wont get backdors (ok sometimes [rarely] you do, but that happens in the real game too).
counter-effect of those settings is that game becomes too much shooting, wich an NBA game is not. theres not enough pick&rolls, because roll out = close shot (layup or smth). theres not enough plays for drive in. thats why cpu dont call enough plays for paul pierce for eg. because mid range tend. is much higher than drive/close tend. and most od the pierce plays are drive/close shot plays. (it still calls some of those plays where pierce gets the ball for mid range and drive as 2nd option, or for where he gets it for 3. i notices it does calls a post option play pretty often with is basically play for getting pierce the ball on the post as 2nd opt, but thats because 1st opt on that play is garnett midrange jumper right away)
i prefer to have cpu call my plays (it doesnt exactly does it on random, theres a pattern)
and i think settings should be set like this by default (if you call your plays manually, you dont matter the coach tendencies then anyway, at least those shot selection related)
as for other coach settings - offensive tempo is easy to nail down by comparing default settings and posessions per game stats from last season vs this season. defensive pressure and help d is a bit more subjective setting, but i think rashidi can help with those.

basically my suggestion is to go with rashidi vs official 2k insider's ratings and tendencies and leaving you guys to come with the best of both worlds (lol) on your own preference [wich i think youre close to doing right now, i think you've done pretty good job in latest version] (rashidi has a tendency to over/underrate players just like anyone else, but he relies a lot on stats, and the stats isnt everything in this case because you have to translate the stats to the game [so in perfect situation you get the realistic stats when you play season/association]. 2k insider should have better insight in ratings/game relations as he can have help from developers, so maybe his work is just too marketing oriented [eg. boosting up players that are present in the media and not doing throughtfull job on the entire game and overlooking stuff that are not so obvious])

that said, i did have an issue when playing vs cpu and cpu doesnt do rotations well. my first tought is that the player roles havent been set well (when you go into association mode it explains you what the roles mean pretty good, for eg. in v1 Derick Rose was Prospect i think and they are suppose to play few mins in 2nd then you are leading a lot or at the end, and he has to be a Starter etc etc.) but it seems something else is the problem (maybe Rotations need to be more attribute based, for eg. Defensive should have best defenders, because i think game uses parts of those, not just the whole lineup, for eg. if oposing guard is having a run, cpu will bring in your SG from defensive lineup into the game if not already in. example in boston would be Ray Allen out for Tony Allen for eg. so Pierce goes SG, and T.Allen SF, or if SF is problem it will get T.Allen in for Pierce if Pierce needs a rest, but if Pierce is in defensive lineup and SF is making a problem it will not put T.Allen in because Pierce is in "best defensive lineup" too and hes player is not making a problem) i hope this helped.

i really hope you will take time to take these into consideration (if i can remember anything else i will post it later)
i wish the entire community can help to get us a good patch for pc version of this great game

P.S.
omg this is one huge post, but i hope it will help to have this game better. now back to some real action, orl @ bos, 4th q bos +12 atmo, hope they'll win

[tylerd]

*i forgot Tomba, i think that guy's work should be considered too (i think he understands player tendencies pretty well and is also more conservative than rashidi on ratings wich is good too)

EDIT: i took a little more insight in tomba's edits, and i just think he did a bit too much of it (player speed and stuff like that.) i dont think it would translate well into the game with lower game speed set... he also uses nogster's player/coach tendencies

[TC#10]

If you haven't read what i wrote under the sliders thread here it is:

Best game Experience I've ever since I bought this game! Wow after hrs of experimenting and testing I found a way for the CPU to play realistically and utilize their go-to guys alot more now. The secret to this is that after you have chose your team and your opponent in the Quick Play screen, you have to press the number 3 on your keyboard to show the game option, scroll down till you see the Home and Away Playbook option and it should say the team's playbook. You will have to switch your opponent's specific team playbook till you see "All Plays" it should be next to "Standard Playbook". And then start your game.

You will notice that now the CPU opponent runs a variety of plays now and that it run more plays for the go-to guy of that team.

Remember switch either the Home/Away Playbook (depending on what the CPU is) to "All Plays" and you will see good results. Also it is helpful to make sure that each team's go-to guy on offense have the highest shooting tendencies in the "edit player" screen to get the best results.

[KMart4]

When will be realase the update?

[tylerd]

tnx for the playbook tips TC, will try that and see how it goes
i think stuff like attack the basket/drive tendencies also influence the playcalling (as discussed in that big post of mine) and of course close shots for teams with key PF/C players and plays for them [good eg. would be Hornets having nice plays for West with mid range/drive/close as options]

i just read about some patch improvements and i cant be sure if that substitutions problem may be a game glitch (when you change subtitution method from by rotation to by fatigue and vise versa)... can others share their experiences about hum vs. cpu play where cpu is not using rotations properly please? (either way i'm sure substitutions work the way i described in previous post, so defensive lineup should be best defenders, 3pt lineup best 3pt guys, ft lineup best ft guys etc. [example, if oposing team is faouling a lot and you have bad FT pctg, "coach" will bring in some guys from FT lineup, not necessary all of them])

i think we should test to see if cpu will use plays by for eg. kleiza's handbook (or any custom playbook for that part) when you play vs. cpu or it is definitely the best to have them use "all plays".
is this working in associacion mode too? (thats the only mode i play, but im waiting for a patch to be crafted to start one again)