.:My Tweaked Roster Patch - BY DK 1/24/03 UPDATE OUT:.

dk, i think, you're right! your roster ist great for the average and better player!

Yes, your roster is really good! My D is not bad and i have only 2-3 dunks and 5-7 rebounds per quarter... Maybe even less.

8min
superstar

Maybe my gamestyle is different.

DK, how many rebounds you usually get?

Both teams average about 11 rebounds per quatrer.

i get ca 30-35 (sonics are very weak under the baskets) and my opponents 30-40!
at 8 minutes, all-star

I play with Rockets and never get more than 7 rebounds per quarter. Maybe superstar level cause this problem?And high fg% too?

Got to agree with you guys , the roster works great...
I'm not a great live player but i can really see when i play crappy D my opponent has a high FG%.

Think this roster patch can't get much better , it just depends on everyones defence how high the FG% is.
For me it works great.

I think I have made a breakthrough, by lowering Quckness drastically (60-70 range) and increasing Dribble (90-99 range) I have made driving to the hoop a lot tougher.

The problem before was very apparent when Stackhouse would dunk every time for some reason, Or when you would keep the CPU at bay for 20 seconds of the shot clock and then it decided to get past you very fast for a dunk without a problem.

Now players dribble and run at the same speed as before (don't wory the good ones don't lose the ball and when someone does it is VERY rare) but they cut and change direction when dribbling a lot slower and more realistically, this makes getting past the defender a lot tougher and makes shooters take jumpers instead of geting cheap dunks.

I have also been testing a new FG formula that is on a 50-80 scale ingame (0 to 60 in DB).

The formula is what ESPN calls a adjusted FG% edited to produce #s between 0 and 60, It is

Code:

{[(PTS-FTM)/FGA)/2)]/9.53}*1000

This produces a number between 0 and 60 and determines the players FG rating, it is used for fair evaluation of 3pt shooters since they hit less shots but make more points.


Look out for a new roster by the end of the weekend hopefully.

Hey I've got question for you?
Why the cpu always try a penetration instead of shoting?
I always get 40/50 points from the paint , it's too much! I've tried everithing : turning off the defensive 3 sec. rule so i can let a player stand in the paint, but nothing........ they always try a penetration no matters how tough is my defence...........

Keep up the good work DK. Your rosters are the best around. Can't wait for every new release!"

yes i noticed that too.....i also noticed that my opponent team always shoot about 20-25 3Pointers every game, that become 30 or + if they're losing.
And what about middle range shots?.......it's impossible make a middle shot, i'm about 15% from middle range........

make some adjustment DK......

yea my only problem with DK's rosters is you can't make any middle range shots, if i'm lucky i might get 5. I use pick n rolls and almost always have a clear look at the basket but it always misses..

You guys must really not understand that the game is flawed and I can only do so much. The fact is that EA programmed a very flawed game.

It is impossible to stop the CPU from drving, unfortunately, when it wants to go to the basket nothing can stop or change that.

Increasing FG to make more midrange jumpers would make the CPU shoot 70% since it just takes post shots.

Tweaking can only do little, the real problems can only be fixed by EA.

The only thing that could fix this would be a patch from EA and we know that won't happen, hell Tim was running this site a few years ago and was friends with all the people that strived to get the best basketball simulation ever, now he is one of the head producers of NBA Live and he sold us out and let EA make this crappy unrealistic game.

DK, don't diss on Tim like that, he didn't sell anyone out. Tim (along with Lutz and Brien) did more for us Live PC fans than anyone ever has done and probably ever will do. If I recall correctly, he's only in charge of the roster aspect of the game, rating players and the like.

And all EA did was make the game most people wanted. From 1997, the majority of the complaints I saw on the NLSC was people wanting more fastbreaks and autosubs off by default. Now everyone's complaing about the opposite.

The masses don't want realistic games, they want to fastbreak, dunk and block shots. Live's always been more arcadish than simulation, the reason it's always sold better than it's competitors.

Of course I'd like EA to make the simulation game more realistic by taking the current game and making the cpu shoot more jumpers, lowering blocks and intercepted passes, toning the speed and fast breaks down a little (and adding authentic arenas ), leave the arcade mode how the game is now out of the box. If you work at it, you can make this play more realistic than any PC Live. I don't think global edits are the way to go, however you and others do, whatever people like right?

The point is, don't go "hating" on Tim because he hasn't sold out and he's done tons for us in the past, present and future. Remember, EA is a large company and in a large company it's rare to gain seniority in two-three years. So...if you're gonna complain about EA, do it, just don't be a Tim "hatuh", because your personal dislike of the game is not Tim's fault.

BTW, for your strength thing, is that 90-99 in the game or dbf? if it's in the game, I would suggest adjusting so guards are perhaps 80-89, forwards are 85-95 or something, so you get more of a difference between guards and big men.

I didn't know he was just in charge of rosters, I thought he was an assistant producer. Even though he just the roster guy and not pleased with the game I hope he expressed his frustrations with the programmers in charge of the AI and the people telling the programmers to make the AI like this.

Thanks for the advice on the strengh thing.

What do you mean by "global editing is not the way to go"? If you can come out with a better playing more realistic roster, and I hope you do, I will probably stop making mine since my roster needs would be filled.

He's an Assistant Producer who's "responsibilities included managing the Rosters, Player Ratings and Franchise Mode", or least the last I knew. I'm sure he has expressed any issues he has with the game.

I don't think global editing is the way to go because the original ratings weren't always accurate for players anyway, in my opinion, player specific editing is the way to go, but not many people have the patience, knowledge or desire to do such a thing. But if you do spend the time, you will get great results. However, I'm beginning to think that perhaps a combination of the two may be the best way to go. Oh, and welcome to the nbalive.org Forum.

Hi, i have a question. I have downloaded an earlier version of your roster DK. I have created five players and put them into different teams. If i now download the newest version of your rosters, what happens to my created players? Can i keep them somehow? Will i have to create them new?

TheBigEasy

DK you´ve done a grat work, i think it´s difficult to satisfy everyone.
However i still find a problem, but i´m not sure it can be solved by tweaking. When you´re on the low post if you just wait till the defender tries to steal the ball from you, if at that moment you move towards the basket you´ll get an easy basket, and the problem is that they try to steal the ball nearly always. I think this is the main problem now, and that the tweaks don´t seem to work after having played the first match whith them.

Yeah, CPU always goes for the steal. I've turned steals and defensive awareness both down to 50 and nothing really changes at all.(in ANY respect as far as I have noticed) It's seems as if they are there for nothing but looks. So changing player ratings appears to be out of the question for that.

There is so much that needs to be worked on, unfortunately most of it needs to be done by EA. The mid-range jump shot and fade away is a virtually impossible way to score. As opposed in real life, for example, T-MAC can throw down 20ft fade aways with a hand in his face, a bad back, a contusion in his back, and a turned ankle with deadly accuracy. Try to do that on Live 2003 with a healthy T-mac, no way.

Oh my god, what a bad game ... I have tried your rosters DK and you have done great work. I have played simulation, allstar, 8 minutes. I was New Orleans and played vs. the Boston Celtics. First Quarter i could manage to stay close to them. It was 33 : 32 for Boston. But in the second quarter i lost the game. On time, they had a 18 : 0 run . In the end, Baron Davis was fouled out, with only 3 Points. Thats my main problem, i get too many players to fast into foultrouble. Any suggestions how to avoid this?

Here are the stats:

Kompl. Spiel Boston New Orleans

Points 128 85
Benchpoints 36 32
Shots 50/90 38/111
Shotpercentage 55,6% 34,2%
Three 3/7 6/36
Threepercentage 42,9% 16,7%
Freethrows 25/32 3/11
Freethrowperc. 78,1% 27,3%
Rebounds 59 49
Off. Rebounds 6 17
Def. Rebounds 53 32
Blocks 8 2
Steals 7 5
Assists 34 22
Ballverluste 10 9
Fouls 8 31

I think i have to practice a little bit more . Especially the foul thingy i have to improve.

TheBigEasy

P.S: But there is still the question of created players. How can i transfer them to your new roster?

In the end, Baron Davis was fouled out, with only 3 Points. Thats my main problem, i get too many players to fast into foultrouble. Any suggestions how to avoid this?

don't try to steal the ball, when the other teams PG is dribbling behind the 3pt line...

it was my first bad and i don't do that any more...

I noticed the same thing. Since I cut down on attempting to steal I have played a lot better D.

Now I won all games on superstar level, 8 mins, simulation. Look at this game.

Code:

Entire Game         Memphis          Phoenix         

Points              69               120             
Bench Scoring       21               40               
Field Goals         27/81            54/87           
Field Goal %        .333             .621             
3 Point FG          8/35             5/17             
3 Point %           .229             .294             
Free Throws         7/9              7/14             
Free Throw %        .778             .500             
Rebounds            20               52               
Off. Rebounds       2                15               
Def. Rebounds       18               37               
Blocks              4                13               
Steals              9                4               
Assists             20               31               
Turnovers           15               12               
Fouls               22               8               

It sucks when you are so good(joke).

All right guys this is what I have to tell you

The game is wht you make of it, I have been playing on AllStar with a new tweaked roster with 11 min quarters and getting great results. The secret? Play like real NBA teams do, I didn't just throw it in for the easy cheap dunks or spun towards the easy jams all the time or shot with 20 seconds on the clock, if you run the clock till 10 sec or less the CPU starts to run it too. I passed the ball on the perimeter and screened for the jumpers. Here are some stats from my games.

LA SAC(me) went into OT

Code:

Entire Game         LA Lakers        Sacramento       

Points              118              120             
Bench Scoring       11               20               
Field Goals         44/100           48/95           
Field Goal %        .440             .505             
3 Point FG          9/27             9/22             
3 Point %           .333             .409             
Free Throws         21/30            15/15           
Free Throw %        .700             1.000           
Rebounds            45               47               
Off. Rebounds       10               8               
Def. Rebounds       35               39               
Blocks              2                12               
Steals              14               11               
Assists             17               28               
Turnovers           16               18               
Fouls               16               20               


Kobe and Shaq hand 70 combined but Peja and CWebb put up 70 of their own.

BOS(me) PHI

Code:

Entire Game         Boston           Philadelphia     

Points              105              102             
Bench Scoring       29               26               
Field Goals         39/84            39/86           
Field Goal %        .464             .453             
3 Point FG          10/24            7/21             
3 Point %           .417             .333             
Free Throws         17/19            17/23           
Free Throw %        .895             .739             
Rebounds            39               42               
Off. Rebounds       10               8               
Def. Rebounds       29               34               
Blocks              10               2               
Steals              7                9               
Assists             19               21               
Turnovers           18               18               
Fouls               18               28               


I shot well and made my FTs at the end to seal it, Pierce had a real nice game from the outside.
Here is my shot chart for the game



So if you want the game to play realistically you have to play that way too.

yup i'm gettin those 95-89 games too

BTW here are the stats from my 1st game on nba live 2003
(superstar, 10 mins, no tweaks, minnesota)

Code:

Entire Game         Minnesota        LA Clippers     

Points              127              215             
Bench Scoring       49               109             
Field Goals         52/121           82/118           
Field Goal %        .430             .695             
3 Point FG          9/39             8/17             
3 Point %           .231             .471             
Free Throws         14/44            43/55           
Free Throw %        .318             .782             
Rebounds            37               64               
Off. Rebounds       9                2               
Def. Rebounds       28               62               
Blocks              13               17               
Steals              10               13               
Assists             11               49               
Turnovers           30               23               
Fouls               39               32               


DK, when I play I usually lose and sometimes get blown out but not because of my D. The computer opponent puts up realistic numbers but I just can't put up good numbers myself on the other end. I'll shoot ~30% but allow roughly 40-50%. I don't shoot very many threes either. The only way I can get McGrady to shoot a good percentage playing his style is bumping his FG rating up.(which is low even relative to the other players on the magic, M Miller has a higher FG IIRC) I don't like doing that though because it's not fair to the other(few) good shooters in the league.

Below is a chart of McGrady's shooting using a FG rating of 99 on All-Star. These include wide open shots, mostly contested jump shots, and contested fade aways. Also included in the misses are 4 shots of mine that were blocked. Please note that this was purely for experimentation, I don't put up THAT many shots in a real game for T-Mac.

Edit: Whoops, Geocities won't let me do that. Well, uhmm... I shot 19/43 or 44%.

BTW, do you play as a locked player or unlocked? I lock on to the shooting guard personally. The problem doing that is the computer will turn the ball over like crazy. I'll have 3 or 4 turnovers myself, the rest of the team will have ~20. I know to be careful with the ball and my passing, especially in 2003, the only problem is the computer doesn't.

I'll play a game later and post the results, let me know what you think.

TheBigEasy, take a A LOT less three's man. 30 of your misses came from 3's. 36 is just too many, unless you are the Celtics. The computer took 90 shots, seems about right, you don't have a problem there.