NBA Playgrounds

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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby zzcoolj21 on Wed May 10, 2017 6:57 pm

I haven't formed that strong of an opinion in either direction yet. The more I play the more I feel a version of Street Homecourt, stripped down a little, and put into more of a cartoonish artstyle. I actually enjoyed Homecourt. So I guess I lean a little more to the liking it side.

The crossovers really aren't crossovers in a normal basketball game sense. I think of them more as Anti-air moves in fighting games. They are really Anti-steals. Stamina depletes pretty quickly on both sides of the ball so I think there's balance there.

I forgot about rebounding. You can basically only user rebound. Your teammate will almost always stand still or jump away from the ball. Hopefully that gets patched.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Rodzilla91 on Wed May 10, 2017 6:59 pm

My gripes are how there's no clear indication when to release your shot, but eventually I was just pulling up from 30 ft and making it, granted the 3pt rating is high enough. The crossovers are a nice addition but I feel like they move you way farther than you would want to be. I also hate the timing for dunks, but if you have a high rated dunker (LBJ was max at 10) you should have NO problems dunking with them.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Andrew on Wed May 10, 2017 7:06 pm

I think I'm going to have to put it aside for a while (maybe until tomorrow) and give it a second look. Right now, everything about it frustrates me. In any case, my initial impressions are that it's pretty disappointing.

It makes me appreciate previous Jam and Street releases even more, though. Conventional wisdom always suggested that making a good arcade basketball game was easier than a good sim basketball game, but it's obviously more nuanced than that. When it comes to those games, I guess Midway and EA were just that good.

I'd agree that an on-screen indicator would be helpful, though it might also show how inconsistent the shot logic is. A score overlay would be nice as well.

I'm already getting doubles on card packs, having levelled up a couple of times. It's a good thing this game doesn't have microtransactions, as that'd be an obvious gouge.

I will give the game more of a chance, but my early impressions are overwhelmingly negative, which is a shame.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby zzcoolj21 on Wed May 10, 2017 7:16 pm

I'm not sure how far you are into tournament mode, but that final game has to be by far the most frustrated I've been. Shaq making perfect release half court 3's, AI stealing every ball, and a lot of offensive rebounds.

Everything I've seen online is very tame in comparison.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Andrew on Wed May 10, 2017 8:11 pm

I haven't gotten very far yet. It sounds like online is the better experience.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Rodzilla91 on Wed May 10, 2017 8:24 pm

yeah, that shaq & ai match was something else. some of the achievements or w.e are waaaaay too difficult to do if youre focusing on getting the W. during one match wall hit a fullcourt 3 on me at a shotclock and i was MAAAAAD.

and i really only have problems now with the offbalance shots, normal 3s are money for me. think of the shot as a quick release in 2k,
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Kenny on Wed May 10, 2017 11:58 pm

zzcoolj21 wrote:I'm not sure how far you are into tournament mode, but that final game has to be by far the most frustrated I've been. Shaq making perfect release half court 3's, AI stealing every ball, and a lot of offensive rebounds.

Everything I've seen online is very tame in comparison.


I found that game pretty easy to get through, despite the fact they were hitting perfect releases on all their initial shots. If you can get AI dunking the ball, he's pretty easy to block if you've got a big (my go to team is currently Bill Laimbeer and Thon Maker). I found Dirk and Magic to be a lot worse. Every dunk I went for, Dirk would annihilate my players in the air. Plus he has a ridiculous rate of hitting perfect shots as well. Dirk is definitely the cheesiest player in the game I've faced.

I kind of have a love-hate relationship with NBA Playgrounds so far. I was raging at the beginning because I was missing so many layups. When I finally figured it that it's basically about threes and dunks, I started to have a lot more fun with the game... even if it started to feel pretty one dimensional. I'm planning to go into more detail about my impressions in a feature post, so look out for that if you're interested.

One other thing I noticed is that, when it comes to the CPU, ratings don't really mean much. It's kind of evident when players like Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan are splashing 3s.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Andrew on Thu May 11, 2017 12:02 am

Kenny wrote:One other thing I noticed is that, when it comes to the CPU, ratings don't really mean much. It's kind of evident when players like Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan are splashing 3s.


I've noticed that too, and with Dwight Howard as well. Almost rage-quit after that.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Andrew on Thu May 11, 2017 1:20 am

So, trying for some more constructive critique, this is how I'd break it down after a couple more games this evening.

GOOD

  • The aesthetic is definitely a nice throwback to previous arcade basketball games.
  • The "action figure" aesthetic for players kind of works. It's certainly a distinctive look.
  • Controls are straightforward and reasonably familiar to anyone who's played NBA Jam or NBA Street.
  • The penalties for shoving are an interesting twist on the traditional arcade approach to rules, potentially encouraging cleaner play in user vs. user games.
  • XP is earned fairly quickly, especially upon winning. Earning packs and levelling up players seems like it won't be too much of a grind.
  • XP can be earned in all modes, though the amount is definitely not as generous in exhibition play.
  • You can start building up your card collection fairly quickly, with Legends and good players appearing in packs immediately.
  • The dunks look pretty cool. Definitely some nice Jam-inspired slams there.
  • The shorter games allow for more games in a single session, since they're over quicker.
  • Lack of microtransactions eliminates "pay to win", keeping the playing field even and making everyone earn a better roster of players. No gouging, either.
  • Exhibition games have options for time or score as the end/winning condition.

BAD

  • Controls are a bit stiff and unresponsive at times. There's times when I'll press block, and the player will just stand there.
  • Way too many shots miss, especially layups. Release timing is very inconsistent.
  • Too many alley-oops go awry.
  • Crossovers are kind of useless.
  • It's difficult to get into the right position for blocks and rebounds. Most rebounds are flat footed, and the CPU seems to have an unfair advantage.
  • CPU teammate logic is severely lacking. They're pretty much useless. They're even slow to respond when you manually command them to go for an alley-oop, steal, or shove.
  • Stamina drains way too quickly. One shove or a couple of steal attempts completely drains it, as does sprinting just a few feet.
  • Reducing the shot clock to twelve seconds was a terrible idea, especially with no onscreen display when it's getting low. When it gets halved to six seconds by the Lottery Pick boost...ugh.
  • The lack of a score overlay in general is frustrating.
  • CPU opponents block and steal way too easily, while holding onto the ball and evading blocks too easily at the other end.
  • The CPU can basically ignore player ratings. High ratings don't seem all that beneficial to the user, either.
  • Even on the easiest difficulty, the CPU is super cheesy and overpowered.
  • Lottery Pick boosts and points multipliers are far too cheesy.
  • Pump fakes are very sensitive. It's too easy to put up an attempt when you just want to get a defender to bite on the shot fake.
  • The downside of shorter games is that a slow start is a killer, since there's less time to make a comeback without four quarters.
  • Tournament mode could potentially be over quite quickly. Seems like there's way more value as a multiplayer game.
  • No head-to-head challenge/Play with Friends mode.
  • When there's extra time, the game just continues from where you're at. No reset for an inbound or jump ball. Some may like it, but I definitely don't.
  • The commentary is obnoxious. Tim Kitzrow it ain't. At least you can mute it.

PERSONAL NITPICKS

  • Modes are locked at the start of the game. It doesn't take too long to unlock them, but I really dislike that approach.
  • A minor one, but in the PAL release, player measurements are metric instead of imperial. It bugs me when NBA games do that; the league uses feet, inches and pounds, so too should all its licensed video games.
  • Players are hidden until they are unlocked. It'd be nice to have an in-game reference as to who is available to be unlocked; just shadow out their cards on the collection screen!
  • There seems to be only one music track in the game, which gets repetitive after a while. At least you can mute it.

In a nutshell, the gameplay feels clunky and unpolished, with overpowered AI opponents and clueless AI teammates. The modes are severely lacking in depth, especially compared to what we had in NBA Jam: On Fire Edition, or NBA Street Homecourt. There's also a confusing mix of sim and arcade elements in the game, with unforgiving release timing, especially on layups, and stamina that drains way too quickly. In fact, NBA 2K17, a sim game, is more forgiving on layup and timing and stamina usage! Overall, Saber Interactive have failed to create an experience that's anywhere near being on par with what Midway did over twenty years ago, or what EA did with its Jam games and the Street series alike.

There's potential in the game, but it's going to take a lot of fine tuning, and it's possible the engine they're using just isn't as good as what Midway and EA have worked with in the past. Unfortunately I got my hopes up a bit too much. If it's the first arcade basketball game you've played, you'll probably like it more, but for me, it pales in comparison to the classics. Like I said, calling it a poor man's NBA Jam would be being very generous. Scratching my head at the positive reviews it's getting; sadly, the bad far outweighs the good.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby TBM on Thu May 11, 2017 2:32 am

Layup timing is awful, and 3 pointers are waaay too easy for me to hit. I usually can go like 9/10 from 3 if I want. That said, I like the game, and am hopeful for improvements.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby [Q] on Thu May 11, 2017 2:34 am

Yeah the first time I jumped for a monster jam from the free throw line and missed, I was shocked. I adjusted so now I don't miss many dunks but I am like 20% shooting on lay ups. It's a bit frustrating to expect a dunk to find out your stamina is too low only to have your timing thrown off and you just miss the layup.

Also, half the time you try a jumper it does that fading or leaning animation and that's an automatic miss.

I've also stopped trying to jump for rebounds and using crossovers. Waste of stamina imo

Also, Dwight hit 2 four pointers on me in a game, but then I hit one with mutombo at the buzzer for the win lol. Wonder if those ratings really do anything.

Other than that, I've actually had fun playing it for a couple hours last night. My only gripe is that some ratings are a bit off and there isn't enough variety between players' ratings. Roy hibbert is actually a legitimately better option than mutombo lol

Oh and lebrons dancing takes way too long. I actually tried to stop dunking with him
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Rodzilla91 on Thu May 11, 2017 3:40 am

Shaq has a special dunking animation thing too haha, after he does like the worm and then pushes his arms out, pretty sure it has voice acting too (but i dont have my sound on too high so I can't tell)

But yeah the 3pt seems cheesy, I have dell curry and paul westphal at my disposal yet I'm draining pretty much every 3 with Magic.

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few pulls I took pics of.

Also I really like the graphics/visuals. My only gripe with those is that the motion blur or whatever really strains my eyes after playing for awhile. I wish there was a way to fix that, it's also a pain to try to screencap photos as most of the time you're gonna end up with whatever the HELL this is..

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And some people might not think about this too much, but I really love that they added individual jerseys for each player, basically giving the correct time frame, i.e. Karl Malone has the classic 90s Utah uni, Kevin Johnson with the 90s suns, etc
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby [Q] on Thu May 11, 2017 4:12 am

I wish grant hill had the late 90s magic jersey with all the stars on it
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby TBM on Thu May 11, 2017 5:33 am

[Q] wrote:I wish grant hill had the late 90s magic jersey with all the stars on it


When/if we figure out how to edit uasset files, that will be very possible.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Rodzilla91 on Thu May 11, 2017 6:27 am

Played some online and one game really stood out to me, connection was horrible (so bad that when I inbounded the ball on my screen it already had started like 4 seconds before I did), and the steals were very apparent. But besides that ONE game, the rest were fine. Of course 3pts are OP as hell so that's basically all we wanna shoot lol, I feel like blocking would benefit if you could do it from the side as well, at least at an angle, because this games way too fast paced to be able to line your dude up 100%, even if some shots are meant to fall.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby R4zoR on Thu May 11, 2017 6:47 am

Rodzilla91 wrote:Shaq has a special dunking animation thing too haha, after he does like the worm and then pushes his arms out, pretty sure it has voice acting too (but i dont have my sound on too high so I can't tell)

Yep, Shaq has recorded "taunting" vocals, they are located in the game files seperately from the other default "taunts"
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Also they made the game using Unreal Engine version 4.14
I tried opening their project file on a newer version, but it just needs conversions and all that other bs (which results in endless loading screens)
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby [Q] on Thu May 11, 2017 7:01 am

A lot of the stuff that Andrew felt was "bad" I felt was not bad, but just different from jam or street or what we were used to or expecting.

I don't mind the extra points on shots. It adds a bit of a twist and allows you to come back from like 10 down with a minute left.

I also don't mind the lottery pick boosts, as it adds an element of strategy that I've never had to think about in Jam. I actually try to play good defense on lightning ball possessions and the x2 dunks boost. On the dunks one, I try to milk the clock on offense kinda like how I'd try to kill game breakers in street vol. 2. Also, I play hard on the tip and first possession to try to get that extra point.

The short shot clock makes sense as you can basically inbound to half court plus it forces the action.

I actually like the way they did the stamina system. It prevents you from spamming turbo and steal buttons. I actually think about conserving stamina on defense depending on how low my guy is. The shoving tied to the lottery meter works as it discourages you from doing it too much like how they did fouls in NBA Showtime.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby [Q] on Thu May 11, 2017 7:05 am

R4zoR wrote:
Rodzilla91 wrote:Shaq has a special dunking animation thing too haha, after he does like the worm and then pushes his arms out, pretty sure it has voice acting too (but i dont have my sound on too high so I can't tell)

Yep, Shaq has recorded "taunting" vocals, they are located in the game files seperately from the other default "taunts"
[ Image ]
Also they made the game using Unreal Engine version 4.14
I tried opening their project file on a newer version, but it just needs conversions and all that other bs (which results in endless loading screens)

I've heard a "no no" clip a few times after getting blocks with mutombo
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Tha2KProphet on Thu May 11, 2017 7:08 am

Are we overreacting to a game that's only 20$ without a "Pay 2 Win" System ?
Try MY 2016/17 Roster For NBA 2K14

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My Thread: viewtopic.php?f=153&t=98403
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby CarolusXCI on Thu May 11, 2017 7:25 am

I think I played Midway's NBA Hangtime more than any other basketball game in my life, so inevitably I ended up trying to compare both those games all the time. Nostalgic feelings aside, unfortunatelly, I still have way more fun playing NBA Hangtime than I did with NBA Playgrounds. Even NBA Showtime: NBA on NBC for N64 was better (which actually was a very underrated game in my opinion).

- Timing dunks and layups is stupid. In the previous NBA Jam games (and in the NBA Hangtime as well), the player could miss a wide-open dunk occasionally. The ball would fly upwards, there was a special sfx for that and it was kind of a big deal because it was something unexpected. Here you miss those shots all the time, which sucks. Who cares if the timing is good or not? If the defense allowed an open lane to the basket, well, too bad. Try to shove the airborne opposing player, try to block the shot or else it's 2 points. It's always been like that. Timing should be applied only for jumpshots, and that's it.
- Momentum shots were implemented on NBA Hangtime for the first time and it worked perfectly back then. Players really looked like they were actual basketball players shooting off-balance shots. I have no idea how to describe those anims in this game.
- Dunk anims look cool. The feeling I had when I dunked the basketball is better than I ever had playing the previous games. Layups look very stupid though.
- AI players seem like they don't know what they're doing. If you have the electric ball, why would you use it on a layup??? If you're losing by 15, why would you milk the clock and shoot a 15 footer? Why was the AI from a 20-year-old game so much better? EDIT: Changed the difficulty and it seems better.
- Rebounds are erratic and make no sense. In NBA Hangtime, the player would fly towards the ball when you jumped. If the guy had a good "hidden" rebound attribute, he would grab the ball. If not, the ball would end up in someone elses's hands. It was simple as that, and made rebounding one of the best parts of the gameplay in my opinion. Very rarely the ball would return to the ground unclaimed.
- Blocking is frustrating. EDIT: Just had 12 blocks with David Robinson. Maybe I just have to get used to it.
- I miss being able to control only one player. Is there an option to do that?
- Why would you show real-life stats from each player? How cares about their free-throw stats if there isn't even FT's in the game? It would be much better IMO if they showed in game stats on the stats page (total 3 point fg's by Kidd, rebounds by David Robinson and so on).
- Evolving players sounds like NBA Pokemon or something.
- Couldn't care less about lack of gameplay modes. Back then we only had either exhibition or tournament, and it was fun nevertheless.
- Jerseys are very cool.
- Courts are cool too, even though I hope each team had its own court (the arena could be generic, just like in NBA Jam/Hangtime). In NBA Hangtime you could press turbo + 3 times left during the loading screen and you could play on a rooftop court.
- Visual effects suck (except the electric ball and the glowing shoes). I hope they give us an option to turn those off.
- Desktop icon is awesome, very retro.

It's a good game, but not nearly as good as NBA Hangtime or NBA Jam. Maybe it's unfair to compare any other game to those masterpieces by Midway.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Jonny2k on Thu May 11, 2017 8:13 am

Can we edit and import back to the game the background characters at this time?
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby R4zoR on Thu May 11, 2017 8:32 am

We are able to change some of the stuff, like localization files ( names + those random facts)
But before any texture edits, this is kinda eh, but hey atleast it works.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Andrew on Thu May 11, 2017 11:41 am

[Q] wrote:A lot of the stuff that Andrew felt was "bad" I felt was not bad, but just different from jam or street or what we were used to or expecting.

I don't mind the extra points on shots. It adds a bit of a twist and allows you to come back from like 10 down with a minute left.

I also don't mind the lottery pick boosts, as it adds an element of strategy that I've never had to think about in Jam. I actually try to play good defense on lightning ball possessions and the x2 dunks boost. On the dunks one, I try to milk the clock on offense kinda like how I'd try to kill game breakers in street vol. 2. Also, I play hard on the tip and first possession to try to get that extra point.

The short shot clock makes sense as you can basically inbound to half court plus it forces the action.

I actually like the way they did the stamina system. It prevents you from spamming turbo and steal buttons. I actually think about conserving stamina on defense depending on how low my guy is. The shoving tied to the lottery meter works as it discourages you from doing it too much like how they did fouls in NBA Showtime.


That's a fair point, and in theory, it's not a bad idea to have some differences to distinguish it from previous arcade basketball games. However, different isn't always better, and I think they made some bad choices.

That said, I don't mind some of the concepts, so much as their execution. The stamina system is a good example. It's a good idea to implement strategy and limit spamming, but it's too harsh. Like I said, a sim game like NBA 2K17 is more forgiving with its approach to stamina usage. It feels like you've only got one shot at doing anything that drains the stamina bar on one play, and if it doesn't work, you're screwed for the rest of the play. You might say that's a realistic risk/reward factor, but the severity of it is out of place in a game where you're soaring above the rim for 30 foot dunks, and gaining magical power-ups. It's kind of picking and choosing when it comes to elements of realism, in a game that isn't meant to be realistic.

I'd say the benefit of the extra points is that they allow someone to make an unlikely comeback with little time remaining. I'd say the downside of the extra points is that they allow someone to make an unlikely comeback with little time remaining. If nothing else, I think that the boosts happen too often, especially from the Lottery Pick bar. It feels a bit cheap as a result, like rubberband AI.

I wouldn't mind the shot clock as much if there was an onscreen display. Like I said, the lack of a score overlay bothers me in general.

I also think that a lot of this stuff would bother me less if the game's controls felt better, and the AI wasn't so useless. When it feels like half the challenge comes from clunky controls and teammates who don't help out at all, it feels like artificial difficulty.

Tha2KProphet wrote:Are we overreacting to a game that's only 20$ without a "Pay 2 Win" System ?


No, "we" are not. The notion that we can't critique a game just because of the price point or the fact that it mercifully doesn't have a "pay to win" system is absurd. It's fair to have expectations, and to compare it to other games in the same genre. It's fair to have standards, regardless of the price point.

CarolusXCI wrote:Couldn't care less about lack of gameplay modes. Back then we only had either exhibition or tournament, and it was fun nevertheless.


That's fair, and I agree, it was sufficient back in the day. Times have changed though, and we've seen what can be done with game modes in arcade basketball games. I should also clarify that I'm not suggesting a bunch of modes - that's more appropriate for a sim game than an arcade one - but I think that the length and depth of the tournament mode could be better. When EA combined the Classic Campaign and Remix Tour to create Road Trip in OFE, it was great. You had the classic tournament structure, with bonus challenges and some remixed gameplay that kept things fresh. Even if you're not doing that, the tournament structure of those old games still felt better and deeper than what's on offer here.

It feels like the single player offline experience is going to be over and done with fairly quickly, with most of the ongoing experience being online. Sure, online is big these days, but the ratio still doesn't seem right to me.

CarolusXCI wrote:Maybe it's unfair to compare any other game to those masterpieces by Midway.


Perhaps, but at the end of the day it's inevitable, because those games are the benchmark. I mean, EA's Jam games were compared to the originals, and in my opinion, unfairly panned as a result (those two games are severely underrated). If NBA Playgrounds had been developed by EA, I'd bet that a lot of people would be far less forgiving of its problems. It's not like Saber Interactive are a brand new indie start-up or anything, either. They've been in the game since 2003.

There are some good ideas here, but the execution just isn't very good.
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby Dee4Three on Fri May 12, 2017 12:13 am

Andrew wrote:It feels like the single player offline experience is going to be over and done with fairly quickly, with most of the ongoing experience being online. Sure, online is big these days, but the ratio still doesn't seem right to me.


This.

I havn't picked the game up, but I had a feeling that would be the case (Which is why I havn't picked it up). Offline players just don't get the attention we deserve anymore....
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Re: NBA Playgrounds

Postby zzcoolj21 on Fri May 12, 2017 12:34 am

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PRETTY DECENT PACK
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