NBA 2K20 Sliders Central

[Andrew]

Alright, we're going to give this a try. If it takes off, we might end up having a dedicated sliders section, but for now, I'd like to try having a central thread to discuss sliders, post sliders, and list other slider threads so that they can easily be found and referenced. In other words, this isn't the only place you're allowed to talk about sliders here in the NBA 2K20 section, but for those people who are averse to creating new topics (maybe because they just have a quick question) or are trying to find existing threads, hopefully it will be useful. Any questions, feel free to task!

Individual Topics with Slider Sets

Here is a listing of individual topics dedicated to slider sets, along with a brief description to help you find what you're looking for.

• Dee4three Slider Tweaks - Player Movement, etc - Intended to help with player movement, and make the game feel more organic on the sticks.
• Shady's NBA 2K20 Simulation Sliders **Beta*** 2/1 - Aims to tune the gameplay for the most realistic performance and style.

A few general notes and tips regarding sliders

• No slider set can ever be guaranteed to work for absolutely everyone. You may find that you need to make your own adjustments depending on your preferences and skill level. At the very least, custom slider sets should be able to give you a good starting point. You can always ask for suggestions as far as further tweaks.
• Always make note of other recommended/required settings when it comes to sliders, such as difficulty, user timing/real player percentage, and so on.
• The correct approach is to select your difficulty first, and then make adjustments.

Slider set makers, feel free to post further info here (as well as links to your threads so that I can update the post), as well as any clarifications and addition tips/details as necessary.

[Dee4Three]

Very nice!

Hopefully this section will encourage more people to talk about sliders, or share sets they are working on, or have completed.

[Vedreanu]

Hey, great to see such a thread!
I searched for this topic with the sole reason of finding someone who could possibly help me with NBA 2K20 sliders.

Whats my problem?
I like WATCHING/SIMULATING NBA2k20 matches, instead of playing the game. Yes, I am ill, and theres no coming back.

Its a joy for me, but, there also a problem - I am watching the matches with the goal of reaching the REALISTIC gameplay, but also REALISTIC WIN DISTRIBUTION!
The latter is a real headache.

Just cant achieve a single win in a MILWAUKEE vs MIAMI matchup (played in MIL), no matter what sliders I try.
And its almost always the same story - Heat hangs on in the 1st half, but gets TRASHED in 3rd quarter.

Its like BUCKS get some invisible boost in the 3rd quarter always.

I am repeating the matchup in "laboratory conditions" in the hope some day Heat will get that unprobable win, somehow, but the way these matches evolve, makes me conclude that outcome might not happen at all!


Anyone here has similar hobby, any advices?


PLEASE HELP!!

[Vedreanu]

Already I've watched 10 milwaukee-miami CPU vs CPU matches...
every single one has been won by bucks by double digits, in the area of 20+ difference

that super not-realistic!

Here's a youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/rtm23lb/videos
which simulates real NBA matchups daily

I've looked into all those Milwaukee matches, I've seen only two losses if I recall well and maybe one for Lakers.
The bigger problem is, when those teams win, they win by 20-30 on average, which is ultra unrealistic too

Might be that those teams are just made over-powered and I am waisting my time with sliders, tactics etc...



On the other hand - I've trying simulation MIL-MIA matchup in MY LEAGUE mode, at the very start of the season...
after 70-80 SIMCAST simulations, Miami has won about 25% of those matches, which is close to realistic in my book!


So if I lower the grades for Bucks, Simcast sims would get disbalanced too..

Really dont know what to do anymore

[Vedreanu]

So, no body on the face on Earth is watching matches like me, or what?
At least, watching is a nice option for you to act like as a coach, trying to win by chaning tactics, strategy etc...
Is it possible noone is playing this game that way in MyLeague for instance?



Here, look at this - I made A LOT of matches Milwaukee - Miami lately (21 of them on my channel), you can see video for every one of them and in the description there are settings in detail that were used for that video.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdeKc9 ... subscriber


I dont have an idea what to try anymore, except drastically lowering Milwaukee's ratings. Bcs this is hilarious, the current score is:

33 wins for MIL
1 win for MIA

[Dee4Three]

Already I've watched 10 milwaukee-miami CPU vs CPU matches...
every single one has been won by bucks by double digits, in the area of 20+ difference

that super not-realistic!

Here's a youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/rtm23lb/videos
which simulates real NBA matchups daily

I've looked into all those Milwaukee matches, I've seen only two losses if I recall well and maybe one for Lakers.
The bigger problem is, when those teams win, they win by 20-30 on average, which is ultra unrealistic too

Might be that those teams are just made over-powered and I am waisting my time with sliders, tactics etc...



On the other hand - I've trying simulation MIL-MIA matchup in MY LEAGUE mode, at the very start of the season...
after 70-80 SIMCAST simulations, Miami has won about 25% of those matches, which is close to realistic in my book!


So if I lower the grades for Bucks, Simcast sims would get disbalanced too..

Really dont know what to do anymore

In each game, are the Bucks overpowering teams in one specific area? Points in the paint? Threes? On the boards?

If something stands out as consistent, yet not realistic, I would start at that point and tweak as necessary.

If it cant be tweaked slider wise, and players on the Bucks have unrealistic shot distribution, or they are taking a volume of shots where they wouldn't normally in real life, adjust those tendencies.

If the Bucks have ratings that are higher than they should (Like what they did by giving LeBron and Westbrook B+ on mid range when both of them shoot a very poor percentage from those areas), adjust the players back to realistic ratings in those areas.

Just some ideas for you.

[Vedreanu]

Milwaukee still wins routinely, but the difference is now the game has about 140-150 points in total
take a look at this last game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8K84Sny6i0

Here are SOME STATS from the mentioned game:
(I counted 15 clear midshots for MIA and 10 for MIL
15/50 (30%) mid range shots for MIA
10/49 (20%) mid range shot for MIL)

[Vedreanu]

I wont bother you much anymore - I just simmed another match, this was an EPIC!

This short video will sum it up pretty nicely (0:59)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WmpFypVUSo


So, from +23 to -13 in about 10 minutes. It was disgusting to watch.
- That was 44th test match between MIL and MIA that I simmed
- the score now is 43-1 for Milwaukee

KEY STATS:
mid range shots for Miami 3/20
mid range shots for Milwaukee 9/12

Its hard to say how many of those were open shots, but hey, thats just some big ass discrepancy
I will study REAL NBA mid range data for MIA and MIL players to determine whether such difference in NBA 2K ratings is justified!


Anyway, I dont have the will to try anything else after this "miracle" comeback.
Seems like no matter what, Bucks must win at home, according to NBA 2K engine.


At the end, let me just embrace the moment while remembering the only glitch in the matrix, that one win for the Miami.
here are the last seconds of that match:

https://youtu.be/BtqmnvheuUk?t=12368

[sticky-fingers]

you should read that : viewtopic.php?f=236&t=106371&start=25

[Vedreanu]

you should read that : viewtopic.php?f=236&t=106371&start=25

Interesting topic. Intagibles seem to be the golden grale, but after googling it a lot, I still dont have a strong grasp what they actually do.

I tried messing with them, though, I lowered INT for all players in MIA and MIL roster to 80 fixed for this game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_H960mFIXk&t=76s

And this happened:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6nQJrK2c6c&t=102s



After 31 consecutive losses!!

Only a coincidence?? I seriosly doubt it.
Unfortunately, I was stupid enough to implement several other new things in that game: PR attack for Miami, 100-100 run plays and also, that was another match played WITHOUT any badges!!


Btw, it makes no sense to me that messing with INTANGIBLES had that effect, because the nett effect of lowering INT for all players to 80 had been more detrimental to Miami lineup than to Milwaukee's:

= effect on MIL roster (8 best players): +8 /// -3 (start5)
= effect on MIA roster (8 best): -36 /// -58 (start5)!!?!?!??!



Can someone please talk about intangibles?

I found that video from 2k Labs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=266a95bMZhY

but it seem damn unconvincing. Why would anyone give a name Intangibles to something that has the effect of CLUTCH, which is a widely konw termn in basketball world?

[Dee4Three]

It's strange, because no matter where you look, tmo definitive answer on intangibles exists.

Some believe it impacts clutch factor (the ability to take over)

Some believe it's used for 2K to tweak overalls (with no true functionality otherwise)

Some believe its tied into a players ability to impact a game OVERALL.

I honestly noticed no difference with it on 2K17 if I had a player at 90 on it compared to say.... 60.

Mess with it a bit more and let us know if you find anything out.

Note: In 2017, someone claimed to have completed this test, and concluded its tied into clutch factor...

" being clutch. We shot over 30% higher at the buzzer or the last 5 seconds of a close game with 99 compared to 25.

Check out similar tests at www.nba2klab.com and follow us on Twitter for exclusive stuff that doesn't make the site."

Take that how you will, maybe run your own tests. Apparently they used the same player for the tests. And, that was back in 2017, even if it was right at that time, who says the intangibles functionality has not changed since?

[Vedreanu]

It's strange, because no matter where you look, tmo definitive answer on intangibles exists.

Some believe it impacts clutch factor (the ability to take over)

Some believe it's used for 2K to tweak overalls (with no true functionality otherwise)

Some believe its tied into a players ability to impact a game OVERALL.

I honestly noticed no difference with it on 2K17 if I had a player at 90 on it compared to say.... 60.

Mess with it a bit more and let us know if you find anything out.

Yes, I will try to test some assumptions I have. To me, the most plausible explanation of tangibles was the one it determines how good a player behaves OFF the ball.
But, then again, you have Igoudala with 25 INT skill, which makes no sense

One guy even suggested those might influence the "luck" factor, or how often shots would "luckily" go in.
Im gonna pay attention to that for sure.


Btw, also I have to remark yet another thing:

The VERY NEXT test game I let MIL and MIA play, I did it with official rosters, with all the freaking badges applied, with original intangibles etc...
I even havent nerfed Giannis' stat!!

The only thing I kept was P&R + shooting at will offense for Miami plus slightly remastered Sliders.
I also kept 100 run plays, 30 zone, 30 performance lineup, and 11 bench for both... and deactivated Fatigue.


And this happened:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJHfSCU_Tac


Having in mind Heat was 1-43 with similar sliders-non related settings up till that game...
P&R pops in as a strong suspect for the sudden "outburst" of wins.

Cant be just pure luck, cause it like hitting a bloody lottery.

[Dee4Three]

I mean, maybe they tie into momentum somehow? Which is clearly part of the games but not advertised?

Let us know what you find out.

[Vedreanu]

Well, I tried isolating many factors. Of course, I have a very limited and pretty unscientific sample, but its more of a guessing job for the obvious reasons. My wife already thinks I completely lost my mind while observing what I am wasting my life on during the last week...

So far, tangibles and PR offense/100 plays are the the biggest suspects!

Also, another thing is pretty obvious: letting those bastards play without the assist of holy badges makes the field a lot more tight, which i pretty logical. No all the crazy Ginanis the Greek Freak stuff all over the place. He actually has to work to put 20 pts!
But also, some other useful badges are eliminated that way, might be fun playing with them.


Btw, sticky-fingers pointed me at that topic for community rosters but for NBA 2K18. Is there such thing for this version of the game?

I must admit I dont manage myself around the forum/subforums pretty well

[Dee4Three]

However, I just read this article (interview with Mike Wang) which is about 2K20

https://ca.nba.com/news/nba-2k20-gamepl ... wacioibe4f

Mentions the reasoning for the heavy emphasis on badges this time around (steering away from stats/analytics for that part in order to achieve more authenticity on the court for players that do things that dont show up on the stat sheets), and he mentioned Jokic and how hard it is to make him in games because of his playstyle (and he even uses the word intangibles)

Now, he doesn't reference the intangible rating specifically, so that still doesnt give is an answer to exactly how the rating impacts the on court experience.

[Dee4Three]

Well, I tried isolating many factors. Of course, I have a very limited and pretty unscientific sample, but its more of a guessing job for the obvious reasons. My wife already thinks I completely lost my mind while observing what I am wasting my life on during the last week...

So far, tangibles and PR offense/100 plays are the the biggest suspects!

Also, another thing is pretty obvious: letting those bastards play without the assist of holy badges makes the field a lot more tight, which i pretty logical. No all the crazy Ginanis the Greek Freak stuff all over the place. He actually has to work to put 20 pts!
But also, some other useful badges are eliminated that way, might be fun playing with them.


Btw, sticky-fingers pointed me at that topic for community rosters but for NBA 2K18. Is there such thing for this version of the game?

I must admit I dont manage myself around the forum/subforums pretty well

I am using DEST TEAM roster for the MyLeague my brother and I have going. It has all the updated transactions, and some great signature shot edits.

For example, Russell Westrbooks shooting form is spot on with his edits, you can see that signature shot and others on my youtube channel if you look at some of my recent gameplay videos.

I had to mess with the rotations of the teams a bit, as often times only 8 players were active and guys like Melli who plays in real life had 0 minutes. But it was worth it for me to use the roster for authenticity purposes.

I had to change Zions height as well, they had him at 6'5" as opposed to 6'6".

It's the top roster when you go into the roster download section so you really cant miss it. Worth a try.

[Vedreanu]

Yeah, I've read that article just today (or was it yesterday )

I understand his point around savage use of badges, thats why I am pretty reluctant to build my simulation word around eliminating them totally...
But...

I strongly believe some badges (or maybe even most) make more damage than use to the system and make strong teams play even stronger, which Milwaukee - Miami example shows pretty nice.

Ok, I am probably the only one in the world that is not even playing the game nor is interested in it whatsoever
A friend asked me the other day - whats wrong with you, man, if you tend towards realistic outcomes distribution, why not watching REAL NBA instead ?

Maybe these badges do the good job for the PLAYING experience, which is why 99.99% of people buy this product. To play it, not to bloody watch it

[Dee4Three]

Honestly, you may want to look around at some of the other feedback on the new heavy emphasis on badges, it's not as big of a hit as you think.

Some people think that a lot of badges are completely overpowering, and the emphasis needs to be a better balance between ratings/tendencies and badges.

[Dee4Three]

Also, sorry for the double post. But you can see the Westbrook shot from DEST Teams roster in this highlight video, it looks awesome. He did animation blending and changed it completely. You can see it at 6:24

phpBB [video]

Some other great signature edits exist throughout the roster. And I am someone who is super picky about signature shots, and spent countless ours to get them right (Watched a lot of video) for my 2K17 rosters.

[Vedreanu]

Where can such feedback be seen, other than in the vastness of Google universe?

I personally dont like clutch badge, for instance. Why would someone shoot better than the other guy when going gets tough? Sure, some player in reality shoot better, the others shoot like crap in clutch time, like Carmelo Anthony if I havent mixed him up with someone else...
But they shoot better for a reason, like shot IQ, overall shooting PCT etc. Who know if there even is a clutch factor as a scientific truth...

Also, there is a badge that makes you shoot better just because you've hit your first shot. I mean, really...
Antetokounmpo has like 60 of such badges.

I understand they have to make things realistic, big scorers have to score big even in virtual gaming world, somehow... Its damn hard to get them to such numbers only on the base of pure probabilistic model, I get that!
But most of that just is craazy!


Take a look at this channel, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/user/rtm23lb/videos


Try finding matches from Lakers or Bucks that they have lost. Good luck with that!

[Dee4Three]

Where can such feedback be seen, other than in the vastness of Google universe?

I personally dont like clutch badge, for instance. Why would someone shoot better than the other guy when going gets tough? Sure, some player in reality shoot better, the others shoot like crap in clutch time, like Carmelo Anthony if I havent mixed him up with someone else...
But they shoot better for a reason, like shot IQ, overall shooting PCT etc. Who know if there even is a clutch factor as a scientific truth...

Also, there is a badge that makes you shoot better just because you've hit your first shot. I mean, really...
Antetokounmpo has like 60 of such badges.

I understand they have to make things realistic, big scorers have to score big even in virtual gaming world, somehow... Its damn hard to get them to such numbers only on the base of pure probabilistic model, I get that!
But most of that just is craazy!


Take a look at this channel, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/user/rtm23lb/videos


Try finding matches from Lakers or Bucks that they have lost. Good luck with that!

If you look at some of the Operation Sports threads, you will find people who dont like the heavy emphasis on badges.

We also talked about it on the NLVC podcast, and touched on it on one of the NLSC podcasts.

And some people have made youtube videos about it.

But yeah, with most big impact gameplay changes, you will have people who are frustrated... and that's understandable. I just feel that the gripes about the heavier emphasis on badges have been a little louder.

Either way, I am expecting them to go the same route for 2K21.

[Vedreanu]

Ok, so yesterday/today I have had and experiment that could turn to be a good test for INTANGIBLES.
At least I hope.

The test is consisted of repeating the game between MEMPHIS and ATLANTA
These are the preconditions/fixed parameters of the test:

- Memphis and Atlanta are using THE SAME Bucks players with the same stats!
- the rosters are consisted only of Bucks players, others have been sent to free agency. Only injured ones remained
- ALL BADGES have been removed!
- Memphis players were set to 99 INT value
- Atlanta players were set o 25 INT value

- all players had 48 mins allocated
- injuries off
- fatigue off
- fouls expulsion off

- offensive and defensive consistency were set to 0 in attempt to maximally extrapolate heat/cold influence on players behaviour-scoring
- other sliders remained as in SLIDERS 3.0

- both teams had COACHES with exact same attributes, badges etc! The same applied for ASSISTANT COACHES!
- coaching points of EMPHASYS were all set to NO PREFERENCE

- help defense 50
- run plays 0
- bench 5
- lineup performance 0
- others all 50

- player specific PLAYS settings wer set to NONE in order to see how players behaved when reduced to basic freelance game
- FREELANCE is static - no repeat
- both teams had the same freelance options chosen (three of them), the preset ones
- both teams used BUCKS PLAYBOOK, not that it should matter

- ACE was off
- def. and off. playcalling AUTO
- system PROFICIENCY was "pace and space" (3,5* both)

This is 1st test game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwY0CfzRTGo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl-ntY5XIZM


The data from the game:
CLUTCH SHOTS (last 5secs)
MEM 6/24 (3/15-3p), 25%
ATL 2/17 (0/8-3p), 12%

OPEN SHOTS***
MEM 8/17 (7/15-3p)
ATL 4/9 (4/8-3p)

***Only open shots that were created by movement of off-ball player, or a pass which was preceeded by a sudden burst of speed or move around the block (remember-freelance attacks are being used!), a specific movement through the court or movement throught the block(s);
Passes to the paint and transition open shots are not taken into consideration!


Also, some hard stats at 1:46 before the end of 3rd quarter (had go out at that point)
MEM 64 possesions = 90 corrected for 48 minutes
ATL 63 possesion

MEM 30 threepoint shots
ATL 18 threes

MEM 25 two pointers
ATL 42 two pointers

ASIST 19-17 MEM

TIME OF POSS
MEM 18:29
ATL 15:43

90 POSS (ponderated)

The last one is pretty strange!?


NOTES AND OBSERVATIONS:
1) Memphis was at home court, which is rated as C+. I couldnt find anything on google about home court advantage factoring, but there is certainly SOME advantage related to it.
2) COACH FACTOR UNKNOWN - Atlanta had significantly more open shots in the 3rd quarter, they totally obstructed off-ball movement and creation of MEMPHIS's attack! Totally opposite of what was seen in the 1st half!
-At the same time, in the 3rd quarter, ATLANTA played with a pretty noticeable uptempo, they almost had none clutch shots in the 3rd quarter.
3) Things changed in the 4th quarter when MEMPHIS started to play more like in the first half...


This might be big problems here: coach and home court advantage.

As I stated in preconditions section - coaches were set to IDENTICAL settings, attributes and preferences. So I really cant comprehend where from did that sudden boost of quality play come into ATLANTA at the start of 3rd quarter (they were 19 down at half!!!)
ACE was off, which makes it even more illogical and mysterious to me!

And homecourt advantage might be the hardest unknown parameter to get a grasp of.


Anyone with any ideas/cognition about these two elements (coach and homecourt effect)?

[Vedreanu]

Another match's stats (76-89 ATL wins - now 3-2 is the total score for Memphis - team with 99 INT which is also at home court!)
it was -30 at one point in favour of Atlanta (INT 25)!

CLUTCH (5s)
MEM 4/19 (2/11) TOTAL2gms: 10/43 (5/26) 23%
ATL 2/15 (2/8) TOTAL2gms: 4/32 (2/16) 13%

OPEN SHOTS through creation
MEM 6/10 (5/9) TOTAL2gms: 14/27 (12/24) 25% of all points scored (40/159)
ATL 6/8 (4/6) TOTAL2gms: 10/17 (8/14) 16% of all points scored (28/173)

OPEN SH - ALL
MEM 9/13 (8/12)
ATL 10/17 (6/13)

HARD FACTS
20-13 TO
8-17 OFREB
22-17 ASIST
67-82 FG (42% both)
29-27 3P shots
38-55 2P shots
8-20 FAST BREAK
24:45 - 23:15
85 - 85 POSS

[KendallGang]

Another match's stats (76-89 ATL wins - now 3-2 is the total score for Memphis - team with 99 INT which is also at home court!)
it was -30 at one point in favour of Atlanta (INT 25)!

CLUTCH (5s)
MEM 4/19 (2/11) TOTAL2gms: 10/43 (5/26) 23%
ATL 2/15 (2/8) TOTAL2gms: 4/32 (2/16) 13%

OPEN SHOTS through creation
MEM 6/10 (5/9) TOTAL2gms: 14/27 (12/24) 25% of all points scored (40/159)
ATL 6/8 (4/6) TOTAL2gms: 10/17 (8/14) 16% of all points scored (28/173)

OPEN SH - ALL
MEM 9/13 (8/12)
ATL 10/17 (6/13)

HARD FACTS
20-13 TO
8-17 OFREB
22-17 ASIST
67-82 FG (42% both)
29-27 3P shots
38-55 2P shots
8-20 FAST BREAK
24:45 - 23:15
85 - 85 POSS

You are not alone I soley watch CPU vs CPU. I started my MyLeague months ago, so i'm changing sliders every week trying to find a good set. I've used my own and plenty of sets of OP. Right now I am using Shady Mike's hybrid sliders.

[sticky-fingers]

phpBB [video]

Coach sliders are a game changer since 2K18.
And look what i've found in coach's menu, using limnono.