.:My Tweaked Roster Patch - BY DK 1/24/03 UPDATE OUT:.

The roster is released BUT the site was not changed so just downoad the latest file (1/24/03) on the rosters page and notice the differences.

I have fixed the dribble drop probem about 75% , Good guards like AI, Kobe, and Kidd should now never drop the ball. Slower guards should drop the ball VERY rarely, and the slowest of guards should drop it about 2/3 times a game. (Of course this is all relative and about how much you freestyle or drive out of triple threat, in my last game I only dropped the ball once, but I think it will be higher for those who all do 300 dribble moves with the analog stick a game)

Tell me what you think about this version.

Dk, is that the 1/24/03 file ur talkin about? or ur new beta version? coz i wanna try it

YES the 1/24/03 version on the downloads page, I'm too lazy to update the page but believe me the zip has been updated with the new DBFs.

To whoever made this sticky, thanks, it helps to keep the thread in a easy to find place, although it was hard to miss before

No problem, it's the least I can do.

Maybe you two should work together on roster patches.

Hey DK ... i am still playing with your roster from 28th of December. Just for fun i have simmed a few seasons (until my computer froze again ) and in the second season the overall ratings dropped for all players, except my created player and the rookies. For example Baron Davis from New Orleans, normally he has a rating of 91. In the second season he dropped to 77 .... WTF?

Any idea why this happens and how i can avoid that?

Thanks
TheBigEasy

Hey DK ... i am still playing with your roster from 28th of December. Just for fun i have simmed a few seasons (until my computer froze again ) and in the second season the overall ratings dropped for all players, except my created player and the rookies. For example Baron Davis from New Orleans, normally he has a rating of 91. In the second season he dropped to 77 .... WTF?

Any idea why this happens and how i can avoid that?

Thanks
TheBigEasy

i've posted the answer 10 times and i'll do it again...

DK uses some database editor to change(lower) different ratings(FG, speed, etc)
but this doesn't change the overall rating,
but when u edit the players ingame (number, pos, gear, etc)
[and when a new season starts and the ratings change]
then it changes the overall rating (using the other ratings)

what to do?
do it my way - just ignore it

sorry ... I haven't searched if there is already an appropriate answer. Thanks.

So ... only the overall rating changes? Does this have any effect? Sorry if i am asking a question again you already have answered :d

Hm ... i have a bell ringing anywhere in my head, where DK said, don't use this roster for Franchise ...

TheBigEasy

:oops: sorry ... I haven't searched if there is already an appropriate answer. Thanks.

So ... only the overall rating changes? Does this have any effect? Sorry if i am asking a question again you already have answered :d

Hm ... i have a bell ringing anywhere in my head, where DK said, don't use this roster for Franchise ...

TheBigEasy

you're welcome...

here's a exsample of the effect:

the generated rookies will have other ratings - like the original players had
so they are stronger, quicker, better shooters etc.
and the top rookies will have better ratings than t-mac, kobe, vince or anyone else so in cpu teams they will take their places...

so ... let me summarize it, if i understand.

1. DK changed the ratings, like FG and so on, but the Overall ratings didn't change, although the single ratings changed. Correct?

2. In the second season the overall ratings change too, but the skills of the guys are still the same like in season 1. Correct?

3. All i have to do is a way to edit the ratings of the rookies and my created player, than everything should be ok. Correct?

TheBigEasy

triple-correct!

Cool .. than i think i will try this megamodifierprogramthingy ZipBreak offers, next season. But i am still in the beginning of my franchise, so it will take some time until i am in the second season .

Btw .. who wants to know more about my New Orleans Franchise --> see my sig

TheBigEasy

I've been on hiatus for some time now only to return to this. I gotta give it to ya DK, you've done it again!! This is BAR NONE your best effort thus far. Fellas, check out this latest download asap if you haven't already. I'll list my observations later. Check you PM.

I just made a new thread but I think it would be helpfull here too so I'm just pasting it here.

-----------------------------------------
I have discovered a thing that makes the game vs the CPU alot more realistic. Setting the CPU offense.

Let me explain, The CPU plays the same no matter who it is , this changes it and it makes it a lot better. Remember how they used to take 30 3pt attempts a game and every other shot was inside the paint? Well not anymore! This makes teams play to their characteristics, all you have to do is set their offense at the begining of the game by pausing Strategy>Team Strategy>Offense>(change to specific fit instead of dynamic)

Here are some sample stats and shot charts (I was Boston)

Game Stats
CPU Player Stats
Bulls Shot Chart


Game Stats
CPU Player Stats
Kings Shot Chart


Notice the shot distribution and variety.

Now to the offenses I ran

Sacramento - Quick Hitters (Not Quick Hitters 1 or 2 or whaterver but just Quick Hitters, this rotates between all the Quick Hitter plays)

Chicago - 1st Half Turout, 2nd Half Sideline Triangle.

So what does everyone think? I think this is pretty neat.

Below are all the offenses and my best descriptions of them.
It would be GREAT if we could come up with an offense that maches each NBA team, so if someone wants to do some testing it would be great. I really think this can improve the game tremendously, so please post your results,findings and opinions.

1-4 High
Ball Starts ou top and all players are above the key, this seems to fit an outisde shooting low ball movement team.
Possibly Fits With Boston Celttics

Ballscreen
A motion offense with lots of screens it seems.
Possibly Fits With Utah Jazz

Box
Players stay and start near basket and usually give it to the big man.
Possibly Fits With San Antonio Spurs

Double High
This has lots of movement and spreating of the D but what sets it a part is the passing outside C.
Possibly Fits With Houston Rockets

Flex
Everyone Stays low except the PG, then someone comes out for a pass and then trows it towards the bucket.
Possibly Fits With Denver Nuggets

Hawks
Losts of movement and precission passing and swinging of the ball.
Possibly Fits With Dallas Mavericks

High Post
Players stick to the outside but the bal goes inside and outside.
Possibly Fits With Atlanta Hawks, Memphis Grizzlies

Inside Triangle
This is the offense the Lakers run now and the old Bulls used to run.
Possibly Fits With LA Lakers

Motion
Well it's kinda self explanatory with everyone tuching the ball.
Possibly Fits With New Jersey Nets

Quck Hitters
Ball is moved and shots are taken by everyone at the first open chance.
Possibly Fits With Sacramento Kings

Sideline Triangle
Like the triangle but on the sideline, this is what the current Bulls seem to run.
Possibly Fits With Chicago Bulls

Turnout
Kind of a base offense with rotating and movement
Possibly Fits With Miami Heat, Golden State Warriors

Zipper
Like the box but with more movement but same result
Possibly Fits With Cleveland Cavaliers

So much typing, but its for a good cause

DK I have been playing like this for awhile......the problem is you must play on superstar otherwise the CPU makes to many stupid passes and you end up with 20+ steals a game.

I also switch up the offense for teams otherwise it gets way to predicatable because they run the same sets over and over.....so when I play a team like the Celtics I start off on 1-4 high then goto Hawks then maybe to Dynamic for a little bit then back to 1-4 before the half.....then whatever worked the best against me I use more in the second half....kinda like a real coach would do.

I wish EA would have left the plays like previous years instead of this dynamic crap.....

jr

If you call a specific set, ie Flex, then the CPU will rotate beteween the 10 plays there which is a lot better and less predictable than the Post Up, Isolation, Pick and Roll 3pt, every trip down. The cpu literally ran like 5 plays all game, at least now it has 10 to run and from what I see player movement and positioning resembles the NBA way more than before when they just stood around and waited for the PG to pass it and take the shot, most trips down the floor by the CPU featured less than 2 passes. Now the game is alive.

And I haven't seen the steal problem yet, 9 for me in both games, I usually get more . Maybe some of the sets produse more steals or maybe you are just good but I'm liking this for now way more anyway.

What sets do you run for each team?
I'm probably going to compile a list.

Wow, after playing with the original rosters for so long, this feels like slow motion

DK I have been playing like this for awhile......the problem is you must play on superstar otherwise the CPU makes to many stupid passes and you end up with 20+ steals a game.

I also switch up the offense for teams otherwise it gets way to predicatable because they run the same sets over and over.....so when I play a team like the Celtics I start off on 1-4 high then goto Hawks then maybe to Dynamic for a little bit then back to 1-4 before the half.....then whatever worked the best against me I use more in the second half....kinda like a real coach would do.

I wish EA would have left the plays like previous years instead of this dynamic crap.....

jr

Actually I have some questions, I just played vs the Lakers and it seemed that everyone but Kobe and Shaq were the go to guys (Shaq+Kobe=14 Shots, Fisher 13 shots, Fox 14 shots, LA PFs 15 shots) They were running the right types of plays (Triangle) but for the wrong guys. Obviously primacy has a lot to do with it too but when SAC ran their offense Webber had the ball in his hands on every trip and shot and passed depending on the situation. In the game VS LA Shaq got the ball a lot but he was never agressive with it and instead of shooting he passed and the PF would end up taking a lot of the shots Shaq should have taken.

Maybe we need a list of the main player options in each set.

I'll start


1-4 High ?
Ballscreen ?
Box ?
Double High ?
Flex ?
Hawks ?
High Post ?
Inside Triangle SF PG C
Motion ?
Quck Hitters PF SG SF
Sideline Triangle SF PG PF
Turnout C SF SG
Zipper ?

DK I noticed the wierd shot selection too. Primacy doesn't seem to effect the game in the NBA sets as much as it does in the dynamic sets.

There are definite plays that are designed for certain players. I know 1-4 high has the PG post up alot no matter who it is(ie Tony Delk and Shammond WIlliams for the Celtics).

The problem I have with the real sets is stupid passing....the CPU just wings the ball around instead of establishing someone in the post or running a set to open someone up for a catch and shoot or isloation. This is clearly the gameplay engines flaw and there is nothing we can really do to help it this year.

Another thing with the real sets I found that even if you double team the CPU, it refuses to pass out of it whereas the dynamic sets run the post-pass game alot better.

I agree it does mix up the game and make it better but I have to switch it up for the CPU otherwise I get to many steals.

I would love to help figuring out which team should run what but I am going to sim the first 2 years of my franchise and then play. THis means the rosters will be alot different and the teams won't have the same goto guys. But I will keep an eye out on certain sets.

Good luck and I appreciate your dedication to make this game more realistic.

jr

DK, check your pm. I'll see if I can test some of these sets when I have some time. Later..

It's February and this game stil hasn't reached what it should be. No fault of DK though, cause I think he's done whatever that can be done by a roster maker, but it has it's limitations. Rebounds are never going to be even. The steals are always in the teens for both teams. FG % are a little high still, and at some times decide to sky rocket. Fouls are whacky. I had a game where I had 25 fouls on me to the other team's 9. Block #'s are better, but the ridiculous length of blocks screws me 2-3 times a game...With settings plays for each team, they run the same one all the time usually out of the group...and one game a team only shot 1 three pointer...now we know that's not realistic....almost time to give up...High Heat 2004 is on the horizon...

It's February and this game stil hasn't reached what it should be. No fault of DK though, cause I think he's done whatever that can be done by a roster maker, but it has it's limitations. Rebounds are never going to be even. The steals are always in the teens for both teams. FG % are a little high still, and at some times decide to sky rocket. Fouls are whacky. I had a game where I had 25 fouls on me to the other team's 9. Block #'s are better, but the ridiculous length of blocks screws me 2-3 times a game...With settings plays for each team, they run the same one all the time usually out of the group...and one game a team only shot 1 three pointer...now we know that's not realistic....almost time to give up...High Heat 2004 is on the horizon...

I think I remember you from the dugout boards? I just hope they fixed the foul balls and I really hope the tune file uses the old variables instead of the new Sim-Arcade Contact-Power crap. And I heard the graphics were beter but I really hope it does not take 3x the CPU power of HH2K2 to get the same results like Live 2K1 VS 2K3. It all depends if there are any big bugs (Sound on XP anyone? Rain Glitch) And how the new franchise will be.

All I know is that World Series BBall is comming out alongside MVP so there should be choices, but I heard HH is comming out really soon, like in a month or 2.

The game I really want is CM4 which comes out in March but is not sold in North America so I'll have to look at alternitive sources to find it.

In response to DK's suggestion this is what I did. I set two CPUs to battle it out and change there offensive sets. I let them play out for 1 qtr (12 mins) with no fatigue and no auto substitute to see what the starters might do. At the end of the qtr, i recorded which positions took the most shot at what offensive set. The ff are the offensive set with the 3 most dominant postions ( the number right next to the position is the # of shot they took.

OFFENSIVE SETS 1ST 2ND 3RD
1-4 High SG (6) SF (5) PG (5)
Ball Screen PF (6) SG (5) PG (5)
Box SG (11) SF (7) PF (4)
Double High SG (8) PG (7) PF (6)
Flex C (9) SF (4) PF (3)
Hawks SG (8) PF (4) PG (4)
High Post PG (8) SG (7) PF (5)
Inside Triangle SF* PG* C*
Motion C (7) SF (3) SG(3)/PG(3)
Quick Hitters SG (11) SF (6) PF (4)
Sideline Triangle C (11) PG (5) SF (4)
Turnout SG (9) PF (6) SF (5)
Zipper SG (8) SF (8) C (5)
* Not My Data (DK)

Now by considering the teams and there star player I assigned 2 set plays for each team.

TEAMS OFFENSIVE PLAYS
Atlanta Hawks Ball Screen, Hawks
Boston Celtics 1-4 High, Hawks
Chicago Bulls Motion, Zipper
Cleveland Cavaliers Motion, Zipper
Dallas Mavericks 1-4 High, Motion
Denver Nuggets Flex, Sideline Triangle
Detroit Pistons Motion, Quick Hitters
Golden State Warriors Zipper, Box
Houston Rockets High Post, Double High
Indiana Pacers Ball Screen, Motion
LA Clippers Turnout, Motion
LA Lakers ?
Memphis Grizzlies Turnout, Quick Hitters
Miami Heat Quick Hitters, Double High
Milwaukee Bucks 1-4 High, Double High
Minnesota Timberwolves Zipper, Box
New Jersey Nets Motion, High Post
New Orleans Hornets Motion, 1-4 High
New York Knicks Box, Quick Hitters
Orlando Magic Quick Hitters, 1-4 High
Philadelphia 76ers Quick Hitters, Ball Screen
Phoenix Suns High Post, 1-4 High
Portland Trailblazers Ball Screen, Turnout
Sacramento Kings Ball Screen, Turnout
San Antonio Spurs Ball Screen, Turnout
Seattle Supersonics High Post, 1-4 High
Toronto Raptors Quick Hitters, Box
Utah Jazz Ball Screen, High Post
Washington Wizards 1-4 High, Box

I played against San Antonio and Portland and both teams favored there star players: Duncan, Smith, Parker and Wallace, Wells and Stoudamire. They also shot roughly in the the 40% and tend to set plays rather than just run gun therefore slowing the pace of the game. (With 8 min qtr and default roster ... not DK's tweaked one).

Now if you consider my procedure there lots of room for error BUT this is only a test and this experiment should be done more than once. Let me know what you guys think and I'll post this again in a more appropriate thread created by DK somewhere.

Let me know what you guys think or discovered and thanks DK for discovering this method.

In response to DK's suggestion this is what I did. I set two CPUs to battle it out and change there offensive sets. I let them play out for 1 qtr (12 mins) with no fatigue and no auto substitute to see what the starters might do. At the end of the qtr, i recorded which positions took the most shot at what offensive set. The ff are the offensive set with the 3 most dominant postions ( the number right next to the position is the # of shot they took.

OFFENSIVE SETS 1ST 2ND 3RD
1-4 High SG (6) SF (5) PG (5)
Ball Screen PF (6) SG (5) PG (5)
Box SG (11) SF (7) PF (4)
Double High SG (8) PG (7) PF (6)
Flex C (9) SF (4) PF (3)
Hawks SG (8) PF (4) PG (4)
High Post PG (8) SG (7) PF (5)
Inside Triangle SF* PG* C*
Motion C (7) SF (3) SG(3)/PG(3)
Quick Hitters SG (11) SF (6) PF (4)
Sideline Triangle C (11) PG (5) SF (4)
Turnout SG (9) PF (6) SF (5)
Zipper SG (8) SF (8) C (5)
* Not My Data (DK)

Now by considering the teams and there star player I assigned 2 set plays for each team.

TEAMS OFFENSIVE PLAYS
Atlanta Hawks Ball Screen, Hawks
Boston Celtics 1-4 High, Hawks
Chicago Bulls Motion, Zipper
Cleveland Cavaliers Motion, Zipper
Dallas Mavericks 1-4 High, Motion
Denver Nuggets Flex, Sideline Triangle
Detroit Pistons Motion, Quick Hitters
Golden State Warriors Zipper, Box
Houston Rockets High Post, Double High
Indiana Pacers Ball Screen, Motion
LA Clippers Turnout, Motion
LA Lakers ?
Memphis Grizzlies Turnout, Quick Hitters
Miami Heat Quick Hitters, Double High
Milwaukee Bucks 1-4 High, Double High
Minnesota Timberwolves Zipper, Box
New Jersey Nets Motion, High Post
New Orleans Hornets Motion, 1-4 High
New York Knicks Box, Quick Hitters
Orlando Magic Quick Hitters, 1-4 High
Philadelphia 76ers Quick Hitters, Ball Screen
Phoenix Suns High Post, 1-4 High
Portland Trailblazers Ball Screen, Turnout
Sacramento Kings Ball Screen, Turnout
San Antonio Spurs Ball Screen, Turnout
Seattle Supersonics High Post, 1-4 High
Toronto Raptors Quick Hitters, Box
Utah Jazz Ball Screen, High Post
Washington Wizards 1-4 High, Box

I played against San Antonio and Portland and both teams favored there star players: Duncan, Smith, Parker and Wallace, Wells and Stoudamire. They also shot roughly in the the 40% and tend to set plays rather than just run gun therefore slowing the pace of the game. (With 8 min qtr and default roster ... not DK's tweaked one).

Now if you consider my procedure there lots of room for error BUT this is only a test and this experiment should be done more than once. Let me know what you guys think and I'll post this again in a more appropriate thread created by DK somewhere.

Let me know what you guys think or discovered and thanks DK for discovering this method.

*wow*
good work!

and in previous lives lakers used motion...

As DK don't seem to read the Threads which are especially set up for him i will post this here also.

- - -

Hi DK,

i have a question. I am still using your roster from 28th of December and was wondering if you still have the tweak ratings for that roster. I have created a player within this roster, 82 overall rating and i have this certain feeling, that he is a little bit too high rated. He has a FG% of 76%, leading the whole league in this category. More than once he has shot 100% in a game. So i want to decrease his ratings a bit, but by what multipliers?

I also need them for the next season, when i change the rookies so that the fit in the roster.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- - - -

And another question. You can set the offensive play for the opposite team before each game? Did i understand this right? Can you than maybe explain it to me too ... cause actually i haven't fully understand the above posts regarding this. I have tried to set a play for the opposite team, but it hasn't worked.

TheBigEasy

Heiks

Yes motion will seem to work fine for the Lakers for it favors the center position however as a Laker fan I just can't implement something to force them to do something out of character. As I play the Lakers anyway I wasn't concern on what set plays they should use.


Big Easy

- Upon the beginning of a game press ESC.
- Under Select Controller, assign one to the opponent (either the keyboard or your own controller).
- Go back to the Main Menu and click Strategy, then Team Strategy.
- There right next to the team name should be left/right arrow toggle.
- Click on of the arrow to switch teams to set.
- Right next to Offensive Sets change Dynamics to a set play you like them to use.
- Be careful on selecting a play (or formation). Make sure you select the one without a number right next to it (ie Flex vs Flex 1). Using a formation without a # will force the CPU to assign a new set play each possession. (Just to get a point across formation is Flex and a set play is the number right next to it).
-After you are satisfied exit out into the Main Menu.
-Go to Select Controller again and just unassign the controller from your opponent.
-Click Resume Game.