NBA Live 07 Wishlist Supplement

[Andrew]

If there's one failing of our annual Wishlist, it's that with such a long list of point form suggestions it's hard to describe our most desired improvements and fixes in the NBA Live series. Therefore, I've written up a Wishlist Supplement. Similar to my "perfect NBA Live 06" feature last year, it outlinessome of the little things (and a couple of the bigger things too) that could really make NBA Live 07 a great game.

NBA Live 07 Wishlist Supplement

Last edited by Andrew on Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

As always - great job Andrew! Very insightful and well-written. You're a great ambassador to all Live fans, I can only hope your write-up makes its way to the development team & decision makers...

The thing that struck me the most (and bugs me the most) regarding gameplay is that there is seemingly no difference between attributes as they relate to body size, weight and such. That's the reason you can have a 6-0, 185 PG continually in the paint lofting up lay-ups over 6-11, 7-0 280 pound C's and PF's.

In reading through your analysis, it occurred to me that what they really should consider doing is building several - let's say 15 - different prototypes of players - 5 sets of 3: three types of PG's, 3 SG's, and so forth. The player attributes would be inherently tied to (and capped by) the internal logic of each player type, so there could be clear differences between these groupings of players, with size-weight playing a significant role in the relationships of player attributes. Thus the in-game effects of speed, quickness, strength, for instance would be bound by the parameters of the position, with various attributes of one prototype having an advantage over an other, just like in real life.

Power players' (C & PF) attributes of strength, inside scoring, blocks, rebounds would have an advantage over those of PG's, SG's, SF's player prototypes.

A 7-0, 280 C's 80 strength rating would be higher - in-game - than a 98 strength rating 6-4, 180 SG. A PG with 85 quickness will - man on man - always show more in-game quickness than a PF with the same 85 quickness rating.

At PG you could have a playmaker, a scorer & a penetrator type PG prototype. Each would have attributes which are prioritized per grouping. You could go down the list and delineate the attribute-on-attribute relationships, mostly tied to size and weight. This would work first within the position grouping, than set-up to establish how the ratings actually work in the game.

These differences in attributes per position prototype could be ever so slight. It should not be a significant advantage, but it would impact gameplay, being able to beat a defender off the dribble, for instance.

I think the formula would be realistic for about 98% of the players in the NBA, which would be a huge step forward to where gameplay is today.

A real re-thinking of how players interact (via their attributes) on the court is needed, imo, for the game to take the next step.

Sorry for the long-winded post, cheers, tibs

Last edited by Tibs on Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thank you for your wonderful work!

I hope most of the ideas will be done
then it would be a great pleasure to play NBA Live 07

thx&bye
d.

Steve Nash scores more than Amare Stoudemire.

lol

I noticed that myself and it really bugged me. Because I love simulation type games so much it really bugs me when something isnt true to life so even the point about guards getting insane amounts of rebounds goes into the list of flaws I see.

As always - great job Andrew! Very insightful and well-written. You're a great ambassador to all Live fans, I can only hope your write-up makes its way to the development team & decision makers...

The thing that struck me the most (and bugs me the most) regarding gameplay is that there is seemingly no difference between attributes as they relate to body size, weight and such. That's the reason you can have a 6-0, 185 PG continually in the paint lofting up lay-ups over 6-11, 7-0 280 pound C's and PF's.

What you wrote on this really makes the point well, as far as lightning quick guards unable to snatch the ball from lazy behemoths and such.

In reading through your analysis, it occurred to me that what they really should consider doing is building several - let's say 15 - different prototypes of players - 5 sets of 3: three types of PG's, 3 SG's, and so forth. The player attributes would be inherently tied to (and capped by) the internal logic of each player type, so there could be clear differences between these groupings of players, with size-weight playing a significant role in the relationships of player attributes. Thus the in-game effects of speed, quickness, strength, for instance would be bound by the parameters of the position, with various attributes of one prototype having an advantage over an other, just like in real life.

For instance power players' (C & PF) attributes of strength, inside scoring, blocks, rebounds would have an advantage over those of PG's, SG's, SF's player prototypes.

A 7-0, 280 C's 80 strength rating would be higher - in-game - than a 98 strength rating 6-4, 180 SG. A PG with 85 quickness will - man on man - always show more in-game quickness than a PF with the same 85 quickness rating.

For instance, take PG. You could have a playmaker, a scorer & a penetrator type PG prototype. Each would have attributes which are prioritized per grouping. You could go down the list and delineate the attribute-on-attribute relationships, mostly tied to size and weight. This would work first within the position grouping, than set-up to establish how the ratings actually work in the game.

penetrating PG's quickness > greater than
scorer PG's quickness > greater than
playmaker PG's quickness.

or

playmaker PG's dribble >
penetrating PG's dribble >
scorer PG's dribble.

These differences in attributes per position prototype could be ever so slight. It should not be a significant advantage, but it would impact gameplay, being able to beat a defender off the dribble, for instance.

Then, you could start establishing the attribute relationships between various sets of players:

penetrating PG's speed & quickness > greater than
slasher SG's speed & quickness = equal to
slasher SF's speed & quickness > greater than
inside scorer PF speed & quickness > greater than
inside scorer C speed & quickness.

And it would work in reverse with the bigs:

inside scorer C's strength & inside scoring =
inside scorer PF's strength & inside scoring >
slasher SF's strength & inside scoring >
slasher SG's strength & inside scoring >
penetrating PG's strength & inside scoring.

This is just one example of literally hundreds & hundreds of calculations that could (should) be done to get gameplay to be as realistic as possible.

Of course there would be a few exeptions to the case, and those freakish players that surpass height-weight limitations and stand out of the group, dealing with those would be a separate issue, ie an Iverson who can and does indeed score over just about anyone. But I think the formula would be realistic for about 98% of the players in the NBA, which would be a huge step forward to where gameplay is today.

Thus, I don't know if what I wrote is even slightly understandable, or if others have pointed out something similar (surely), but a real re-thinking of how players interact (via their attributes) on the court is needed, imo, for the game to take the next step.

Sorry for the long-winded post, cheers, tibs

Good points But it seems to me like EA, unlike most things in their resume, seem to be able to nail this the best.

I know that in most versions over NBA Live, there is usually a clear height or quickness advantage.

Although with that said, it seems height and quickness only have their advantages in their certain versions. I.e. Live04 was all about height. And Live 05 and 03 were mainly quickness and speed. Live06, although personally completely disatisfied with the friggin game, seems to have the best equibralim (no idea how to spell that) between height and quickness.

Although it would be good if EA thought more thoroughly about these issues. I think there are greater issues for EA to worry about first.

Well written, I agree with Begley's opinons especially about Patching and Modding, Legends, Custom Teams, Stats Display, and porting from the PC version to console.
I highly doubt the porting from PC to console versions will happen soon since the NBA Live team has admitted from interviews, articles, etc. that they are more focused on the consoles.
Bring back the comprehensive stat display of old Lives!

The ability for all players to interrupt a dunk or layup animation to pass off to a teammate is essential. Even NBA Live 95 boasted how the user could make mid-air decisions.

Andrew zinged EA on this one.

Thanks for the comments, glad you liked the article.

Interesting thoughts Tibs, though it might present a problem with simulated stats since they're based on the ratings these days. That system would need to be re-worked if each body type/player type utilised the ratings differently.

Andrew zinged EA on this one.

Not really intentional that one, since I know what it feels like to be in the position of having put a lot of work into something and then having it torn down without any kind of constructive criticism offered. But I did feel it was necessary to point out we have lost some of the neat little features that don't immediately come to mind that were present in earlier editions.

Team shoes... automatically matching colors... and for superstars like Kobe, Vince, Lebron, etc. they can get their own shoes. Iunno it just bothers me how players get traded or how they wear like orange shoes on the Bulls... nothing major, just something simple...

If they keep the superstar thing again, they should make it that the higher the rating, the better the moves they preform.

Great write-up Andrew.
If EA fix the majority of those problems (and some of them probably wouldn't be that difficult at all), then we should be in for an outstanding game in Live 07. I am drooling with anticipation at what could be already

Nice stuff Andrew. I notice you didn't mention cyberfaces (correct me if I'm wrong) imo this issue really gets to me especially with dynasty and the generic players. It was good when it was last in live 04 but portraits do add some realism to the presentation though i reckon ea should give us an option where u can have either style. btw on the dynasty thing they should put more names in it and use nba players' names, u see oyango like 100000000000000000 times.

Team shoes... automatically matching colors... and for superstars like Kobe, Vince, Lebron, etc. they can get their own shoes. Iunno it just bothers me how players get traded or how they wear like orange shoes on the Bulls... nothing major, just something simple...

nice idea. ea should try and add other nba licenced shoes brands like and1, converse, the chinese shoe companies (4get their names, damon jones is sponsored by one) etc.

fingers crossed that quite alot of everyones ideas make it into 07!

If EA fix the majority of those problems (and some of them probably wouldn't be that difficult at all), then we should be in for an outstanding game in Live 07. I am drooling with anticipation at what could be already

That's a big IF. Don't get your hopes up and waste your saliva, drooler.

Nice stuff Andrew. I notice you didn't mention cyberfaces (correct me if I'm wrong) imo this issue really gets to me especially with dynasty and the generic players. It was good when it was last in live 04 but portraits do add some realism to the presentation though i reckon ea should give us an option where u can have either style.

I didn't actually mention it, but I do agree that it would be better to have the option of viewing the cyberface or the photo portrait. I mainly focused on gameplay and Dynasty in the article since if those elements aren't enjoyable then it doesn't really matter what other small touches are in the game. But I did try to touch on the small touches as well.

very well put Andrew


hope they listen

In my latest Dynasty game, even though I won some of the problems I was talking about reared their ugly heads again. Specifically, the offensive rebounding and the difficult shots despite good defense. On one possession the Celtics had about five or six offensive rebounds (with some tip attempts) despite the fact my bigs were boxing out and right in there with good position. Sometimes it evens itself out but it does need to be fixed.

The CPU actually wasn't too bad with its selective abilities this time...or perhaps I'm getting better at anticipating the comeback code. Anyway, I too hope the feature will be able to add to the Wishlist by highlighting the problems that really need fixing.

How about allowing off the ball controlled players to set picks?

I'm pretty sure that was in the main Wishlist. In this article I focused more on issues that really need to be resolved such as the CPU's strategy, problems with Dynasty Mode etc.

tha was a great supplement you put up

I agree that the Player trade system should be updated.

I've been playing Civilisations IV lately and have found that the trading system implemented in Civ 4 is quite good.
I could offer a trade and the opposing team could reject. I could also place something to trade on the table and then ask the CPU what they would give me for that item. If they like it they would offer something that they have that i dont or they would say that they dont want to trade.... after that i then have the option to follow through with the trade or cancel negotiations.
I believe this could be implemented quite easily into NBA live 07 and would make for a good update to the current system.

would be nice to be able to set a "stop" durin simulating ie the option to stop if someone offers u a trade,of if someone is injurred-rather than just the alerts

good job...hope the ea crew really pay attention to this...

I would like for EA to finally take body mass into consideration and fix their stupid body forcefields.

For example, Chauncey Billups has no hope of ever moving Shaq.

I would like there to be a baseline level of athletic ability in the game... Some players move way too slowly to have ever played a game in the NBA and that's not at all accurate.

I would like for tip-ins to occasionally miss.

I would like the computer to stop automatically making me alter my shot when a simple dunk would not only actually go in but not draw an offensive foul.

I would like it to be 1000x simpler to shoot a hook shot, which I have yet to successfully accomplish in Live 06 without the aid of the Inside Scorer superstar thing.

I would VERY much like for the computer to stop getting away with hip-checking me when I try to cross them over, because that's really stupid...

And in line with that, it'd be nice to have that WORK once in a while instead of the computer recovering instantly.

Chauncey Billups has no hope of ever moving Shaq.

Why not? Kobe was able to move Shaq to Miami.

Chauncey Billups has no hope of ever moving Shaq.

Why not? Kobe was able to move Shaq to Miami.

Har dee har har.

add:

-Signs after players do good plays or dunks
-Vince (RimRockers sign)
-Stromile (Birdman)
-Also signs after big shots for the win
-Jordan (fist)
-More variety of alley opps
-Pre game rituals
-add some "hangtime" in the game
-all player dont jump the same during game play

Its already been submited