Video cards nvidia FX VS Radeon ATI

[Jase23]

I have the Sapphire 128MB DDR ATI-Radeon 8500le and its very inexpensive, I paid only about $90.00USD including shipping. Its a good card and plays NBA Live 2003 and Madden 2004 @ 1024x768 16 or 32bit and it plays smoothly. If price is a major issue go for the card i got, if not then aim at a more higher end card. I wouldn't recommend an HP Machine as they are not easily upgradable. Unless they do the upgrades you void your warranty by opening the case. Plus you pay more for the PC because of all of the extra software they preload that you never really need. Most of it loads in the startup which decreases your PC's performace because of all of the services running on startup. I owned an HP before and it sucked. I prefer a custom built unit that only comes with what I need. I'm a PC Tech so if need be I can recommend a place to get a great price on the parts.

dam, can i get rid of alot of the software i dont want?
sux about the case... voiding the warranty.......

[endofanera]

You can get rid of the software it will just take a bit of fiddling around.

In the US opening the case does not void the warranty, the sticker says it but it's not legally enforceable.

I'm not sure how that works in Australia.

With the HP system a few negatives are that you probably won't be able to upgrade the motherboard, standard boards possibly won't fit in the case. Also if the power supply dies which is quite common you will probably have to get a replacement from HP at a ridiculous price because standard ATX power supplies might not fit the case. Another problem is that you probably won't get an actual windows XP cd. You will get a set of restore cd's which will restore the system to it's original state when it came from the factory, so you will lose all your data unless you back it up to another medium. This can be quite a problem if you need to re-install windows. Especially seeing how useful the repair install option is with XP.

Of course this last problem isn't insurmountable, if you have your windows product key you can install windows from a copied cd and it will still be legal.

Oh by the way I'm a Taswegian too

[Superchunk]

Have you flashed the Bios on the 9800 to a pro Bios? I have a mate who did that and it gave him quite a speed increase at the same core/memory frequencies. Tighter ram timings I believe.

How many 3Dmarks are you getting?

I haven't flashed it yet, but I have done all the research on it and my card should have no problem with it. I haven't done it yet for two reasons, 1. it is brand new and I dont' want to risk it yet and 2. I want to wait until this card doesn't feel as fast anymore, that will be a nice treat in a few months

I get about 5700 on '03 and 17300 on '01. Not the best scores but I'm about middle of the pack for people with the 9800pro even though mine is a non-pro, so that is pretty good I figure. I don't optimize for benchmarking at all.

[endofanera]

I would recommend a custom system from somewhere like

Cougar Computers
http://www.cougar.com.au/index.cfm?id=8

Over a Dell/HP/Gateway system if your not comfortable building your own.

[Superchunk]

There are so many computer stores out there that will build a pretty good system for you at a cheap price, there is no need to go with the crappier HP/Dell/Compaq shit.

If you tell me what city you live in I wouldn't mind checking out the better stores in the area for you, comparing prices/reputation a bit...I find it fun

[Jase23]

Oh by the way I'm a Taswegian too

You are?? geez, thought i was the only one here from Tassie!

[Jase23]

I would recommend a custom system from somewhere like

Cougar Computers
http://www.cougar.com.au/index.cfm?id=8

Over a Dell/HP/Gateway system if your not comfortable building your own.

hmmmm, do they have 16 months interest free????? thats what i need!

[endofanera]

I doubt they have 16 months interest free lol

I'm from Hobart. Living in North Carolina at the moment.

[bishibashiboy]

I haven't flashed it yet, but I have done all the research on it and my card should have no problem with it. I haven't done it yet for two reasons, 1. it is brand new and I dont' want to risk it yet and 2. I want to wait until this card doesn't feel as fast anymore, that will be a nice treat in a few months

I get about 5700 on '03 and 17300 on '01. Not the best scores but I'm about middle of the pack for people with the 9800pro even though mine is a non-pro, so that is pretty good I figure. I don't optimize for benchmarking at all.

You should try flashing it! Almost all sapphire owners reach 9800pro levels no probs with a simple o/c. Just make sure you get the right bios. Just in case you can't find them here's an excellent link that's got them all:

http://www.ocfaq.com/softmod/bios.php

I flashed my Sapphire Radeon 9500pro no probs. I'm now running at 330/297 (core/mem). My core can go higher, but mem is stuck since I have bad 3.3ns infineon ram.

You got a damn nice system though. I built an identical system to yours not too long ago for my cousin but coupled it with a 9600pro and 512mb ddr400 instead. Still flies, but not quite as fast as yours with the 9800.
I noticed you have a sb live 5.1 in that system still. Why? The onboard sound of the A7N8X if i'm not mistaken is the soundstorm, and is quite good as it is.

[Jase23]

I doubt they have 16 months interest free lol

I'm from Hobart. Living in North Carolina at the moment.

So how does someone from Hobart find themselves in North Carolina??

[endofanera]

My Wife's American. She's going to school here.

Will be heading back to Tassie in a few years. Trust me, you know how great a place it is when you don't live there anymore.

[cocobee]

Just bought a geforce 5200 256 mb ddr card and i love it--I can finally see dirty unis in Madden 2004 and they look awesome!

I'm giving my friend my old geforce ti4600 so we can play each other online.

I'm sure I'll be able to play Live maxed out.(knocks on wood)

[bishibashiboy]

Just bought a geforce 5200 256 mb ddr card and i love it--I can finally see dirty unis in Madden 2004 and they look awesome!

I'm giving my friend my old geforce ti4600 so we can play each other online.

I'm sure I'll be able to play Live maxed out.(knocks on wood)

errr no offence cocobee, but you really got shafted if you give away your Ti4600 to your friend while you use a GeforceFX 5200.
The Ti4600 is still a good card and absolutely destroys the FX5200 in ANY game, guaranteed. The 5200 is slower than the Ti4200, nevermind the Ti4600.
You'd be better off giving HIM the FX and keeping the Ti4600 for yourself.

[Forky]

Bashi man makes a very good point. The FX 5200 is the NVIDIA budget card that I was talking about way up the top of this thread.

Don't get him wrong though, it's still a good card and is DirectX 9 compliant (I checked this). But what you've essentially done is trade a very high end old card for a low end new card. The high end old card is faster. The 'ti' set of cards were NVIDIA's flagships with that set.

TO JASE

Anyways, Jase, the FX 5200 can be bought in Australia for about $150 dollars. But the Radeon card that seems to be coming bundled with the computer is just as good. Just not a directX 9 card. But that won't really matter for a year or so. Unless you want to play HalfLife and Doom 3 on the highest levels.

The 9200 is more or less the same card as LittleBigMan's (8500). It has a few more features like AGP 8x support and Hyper Z III memory (also, no fan [I think], just a massive heat synch - silent running). Don't worry what they mean, it just runs things a little faster and looks a little better. Personally, I don't think you'll have any trouble running the overwhelming majority of games at all, especially not with a P4 3gig machine. Like some of the other guys have said, you might not be able to run in the really high resolutions, but then who cares? With all detail settings on at 800x600 or 1024x768 things look very good anyway.

Seriously, you'll have a very fast machine that will do all you want and more for some time to come (3 years). And unless you're a real techhead like BashiBoy or Superchunk and really know what you're talking about (and run all those 3D Benchmark tests) you won't notice any difference. Seriously.

Go with the system you're thinking about (on the interest free plan) then when you're older or have more money (whatever the case may be) go for a custom built system like has been suggested. They are usually better and quite often cheaper (but never on interest free )

My thoughts - anyone disagree or have other ideas?

[Superchunk]

I noticed you have a sb live 5.1 in that system still. Why? The onboard sound of the A7N8X if i'm not mistaken is the soundstorm, and is quite good as it is

Heh heh. Okay, so that is what I thought as well. Everyone raved about the Soundstorm and it was a major consideration for me in what board to buy (I don't yet have a raid array, I don't have SATA....I don't really need a deluxe mobo but I figured it would be worth it to get the soundstorm). When I sold my old system I lost my soundcard.

Anyway, I get the Soundstorm mobo home and hook it up to my Klipsch and the sound is awful. It is weak, tinny, the bass is all out of whack, it is quiet and to top it all off after about 1/2 hour of gaming it starts to crackle and pop very loud so that you have to turn off the sound. My speakers are stilll some of the best out there and I paid nearly $500 for them 2 years ago so I was able to really notice the difference. Turns out the Soundstorm sucks for analog sound and has a major flaw which causes this crackle and pop. Most people think it is the southbridge overheating but since my mobo is very cool at all times and it would have cost me some money to get the southbridge cooler I just went out and bought another Live card, which I think are good cards.

Thats my soundstorm story This is why when I buy a computer I obsessively research every aspect of it, and its also why I like to help others in their choices - it is so hard to be sure of what you are getting.

Other than that though, the mobo is extremely good, the dual channel ram is nice and I'm gonnna set up a raid array on it sometime, so I'm happy.

[bishibashiboy]

Good points Forky I think you got most of them, but I'll just add a few more:

The FX5200 is not a true dx9 card despite what Nvidia will tell you. It still has some dx9 functions that are missing (HDR lighting, ps2.0 NOT acceptable) and normally the only way it can play new dx9 games is simply cuz nvidia has replaced all the shaders in the game and sent them on a lower quality path (FX12) as much as possible. In the end this is why i bash the new Nvidia FX cards so hard: you're not really getting what you're paying more for (full dx9 support and quality). The card is still alright for older games, but I'm just weary of all the new dx9 games coming out and it's performance on the WHOLE FX line. Kudos to nvidia for their new drivers though, which are impressive to say the least but i'd still go with Ati in the end if you want true dx9 support (in cards above the 9200).

I also think Jase's computer will last for a while. The only hiccup is the graphics card which I think in a system like his will need to be changed within 1-1.5 years if he wants to play newer games.
In my opinion, if you're going to splurge and spend that much on a P4 3.0Ghz anyways, you should NOT be buying a budget card. The graphics card is the main component (other than cpu power) that determines how well your games will run. By buying a Radeon 9200 or FX5200, you will be crippling your system in the long run. I would say it's worth it to go down to a P4 2.8Ghz or even a 2.6Ghz, and spend the money on a good graphics card, rather than a budget one. A P4 2.6Ghz will easily outperform a 3.0Ghz if its graphics card is superior. That's what I've learned over the years the hard way.

The 9200 is also showing it's age. It's based on the old Radeon 8500. My brother has the 8500LE and he alreayd has problems rendering certain things in new games such as Halo. Water, invisibility, sniper vision are all totally screwed with it.

Hey Superchunk, sorry to hear of your experiences with the Soundstorm. I've only heard the "crackles" once and that's during bootup, but never during any other apps. Nice speakers btw.

[Jase23]

Can I just say a big thanyou to everyone for helping me out so far with all the info, what a top bunch of blokes.

I didn't go to the store today because i had a MASSIVE hangover..... where did all these empty beam cans come from.

Anyway, the latest is I might be able to get a 5600fx card with the machine, they'll put it in so the warranty isnt screwed. I'll prolly end up with the 9200 card aswell tho, dont think they can resell it or anything without packaging.... but i can maybe sell it on ebay or something...

Is the 5600fx ok? will that last awhile?

[A.I.Rulez]

Guys, what is the diff. between Sapphire ATI Radeon 9200, 9500, 9700, 9700Pro, 9600, 9600Pro, 9800 and 9800Pro ?

I can somehow get some money for the Radeon 9600Pro, but is it a better choice than all of those ?

[Superchunk]

Well, the differences are pretty complex...many of them use different core chipsets, have different speeds and quality etc...

From best to worst:

9800XT
9800Pro
9800
I'm assuming the 9600XT falls in here although I'm not positive
9700Pro
9600Pro
Then I think it goes:
9500Pro
9700
9600
9500
9200

So... the best cards are the 9800 series, after that the 9600XT which is a new card and is likely expensive, followed by the 9700/9600 pro editions which are still both excellent cards. Anything less than that and you are falling into the 'budget' range which isn't great for gaming...although the 9500pro is still a good card, but hard to find I think.

We have pretty much gone over a lot in this thread if you read it over...if you have more specific questions I'm sure they can get answered.

Re the 9600pro: What choice you make is entirely up to your budget as has been mentioned. I personally found the 9800non-pro to be the best value for me as it wasn't very expensive and gives good performance, but it is still expensive, so for you the best value might be a 9600pro, or a 9800XT if you have unlimited funds...it all depends on your machine and your price range for what the best value is. The best card in the world is the 9800XT...for what thats worth.

[A.I.Rulez]

Well, the differences are pretty complex...many of them use different core chipsets, have different speeds and quality etc...

From best to worst:

9800XT
9800Pro
9800
I'm assuming the 9600XT falls in here although I'm not positive
9700Pro
9600Pro
Then I think it goes:
9500Pro
9700
9600
9500
9200

So... the best cards are the 9800 series, after that the 9600XT which is a new card and is likely expensive, followed by the 9700/9600 pro editions which are still both excellent cards. Anything less than that and you are falling into the 'budget' range which isn't great for gaming...although the 9500pro is still a good card, but hard to find I think.

We have pretty much gone over a lot in this thread if you read it over...if you have more specific questions I'm sure they can get answered.

Re the 9600pro: What choice you make is entirely up to your budget as has been mentioned. I personally found the 9800non-pro to be the best value for me as it wasn't very expensive and gives good performance, but it is still expensive, so for you the best value might be a 9600pro, or a 9800XT if you have unlimited funds...it all depends on your machine and your price range for what the best value is. The best card in the world is the 9800XT...for what thats worth.

Thank you very much
I think i will go with the 9800 !

[bishibashiboy]

Anyway, the latest is I might be able to get a 5600fx card with the machine, they'll put it in so the warranty isnt screwed. I'll prolly end up with the 9200 card aswell tho, dont think they can resell it or anything without packaging.... but i can maybe sell it on ebay or something...

Is the 5600fx ok? will that last awhile?

Don't bother with the 5600FX. It's expensive and is worse than the 9600pro. But if given the choice of ONLY the 9200 or 5600, the 5600 is better for sure.

Superchunk got most of it right. The 9600XT is slower than the 9700pro and non-pro. It is slightly faster than the 9600pro which puts it around the same speed as 9500pro (or slightly faster in certain cases). The 9700 is also faster than any 9600. So if we revise it's:

9800XT>9800pro>9800>9700pro>9700>[9500pro>9600XT]>9600pro>9600>9500>9100>9000pro>9200pro.

You won't be sorry with the 9800!

[cocobee]

I just installed a geforce FX 5200 256mbddr card to replace my geforce ti4600 card. I wanted to get a card that'll support all the dx9 features coming out. It was a mere $97.00 on newegg. I love it so far. I play 2003 maxed out on 1600x1200 and madden 2004--I finally see the dirty unis and they are beautiful.
Since I only play madden and Live on my pC, I didn't feel i needed to get anything bigger/better. I'm sure I'll be able to play Live 2004 maxed out and on high resolutions. That's all that matters to me.

[Superchunk]

Here is an interesting cost vs. benefit analysis of the 9600pro. (I haven't read it all yet)

http://www.slcentral.com/fic-radeon-9600/page2.php

Now that I look at it Bishobs breakdown is perfect...I got pretty confused there for a minute I think So many cards.

Anyway, yeah, you can't go wrong with a 9800, you just can't[/url]

[A.I.Rulez]

Will the Radeon 9200 play my games snoothly with high detalis at 1024X768 ?

Can it run DX9.0 games ?

[Jase23]

Will the Radeon 9200 play my games snoothly with high detalis at 1024X768 ?

Can it run DX9.0 games ?

Hi, i think from what im learning so far is that the 9200 will play direct x 9 games, but it cant handle directx 9 new effects. So you'll still be able to play them, but just not with all the whizz bang effects that true directx 9 cards can do.