Let's Talk Ratings
Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:12 am
-I like EA's ratings system, it's clear, allows players to understand exactly how good the in-game players are while making calculations easy for a computer. Other games seem to be following suit also, whereas last year's editions of certain games had 5 ratings categories and little bars that were filled to a certain amount to reflect a player's ability. It made comparisons a pain and very important things (passing) were ignored. Now things are being standardized using EA's system, which is the best.
-That being said, I do think they need to make a few changes to it though. Some ratings don't seem to do much to me and they need some other numbers to reflect certain in-game things.
-I think they need to add a layup rating. This is in NBA 2k3 and I think it's VERY handy. Some players can drive the lane and finish very acrobatically without dunking on people (Bobby Jackson, Allen Iverson etc). These players also don't have a post-up game so giving them high Inside Scoring gives them abilities that they probably shouldn't have. An extremely high layup rating would allow players to do those hand-switching, double pump layup animations, whereas a low one would just have players going straight up (and thus having their shot easily thrown.) Players like Michael Jordan and Dr. J would also benefit from having high layup and dunk ratings to reflect that they can finish either way...and guys like Garnett can post-up and dunk on people without having to also give them the ability to hit air-reverse and up-and-under layups...
-I think they need to bring back the Clutch rating. It added a great layer of realism to the game and rewarded knowledgeable NBA fans who knew who should and shouldn't be taking final shots. Clutch effects your shot percentage at the end of the shot clock, end of quarters or end of close games. I think it should also matter more in the playoffs. I don't know how they did it but I imagine from 50-75 makes your shot less likely to go in, 75-85 leaves it pretty much the same and 86 and up makes your shot more likely to go in. Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber are the type of dominating big men who get you to the playoffs then disappear in the clutch and the game should reflect that. Other guys like Robert Horry may be above-average shooters normally but almost never miss when the game is on the line. He could have an 85 3-point rating and a 98 clutch. Obviously people like Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic should all be really high in this category and it would affect how people run defense in close games.
-Some ratings have a role, but I'm not really sure how they affect gameplay. To be honest, I know what Offensive Awareness is supposed to do but I couldn't tell a 99 from a 50 by just watching the game. I'll notice those players with high O. Awareness spotting up behind me when I dribble in front of their defender but they'll still do this even if they can't shoot threes. EA would have to program a number of "right" and "wrong" things to do to get this to work. I'm not saying they should take it out but they should make it matter more.
-The Free Throw rating just helps determine stats in simmed games. When you're playing on Superstar (and I think All-Star also) it goes the same speed (ridiculously fast) no matter who you are. What they should probably do is have you time and release your free throw shot then have the player's percentage determine whether or not it goes in. That's how they do everything else. That way...no matter how good you are at Free Throw shooting (and I shoot around 95% no matter who I play with)...even when you release the ball perfectly with Shaq it has a 54% chance of going in. It also would be cool if the computer would sometimes miss a free throw with a bad player. Well it would be cool if the computer would sometimes miss a shot at all but that's beside the point. Have EVERYONE'S free throws determined by ratings, not by a little slide bar that guarantees that you and the computer never miss. That's realism and that's what we want.
-I think EA is being really lazy by not adjusting the Legend's ratings to fit their new ratings system each year. All of a sudden some guards are given rebounding in the 80's this year but the Decade All-Star players are still in the high 60's and low 70's.
-I like that they adjusted the shooting ratings so that players who can't shoot (see: Shawn Marion, Kenyon Martin, Larry Hughes) actually have LOW shooting ratings! That probably seems like a weird thing to be excited about but last year Allen Iverson had 92 jump shooting when he's extremely streaky in that category and not nearly as good as a Ray Allen. This year he has 85 and that is much better.
-I can't wait til the year when they actually give players who don't play defense (like Dirk Nowitzki, Vince Carter) low defensive ratings. I have to go each year and drop guys from 89 or so down to 75 so they are the appropriate liability.
-I made the Trailblazers worse by docking their whole roster 5 points on Offensive Awareness. This reflects their complete lack of chemistry. I made the Pacers one of the top teams by upping their offensive awareness to reflect Isiah Thomas' new offensive system that seems to be working so well. I upped the Mavs defensive awareness as a team by 5 to make them one of the top teams because they seem to want to play defense now. Taking into account what I said above, this means Nowitzki went up from a 75 to an 80.
-I love the Primacy Rating...I can make sure that Cuttino Mobley and Steve Francis fire away for brick after brick without even thinking about the 7'5" monster shooting 70% standing under the basket! 98 and 97 primacy rating for them! 75 for Yao! Then I can insure that Allan Houston has great shooting and offensive ratings but that he never actually shoots the ball! 75 primacy rating! The God himself...Allen Iverson...gets 99! How kickass. Too bad it makes some of these guys' Overall rating higher when it should be lower as a result. It's kind of weird I guess and I'm not sure how to fix that.
-If a player is a point guard who doesn't really do what a point guard should be doing (see: Memphis' Jason Williams, Steve Francis, Marbury) I make sure his Offensive Awareness is low (80 for Jason Williams, I think 85 for Francis and Marbury)
-Guys like A.J. Guyton can probaby shoot...but they shouldn't have 3 point ratings THAT high. And sometimes they use a player's 3-point percentage to determine the rating...then othertimes they ignore it (like, I think, with Eddie Griffin and Glen Rice).
-Ben Wallace supposedly has a 42" vertical so I'd give him 92 jumping. Kobe should probably have around 87-89 jumping. Shaq has a 29" vertical so he should have around 75 jumping like he had last year...but for some reason they gave him a really high rating...I think it was 90. Odd.
-I'm still not comfortable with the Quickness rating. If they would make strength matter then Allen Iverson wouldn't be knocking Shaq down when he drives in the lane and goes into his layup animation. That would certainly make the game more realistic and fun.
-I like the new more accurate way that they generate rookies.
-Scratch that...I like it a LOT...it's really cool. It makes franchise more enjoyable also because you can get guys you can actually play with for a few minutes in the second round. No more point guards with 64 speed (unless he's like the 58th pick)...kudos.
-That being said...they should change the way the players develop.
-Athleticism ratings (quickness, speed, jumping, dunking) ratings should start out at the appropriate level, vary only slightly if at all for their prime years, and then decline as the player ages.
-Physical fitness ratings (strength, endurance, hardiness, and the player's weight) should start out lower then increase slightly as time goes on. Each year they could also vary a bit to reflect the player's level of fitness going into the season but that's probably asking to much. The average rookie shouldn't be able to play as many minutes as the vets without getting hurt or losing a lot of effectiveness, then put on more muscle through his career. Endurance and hardiness should also drop off sharply when a player gets old.
-Awareness should start out low (very low for teenage rookies, like in the 60's) and only go up throughout a player's career. People's mental abilities only increase through something like the first 50 years of their life. Veterans should have declining athletic and fitness ratings but really high awareness. It's like the saying goes..."You KNOW exactly what to do, but your body won't do it."
-That's also why I go through my default rosters and put the legends awareness ratings at or above those of their decade All-Star counterparts. I have Michael Jordan and John Stockton with 99 Offensive Awareness. Does that seem as right to you as it does to me?
-Yes, as a matter of fact it is my finals week. Why study when I can do this?
-The title of this post is probably a misnomer because I don't expect a lot of people to read or respond to this. I'm glad to get these thoughts off my chest though and maybe someone will pipe up.
-That being said, I do think they need to make a few changes to it though. Some ratings don't seem to do much to me and they need some other numbers to reflect certain in-game things.
-I think they need to add a layup rating. This is in NBA 2k3 and I think it's VERY handy. Some players can drive the lane and finish very acrobatically without dunking on people (Bobby Jackson, Allen Iverson etc). These players also don't have a post-up game so giving them high Inside Scoring gives them abilities that they probably shouldn't have. An extremely high layup rating would allow players to do those hand-switching, double pump layup animations, whereas a low one would just have players going straight up (and thus having their shot easily thrown.) Players like Michael Jordan and Dr. J would also benefit from having high layup and dunk ratings to reflect that they can finish either way...and guys like Garnett can post-up and dunk on people without having to also give them the ability to hit air-reverse and up-and-under layups...
-I think they need to bring back the Clutch rating. It added a great layer of realism to the game and rewarded knowledgeable NBA fans who knew who should and shouldn't be taking final shots. Clutch effects your shot percentage at the end of the shot clock, end of quarters or end of close games. I think it should also matter more in the playoffs. I don't know how they did it but I imagine from 50-75 makes your shot less likely to go in, 75-85 leaves it pretty much the same and 86 and up makes your shot more likely to go in. Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber are the type of dominating big men who get you to the playoffs then disappear in the clutch and the game should reflect that. Other guys like Robert Horry may be above-average shooters normally but almost never miss when the game is on the line. He could have an 85 3-point rating and a 98 clutch. Obviously people like Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic should all be really high in this category and it would affect how people run defense in close games.
-Some ratings have a role, but I'm not really sure how they affect gameplay. To be honest, I know what Offensive Awareness is supposed to do but I couldn't tell a 99 from a 50 by just watching the game. I'll notice those players with high O. Awareness spotting up behind me when I dribble in front of their defender but they'll still do this even if they can't shoot threes. EA would have to program a number of "right" and "wrong" things to do to get this to work. I'm not saying they should take it out but they should make it matter more.
-The Free Throw rating just helps determine stats in simmed games. When you're playing on Superstar (and I think All-Star also) it goes the same speed (ridiculously fast) no matter who you are. What they should probably do is have you time and release your free throw shot then have the player's percentage determine whether or not it goes in. That's how they do everything else. That way...no matter how good you are at Free Throw shooting (and I shoot around 95% no matter who I play with)...even when you release the ball perfectly with Shaq it has a 54% chance of going in. It also would be cool if the computer would sometimes miss a free throw with a bad player. Well it would be cool if the computer would sometimes miss a shot at all but that's beside the point. Have EVERYONE'S free throws determined by ratings, not by a little slide bar that guarantees that you and the computer never miss. That's realism and that's what we want.
-I think EA is being really lazy by not adjusting the Legend's ratings to fit their new ratings system each year. All of a sudden some guards are given rebounding in the 80's this year but the Decade All-Star players are still in the high 60's and low 70's.
-I like that they adjusted the shooting ratings so that players who can't shoot (see: Shawn Marion, Kenyon Martin, Larry Hughes) actually have LOW shooting ratings! That probably seems like a weird thing to be excited about but last year Allen Iverson had 92 jump shooting when he's extremely streaky in that category and not nearly as good as a Ray Allen. This year he has 85 and that is much better.
-I can't wait til the year when they actually give players who don't play defense (like Dirk Nowitzki, Vince Carter) low defensive ratings. I have to go each year and drop guys from 89 or so down to 75 so they are the appropriate liability.
-I made the Trailblazers worse by docking their whole roster 5 points on Offensive Awareness. This reflects their complete lack of chemistry. I made the Pacers one of the top teams by upping their offensive awareness to reflect Isiah Thomas' new offensive system that seems to be working so well. I upped the Mavs defensive awareness as a team by 5 to make them one of the top teams because they seem to want to play defense now. Taking into account what I said above, this means Nowitzki went up from a 75 to an 80.
-I love the Primacy Rating...I can make sure that Cuttino Mobley and Steve Francis fire away for brick after brick without even thinking about the 7'5" monster shooting 70% standing under the basket! 98 and 97 primacy rating for them! 75 for Yao! Then I can insure that Allan Houston has great shooting and offensive ratings but that he never actually shoots the ball! 75 primacy rating! The God himself...Allen Iverson...gets 99! How kickass. Too bad it makes some of these guys' Overall rating higher when it should be lower as a result. It's kind of weird I guess and I'm not sure how to fix that.
-If a player is a point guard who doesn't really do what a point guard should be doing (see: Memphis' Jason Williams, Steve Francis, Marbury) I make sure his Offensive Awareness is low (80 for Jason Williams, I think 85 for Francis and Marbury)
-Guys like A.J. Guyton can probaby shoot...but they shouldn't have 3 point ratings THAT high. And sometimes they use a player's 3-point percentage to determine the rating...then othertimes they ignore it (like, I think, with Eddie Griffin and Glen Rice).
-Ben Wallace supposedly has a 42" vertical so I'd give him 92 jumping. Kobe should probably have around 87-89 jumping. Shaq has a 29" vertical so he should have around 75 jumping like he had last year...but for some reason they gave him a really high rating...I think it was 90. Odd.
-I'm still not comfortable with the Quickness rating. If they would make strength matter then Allen Iverson wouldn't be knocking Shaq down when he drives in the lane and goes into his layup animation. That would certainly make the game more realistic and fun.
-I like the new more accurate way that they generate rookies.
-Scratch that...I like it a LOT...it's really cool. It makes franchise more enjoyable also because you can get guys you can actually play with for a few minutes in the second round. No more point guards with 64 speed (unless he's like the 58th pick)...kudos.
-That being said...they should change the way the players develop.
-Athleticism ratings (quickness, speed, jumping, dunking) ratings should start out at the appropriate level, vary only slightly if at all for their prime years, and then decline as the player ages.
-Physical fitness ratings (strength, endurance, hardiness, and the player's weight) should start out lower then increase slightly as time goes on. Each year they could also vary a bit to reflect the player's level of fitness going into the season but that's probably asking to much. The average rookie shouldn't be able to play as many minutes as the vets without getting hurt or losing a lot of effectiveness, then put on more muscle through his career. Endurance and hardiness should also drop off sharply when a player gets old.
-Awareness should start out low (very low for teenage rookies, like in the 60's) and only go up throughout a player's career. People's mental abilities only increase through something like the first 50 years of their life. Veterans should have declining athletic and fitness ratings but really high awareness. It's like the saying goes..."You KNOW exactly what to do, but your body won't do it."
-That's also why I go through my default rosters and put the legends awareness ratings at or above those of their decade All-Star counterparts. I have Michael Jordan and John Stockton with 99 Offensive Awareness. Does that seem as right to you as it does to me?
-Yes, as a matter of fact it is my finals week. Why study when I can do this?
-The title of this post is probably a misnomer because I don't expect a lot of people to read or respond to this. I'm glad to get these thoughts off my chest though and maybe someone will pipe up.
great!
Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:54 am
egarrett, i think i like everyone of your ideas
i think the game already adjusts ratings(i hope) for age and aging
your idea i like the best is ft's, i hate shooting .92 for the team all season
i would love to miss one on % once in awhile, not cuz i messed up and miss timed it
superstar ft's are too hard
great ideas
m.i. out
i think the game already adjusts ratings(i hope) for age and aging
your idea i like the best is ft's, i hate shooting .92 for the team all season
i would love to miss one on % once in awhile, not cuz i messed up and miss timed it
superstar ft's are too hard
great ideas
m.i. out
Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:52 am
-i think the CLUTCH rating is still there... i think i remember changing it for someone when i first got the game.
-only thing i saw to show player have low o. awareness is that they dont try for or catch alley oops and full court passes.
-i've always believed they should have gotten rid of the T-bar for freethrows... make it automatic like the jumpshot!....
-make an aggression rating, like nhl97 i think, that makes them more or less like to get a random technical foul.
-YOU dont think vince carter has defense??? i dont knoooow....
-what do you mean by
do you mean the fact that they shoot too much....? i dont think we should lower awareness... i mean, marbury knows ppl are open.. he just dont care... thats more of a primacy issue
i think its a good post... ive been thinking some of these things for yrs....
-only thing i saw to show player have low o. awareness is that they dont try for or catch alley oops and full court passes.
-i've always believed they should have gotten rid of the T-bar for freethrows... make it automatic like the jumpshot!....
-make an aggression rating, like nhl97 i think, that makes them more or less like to get a random technical foul.
-YOU dont think vince carter has defense??? i dont knoooow....
-what do you mean by
If a player is a point guard who doesn't really do what a point guard should be doing (see: Memphis' Jason Williams, Steve Francis, Marbury)
do you mean the fact that they shoot too much....? i dont think we should lower awareness... i mean, marbury knows ppl are open.. he just dont care... thats more of a primacy issue
i think its a good post... ive been thinking some of these things for yrs....
Tue Dec 10, 2002 7:25 am
Excellent post i feel the same way about most of the things on there. Although the Vince Carter comment is a lil suspect....i mean he's no Tracy Mcgrady but i wouldnt call him a defensive liability! Also you feel Allen Houston dosent shoot enough???
All things aside i definatly agree with the layup rating also not to steal too much from 2k3 but i think a seperate inside and outside defensive rating is needed i mean Doug Christie can shut down Allen Houston but he cant do anything against Antwon Walker in the post. The blocking rating should mean somthing make players with high block ratings still able to make blocks even if our timing of the button press were off where as low rated players timing would need to be perfect. Also some two handed block/grabs would be nice for high rated blockers...
All things aside i definatly agree with the layup rating also not to steal too much from 2k3 but i think a seperate inside and outside defensive rating is needed i mean Doug Christie can shut down Allen Houston but he cant do anything against Antwon Walker in the post. The blocking rating should mean somthing make players with high block ratings still able to make blocks even if our timing of the button press were off where as low rated players timing would need to be perfect. Also some two handed block/grabs would be nice for high rated blockers...
Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:03 am
I haven't seen the clutch rating in the game yet.
I've just observed that Vince and Dirk both seem to take their breaks on defense.
I don't know about the aggression rating, it could work though if it controlled how hard players played aside from the awareness.
The inside/outside defensive awareness thing is a great idea, I agree 100%. Analysts always make a big deal about a player being able to guard both big men and little men, or an offensive player being able to take big men outside and little men inside...and that's not reflected well in Live. Since they added players switching off on defense this year it matters even more. I'd definitely add that to the list of what we need.
Oh, I also think Inside Scoring should add to your scoring average. Players with great post-up ability but bad jump shooting don't score any points when simming and that's silly.
I've just observed that Vince and Dirk both seem to take their breaks on defense.
I don't know about the aggression rating, it could work though if it controlled how hard players played aside from the awareness.
The inside/outside defensive awareness thing is a great idea, I agree 100%. Analysts always make a big deal about a player being able to guard both big men and little men, or an offensive player being able to take big men outside and little men inside...and that's not reflected well in Live. Since they added players switching off on defense this year it matters even more. I'd definitely add that to the list of what we need.
Oh, I also think Inside Scoring should add to your scoring average. Players with great post-up ability but bad jump shooting don't score any points when simming and that's silly.
Re: Let's Talk Ratings
Tue Dec 10, 2002 8:57 am
EGarrett wrote:I don't know how they did [clutch]
It used to correspond to a 1-5 (19, 39, 59, 79 and 99).
EGarrett wrote:Oh, I also think Inside Scoring should add to your scoring average. Players with great post-up ability but bad jump shooting don't score any points when simming and that's silly.
It used to work that way.
Wed Dec 11, 2002 6:45 am
omg youre right... there is no clutch rating.... 
oh yea... 
i'm mad. 
oh yea... i'm mad.