Constructing a verbal display of our grievances.

[quote="Nick"][color=indigo][b]
If there's bad press all over the media (the media being the internet in this case) about Live07, then that is bad business. There's your incentive...[/b][/color][/quote]

how can this be true if people are still buying the game regardless of how well the game is reviewed?

Is it bad business to make crap movies that people will pay to watch? NOPE, because people pay to watch it

Is it bad business when EA makes crap games that people will buy? NOPE, because people pay to play it.

Low development costs + people still buying the game > high development costs + people still buying the game.

i read most of it and it sounds really good id sign it if im considered a "big community member"

Exellent Letter.

but...

As long as EA are getting the most sales and making the most money I doubt they really give a shit about your letter.

The only thing thats going to make them do anything is if they stop making so much money out of it.

Honestly thats what people have to start to think about if they want anything to happen.

How can we stop EA making so much money from this garbage they put on the shelves?

wow

thats a great letter man

no one on nlsc could have said it better

top stuff sign me up

who here can be bothered making a video to my on youtube? because that would work well to at least get a few more people involved

Sign me up too man. EA is gunna get my full blow on dem and maybe the full NLSC blow.

Exellent Letter.

but...

As long as EA are getting the most sales and making the most money I doubt they really give a shit about your letter.

The only thing thats going to make them do anything is if they stop making so much money out of it.

Honestly thats what people have to start to think about if they want anything to happen.

How can we stop EA making so much money from this garbage they put on the shelves?

point is, if we send this to ign/other gaming sites, put videos on youtube etc, other people can see how bad it is, and not buy it.

Good letter. But seriously, like what you mention in the letter, EA dont give a shit. Chances is, they receive this, print this out, fold into an airplane, and fly it to this romm where they collect all those fan mails where it is stamp " I DUN GIVE A SHIT" by EA

it's not only intended for EA. if we send it to IGN, GameSpot etc, there'll be enough bad reviews that no-one buys the game. no-one buys the game, ea loses money. hey presto, ea suddenly loses their constipation and gives a giant shit.

There is already many videos showing Live's faults, someone should start compiling them into a collage.

With that said, all these letters and complaints to EA are all in vain. The only way you guys ( live fans) are going to get thier attention is buy NOT BUYING THIER PRODUCTS. You think live sucks? DON'T buy it then.

I agree with that. Matthew said that yesterday as well. That's probably the best way to do it, but a combination of not buying it and sending out mass petitions/letters in addition is even better.

I like the idea of setting up a MySpace page, these things seem more official when they have a MySpace page. Much like the WWE wrestler Kane, who now also has a MySpace. I'll sign whatever, I'm not buying this piece of shit and I have no intention of playing it either so I'm just going to listen to the majority and avoid it completely.

Much like the WWE wrestler Kane, who now also has a MySpace

I'm guessing that you're still not over the surprise/shock when you found out Kane has a MySpace.

Shouldn't it be in there stating that ALL platforms of the game is flawed, not just next gen and pc..because if im correct don't most people buy the PS2 version?

As long time NBA Live fans, some of us even from when EA was putting "vs." in their titles, we have been around the block with EA many times. Most of us have gone beyond mere fans into "fanatics" spending countless man-hours on fan sites or making modifications or patches for the games. Even those of us who have not, have spent as many hours involving ourselves in an ever expanding community of other NBA Live fans. If anyone deserves the tag "hardcore fan" it's us. We have stuck by EA and NBA Live in the face of serious competition from the 2K series.

For us however, NBA Live 07 is the final straw. The one that broke the camel's back. The spark that set the field ablaze. Until this release we overlooked any flaws in the game, ones that some of us considered major even if others of us considered them minor. But this release has ignited feelings that EA doesn't care about its fans, which is the reason we are writing today.

Whether EA does or does not care about its fans, the bigger issue is perception, and the image that EA presents is that they don't care. Every year, we as a community submit one or more wishlists, often with the same wishes from year to year. A lack of implementation of the wishes sows seeds of belief that EA isn't paying attention. When EA releases a game in which the CPU won't even use its bench, and overrides user substitutions, it sows seeds that EA doesn't care and just wanted to cash in. When major online media do not recieve review copies, it leads to the belief that EA knew the product was defective but proceeded anyway. When community members contact EA and receive a response that seems to imply EA isn't too interested in fixing the problems, and telling us to wait until the next game, it does quite a bit of harm to our faith in the company.

While we'd love a patch to fix the major issues with the game, that is not the major focus of our letter, as we have a patch petition for that. Our focus is not simply on this release, but a sense that we also see in other EA-related communities whether it's the NFL gaming community or the people who play Battlefield 2.

At one time, EA was producing the best titles money could buy and one had little reason to look elsewhere. Now gamers have a sense that if you want the best, it's not EA. Whether it's looking at the NBA 2K series for our basketball game fix, users leaving Battlefield 2 because they feel the problems will never be addressed, or former FIFA players moving onto Pro Evolution/Winning Eleven, it's a sense that we are all sharing. We look at NBA Live over the last few years and we see the same basic game being re-released with new fancy features. The same elemental problems from the last few years are still there, some have been tweaked but the overall issues still exist. While there are plenty of new features, it gives the impression that EA is saying in response to the lingering issues "yeah, well, HEY! Look at this!" Be it All-Star Weekend (a long time wish that EA has in fact fulfilled), superstar moves or dynasty additions. While those additions are nice to have, it is piling on a base that cannot support it. Instead of addressing the underlying fractures, EA is just constructing a new structure on the old crumbling foundation.

As alluded to earlier, it's not just the practice of EA's actions as much as the perception. EA is often criticized for rushing out products, going back on its word and ignoring fans. While EA may or may not be doing that, when one hears these things, it's easy to fit what the company is doing into that mold. It doesn't help when we look at other communities, where the game developers openly participate on the forums and seem to be actively involved in the community. While EA has made overtures to the NBA Live community over the years, whether it was hiring Tim, holding Community Summit/Days, participating in interviews or sharing screenshots and videos, it still seems like EA is distant and uninvolved in the community. Even if we have an inkling EA is reading the forums daily, the impression is still there that they aren't paying attention at all. Some of us are looking for little more than EA explaining why they did or didn't do something in the game, for acknowledgement of issues or ideas presented, for assistance in greater understanding of the game.

When we find major issues in the game and hear nothing from EA. When we take the steps to contact EA and get a response that seems to do more to harm our opinion than satisfy us. And when we're told we shouldn't share what EA has told us. It all serves to reinforce our negative perceptions. If this continues it seems inevitable that more and more players will eventually give up on NBA Live.

The question that we're increasingly asking ourselves becomes, while we're willing to put in the effort to improve the game, is EA?

Signed,
Ben Bailey (nbalive.org founder/webmaster, fmr. Patchmaker, community member 1998-present)
David Wells (Community entrepreneur, Patchmaker, fmr. nbalive.org webmaster, community member 1996-present)
Andreas Dahl (NLSC Team Member, Patchmaker, NLSC Forum Moderator, community member 2002-present)
Matthew Damian (NLSC Features Editor, NLSC Forum Moderator, fmr. NLSC webmaster, community member 1998-present)
Tony Huml (fmr. Patchmaker, nbalive.org founder, community member 1997-present)
Jae Hatton (NLSC Team Member, NLSC Forum Moderator, community member 1999-present)
Nick Barnshaw (Community member 2001-present, fmr. Patchmaker, fmr. nbalive.org forum moderator)
Kevin Choi (Patchmaker, fmr. nbalive.org Patching Director, nbalive.org forum moderator, community member 2003-present)
Cameron Forbes (NLSC Team Member, NLSC Forum Moderator, community member 2003-present)
Donatello (NLSC Team Member, NLSC Forum Moderator, community member 2004-present)
Joseph Papio (Community member 2001-present)
Cyanide (Community member 2003-present)
Jackal (Community member 2003-present)

ADDENDUM: On the NLSC Forum (largest NBA Live Community Forum) there have been petitions started for a patch for the PC version (http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic41682.php) and bringing the 2K series to the PC (http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic41939.php)

Community members have also been compiling videos of some bugs some of which can be found on YouTube, here is a sample:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCif0ZGH8Nc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7rQaoNHu0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBGEJUww9ck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvnv4rCtm2Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS_N9jwmeA8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rTthKlwIAo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFqTNcVPktc

I would like, if possible, real names for the members I don't have them for. (PM/IM if you want privacy on the forum, if you provide them I will put them on the letter that's sent out.) I'm also interested in signatures from a Mr. Begley and Mr. Bailey if possible.

Also any corrections to information (years of service, patchmaking I didn't know about, etc.) is welcome.

For all intents and purposes, barring major disagreement, this is the letter that will be sent out by me, roughly twelve-sixteen (I might delay sending until the morning because I'd like to give Aussies a chance to read it) hours from now. If your name is not on this "instance" of the letter, it is because as I stated the first mailing will only include the most prominent members (as determined by me unfortunately) and future mailings will include as many members as possible.

The addendum is only planned on being sent to the media, so as to assist them if they wish to link to the efforts or videos. EA will merely recieve the letter part.

Looking forward to further input.

Jackal - Sagar Sengupta.

I'm all for this, I'll sign whatever but hear me out:

Maybe it isn't EA? Maybe they've done all they could? Maybe its simply, blatantly a LACK of talent.

You can't make a Honda Civic beat a Ferrari. You can't put a square in a triangle.

Honestly, after they said "We deleted the entire code for previous Lives and started anew" and after I saw the game and realized it's nothing new more of the same with extra gimmicks(FSS is the biggest gimmick in gaming history it's utterly pathetic in terms of fun and gameplay mechanic), I realized they just can't compete, 2K and VC are fresh minds, they're infinitely more talented than EA and EA will never make a basketball game better than 2K. And 2K still hasn't implemented All-Star festivities.

In summation, we can send wishlists, we can complain about bugs and about quality and about customer care, but in the end we're beating a dead horse because EA just doesn't have the minds to do it right.

Sorry to disrupt the seriousness of this topic/thread but those videos of Kidd "calling a cab" and Battier trying to throw a bowling ball just cracked me up. Tears just welled in my eyes because of laughter.

OK, back on track:

In all seriousness Jackal, your name looks and sounds cool.

The addendum is only planned on being sent to the media, so as to assist them if they wish to link to the efforts or videos. EA will merely recieve the letter part.

IMHO, also include the addendum part to the letter that will be received by EA. It does two purposes:
- It shows that the flaws are serious that gamers are spending time just to make videos of it, and that the community is serious (the petitions) about this thing.
- It shows transparency/honesty on the community's part. We don't want to give a wrong impression when EA sees that the letter they received has a part missing from the ones received by the gaming sites. We don't want to imitate what EA support personnel has done to Donatello.

Last edited by shadowgrin on Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Kidd "calling a cab"

That had to be the biggest shock of Live this year, I couldn't believe what the fuck was happening when I watched that video.

In all seriousness Jackal, your name looks and sounds cool.

In all honesty, it isn't.

I shall put my hancock on this motherfucker, because NBA Live sucks doo doo

If your name is not on this "instance" of the letter, it is because as I stated the first mailing will only include the most prominent members (as determined by me unfortunately)

so can us less prominent people still sign?

Maybe it isn't EA? Maybe they've done all they could? Maybe its simply, blatantly a LACK of talent.

EA is a huge, huge company. They have top money to acquire top talent, but they're definitely rushing products which reduces the quality. Really, all they care about is profit, and as long as we keep buying from them, they won't care.

I shall put my hancock on this motherfucker, because NBA Live sucks doo doo

Gotta love the Texan accent.

Benji, great letter, will PM my name.

With those new additions, this letter is actually looking very professional and effective. Good stuff Hopefully it can get the point across.

Nice, my videos being used for a practical purpose!

You can't imagine the confusion I experienced when I tried to inbound that ball with Battier. There were 50 seconds or so left in the game, and I was determined to score 9 straight with T-Mac to steal a win, then someone switched out the basketball with a large orange medicine ball

How many games did you have to play to record those videos? I counted only 4 matchups, 4 games and you saw all those bugs? Horrendous.