about players' improvement

[Blazers]

i don't kow how to say this but i was thinking about in the dynasty mode when the season starts, it should be a place where it would say like top 5 players or players that their rating really inclined and on the other side other players that their rating declined. that way we would know who really improved from the previous year!!!

[Andrew]

Agreed, more graphs, charts and stat screens couldn't hurt.

[MaD_hAND1e]

Yea, Live 2000 was great for having these charts and graphs.

[Kemp]

I saw those graph on NBA Inside Drive 2000 demo but not on LIVE.

[Sauru]

personally i think they need to make player improvements more realistic. i dont like when i play a rookie constantly, he gets 20-10 his rookie year then in season 2 he is 3 overall worse. then at the same time his back up who never played got 1 overall better. it pisses me off to be honest.

[Andrew]

I saw those graph on NBA Inside Drive 2000 demo but not on LIVE.

NBA Live 2000 didn't have a great number of charts and graphs, but it did have a couple.

[Silky Smooth Vlade]

I agree 110% with Sauru. I drafted a huge center, like 7'4". His rating was in the low 60's, maybe even high 50's, can't remember. Anyways, I was weak at the center position, so I gave him the starting spot. He did great, lead the league in blocked shots, decent scoring, great assists for a C, made the all-star team. Then come next season and his rating stayed exactly the same. If EA could somehow make ratings dependent on playing time - stats - and real life factors, because as it is, it all just seems random.

Also, I have an idea, I'm sure it's been propsed about a million times, but it reminds me of this thread, so I'll just say it...

I remember in Madden '05, player's agents would email you and tell you what the players were thinking, and if you put a certain player on the trading block, they would be unhappy. Well, that is fine and dandy, but if it doesn't actually affect me, what is the point. I think Live should have this, but take it another step. If a player is unhappy about something, their rating should go down, that way there is actually a reason for me trying to keep players happy. Otherwise, the whole player personality thing just seems pointless to me.

But yeah, team chemistry, and player development, etc... is just as important as gameplay to me. When this kind of stuff is done right, it makes Dynasty mode about 20x funner, which is the main reason I play Live.

[Otsa76]

Id be fine with total stats bar...

[Andrew]

I remember in Madden '05, player's agents would email you and tell you what the players were thinking, and if you put a certain player on the trading block, they would be unhappy. Well, that is fine and dandy, but if it doesn't actually affect me, what is the point. I think Live should have this, but take it another step. If a player is unhappy about something, their rating should go down, that way there is actually a reason for me trying to keep players happy. Otherwise, the whole player personality thing just seems pointless to me.

Not a bad idea in theory, but players don't exactly decline in skill when they're unhappy, though they could very well stop giving 100% effort. However, a player happiness/contentment meter could come into play if a player is a free agent at the end of the year; I'm not sure how one could work ratings into the equation in a realistic manner though the idea of players not playing to the best of their abilities because of dissatisfaction is a good one.

[Sauru]

i dont really need it to be all that deep, all i want is the player progression to be based on actual events and not just be totally random

[PinoyIDOL]

dont really need it to be all that deep, all i want is the player progression to be based on actual events and not just be totally random

[T-Comm55]

I agree. Players rating improvement must depend on their stats from last season.

[Sauru]

yeah i think stats should be a big factor but other things need to be taken into account. for instance,

playing time - i think even if a player only scores 4 points per game if they are on the court and playing they will improve on a yearly basic.

Playoffs - i think making the playoffs adds a entirely new level to the game of basketball and i believe any young player takes alot away from the experience.

in addition to these 3 gameplay related things i feel other things should be taken into account

age - clearly a player gets better with age, or worse with age. age needs to be taken into account but only in a minor way. it should be no way near as important as stats,playing time,or playoff experience.

potential - again like above, potential should be a factor not by itself but be a factor that contributes to the 3 gameplay ones. who cares if you score 20 a game if you are already playing at max level.

Veterans - this one probably in unrealistic but i truely feel if you have a long time,nearly retired, all star on your team that plays the same position as your rookie it will help bring him along better. maybe to hard to implement, maybe just not worth it to many, but i think it would be cool.

coaches - this is something that live seriously lacks when compared to madden. i loved how in madden you had coaches with stats. hire the right coach and they help develop young players, get mr larry brown and the young players just rot away. i know this wont be in this years live, but i would love to see coaches getting thier own stats and have it impact the players on the team like it does in real life.

[T-Comm55]

playing time, playoff, stats, potential and age - I agree.

But coach thing will take some time for them to develop.

[galvatron3000]

In dynasty mode, players with explosive first steps and the ones that are incredibly athletic(only created characters & draft generated ones) should be able to have injuries that steals from that part of their game, forcing them to improve in other areas of their game or retire(waived) if you deem them ineffective. I would like to see player's improvements in certain parts of their games be a bit of a challenge to improve, especially for guys working on multiple areas in the off season. So the reward will be worth it(earned) come the start of the season. Jumpers, mid-range, three, post-up, footowrk, defense, passing, speed, quickness etc.

[Andrew]

Basing improvement/decline off stats is easier said than done though. How would the game penalise or take into account difficulty level, sliders or the user's skill level? Or for that matter, their quarter length settings? Don't get me wrong, it would be awesome for season performance to impact player development, but I don't know how they'd properly achieve it.

[Sauru]

i dont think the game should take into account dif level,sliders, or the users skill level. if you are not good enough to play a certain dif level then drop down a notch. i think it should be based on the 20/10 you are getting not 20/10 on a certain dif level. as for user skill level, everyone is at different level. i feel if someone is really really good at this game then by all means let them get the reward of better player improvements. as for the sliders, well those are there only to help you make the game more realistic(or cheat) so imo those should not be taken into account in any way shape or form.

btw galvatron i like your ideas too. i think injuries should also effect players skill ratings and sometimes have injuries that even though the player has returned from them they wont ever be the same(grant hill).

[galvatron3000]

Yeah, I think it makes you work harder as a GM and also on making that player better at something else, which is why I would like it to be kinda hard to improve your players but for those willing to put in the time, the reward should really pay off. Just image a player who couldn't shoot well but had a tremendous first step, loses his first step due to injuries but works really hard at his shot and becomes a better off the ball player(which needs to be implemented in the game for Reggie & RIP) now he's still deadly but in a different way. Maybe he's not able to be as mobile anymore but his shot is just money if you give him room. His game has changed but he's still a good player. You have to balance it out though, some guys have more upside than others so they should improve at a great(or higher rating) rate. Some guys are injury prone, so they may not be able to improve much of their game at all. Also, if you lost some mobility and you are a great, good or decent defender then your lateral movement should be affect, and your defense not as good though you could become better at steals or just gamble more often(leads to more fouls).

[Andrew]

i dont think the game should take into account dif level,sliders, or the users skill level. if you are not good enough to play a certain dif level then drop down a notch. i think it should be based on the 20/10 you are getting not 20/10 on a certain dif level. as for user skill level, everyone is at different level. i feel if someone is really really good at this game then by all means let them get the reward of better player improvements. as for the sliders, well those are there only to help you make the game more realistic(or cheat) so imo those should not be taken into account in any way shape or form.

But that basically means (for example) if you're not all that good at three point shooting, your players are going to take a huge hit in their three point ratings, which isn't necessarily interesting.

[Mick]

Just on a simpler note, I'd like to see efficiency rankings put in. Even just for the game you are playing. That way you could get a really quick grasp of who is performing well for the other team and change your defence accordingly. Just because the other team's guard has scored 25 by half time doesn't mean he's playing well if he has taken 25 shots to do it. The rankings would be great and could probably be used to determine the MVP (if that isn't the case already)

[Sauru]

i dont think the game should take into account dif level,sliders, or the users skill level. if you are not good enough to play a certain dif level then drop down a notch. i think it should be based on the 20/10 you are getting not 20/10 on a certain dif level. as for user skill level, everyone is at different level. i feel if someone is really really good at this game then by all means let them get the reward of better player improvements. as for the sliders, well those are there only to help you make the game more realistic(or cheat) so imo those should not be taken into account in any way shape or form.

But that basically means (for example) if you're not all that good at three point shooting, your players are going to take a huge hit in their three point ratings, which isn't necessarily interesting.

i dont feel that players should really take big hits in thier rateings at all until age kicks in. i can see maybe a point or 3 down but nothing past that. the reason i say this is cause you almost never see anyone in the league who has a drastic drop in thier game unless age or injury comes into play. so i dont think if you shoot the ball with shaq once from 3pt land and make it that his rateing should sky rocket cause he shot 100% for the year and on the same hand i dont think if you play brent barry only 2 minutes a game and go 2 for 34 from downtown that his rateing should drop a huge amount, maybe 1-3 like i said before but i personally believe on such few shot attempts 3 would be a bit extreme.

as i type this i see your point on dif levels being counted as its obvious making 3's and getting to the rim is easier on lower levels. its a good and valid point. my only real counter arguement is, thats the price you pay for going up in dif level. you want to play superstar? then we shall give you the superstar experience and treatment

[Impose]

Hmmm, interesting idea...........

How about this.....

NBA.com has a system to show how productive a player is with his playing time, if EA could use this type of system it could work both ways.....

You could draft to fill a need, MAKE the player a star stat-wise and ensure he gets atleast a little bit better each year as a result, ALSO....

While thats happening theres gonna be players on the team with good rating that arent getting the stats/shots they want, so they can start demanding trades or even start losing "morale" or whatever and performing poorly....

That'd be AWESOME, youd have to PLAY the game to keep your players happy and improve your potential stars.... Kinda like coaching ;p

[Andrew]

Certainly if the drop wasn't too dramatic or completely dependent on the user's skill level, statistical improvement and performance having an effect on player development would be good.

One other problem would be the CPU teams though. Since player performance is based on ratings and the simulation engine, they might not improve at the same rate...which wouldn't be realistic or fair. That's my main concern about having player development rely on stats, I like the idea but all things considered might not be feasible...certainly not easy to implement.

[AVBW1]

hope Support other 3D Card , my pc now using SIS VGA ..... , make the court black

[Silky Smooth Vlade]

Veterans - this one probably in unrealistic but i truely feel if you have a long time,nearly retired, all star on your team that plays the same position as your rookie it will help bring him along better. maybe to hard to implement, maybe just not worth it to many, but i think it would be cool.

coaches - this is something that live seriously lacks when compared to madden. i loved how in madden you had coaches with stats. hire the right coach and they help develop young players, get mr larry brown and the young players just rot away. i know this wont be in this years live, but i would love to see coaches getting thier own stats and have it impact the players on the team like it does in real life.

I agree with your entire post, but especially those two points. You always point out great features that make sense, and would seem to please all Dynasty junkies. I wish one year Live would not change their graphics/ gameplay at all, and just 100% focus on improving Dynasty mode. I realize this will never happen, and never COULD happen, just because of sales... but yeah, the deeper the franchise mode gets, the more I can forgive bad gameplay.