.:My Tweaked Roster Patch - BY DK 1/24/03 UPDATE OUT:.

nice work DK! played a game with your new beta rosters, superstar, 8minutes, fouls max, arcade, shot control cpu:

Entire Game Dallas Denver

Points 103 81
Bench Scoring 24 17
Field Goals 41/66 28/61
Field Goal % .621 .459
3 Point FG 9/15 1/9
3 Point % .600 .111
Free Throws 12/18 24/31
Free Throw % .667 .774
Rebounds 30 28
Off. Rebounds 0 3
Def. Rebounds 30 25
Blocks 3 5
Steals 6 3
Assists 25 9
Turnovers 5 7
Fouls 20 10

I was Denver and got my ass annihilated, lol. There was a noticable difference in the speed of the players and it was alot more challenging playing defense, I guess its harder to react. I've also been noticing its easier to hit medium range shots as long as you get a good pick/look. I only hit 1 three but that was to be expected from a team like Denver, on the otherhand Dallas was knocking em down like crazy. I also noticed the cpu hitting more medium to long range shots. Splendid work DK!

DK, I liked your 12/28/02 rosters...but I just tried your beta2 , and I think that its good, but its a little too slow. It moves to damn slow, turbo makes me feel like hes walking, fast breaks look like hsit cause they move so slow. If possible in your next update make the speed faster, and I really like how you lowered the PF's and C's FG ratings, so the points in the paint is not too much.

yes i agree it's a bit too slow...

I like the overall game style with the reduced speed ot this v2 beta. This way I can play more minutes for quarter and have more realistic numbers for my team.

I really like everything of this new roster DK, but one thing is worse than ever: dribble and freestyle moves. I always play with the Magic and now Armstrong and T-Mac lose the ball in a spin move or simple crossover, that's to say in 80% of freestyle moves. I don't use freestyle to drive to the hoops, but to achieve better positions for medium range shoots, and sometimes it's useful to have T-Mac ind team and make some isolations for him. Some moves comes in hand when you do such things with superstar players, but with this rosters almost every moves become useless.

I'm not here to complai, because I really like your rosters and use them every day with joy, but there is something wrong here. Even if you don't have an analog pad, try to make the spin move with button 4 or whatever, and even very good PGs lose the ball.

I like the overall game style with the reduced speed ot this v2 beta. This way I can play more minutes for quarter and have more realistic numbers for my team.

I really like everything of this new roster DK, but one thing is worse than ever: dribble and freestyle moves. I always play with the Magic and now Armstrong and T-Mac lose the ball in a spin move or simple crossover, that's to say in 80% of freestyle moves. I don't use freestyle to drive to the hoops, but to achieve better positions for medium range shoots, and sometimes it's useful to have T-Mac ind team and make some isolations for him. Some moves comes in hand when you do such things with superstar players, but with this rosters almost every moves become useless.

I'm not here to complai, because I really like your rosters and use them every day with joy, but there is something wrong here. Even if you don't have an analog pad, try to make the spin move with button 4 or whatever, and even very good PGs lose the ball.

I've never lost a ball whe doing a spin or a crossover, the only time I have lost the ball is sometimes when driving out of triple threat position with a bad ball handler.

It' s really strange, because this is not related to someone's skills, I just tell the player to do a spin move and he loses the ball. I would never complain about a something that could be my fault or related to my poor skills. In last game Kidd stole 10 balls, all from crossovers or spin moves made by Armstrong and T-Mac where they lost the ball.

I really like the pace of the game because I can have more control on defense and try to anticipate some moves made by CPU, moves that before were made at supersonic speed.

Maybe it's something related to my settings? I play Superstar, Arcade with all ON, 8 minutes, CPU Shot, Unlocked and default settings in Player Profile. Can't go back to All-Star since FT are way way too easy: last Season I tried in All-Star mode I had all my starter in the first 10 positions in FT% League Leaders.

DK, please check your PM, I have some suggestions for you.

I just finished my first game with Beta2 and it was quite enjoyable. The speed is slow...but I think it may be just right to play with at about 10 minute quarters, possibly even use for 11 or 12 minutes, so you get realistic Minutes Per Game stats. I played All-Star, Arcade, All Rules, Fouls were each a few from the max. Shot Control User. Played only at 9-minutes this game. I turn my crash boards and box out off, to get better rebound numbers, or atleast attempt. I kept all defensive matchups at AUTO expect I had Double Team to Yes for Tim Duncan. I was Boston.

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Entire Game         San Antonio      Boston           

Points              77               96               
Bench Scoring       33               40               
Field Goals         25/79            41/83           
Field Goal %        .316             .494             
3 Point FG          13/39            8/21             
3 Point %           .333             .381             
Free Throws         14/18            6/8             
Free Throw %        .778             .750             
Rebounds            26               55               
Off. Rebounds       5                13               
Def. Rebounds       21               42               
Blocks              7                8               
Steals              15               5               
Assists             12               31               
Turnovers           15               24               
Fouls               16               16               


I really dominated early. It was 46-18 at the Half...They started to make a run, as I expected and they got it as low as 9, but I started the 3rd with a solid run, and then I was able to relax and cruise to victory.

I'll probably turn fouls up a notch. The mid range shooting was pretty good but San Antontio was missing a ALOT in the paint...possibly lowered the ratings a little too much or just a one time thing, need to play a few more games. 39 3's is a lot...even though being down by so much, at times they were just taking them from like 30 feet. They got the bulk of their steals when they made a run from 20 down to 9 in the 3rd.I'm going to try to host another team with the Celtics and see if this pounding was just a one time thing.

The roster is not bad, but my fear is that it takes away certain challenges when playing the cpu and one can now dominate the cpu at times. More work has to be done to improve things and I'm willing to assist in whatever capacity deemed necessary.

DK, when I play Orlando I always notice M Miller only laying the ball in and never dunking. I checked his stats and his dunk rating is 54(!), I bumped him up to 70. Probably not your fault but could ya bump his dunks up a bit in the future? Strangely enough Garrity's dunk is at 71 and he rarely ever dunks, even given the opportunity.

I got beat bad my first game on beta2, the speed changed screwed up my timing. I probably play and post the stats later today.

here's another game between denver and dallas, i was denver. superstar, 8 minutes, cpu

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Entire Game         Denver           Dallas           

Points              85               114             
Bench Scoring       21               54               
Field Goals         33/67            47/68           
Field Goal %        .493             .691             
3 Point FG          4/20             3/7             
3 Point %           .200             .429             
Free Throws         15/24            17/19           
Free Throw %        .625             .895             
Rebounds            20               23               
Off. Rebounds       8                4               
Def. Rebounds       12               19               
Blocks              5                6               
Steals              7                10               
Assists             20               28               
Turnovers           13               10               
Fouls               12               15     

As you can see it was similiar to the last game. However this time around I forgot I was the away team and accidently set the computers defense to "zone defense" and turned off crash boards and boxing out, I also set their offense to motion. I saw a big change in the computers play too. On defense they were absolutely ruthless, if I took my guy past the three point line I'd instantly get double teamed, if I dumped it down low I'd get double teamed(and usually get the ball stolen). Because they did this I managed to get some wide open 3pointers and I even made a few but as you can see Denver isn't much of a 3point shooting team. Now about Dallas's offense.. The computer kept dumping it down low sometimes right under the basket, and I absolutely could not stop them(as seen by the 70% FG)! This was because of the motion defense I accidently set on them(which are postup plays). In conclusion this game was ALOT different from the previous game, Bradley had 20 points, finley only had 16, nowitski had like 6(last game finley had 30, nowitski 22..). I love how I can shoot long range shots now, again, splendid work DK!

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Entire Game         Philadelphia     Orlando         

Points              57               91               
Bench Scoring       11               14               
Field Goals         22/62            37/68           
Field Goal %        .355             .544             
3 Point FG          5/21             7/20             
3 Point %           .238             .350             
Free Throws         8/13             10/13           
Free Throw %        .615             .769             
Rebounds            20               43               
Off. Rebounds       2                10               
Def. Rebounds       18               33               
Blocks              5                6               
Steals              14               11               
Assists             13               27               
Turnovers           21               19               
Fouls               19               8               


Whew! I was at one point in the first quarter leading 18-4, but they actually managed to make some more FGs. My only complaint about this game was missed layups and dunks. McGrady missed a dunk and 2 layups, Hill layed one ball up it bounced high off the glass and sailed to the opposite side of the basket, he caught NO rim. AI was a weakling, all he did was drop threes like Ray Allen.

T-Mac was 1-7 on three point FGs. About four or five of them were wide open. I wouldn't have shot that many if he wasn't. I'm actually surprised my 3pt % was that low with all the good looks and my perception of the game. Oh well, it's MUCH better than I was getting though.

I noticed again a strange error. Once in a while a player can take a jump shot under the rim and the ball seems to hit the net, stick to it for a moment, and then reappear on the floor as if it were a missed shot. It's happened a couple of times. Now if only I could save replays!

Another quirk is that receiving a pass or dribbling right on the half-court line seems to draw a backcourt violation.

Well, i'm not using the latest roster,, i'm using the one before that. I've also changed a few things.
edited

everyone in my team FG rating -10
everyone in my team inside scoring -10

every other team but mine FGrating +5
every other team but mine inside scoring +5

this means that I have to accually look for the right shots to take. It's allot tougher but very fun

he's a game i just played 8min/superstar, me being the Jazz

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Entire Game         Sacramento       Utah             

Points              90               95               
Bench Scoring       26               33               
Field Goals         40/77            36/77           
Field Goal %        .519             .468             
3 Point FG          2/13             6/17             
3 Point %           .154             .353             
Free Throws         8/11             17/21           
Free Throw %        .727             .810             
Rebounds            29               44               
Off. Rebounds       7                14               
Def. Rebounds       22               30               
Blocks              6                1               
Steals              10               3               
Assists             17               15               
Turnovers           9                13               
Fouls               15               7               


I dominated the boards, but other than that pretty realistic.

DK, when will you release updated tweaked rosters?





Ricky Davis must be improoved, because when simulating game he's not leader. Darius Miles' overall must be much lower(CAVS' LEADER ), because of the real stats.

THx

Here's my game Orlando (me) vs San Antonio. I tried playing 12 min quarters with Beta 2 rosters, Superstar, CPU shoot.

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Entire Game         San Antonio      Orlando         

Points              125              108             
Bench Scoring       39               33               
Field Goals         50/95            40/88           
Field Goal %        .526             .455             
3 Point FG          10/27            5/20             
3 Point %           .370             .250             
Free Throws         15/29            23/33           
Free Throw %        .517             .697             
Rebounds            33               57               
Off. Rebounds       5                14               
Def. Rebounds       28               43               
Blocks              9                4               
Steals              19               4               
Assists             32               25               
Turnovers           6                23               
Fouls               23               18


The % are great and the game was a lot of fun! But, as you can see, the score is a bit too high (apart from my super negative turnover number, because I was trying to understand what could cause the lost balls, and I've realized it's totally related to double analog pad and freestyle) Playing 12 min quarters gives you the opportunity to control more bench players and have a realistic NBA game. Fouls put a lot of players in foul trouble and the game is more interesting.

So what can be done? Lower the number of FG (not the percentage of good FG)? Seems difficult to make it possible just tweaking the rosters... but I really hope that thic can be made.

I like this version of DK's rosters. Don't know what can be done for the lost balls... maybe adjusting the ballhandling rate?

Soryy, but i don't understand why some of you play "CPU Shoot"? You can't compare such results with "User Shoot".

Because CPU shooting is the straightest way to tell if the tweaked ratings are succesful or not. I can shoot a lot more FG if I play in User Shoot, and I'm trying to understand what are the settings that can give me the impression to play a real NBA game. It's not the point at which I realese the ball that makes my game a simulation of an NBA game.

We can't tell other people how they must play this game, because everyone has his personal idea of a simulated NBA match.

i also have the problem of the steals, the cpu steals too many , and not just pass interceptions, and sometimes those steals are ridiculous.

I ´d also like to ask how do you try to make the cpu miss a shot, i always jump to make a player miss, but i don´t know if there is any better way to do it.

yah.. too much steals (especially the ball handling, crossovers, freestyles).. can u adjust the ballhandlin a little DK? but really nice patch.. it really slows the game (besides the crossovers, etc.) tnx

Try all star. As far as I can tell there is a signifigant difference in steals. My last game on superstar I had 26 turnovers, whereas normally on all-star I usually get >20. The only problem on all-star is the computer shooting is atrocious, I've yet for the computer to shoot above 39% on my last couple of games. It's even worse if the team you are playing has a crappy point guard.(because a point guard lobs up threes on this game, I played against Hudson and he shot 16 threes by himself and converted a very little of them)

On superstar I find myself getting stripped incredibly easy by sub-par players. The CPU can take the ball from you without actually using the steal animation. I noticed at least a couple of times my last game on superstar that the computer stripped me WHILE I was coming down with an offensive rebound. I wish I could do that!

I don't know much about freestyle handling because don't use it too much.(no analog stick) I occasionly will do a spinmove or crossover but I haven't noticed a problem.

What I recommend is to try to run a lot of pick and rolls. It's hard initially to figure out the who, where, and how of it but it will pay off. The pick and roll will set you up for either an easier shot or an easier pass. What's interesting is when the screen man rolls to the basket the computer doesn't do a good job of stopping him, so you'll get a close shot at the basket.

Another big oponents(CPU) disadvantege. When CPU defends, it always tries to steal the ball and you have a big chance to run free to the basket.









\\\\DK, it looks that you're gone away for a long. You don't update your tweaked rosters (or beta2). Where are you?

I'm sorry guys but this is midterms week for me and this year all of my calsses are a lot harder than before so until Friday I'm going to be pretty busy and then a new beta will come out and I'm also working on some seperate stuff with Tony Starks on a different beta.

DK:

No problem. Thanks for all the hard work(time and talent) you have put forth so far. It's is greatly appreciated. Good luck with mid terms.

I have some good news

I just realized I have a roster that has been edited a lot since beta2, and I just played a LA vs HOU(me) game

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Entire Game         LA Lakers        Houston         

Points              99               105             
Bench Scoring       28               26               
Field Goals         35/84            40/79           
Field Goal %        .417             .506             
3 Point FG          8/24             10/24           
3 Point %           .333            .417             
Free Throws         21/30            15/16           
Free Throw %        .700             .938             
Rebounds            36               43               
Off. Rebounds       4                4               
Def. Rebounds       32               39               
Blocks              5                11               
Steals              9                7               
Assists             15               26               
Turnovers           13               16               
Fouls               18               23               


Player Of The Game: Ming 32 points, 13 boards and 4 blocks
Honorable Mention: Shaq 22 and 14, Kobe 28 and 8 assists, Francis 29 and 8 assists, Rice 19 of the bench with 4 boards (4-8 3s)

It was tied 90-90 with 9 sec left, Shaq went to the line for 2 (he was 0-8 untill now) and made BOTH! I got the ball to Francis and was hurrinig, with 5 sec I called for a pic and roll and Francis had a cler lane for a huge jam and he put it down with 2.1 left. (I was really excited as this was my only dunk in the game except for 2 by Ming in the post and an ally-oop by Taylor, BTW this ally-oop had a weird animation cause Taylor can't jump high it seems.) Fisher missed the long 3 to win the game.

In OT it was really close untill they started to miss 3s and Rice got fouled on a 3 that put me up by 6.

So here is the new file

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/dadokasper/live2003/betaV3.zip

Changes
Speed and Quick Difference
PG Primacy (Fisher used to take at least 20 shots and 15 3s every time I played the Lakers, not anymore)
Big Men Shooting made more realistic
Def Awareness raised
There is probably sometrhing else I cant remember as this week has been hell in school.

So as always feedback is appreciated.

Here is another game I played

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Entire Game         Houston          San Antonio     

Points              111              98               
Bench Scoring       36               28               
Field Goals         48/90            38/81           
Field Goal %        .533             .469             
3 Point FG          12/24            9/24             
3 Point %           .500             .375             
Free Throws         3/3              13/17           
Free Throw %        1.000            .765             
Rebounds            42               34               
Off. Rebounds       11               5               
Def. Rebounds       31               29               
Blocks              10               2               
Steals              11               10               
Assists             24               15               
Turnovers           13               16               
Fouls               15               13               


Player Of Game- Ming 22 Pts, 5 Reb, 6 Blk, 4 Ast

Honorable Mention
Francis 26 Pts (4-7 3s), 4 Reb
Mobley 19 Pts, 8 Ast
Griffin 4 Pts, 14 Reb

Robinson 20 Pts, 10 Reb
Smith 20 Pts
Duncan 17 Pts, 13 Reb (7 in 1st Quarter )


It was 51-50 at the half but then in the 3rd they just couldn't hit a damn thing, I got up big. They made a run it the 4th and cut it to 1 but then the chill set in again and I was able to extend my lead again. On another note Griffin stole about 7 rebounds that Ming should have had, every time they both went up for it Griffin won the battle.