JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Talk about all other basketball video games including NBA Jam, NBA Street, college basketball games and more. General basketball video game discussion and comparison topics are also welcome here.

JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Fri May 17, 2013 2:13 am

Let's Fail

Last Year's Thread - viewtopic.php?f=72&t=84758
And the Year Before's - viewtopic.php?f=141&t=80861

Format
video goes here
    Game: Major Prediction
    Minor Prediction

Green means good job Jao.
Red means common sense prevailed.



#1 Cover Athletes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_CU3-7_0ZY
phpBB [video]


    NBA 2K14: Jordan Returns
    Multicover with current players

    NBA Live 14: LeBron
    FIBA inspired



#2 Gameplay & Online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3856Wl09g
phpBB [video]


    Gameplay
    NBA 2K14: No Major Changes
    Some kind of animation variator/blender - Next Gen
    Collision Overhaul Continues

    NBA Live 14: Impact Engine
    Synergy for tendencies
    Will Still NOT be Organic (wipes)

    Online
    NBA 2K14: Return of Crew
    Online Association Overhaul
    Custom Rosters Online

    NBA Live 14: EASBA
    NBA Jam: OFE Challenges
    Online Shootarounds



#3 Single Player Modes (MyCAREER, Association, Become Legendary, Dynasty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gighn3IxtCM
phpBB [video]


    Career Modes
    NBA 2K14: More Social Stuff
    MyCRIB - Next Gen Kinda...but No
    Star/2nd Rounder/Undrafted

    NBA Live 14: FIBA Integration
    EASBA Transfer
    Limited off-court stuff

    Franchise Modes
    NBA 2K14: No Major Changes
    Video Highlights instead of Snapshots
    Expansion Teams

    NBA Live 14: Afterthought
    FIBA Integration
    Online Integration



#4 Graphics & Presentation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ws2Q79KZTg
phpBB [video]


    Presentation
    NBA 2K14: No Major Changes
    Multiple End of Quarter Commercials

    NBA Live 14: ESPN
    ABC & NBATV Too

    Graphics
    NBA 2K14: HD'd NBA 2K13, nothing too drastic - Next Gen Holy Shit
    New Cloth Uniforms - Next Gen
    Wingspans (graphically at least) - Next Gen

    NBA Live 14: Jaw Dropping
    Face/Body Scans with Gameface via Kinect/PS4
    Arena Specific Lighting



#5 Custom & Special Teams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3qnvhi6HaE
phpBB [video]


    MyTEAM/Ultimate Team
    NBA 2K14: MyCAREER Players
    Better VC Balancing
    Coaches (Already in 2K13, I screwed up)

    NBA Live 14: No Legendary Players
    Similar to EASBA (not NBA teams)
    Preorder Exclusives

    Special Teams
    NBA 2K14: Removal of Classic Teams
    Return of Decade Teams
    Dev Teams Return

    NBA Live 14: FIBA
    World Championships Mode
    Rosters will Update



#6 Next Gen Features & X-Factors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMeQUnt4IcQ
phpBB [video]


    Next Gen vs Current Gen
    NBA 2K14: PS360 2K14 will be a Roster Update

    NBA Live 14: No Current Gen Release


    X Factors
    NBA 2K14: Innovating - Next Gen

    NBA Live 14: Selling us on Next Gen
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby Andrew on Fri May 17, 2013 10:18 am

Solid predictions, though I think NBA 2K14 might be gradually leaving behind the historical content so I'm not sure about MJ being on the cover. NBA 2K13 did set a precedent for multiple cover players though, so it wouldn't surprise me if they did that again.

I'll agree with LeBron being on the NBA Live 14 cover, though I think he'll be in his Heat uniform.

Nice idea doing videos this year, too. (Y)
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube Channel


Image
Thanks to TheDee for the signature!
User avatar
Andrew
Old School Rose
Administrator
 
Posts: 87488
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Sat May 18, 2013 2:44 am

#2 Numbah two. Online and Gameplay added.


now with 100% more b-roll
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Sat May 18, 2013 10:36 pm

Single Player stuff added
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby julsnice on Mon May 20, 2013 2:51 am

Some of my predictions (graphics/presentation):

NBA 2k14:
-will continue down the road of accurately replicating broadcasted NBA games
-More in-game "commercials", maybe even some for their sponsors like Sprite, etc
-Sideline players will have towels. Players will wave and twirl towels when cheering/happy but you'll see players with towels over their heads when team play isn't good/losing
-TO shots of teams discussing plays/etc. will look more realistic
-New variations in audio commentary/crowd/player sideline reactions will reflect fluctuating level of excitement during the game


NBA Live 14:
-will STILL have manufactured animations instead of mo-capped animations
-player body models will STILL look stiff, still have very little movement in torsos, shoulders and hands
-will continue to create a stylized aesthetic
-overblown intro sequences for every team, every game no matter what
julsnice
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:46 am

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Mon May 20, 2013 6:09 am

julsnice wrote:NBA Live 14:
-will STILL have manufactured animations instead of mo-capped animations

Care to explain this? Live has had mo cap everything since at least 2001.
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Mon May 20, 2013 9:24 pm

Some bigger predictions today guys. Removing retro teams in favor of the return of decade teams? :crazyeyes:
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby gdaddy on Mon May 20, 2013 11:09 pm

F.... EA... They will not be putting NBA Live out for the PC.. They have already messed up every other sport on the PC.. No Nascar. football, baseball and I think Hockey. I hope they crash and burn with this Basketball. I will always buy NBA 2k reguardless of what EA's basketball does. I see KD being on the front cover of 2k... just saying
User avatar
gdaddy
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:59 am

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby julsnice on Tue May 21, 2013 3:49 am

JaoSming wrote:
julsnice wrote:NBA Live 14:
-will STILL have manufactured animations instead of mo-capped animations

Care to explain this? Live has had mo cap everything since at least 2001.


EA mocaps but they also edit the captures with hand-drawn animations and it's painfully obvious. They do the same with Madden/NCAA Football too; I remember seeing a video demonstrating it.
Just look at the running/dribbling animations dude, they've sucked for eternity now. I mean it usually results in tighter controls because the animations aren't canned and have less frames (hence them having that super-responsive crossover dribbling), but it also looks cartoony.
julsnice
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:46 am

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby julsnice on Tue May 21, 2013 3:59 am

JaoSming wrote:Some bigger predictions today guys. Removing retro teams in favor of the return of decade teams? :crazyeyes:


I think your prediction will turn out true
Doing decade teams trims the fat; they won't have to worry about non-star players and bench riders, accurate team/stadium representations, etc. And since this is the first game in the new generation of systems I expect them to go fairly bare-bones in terms of "extra content" and they will eventually build up to it in subsequent yearly releases.

Either that, OR they will go in total opposite direction and add even more year-specific teams, but the latter leaves little room for future improvement.
julsnice
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:46 am

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby Pdub on Tue May 21, 2013 5:38 am

julsnice wrote:
JaoSming wrote:
julsnice wrote:NBA Live 14:
-will STILL have manufactured animations instead of mo-capped animations

Care to explain this? Live has had mo cap everything since at least 2001.


EA mocaps but they also edit the captures with hand-drawn animations and it's painfully obvious. They do the same with Madden/NCAA Football too; I remember seeing a video demonstrating it.
Just look at the running/dribbling animations dude, they've sucked for eternity now. I mean it usually results in tighter controls because the animations aren't canned and have less frames (hence them having that super-responsive crossover dribbling), but it also looks cartoony.


Are you talking about this video? At 2:37, the mocap engineer starts to talks about the capturing proces and how a developer cleans it up and sends it to the devs so they can apply it to the model. I remember a 2K video a few years ago where the 2K devs were mocapping streetball and could put the animations in the game at the spot. That is such a huge difference and loos like it could really cut down on development times.
Image
User avatar
Pdub
I'm Inveencible!!
Administrator
 
Posts: 12387
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Pasadena, California, US

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby julsnice on Tue May 21, 2013 3:47 pm

Pdub wrote:
Are you talking about this video? At 2:37, the mocap engineer starts to talks about the capturing proces and how a developer cleans it up and sends it to the devs so they can apply it to the model. I remember a 2K video a few years ago where the 2K devs were mocapping streetball and could put the animations in the game at the spot. That is such a huge difference and loos like it could really cut down on development times.


I wasn't referring to that video but thanx for posting it, looks hot.

I was actually referring to a an NCAA game a few yrs ago, they showed a video where they mocapped a booster tossing a cheerleader in the air and catching her, and it looked perfect. But then they explained how instead of having her do actual spins in the air, they just changed the animation by hand to have her spin mid-air. The result didn't look as realistic.
julsnice
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:46 am

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby NIB on Tue May 21, 2013 5:16 pm

JaoSming wrote:Some bigger predictions today guys. Removing retro teams in favor of the return of decade teams? :crazyeyes:


Removing the retro teams, is like a shot on the foot, the EA Live Series did it in the past and almost ended forever... :wink:

2K Sports gotta extend them, i think it's literally the opposite thought. Why not extend users options, instead of cut them? Look at the NBA 2K12 sucess and the UBR Mod Pack over here in the forum. :cool:

Invest in history is a good business, even more when your competitor gotta a international Fiba license to explore. No logical reasons for the cut in my mind.
ATECUBANOS...
Yesterday... Carried the Piano - Today, Right Now... Playing the Piano - Tomorrow... Will Listen the Piano.

Working Here, Working There... Working Everywhere!

"Michael, you're not doing today! You ain't go doing today!!" - Dennis Rodman
User avatar
NIB
 
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:36 am
Location: Rio - Brasil / Gabriela, Eu te Amo meu Amor!

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Tue May 21, 2013 9:14 pm

Final video is uploading now, Next Gen features and X-Factors. Hope you all enjoyed in some capacity.
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby NIB on Tue May 21, 2013 10:36 pm

Nice videos Jao... (Y)

Agreed, expecting 2K Sports to get something big for the 2K14 Series Also agreed... EA gotta find a way to put their game on a Next Gen.
And about the time with children around... More then agreed! Heheheheh :D
ATECUBANOS...
Yesterday... Carried the Piano - Today, Right Now... Playing the Piano - Tomorrow... Will Listen the Piano.

Working Here, Working There... Working Everywhere!

"Michael, you're not doing today! You ain't go doing today!!" - Dennis Rodman
User avatar
NIB
 
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:36 am
Location: Rio - Brasil / Gabriela, Eu te Amo meu Amor!

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Wed May 22, 2013 4:51 am

I'll still wait until the cover is actually revealed, but most likely the best player on the Cavs will be on the cover....just the current best, not the best from a few years ago.
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby julsnice on Wed May 22, 2013 6:44 am

SMH

Even the CGI footage of NBA Live 14 looked crappy. Looked like the CGI trailers from last gen to tell the truth
julsnice
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:46 am

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Wed May 22, 2013 8:21 am

Yea....but since it was CGI, I'm going to give to wait until we see in-engine stuff before I red that "jaw-dropping" entry.
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Sat May 25, 2013 12:32 pm

screw it, giving myself credit for the Next Gen only release - https://twitter.com/EASPORTSNBA/status/ ... 6469062656

aaaaaand F it, LeBron isn't going to be on the cover of Live.
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:17 am

oh hai LeBron
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby Andrew on Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:25 pm

You did at least pick LeBron to appear on his first game cover, with a 50-50 shot of getting the game right...unless of course, there was a chance Majesco could've snapped him up to appear on the cover of LeBron James Presents: NBA Baller Beats 2.
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube Channel


Image
Thanks to TheDee for the signature!
User avatar
Andrew
Old School Rose
Administrator
 
Posts: 87488
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby velvet bliss on Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:49 pm

I consider each item double the weight. Jao's 0-2 now.
Image
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
Kenny on Create A Legend mode wrote:I was fumbling around with the controls and making a lot of mistakes. If you’re about realism in NBA games, but you lack the experience in this type of game mode, I’d suggest starting with a player like Kwame; it really does feel like an authentic experience straight off the bat.
User avatar
velvet bliss
NLSC's Jefferson Davis/The Questioneer
 
Posts: 21362
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:21 am
Location: In your mind

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:25 pm

shadowgrin wrote:I consider each item double the weight. Jao's 0-2 now.

no current gen release from Live, suck it
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby Andrew on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:32 pm

Still, not necessarily a cause for celebration. ;)
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube Channel


Image
Thanks to TheDee for the signature!
User avatar
Andrew
Old School Rose
Administrator
 
Posts: 87488
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:01 pm

2K14 NG, "Nothing too drastic"

if only there were a 2K dev before whom I could slap myself in the face.

also redded Live 14's graphical wowness. 2 strikes and you are out with those Live 13 models. Even the CG isn't wowing me as much as that 2K14, pre-alpha, glimpse.
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:16 am

forgot about synergy being confirmed for Live 14
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby Andrew on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:24 am

Seeing as though they renewed their partnership for NBA Live 13 last year and it's usually a multiyear deal, that was pretty much a given.
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube Channel


Image
Thanks to TheDee for the signature!
User avatar
Andrew
Old School Rose
Administrator
 
Posts: 87488
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:16 am

Hit me with that green baby!!
With fresh content and challenges on a daily basis, NBA LIVE 14 delivers a new experience each and every time you pick up the controller.

good enough for me
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:19 am

ESPN good
No Legendary Players bad (which is a good thing)
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby Andrew on Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:48 pm

That was definitely a surprise. I have a feeling that MJ's contract with 2K is exclusive though, so we probably won't be seeing him among the Legends.
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube Channel


Image
Thanks to TheDee for the signature!
User avatar
Andrew
Old School Rose
Administrator
 
Posts: 87488
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:20 am

oh definitely not. But this should help the Ultimate Team mode a lot.
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby Andrew on Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:58 am

Agreed. Nice to have them, regardless.
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube Channel


Image
Thanks to TheDee for the signature!
User avatar
Andrew
Old School Rose
Administrator
 
Posts: 87488
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:06 am

gone through due to the new information and updated the 2K14 stuff.
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby Andrew on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:52 am

In terms of NBA 2K14 innovating, we could still see that in next gen.
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube Channel


Image
Thanks to TheDee for the signature!
User avatar
Andrew
Old School Rose
Administrator
 
Posts: 87488
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:11 am

for the time being, the current gen doesn't seem to innovate anything much, so at worst I'll give half credit if NG does amazingness. Right now we just know there is no Crew, which doesn't help NG much
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:42 am

updated with 2K13's release and latest Live confirmation of no FIBA, whole lotta red
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:04 pm

all that's left is learning more about Live's Rising Star and Dynasty modes, then this will be done!
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont

Re: JaoSming's NBA 2K14 & NBA Live 14 Predictions

Postby JaoSming on Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:28 pm

All done! I suck!
User avatar
JaoSming
Guru
Administrator
 
Posts: 28942
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 am
Location: Vermont


Return to The Virtual Hardwood

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest