New Updated NBA Roster Patch Tweaked using real NBA stats

[rEdHoBBeS]

we have such a fair nd just leader

[IceOnFire]

That's fair enough. Thank you very much.

http://www.enlhoops.com/downloads.php

[Andrew]

Thanks, much appreciated.

[tiger]

I do not doubt that you have done some good work in tweaking the rosters, but the fact of the matter remains you should have approached me first.

If you check the zip file, in the installation file, you were given credit.

Fair enough, but that's still insufficient. After all, I created the missing players and kept up with transactions. Obviously, you've put a lot of work into tweaking them for better gameplay but a lot of work has gone into what was already done when you modified the patch.

If you use someone else's work as a base, they deserve full credit for the work they have done and they must be clearly acknowledged as having contributed to your project. And you must ask them first.

Tell you what. I'm fine with you distributing the roster patch as long as I'm given full credit for the work I have done. That means acknowledging it was based on a version of the NLSC roster update and acknowledging me as the original author of the patch - not just in the installation file or readme, but also on any download pages or pages containing information about the roster patch.

You should be thankful that someone gave you some credit. Just about every league in here uses your patch as a base, therefore you should be lucky when a league actually admits to using it. I know its a lot of work doing roster patches, I did some patches for the PS2 back in Live 2002 when they didn't include a lot of players, but thats no reason to be mean to someone because he is actually giving you credit, you didn't create his patch, you didn't make the equations that use real nba stats to give out the ratings he has now, so techincally, all he used from your patch was the new player information (name, college, etc) and nothing else. Be happy with your credit. If you are really mad at people using your patch without giving you credit, then the ENL Patch should be the last place to come and bitch about you not getting credit, I would start off with other patchers that just use your patch, change the name and release it saying they did it.

The way I see it, you got enough credit for it, as all he used from your patch was the player information and not the ratings.

[Andrew]

You should be thankful that someone gave you some credit.

Are you familiar with the concept of copyrighted material and using someone else's work without permission, and giving credit where credit is due?

but thats no reason to be mean to someone because he is actually giving you credit

Oh, so it's mean to be upset when someone uses my work without permission?

you didn't create his patch, you didn't make the equations that use real nba stats to give out the ratings he has now, so techincally, all he used from your patch was the new player information (name, college, etc) and nothing else.

I created a bunch of missing players, I modified Dstats and ratings, I kept up with transactions, I updated bio data and what not. That's a fair bit of work, and it saves other people a lot of work if they do not have to do that in the first place. I freely admit, tweaking the ratings for better gameplay is a lot of work and it's great work too, but it saves a lot of time if the other stuff is already done.

Be happy with your credit.

How DARE you instruct me how to feel? I deserve full credit for the use of my roster as a base, the same as Jowe deserves full credit for anyone using his textures, the same as Tony deserves full credit if one his patches is used in a complete player update.

If you are really mad at people using your patch without giving you credit, then the ENL Patch should be the last place to come and bitch about you not getting credit, I would start off with other patchers that just use your patch, change the name and release it saying they did it.

This isn't bitching. I have a right to be upset if my work is used without my permission, same as everyone else.

The way I see it, you got enough credit for it, as all he used from your patch was the player information and not the ratings.

"All he used...was the player information"? And the created players (which takes time when there's over 50 of them), and the transactions, and the updated bio data. Originally, I was only credited in the installation file. In this community, we publically acknowledge the contributions of other patchmakers to our projects.

Why do you think some player updates contain notes about other patchmakers ("textures by Jowe" and "shoes by Steve")? Because it's wrong to take full credit for everything when you didn't do everything.

This is not about being mean, as you suggest. It's about asking permission, giving full credit, and material that is protected by Internet copyright law. The fact that I had already sorted this out with IceOnFire and you then proceed to attack me over my position, which is justified, is way out of line.

Essentially, you are saying that I am not entitled to feel as I do and that my position is not valid. You also seem to suggest that I do not deserve much credit for what I have done. I suggest you re-think your attitude, because my position on this matter is no different to the position other patchmakers have taken throughout the history of the online NBA Live community.

Using someone else's work without permission is frowned upon. I do not appreciate your insinuation that I am an egomaniac who should shutup and be happy with a fleeting mention that the original roster patch was my work.

If IceOnFire and ENL is fine with giving me credit for using my roster patch as a base, then I don't see why you have to attack me in this manner.

[BIG GREEN]

It may not be an enforced rule to give credit but it's how things are generally done here in the NBA live community. You guys seem to be new to the scene so we have to tell you how it is...you use some or any part of someone else's work and it's just not a nice thing to ask first.

Many times people have asked me to use my work and i simply tell them yes...and we get along fine. However, whenever someone uses my work without permission it pisses me off...and same for any other patcher in this community. Mabe you guys haven't experienced it yet..but if you stick around long enough...it will happen to you too.

Just try to be a little more courteous.

[Andrew]

That's a good summation of the idea Yohance . Asking permission first and giving full credit for the use of the original work is an expected courtesy in the community. It's not about ego, it's about acknowledging the original author's efforts and making sure they are OK with you using their work.

Sometimes a patchmaker may not want to give permission for their work to be used in another project for whatever reason. It may be that they wish to update their work and they don't want an inferior version to be used elsewhere. Credit is so often misplaced, so some patchmakers may feel upset about credit for their shoe patch or their jersey textures or whatever going to someone else.

But the fact of the matter is, with the point made about permission and credit and the courtesy of the community, I'm fine with the ENL roster patch. I've been given appropriate credit for the use of my roster as a base, so I have no objection to the further distribution of the ENL roster. Yes, I would have preferred to have been asked first, but what's done is done and there's no reason to hold a grudge.

As far as I'm concerned, the issue has been sorted and needs no further discussion. If there are to be any more posts in this thread, they should be contain feedback about IceOnFire's roster patch.

[IceOnFire]

Sounds like this post is more of a lesson in copyright actions than the actually point of the discussion. Anyway, getting back to the original topic, if anyone has comments or suggestions pertaining to the roster patch, feel free to post your opinions. Thanks!